87 replies to this topic

[N30S1NGH]

I am opening up this thread to get [b]deep unbias analysis on- Relationship of buddha dal with damdami taksal during dharam yudh morcha[/b]. I was born in 1982 so i have no knowledge about the environment- co-ordination/cooperation between sikh jathebandiyas back then.

[b]This is not my opinion, this is what i have gathered so [/b]far from both sides from old threads on ss and on sa. I have no idea how much of its truth or false...

[quote]
There were few meetings of damdami taksal and buddha dal on dharam yudh morcha back in 1980's. Both sides had difference of opinions, meeting was failed to bring up any solid coperation/coordination efforts from both sides.

During 1980's, damdami taksal accuses buddha dal siding with gov't. Buddha dal accuses damdami taksal to occupy darbar sahib..hence refuse to provide assistance but willing to provide assistance if dharam yudh morcha was based from mehta chowk.

The real difference of opinion came between mehta and buddha dal after sant gyani gurbachan singh khalsa bhindranwale went to sachkhand where buddha dal backed Sant Gyani Mohan Singh as next jathedar (as he is nephew of baba santa singh ji). Bhramgyani Sant gyani mohan singh ji with bairaagi/tyaagi birthi stayed at bhindran where bhramgyani sant kartar singh ji bhindranwale went to mehta.

Both sides were accused of killing each other members- babbars (backed taksal-self edited-refuted) support killed buddha dal nihangs for drinking sukha and eating meat, and buddha dal nihangs accused of siding with gov't/police getting babars killed.

[/quote]

So what is the truth? Where is the truth?

Usually, as they say there are three parts to the truth. One is my version of truth. Second is your version of truth and third is actual truth which does not take any sides.

Please keep the discussion clean, its genuine effort to know the truth.

[NeverForget84dotcom]

[quote]Both sides were accused of killing each other members- babbars backed with taksal support killed buddha dal nihangs for drinking sukha and eating meat, and buddha dal nihangs accused of siding with gov't/police getting babars killed.[/quote]

Where did you get this info from? First time ive ever come across this.

[N30S1NGH]

It's common knowledge when you talk to elderly in punjab from both sides..not sure how much is truth? or all propaganda?

Truth must be told..we all know truth is sour, people with group or organization affiliations may not like it but someone who is researching the facts must put truth at first then anything else.

[SunSingh]

taksal is quite close to some nihang dals where chatka is practiced. it seems ridiculous that they would kill anyone for that reason. taksal, in typical samradic fashion, does not attempt to violently force their views on other sikhs.

[N30S1NGH]

yeah that's what i thought singh just seeking clarification on those stories..i can personally vouch for taksal both mehta and bhindran anyway but not sure about babars as there are many factions within them.

[NeverForget84dotcom]

You have any examples of

"[b]babbars backed with taksal support killed buddha dal nihangs for drinking sukha and eating meat, and buddha dal nihangs accused of siding with gov't/police getting babars killed.[/b]"

There were many other stories which went around such as Taksal & Babbars not agreeing with one another, so I dont see how the above quoted can be true.

[N30S1NGH]

No examples singh, this is what i heard from punjab...as i said this could be all propaganda or false for all we know..stuff i posted in quote its not my opinion or anything like that... The reason i posted stuff in quotes [b]so it could be refuted here by logical reasoning / by showing inconsistency or further clarified or refuted by someone who spent time with taksal or dal to present facts.[/b]

Sorry just to clarify the reason i posted this thread because so people can write overall anaylsis on relationship between budda dal and taksal during dharam yudh and also comment on stuff in quotes.

The only thing i can think of regarding budda dal relation with taksal .. i heard from nihang singh - sant jarnail singh bhindranwale had respect for nihang dals so much so that he used to send goats for chakta for dal even though he was vegetarian himself. But we also know baba santa singh didn't supported sant ji in dharam yudh morcha where sant ji himself stated that in the video.

So lets start with what we know regarding relationship between taksal and buddah dal by speeches, books, oral veechars of gurmukhs around that time etc etc???

[NeverForget84dotcom]

The reason I asked was that I've never heard it mentioned nor anything to back up such a claim. Theres a Sant Jarnail Singh video online in which Santji states all Nihang Dals, Sampardas, Kar Sewa groups, Taksals etc are backing the Dharam Yudh Morcha with the exception of Santa Singh's Budha Dal.

Some Nihang Singhs have said that the reason for Santa Singh not supporting the Morcha was that they wanted Santji to drop the Akalis from the agitations, and in result they will back the Morchas.

[N30S1NGH]

Thanks singh for your post..your last bit in the post was interesting, does make lot of sense from political angle as baba santa singh budda dal endorsed congress party during that time.

Version 1: [quote] Buddha dal accuses damdami taksal to occupy darbar sahib..hence refuse to provide assistance but willing to provide assistance if dharam yudh morcha was based from mehta chowk.[/quote]

Version 2: [quote][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Some Nihang Singhs have said that the reason for Santa Singh not supporting the Morcha was that they wanted Santji to drop the Akalis from the agitations, and in result they will back the Morchas. [/quote][/font][/color]

[gurudashere]

Everything I know regarding this topic is from oral sources from within Budda Dal.
There was no problem when Budda Dal recognised Baba Mohan Singh Ji as the successor to Baba Gurbachan at Bhindran. When differences arose between Baba Mohan Singh & Baba kartar Singh it was Budda Dal who advised them to split rather then infighting. It is common within Dal Panth for the Dal to split when it gets to big or when difference arise, when a pride of lions grows in number, for the sake of harmony they split. Budda Dal even donated the land at Mehta to Baba Kartar Singh Taksal, that land was previously owned by Budda Dal. Budda Dal Jathedar Baba Santa Singh advised the two groups to split and carry on with Sikhi parchar, he tied dastar on Baba Mohan Singh & donated land to Mehta. Historically Budda dal over saw all successions of jathedhari in other samparde & we called in to resolve any internal disputes.
Baba Gurbachan Singh himself grew up and was first initiated in Budda Dal. It is also said that when Baba Gurbachan Singh Ji was jathedar at Bhindran, he would take goats with him for jhatka whenever he visited Budda Dal. I didn't know Baba Jarnail Singh Ji also sent goats to Dal panth for jhatka.
In terms of taksal & Nihangs killing each other over shaheedi degh & jhatka I find this hard to believe as taksal study puratan Granths where it is clearly written mahraj allowed his fauj to carry out these practices with his full blessing. The Babbars on the other hand are a different story. Budda Dal have existed from the time their creation was uttered by a boon given by Guru Hargobind Sahib ji to Baba Budda Ji. Taksal was created by Guru Gobind Singh ji so there is a lot of respect and acknowledgement of the legitimacy of these two sampardas from one another. Budda dal do not recognise Akj in any shape or form, never have done & probably never will. The Babbars were forcing their 'views' & knowledge on 'correct' gurmat despite largely lacking the knowledge possessed by taksal singhs & Dal panth singhs, hence the killings over shaheedi degh & jhatka. Akj/Babbars only been about around say 50 years, Taksal & Nihangs were created directly by Guru Sahib themselves, the relationship between Taksal & Dal panth is inseparable.