what can you do if people find pride in their ancestry we say sikhi is our ancestry and take pride in that others have subsetted that.

The only solution to ending the caste system is by intermarrying some already have we have sikhs with mixed ancestors let them keep intermarrying, marry your kids inbetween yourself if you can't help being forced into a caste marriage.

Answers to your questions

1) although intercaste marriage is allowed people feel sikhi just opened a door of tolerance between castes, but the gurus and great sikhs only married into their own castes, plus political/social structures we have are still caste based and we do discriminate per caste still till today, we got to many backwards pendos who can't remember anything about sarbat da pala but remember something which is thousands of years old, plus they have invented there own caste system jatts and tarkhans were never on top, brahmins were then khatris. Harsh punishment was given to the hill chiefs over caste which resulted in a great war, if maharaj wanted caste he would have givien the hill chiefs there caste and he would still have all of his 4 sons plus with the hill chiefs he could have over thrown the mughals. People assert this otherness and otherism almost a racism and negative skewed perceptions per caste, it effects us the guys who don't even believe in caste we abstain from relations with guys who believe too much into it almost carving out our own category or caste. People assert a form of pride or betterment to the social status plus the friend social circles that opens.

2) the parents have right over the choice of marriage simply because money is involved a girl from a low poor caste can marry a rich caste and basically gold digg then you have guys looking for suggamamas with the high castes, the boys parents intervene because they don't want any slag just taking their son and their money, plus house. Even though we haven't established respect between our differences of ancestory which do time to time effect our behaviour such as paag style, punjabi words, body language even friend + family circles.

3) parents bringing you into this world have done something for you which you can never pay back, even if you are a gursikh you can do benti you can't force them into anything they are still authoratitve over you grand gursikhs have had hindu mothers and fathers didn't stop them from respecting their parents. Since as a gursikh you spend alot of time around your parents and they know you well if you live your sikhi that can be enough from the difference it does in your life to invite them into the path otherwise you should respect the position of your parents and the choice you have and they have the freedom over all.

4) Amritdharis are humans as well they get lustful and attractive all the tv of everyone doing the jiggy jiggy is applying social pressure, humans by nature are made to reproduce it's a basic instinct just like eating, but we have ceremonies that make the place and time right such as after wedlock placing all the economic factors into place so each one can't cheat on the other. If you read chattrianpakhian you get an idea why sleeping around commiting adultery is bad.

Sorry friend, in the name of amswering the questions raised in my post , we are revolvin in circles without getting to the root cause ,
weall follow those teachings of the gurus we find paletable according to to our mind set folliw and ignore those which are not liked by us
,the youths seeing our hypocrisy tend to go their own way , so what i meant to say is , follow the teachings of the Gurus in letter & spirit
[ not selectively ]only then will we set example for the next gen , if we are not ready to shed caste system , why blame the great /gurus?
are we teaching this to our kids ? thet why blame them for what they feel about us ?
Even our Gurus never forced their views on their children then why should we ? why do we want a 20 - 25 y o to behave like zombie in
front of parents , why he cannot reason his pov? why the parents should not listen to valid reason ?that is ridiculous , two wrongs do not
add to one right , parents and children both have to rethink their attitude, albeit in the light of Gurmat , that would only solve the problem
i noted my response to 6 month old thread only 'cause the issue is always relevent , else the involved persons may have found out the solution
already

please do not agonise if my words look harsh , only think over it

fateh
/

We also have alot of vilification going on in our minds here are some typical stereotypes formed to the point we see each other as different humans or of different religions and different values

typical jatt (zeemandhar/kisan)
http://www.comments2...r-Bhalla-13.jpg

typical tarkhan (ramgharia)
http://www.museumofl.../hunjanms01.jpg

typical papaa (khatri/kshaytria/aroras)
http://profile.ak.fb...656852293_n.jpg

Answers to your questions

1) although intercaste marriage is allowed people feel sikhi just opened a door of tolerance between castes, but the gurus and great sikhs only married into their own castes, plus political/social structures we have are still caste based and we do discriminate per caste still till today, we got to many backwards pendos who can't remember anything about sarbat da pala but remember something which is thousands of years old, plus they have invented there own caste system jatts and tarkhans were never on top, brahmins were then khatris. Harsh punishment was given to the hill chiefs over caste which resulted in a great war, if maharaj wanted caste he would have givien the hill chiefs there caste and he would still have all of his 4 sons plus with the hill chiefs he could have over thrown the mughals. People assert this otherness and otherism almost a racism and negative skewed perceptions per caste, it effects us the guys who don't even believe in caste we abstain from relations with guys who believe too much into it almost carving out our own category or caste. People assert a form of pride or betterment to the social status plus the friend social circles that opens.

2) the parents have right over the choice of marriage simply because money is involved a girl from a low poor caste can marry a rich caste and basically gold digg then you have guys looking for suggamamas with the high castes, the boys parents intervene because they don't want any slag just taking their son and their money, plus house. Even though we haven't established respect between our differences of ancestory which do time to time effect our behaviour such as paag style, punjabi words, body language even friend + family circles.

3) parents bringing you into this world have done something for you which you can never pay back, even if you are a gursikh you can do benti you can't force them into anything they are still authoratitve over you grand gursikhs have had hindu mothers and fathers didn't stop them from respecting their parents. Since as a gursikh you spend alot of time around your parents and they know you well if you live your sikhi that can be enough from the difference it does in your life to invite them into the path otherwise you should respect the position of your parents and the choice you have and they have the freedom over all.

4) Amritdharis are humans as well they get lustful and attractive all the tv of everyone doing the jiggy jiggy is applying social pressure, humans by nature are made to reproduce it's a basic instinct just like eating, but we have ceremonies that make the place and time right such as after wedlock placing all the economic factors into place so each one can't cheat on the other. If you read chattrianpakhian you get an idea why sleeping around commiting adultery is bad.

what a mammas boy
He didn't ask his mum before he slept with you

I have been reading the responses, all going away from the problem, only trying to show holier than thou attitude
why not address the problem and surfing around :-
1 Is intercast marriage is allowed in Sikh faith ? yes , why then parents oppose it ? that is the big question .

2 Is bride & groom's consent is compulsory in nupital matters ? yes according to rehat maryada the Granthi before starting the Anand karaj proceedingsasks both Bride & groom to bow their head befor SGGS if they agree to the relation only then he proceeds further - then why parents become adamant on their choice only even when the person going into marriage does not agrees to ?

3 If parents are not following the tenets of Sikhi , should the offsprings not ask them to be on the right path ?

4 Is premarital sex allowed in our faith ? No it is not , sex outside wedlock is one of the five taboos in our faith , then as dscribed in many posts
why many amritdhari youngs indulge in it, knowing that it is not supposed to be exercised ?

We need to find answers to these questions , please introspect , parents & the yuth both have to think on it , where everyone is going wrong
. and amend ourselves in the light of Gurbani

This is a joke thread, some of the insanse logic used here is laughable

Yes one action does not define your life, there are loads of brlliant singhs/singhnia who have come into sikhi frm a bad place!

Secondly your parents DO matter if you know that they have a caste problem why put your family through that....hint the answer is selfishness! Like they say probably your kids will do this to you why cant they marry a hindu/muslim etc

Thirdly, yes i agree sexual attraction is needed for a relationship but you dont need to have sex as a lot of the time its just kaam! Sounds like a lot of the posters in this thread are quite young and must watch a lot of bollywood!

Hi just wanted to know what's happened between you two as I'm in a similar position and its been 2 years his family has known about me and him and still won't accept it

Woah what you done! This is bad omg I have never known anyone who has had intercourse before marriage you lost your purity as a Sikh woman bad times. Having a relationship with a guy before marriage is bad enough but going the full way your only option is to marry him but if the guys family don't want you to marry him if they know as well you have done it then you lost. Il tell you that that guy didn't love you as what Sikh guy would have sex with a Sikh girl before marriage he should think if he had a sister and someone did that to her I guess he would like it. I'm sorry you are in such a situation I hope waheguru gives strenght to humanity on these type of issues

Sex implies consented rape is unconsented she said sex not rape, so she allowed it to happen to her, so we move on from that past and advise the future for her. As long as the guy didn't have sti it's okayish. Depends on your age if your asking for marriage assuming it is right and you want to marry it's up to you. Loads of Sikh guys do sleep with girls.

Hope you lot wore a condom or took the pill, next thing you want is a baby and not being married. Everyone always say they didn't intend to that is bs, it takes 2 to tango. Well if your parents didn't matter when you got jiggy why do they matter now? Forget what they say they must be living in the old days. The thing with all these questions like caste was mainly to do with the economic thing and shame was a big thing about it, hence why most of us were forst to migrate due to economic problems. Just marry him, the question you should be asking is how can you convince your parents for their blessing and the thing is, it is your life, you are grown up made a choice, the question can be reversed if they want a part in your future or not.

sexual relation is a natural part of being in ANY type of partnership. Its sexual instinct that leads to a partnership. TO not have sex is going against nature, and therefore these people should just have anand karaj first, but obviously coconut confused logic prevails!

Mate you can have a relationship without sex.