26 replies to this topic

[singh1986]

So basically I been noticing the past couple of days that Sangat TV have been promoting/supporting the idea of Bhagat Ravidas being a Guru etc...

So the first question I'd like to ask is whether Sangat TV considers itself a "Sikh Channel" after all in the Sikh Rehit Maryada we believe in 10 Guru's and thats it! So is Sangat TV now moving in a direction that it can no longer call itself a Sikh Channel?!

Secondly I was actually watching one of the programmes where a very well respected individual Mohinderpal Singh stated the Ravidas community should not separate bani and form a new panth... and yet later on he goes on to say its important to have our own Nagar Kirtans, Gurdwaray etc so our voice is heard! Is that not a contradiction?

I think its very unfortunate in regards to the direction Sangat TV are going! Absolutely every community needs to be represented HOWEVER by continuing to call Bhagat Ravidas Guru...they are outside the edicts of Sikhi... in my opinion.

Its not like calling Bhagat Ravidas a bhagat is some sort of insult or demeaning!... I don't understand what the Ravidas communities opposition is? If they claim its some sort caste discrimination... its not like other "castes" are calling for other bhagats or sants to be called a Guru... furthermore its becoming apparent that in time the Ravidas community is moving further away from the Khalsa panth, just watching their programmes/speechs other than Monhinerpal Singh there is no other Kesh-dhari let alone Amrit-dhari

Its just very disturbing/unfortunate that Sangat TV is allowing this to be promoted under its banner! They might aswell indulge Naamdharis and Radhoswamis whilst their at it!

[NamoSarab]

It's ridiculous what Sangat TV get away with. No one will stop them. People on this forum talk about it, agree it's wrong, but when the question is asked about what to do, you could hear a pin drop.

[Jujar Singh]

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[SinghWarrior]

Practices of Ravidassia community may seem weird to "mainstream" Sikhs, but Ravidassia community has been heavily ostracised and treated as "outcastes" by mainstream Sikhs in previous generations. Hence, their desire to separate and build their own religion. This has been promoted by RSS to weaken Sikhs. Actually, what the elders and Sangat TV are doing is good. We need to build community relations, show them that they are our brothers and sisters, and re-integrate them into the mainstream Sikh fold. It will take time, but we don't want to be in a position where, due to caste differences pursued by Punjabis in India and, to some extent, in UK in elder generations, we break these people off from Sikhi completely.

People won't like this post. I'll probably be vilified, but we need to take a long-term view and not fall for the tricks the Panth Dushts are trying to inflict on us.

[Into the Light]

Practices of Ravidassia community may seem weird to "mainstream" Sikhs, but Ravidassia community has been heavily ostracised and treated as "outcastes" by mainstream Sikhs in previous generations. Hence, their desire to separate and build their own religion. This has been promoted by RSS to weaken Sikhs. Actually, what the elders and Sangat TV are doing is good. We need to build community relations, show them that they are our brothers and sisters, and re-integrate them into the mainstream Sikh fold. It will take time, but we don't want to be in a position where, due to caste differences pursued by Punjabis in India and, to some extent, in UK in elder generations, we break these people off from Sikhi completely.

People won't like this post. I'll probably be vilified, but we need to take a long-term view and not fall for the tricks the Panth Dushts are trying to inflict on us.

I completely agree with SinghWarrior here!!!

[simran345]

WJKK WJKF
I also agree with Singhwarrior.
Its the higher caste sikhs that always used to belittle them, and not allow them equal rights. My grandparents used to tell me lots of stories of how they were looked down upon, and not even eat from the same household. Thus the reason why they wanting to go their own way. Its great sangat tv are showing them on their channel. thats the only way to integrate them otherwise lose them.

[rinku_sikh]

Yes integration is a good thing however there is a distinction between mainstream Sikhs and Ravidassia Sikhs.

Sangat TV have advertised all programmes as relating to "Guru Ravidass" and not "Bhagat Ravidass". There is a difference in beliefs and you need to be one way or the other. The jakara that's been on these channels from the "Guru Ravidass Gurdwara's "is noticeablly different "Bole So Nibhai, Siri Guru Ravidass Ki Jai".

The fact of the matter is how can you integrate when you have different beliefs?

Either you believe in Bhagat Ravidass as a "Guru" or you don't. In mainstream Sikhi we don't.

[simran345]

@rinku_sikh, yes this is where people like me get confused as to what to call them, Bhagat or Guru. I'm sure youngsters born in uk are in the same position aswell, because if i was to walk into a Ravidass gurdwara I would not know any different and think of as a mainstream gurdwara. ~Until one does their research, it is very confusing.

[rinku_sikh]

Sikh's believe's in 10 Guru's and Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as our everlasting Guru.

Now if you start showing programmes that are in conflict to this, will they also start showing Radhaswami and Naamdhari Programmes as they also believe in more than 10 Guru's?

My personal view is Sangat TV are out of order and really need to decide their position on this and not float around and confuse people as @simran345 mentioned. What is their stance on Sikhism? What do they believe in?

[SinghWarrior]

Yes integration is a good thing however there is a distinction between mainstream Sikhs and Ravidassia Sikhs.

Sangat TV have advertised all programmes as relating to "Guru Ravidass" and not "Bhagat Ravidass". There is a difference in beliefs and you need to be one way or the other. The jakara that's been on these channels from the "Guru Ravidass Gurdwara's "is noticeablly different "Bole So Nibhai, Siri Guru Ravidass Ki Jai".

The fact of the matter is how can you integrate when you have different beliefs?

Either you believe in Bhagat Ravidass as a "Guru" or you don't. In mainstream Sikhi we don't.

Agree that we are different. But they (the majority, excluding the minority who are trying to create a Ravidassia religion under RSS instruction/inspiration) still see themselves as Sikhs. Their Jakara is different but they still matha tek to Guru Granth Sahib Ji. They call Bhagat Ravidas Ji, Guru Ravidas Ji. Even amongst "mainstream", Sikhs there are differences.

If we follow your logic, AKJ, Damdami Taksaal, Nanaksar, Rara Sahib, Nihang Singhs have differences between them. Should we, in our own little group, reject these other groups as "not Sikhs" because, as you say, "The fact of the matter is how can you integrate when you have different beliefs?"