44 replies to this topic

[Mandela]

Mandela has received information that on Sunday 28th August 2011 a major beadbi took place during a wedding in the main Darbar Sahib upstairs. The sangat during the wedding managed to take chairs into the Darbar Sahib and sat on them during the wedding. More than 10 chairs where present after the wedding. Mandela was informed by a local sangat member, Mandela made his way to the Gudwara and saw with his own eyes. Mandela tried to take photos on his phone but was confronted by angry members of the girls side.

Mandela then informed the vice president Amrik Sahota and trustee Gurinder Joshan, they shrugged their shoulders and seemed not to care. Mandela phoned a friend to take pictures of where the chairs placed during the wedding. Mandela feels this is such a disrespectful act against Guru Granth Sahib Ji, this is not the first time this has happened. In the downstairs Darbar Sahib Mandela has seen with his own eyes benches have been placed at the back for people to sit on, these have been removed on countless times by local sangat.

Mandela feels during the last few months we have seen an increase of beadbi cases in our very on Gudwaras and we must take a stand against these committees which allow it to happen.

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[MentalSingh]

These were probably for people who struggle to sit on the floor due to some disability such as old people, disabled people etc. don't blow it out of proportion.

[Southall Youth]

Every Gurdwara should follow the example of both our local Gurdwareh - Singh Sabha Southall - we have a lowered floor at the back where wheel chairs,chairs can be placed there as when u sit down you are on the level of the floor in front of you

[Mandela]

These were probably for people who struggle to sit on the floor due to some disability such as old people, disabled people etc. don't blow it out of proportion.

Mandela says ohhhhh its okay for people to sit on chairs in Guru Sahibs court huh, if people like you had your way you would put benches like they have in churches in Guru Sahibs house. Mandela feels you really are a mental singh.

[Daasakedaas]

Mandela says ohhhhh its okay for people to sit on chairs in Guru Sahibs court huh, if people like you had your way you would put benches like they have in churches in Guru Sahibs house. Mandela feels you really are a mental singh.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Wahgeuru Ji KI Fateh

I think we have to use a little bit of that grey matter in our heads here. In terms of the law if we did not provide chairs for disabled of people with physical medical conditions then they could file a case against the Gurdwara. I am not sure whether the Disabilities Act covers this??

I am not for the idea of chairs in the divan or tables in the langar halls myself but if you want to do something positive then make sure that those facilities are only provided to those who genuinely need them.

By the way you might like to check out the Singh Sabha Gurdwara in Peterborough too.!! I recently attended a wedding there. If you go there take time to check out the Sach Khand. On the left hand bed as you go in you will find Maharaj Saroop alongside SGGS english translation and pothis. Another thing I noticed whilst visiting was that the Head Granthi is Blind (so how can he be HG when he can't read) and when he does Kirtan he forgets and mixes up shabads. He doesn't do any worth while parchar and the committee reject to recognise Akaal Takht hukumnamas about mixed marriages amongst others. There is a mixed wedding coming up on Sat 24 Sep. I
n the Langar hall they have got chairs and tables and pangats. Most of the able bodied youth sit on the tables and chairs. there are copies of Des Pardes lying around and people often sit there reading them whilst the Divan is in progress.

[MentalSingh]

The lowering of the floor is a great idea. Not seen that before at a Gurdwara.

Mandela i think you need to relax. No one is suggesting that benches should be installed at the Gurdwara but we need to consider how we can accommodate people who are not able to sit on the floor but want to pay their respects. The alternative of lowering the floor is a good idea and maybe you should go and suggest it as a possible solution.

[Mandela]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Wahgeuru Ji KI Fateh

I think we have to use a little bit of that grey matter in our heads here. In terms of the law if we did not provide chairs for disabled of people with physical medical conditions then they could file a case against the Gurdwara. I am not sure whether the Disabilities Act covers this??

I am not for the idea of chairs in the divan or tables in the langar halls myself but if you want to do something positive then make sure that those facilities are only provided to those who genuinely need them.

By the way you might like to check out the Singh Sabha Gurdwara in Peterborough too.!! I recently attended a wedding there. If you go there take time to check out the Sach Khand. On the left hand bed as you go in you will find Maharaj Saroop alongside SGGS english translation and pothis. Another thing I noticed whilst visiting was that the Head Granthi is Blind (so how can he be HG when he can't read) and when he does Kirtan he forgets and mixes up shabads. He doesn't do any worth while parchar and the committee reject to recognise Akaal Takht hukumnamas about mixed marriages amongst others. There is a mixed wedding coming up on Sat 24 Sep. I
n the Langar hall they have got chairs and tables and pangats. Most of the able bodied youth sit on the tables and chairs. there are copies of Des Pardes lying around and people often sit there reading them whilst the Divan is in progress.

Mandela agrees with sangat who may have problems but must we forget that was the main argument for tables and chairs in the langar hall. Mandela feels people cannot see the slow dilute of Sikhi values in the Gudwaras, we must go back to Guru Gobind Singh Ji's times and see if he allowed chairs in his court?

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Mandela is sure in the times of the Guru's and after that disabled people still used to sit on the floor along with every other member of the sangat. Once a precedent is set then the more "modern" Sikh will take full advantage of the situation.

Mandela challenges mental singh and any other poster who thinks it is ok for chairs in Darbar Sahib, Mandela wants you to use any Gurbani references or any Sikh scholar to prove their point.

[Hazoor]

My local Gurdwara does not allow chairs but have a separate room with a window looking into the main hall for anyone who can't sit on the floor. This Gurdwara strictly does not allow seating in Diwan halls which I think also applies to wheel chairs but can't confirm that. The idea of lowering the floor sounds fantastic and more inclusive compared to a separate room.

[Gurbar Akaal]

Why not address the root of the issue. Majority of our community are not disabled, and it is unlikely that we will get up to 10 disabled people attending the Gurdwara, these people who used chairs are most likely overweight, lazy and/or ignorant of the issue.

The Gurdwara as a central place of the community should be addressing issues that affect our people.

Health issues such as Diabeties, High Cholesterol and Heart Problems are common with our community, advice should be provided to the Sangat on how to manage weight and how to lose weight. Excercise classes should be set up to encourage people to be health, if the body is fat then it shows that the person is undisciplined and cannot control his desire for over indulging in food. If the person cannot control his own body senses, how is he even meant to begin controling his mind. Every Sikh should engage in some kind of physical excercise in order to maintain the body temple.

The Langar at the Gurdwara should be made more healthy, it is guarenteed that the regular Sangat will partake in Langar, so an unhealthy Langar will only add towards their bad health.

If people were in good health, with good advice availiable to them then the chairs wouldnt even come into the equation. Kattarpunna never works in any situation, by offering a solution to their problems you ca n win people over.

[Into the Light]

If either the elderly or severely disabled require a chair then i personally don't have a problem...provided they are either very old or severely disabled.

Maybe someone needs to police the use of chairs to ensure only those that actually require the use of chairs, use them.