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Inder Singh

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  1. SGPC and akal takhat had taken this issue before Dal Khalsa.It is understood that objectionable letetr has been already removed.SGPC president has been informed about this.
  2. Spokesman editor is an excommunicated person from sikh panth. If you like him follow him out of panth. Do not tout him here. That rogue writes that Sikhs had only one Guru.He did not give gurgaddi to anyone. He also writes that SGGS was not compiled by Guru Arjan Dev ji. Our personal vichars are irrelevant. We discuss panthic matters here. This is what spokesman is all about. Read below 17 ਮਈ 2009 ਨੂੰ ਚੰਡੀਗੜ੍ਹ ਦੇ ਸੈਕਟਰ 46 ਦੇ ਗੁਰਦੁਆਰਾ ਸਾਹਿਬ ‘ਚ ਪ੍ਰਸਿੱਧ ਇਤਿਹਾਸਕਾਰ ਡਾ: ਹਰਜਿੰਦਰ ਸਿੰਘ ਦਿਲਗੀਰ ਦੇ ਸਤਿਕਾਰਯੋਗ ਮਾਤਾ ਬੀਬੀ ਜਗਤਾਰ ਕੌਰ ਜੀ, ਜੋ ਕਿ ਪਿਛਲੇ ਦਿਨੀਂ ਅਕਾਲ ਚਲਾਣਾ ਕਰ ਗਏ ਸਨ, ਦੇ ਨਮਿਤ ਰੱਖੇ ਗਏ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਸਮਾਗਮ ਦੇ ਮੰਚ ਤੋਂ ਸ. ਜੋਗਿੰਦਰ ਸਿੰਘ ਮੁੱਖ ਸੰਪਾਦਕ ਰੋਜ਼ਾਨਾ ਸਪੋਕਸਮੈਨ ਨੇ ਬੜੀ ਬੇਬਾਕੀ ਨਾਲ ਦਾਅਵਾ ਕੀਤਾ ਕਿ ‘‘ਬਾਬੇ ਨਾਨਕ ਨੇ ਆਪਣੇ ਹੱਥੀਂ ਕਿਸੇ ਨੂੰ ਗੁਰਗੱਦੀ ਨਹੀਂ ਸੀ ਦਿੱਤੀ ਕਿਉਂਕਿ ਉਹ ਅੱਗੇ ਗੱਦੀ ਚਲਾਉਣੀ ਹੀ ਨਹੀਂ ਸਨ ਚਾਹੁੰਦੇ।’’ ਸ੍ਰ: ਜੋਗਿੰਦਰ ਸਿੰਘ ਦੇ ਇਸ ਬਿਆਨ ਤੋਂ ਅੰਦਰਲਾ ਭਾਵ ਇਹ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਗੁਰੂ ਅੰਗਦ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਨੇ ਕੋਈ ਜਾਅਲਸਾਜੀ ਕਰਕੇ ਗੁਰੂ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਤੋਂ ਗੁਰਗੱਦੀ ਹਥਿਆ ਲਈ ਸੀ। ਬੇਸ਼ੱਕ ਇਹ ਲਾਈਨਾਂ ਬਹੁਤ ਹੀ ਦੁਖਦਾਈ ਹਨ ਕਿਉਂਕਿ ਇਹ ਦਿਨ ਨੂੰ ਰਾਤ ਕਹਿਣ ਵਰਗਾ ਕੁਫਰ ਹੈ ਅਤੇ ਕੁਫਰ ਹੁੰਦਾ ਹੀ ਦੁੱਖ ਦੇਣ ਵਾਲਾ ਹੈ। ਜਦੋਂ ਸਪੋਕਸਮੈਨ ਦੇ ਮੁੱਖ ਦਫ਼ਤਰ 19 ਸੈਕਟਰ ਵਿੱਚ ਇੱਕ ਮਾਸਕ ਇੱਕਠ ਨੂੰ ਸੰਬੋਧਨ ਕਰਦਿਆਂ ਉਨਾਂ ਬੜੇ ਹੀ ਜਜ਼ਬਾਤੀ ਰੋਹ ਵਿੱਚ ਕਿਹਾ ਸੀ ਕਿ ‘‘ਮੈਂ ਬਾਬੇ ਨਾਨਕ ਤੋਂ ਸਿਵਾ ਬਾਕੀ ਨੋਆਂ ਨੂੰ ਨਹੀਂ ਮੰਨਦਾ (ਭਾਵ ਬਾਕੀ ਨੌ ਗੁਰੂ ਸਹਿਬਾਨ ਨੂੰ ਗੁਰੂ ਨਹੀਂ ਮੰਨਦਾ)।’’ ਇਸ ਤੋਂ ਪਹਿਲੇ ਸਪੋਕਸਮੈਨ ਅਤੇ ਇਸਦੇ ਸੰਪਾਦਕ ਸ: ਜੋਗਿੰਦਰ ਸਿੰਘ ਲਈ ਮੇਰੇ ਹਿਰਦੇ ਦੀ ਜਮੀਨ ਬਹੁਤ ਹੀ ਪਵਿੱਤਰ ਸੀ। ਜਿਸ ਵਿੱਚ ਸ੍ਰ. ਜੋਗਿੰਦਰ ਸਿੰਘ ਵੱਲੋਂ ਸ਼ੱਕ ਦਾ ਬੀਜ ਅਚਨਚੇਤ ਹੀ ਸੁੱਟ ਦਿੱਤਾ ਗਿਆ। --- ਸ. ਜੋਗਿੰਦਰ ਸਿੰਘ ਜੀ ਨੇ ਗੁਰੂ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਅਤੇ ਨੌ ਗੁਰੂ ਸਾਹਿਬਾਨਾਂ ਵਿੱਚ ਇੱਕ ਵੱਡਾ ਬੰਨ ਮਾਰਦਿਆਂ ਹੋਇਆ ਸਾਨੂੰ ਉਲਟਾ ਸਵਾਲ ਕੀਤਾ ਕਿ ਤੁਹਾਡੇ ਕੋਲ ਨੌਆਂ ਗੁਰੂਆਂ ਦੀ ਹੋਂਦ ਦਾ ਕੀ ਸਬੂਤ ਹੈ। ਉਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਅਨੁਸਾਰ ਪਿਛਲੇ ਸਾਰੇ ਇਤਿਹਾਸਕ ਦਸਤਾਵੇਜ਼ ਗੁੱਮ ਹੋ ਚੁੱਕੇ ਹਨ। ਉਹ ਬੜੇ ਸਪੱਸ਼ਟ ਸ਼ਬਦਾਂ ਵਿੱਚ ਇਹ ਵੀ ਕਹਿੰਦੇ ਹਨ ਕਿ ਗੁਰੂ ਅਰਜਨ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਨੇ ਗੁਰੂ ਗੰ੍ਰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਦੀ ਸੰਪਾਦਨਾ ਨਹੀਂ ਕੀਤੀ। ਉਹ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਅਕਾਲ ਤਖਤ ਦੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਹਰਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਵਲੋਂ ਰੱਖੀ ਗਈ ਬੁਨਿਆਦ ਤੋਂ ਵੀ ਪੂਰੀ ਤਰ੍ਹਾਂ ਇਨਕਾਰੀ ਹਨ। ਇਸ ਤੋਂ ਇਲਾਵਾ ਜਾਣਕਾਰ ਸੂਤਰਾਂ ਅਨੁਸਾਰ ਉਹ ਗੁਰੂ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਸਿੰਘ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਵੱਲੋਂ ਖੰਡੇ ਦੀ ਪਾਹੁਲ ਛਕਾਉਣ ਦੇ ਪ੍ਰਕਰਨ ਨੂੰ ਵੀ ਪੂਰੀ ਤਰ੍ਹਾਂ ਰੱਦ ਕਰਦੇ ਹਨ।
  3. Two beers were compiled during Guru sahib's time called hazuri beer and patna beer. The years were 1696 and 1698. One of the beer , Patna beer, is available on the net. If you have any questions on Dasam granth post it in the section earmarked for the discussions for Dasam granth.Those questions would be as a seeker and not as a doubter. This thread is not for raising doubt on Dasam granth. This site accepts Dasam granth in toatality. We need to respect forum guidelines. Nihungs are the ones who were original dal khalsa and they were keepers of Dasam Granth.They have all banis in their beers.One need some study first before posing questions as it relates to our scritpure.
  4. Why should have it again? We cann't have these committees now and again.It has been decided once for all. Moreover this is not the point of discussion. That is exactly what we need - but the sad part is when our jathedars are chosen by anti-pathic leaders/people - they will not allow the true scholars to come forward into the debate forums. We need a committee of scholars set up - who know about the topic in order to come to a resolution and present that to akal takht without becoming personal. This is what SGPC and dhram parchar comittee should be doing - but unfortunatley it looks as thought they are being puppetted also by Badal! Who are these scholars who can analyse wrtings of our Guru. Tomorrow some deranged person will want SGGS to be analysed. This is not the topic of discussion. Authenticity of Dasam Granth is beyond question.Moderators should note that.This is against forum guidelines.People are repeating same thing what those people seem to be saying in Coventry meeting.
  5. The picture given by panthic weekly has nothing to do with RSS.It shows meeting of Darshan Ragi with Rrajiv's agent Shushil Muni. That time he was jathedar of akal takhat. Presence of baba thakar singh ji indicates nothing.It seems to be an open meeting. The issue here is role of anti panthic groups of UK who are supporting heretic ragi Darshan by excuses. If they were not in the meeting but their names were there in the ad. They are right when they say those who do not accept Dasam granth in totality are not sikhs. Sikhism accepts Dasam granth in toatality. There is no pick and choose.
  6. There are anti sikh moles whose job is to hijack the thread. Suffice to say that parkash of Dasam garnth is not issue. SGGS is Guru of sikhs and Dasam Granth , i repeat whole, is second most scared scripture of sikhs. Those who doubt whole of dasam granth are violating guidelines of this site and sikh rehat maryada.
  7. Some verses from dasam bani ਭਜੋਂ ਸੁ ਏਕ ਨਾਮਯੰ ॥ ਜੁ ਕਾਮ ਸਰਬ ਠਾਮਯੰ ॥ I recite only the Name of the Lord, which is useful at all places. (Bachittar Natak) ਨ ਧਿਆਨ ਆਨ ਕੋ ਧਰੋਂ ॥ ਨ ਨਾਮ ਆਨ ਉਚਰੋਂ ॥38॥ I do not meditate on anyone else, nor do I repeat the Name of anyone else. ||38|| (Bachittar Natak) ਚਰਨ ਸਰਨ ਜਿਹ ਬਸਤ ਭਵਾਨੀ ॥ The goddess Durga takes refuge at the feet of Eternal and abides there. Dasam Granth sahib * ਰਾਮ ਰਹੀਮ ਉਬਾਰ ਨ ਸਕਹੈ ਜਾਕਰ ਨਾਮ ਰਟੈ ਹੈ॥ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਬਿਸ਼ਨ ਰੁਦ੍ਰ ਸੂਰਹ ਸਸਿ ਤੇ ਬਸਿ ਕਾਲ ਸਭੈ ਹੈ ॥੧ (ਸ. ਹਜਾਰੇ) * Ram and Rahim whose names you are uttering cant save you. Brahma, Vishnu Shiva, Sun and Moon, all are subject to the power of Death.1. Dasam granth sahib * ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਔ ਬਿਸਨ ਜਪੇ ਤੁਹਿ ਕੋਟਿਕ ਰਾਮ ਰਹੀਮ ਭਲੀ ਬਿਧਿ ਧਿਆਯੋ ॥ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਜਪਿਓ ਅਰੁ ਸੰਭੁ ਥਪਿਓ ਤਿਹ ਤੇ ਤੁਹਿ ਕੋ ਕਿਨਹੂੰ ਨ ਬਚਾਯੋ ॥ ……..ਤੋਹਿ ਬਚਾਇ ਸਕੈ ਕਹੁ ਕੈਸੇ ਕੈ ਆਪਨ ਘਾਵ ਬਚਾਇ ਨ ਐਹੈ ॥ ਕੋਪ ਕਰਾਲ ਕੀ ਪਾਵਕ ਕੁੰਡ ਮੈ ਆਪ ਟੰਗਿਓ ਤਿਮ ਤੋਹਿ ਟੰਗੈਹੈ ॥ * Thou hast meditated on millions of Krishnas, Vishnus, Ramas and Rahims. Thou hast recited the name of Brahma and established Shivalingam, even then none could save thee……. They cannot save themselves from the blow of death, how can they protect thee? They are all hanging in the blazing fire of anger, therefore they will cause thy hanging similarly. Dasam granth sahib ਜਿਨਿ ਜਿਨਿ ਤਨਿਕ ਸਿਧ ਕੋ ਪਾਯੋ ॥ ਤਿਨਿ ਤਿਨਿ ਅਪਨਾ ਰਾਹੁ ਚਲਾਯੋ ॥ जिनि जिनि तनिक सिध को पायो ॥ तिनि तिनि अपना राहु चलायो ॥ Whosoever attained a little spiritual power, he started his own ptah. ਪਰਮੇਸਰ ਨ ਕਿਨਹੂੰ ਪਹਿਚਾਨਾ ॥ ਮਮ ਉਚਾਰਿ ਤੇ ਭਯੋ ਦਿਵਾਨਾ ॥੧੬॥ परमेसर न किनहूं पहिचाना ॥ मम उचारि ते भयो दिवाना ॥१६॥ None could comprehend the Lord, but instead became mad with `I-ness`.16. ਪਰਮ ਤੱਤ ਕਿਨਹੂੰ ਨ ਪਛਾਨਾ ॥ ਆਪ ਆਪ ਭੀਤਰਿ ਉਰਝਾਨਾ ॥ परम त्त किनहूं न पछाना ॥ आप आप भीतरि उरझाना ॥ Nobody recognized the Supreme Essence, but was entangled within himself. ਤਬ ਜੇ ਜੇ ਰਿਖਿ ਰਾਜ ਬਨਾਏ ॥ ਤਿਨ ਆਪਨ ਪੁਨ ਸਿੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਚਲਾਏ ॥੧੭॥ तब जे जे रिखि राज बनाए ॥ तिन आपन पुन सिम्रित चलाए ॥१७॥ All the great rishis (sages), who were then created, produced their own Smritis.17. ਜੇ ਸਿੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਨ ਕੇ ਭਏ ਅਨੁਰਾਗੀ ॥ ਤਿਨਿ ਤਿਨਿ ਕ੍ਰਿਆ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਕੀ ਤਿਆਗੀ ॥ जे सिम्रितन के भए अनुरागी ॥ तिनि तिनि क्रिआ ब्रहम की तिआगी ॥ All those who became followers of these smritis, they abandoned the path of the Lord. ਜਿਨ ਮਨ ਹਰਿ ਚਰਨਨ ਠਹਿਰਾਯੋ ॥ ਸੋ ਸਿੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਨ ਕੇ ਰਾਹ ਨ ਆਯੋ ॥੧੮॥ जिन मन हरि चरनन ठहिरायो ॥ सो सिम्रितन के राह न आयो ॥१८॥ Those who devoted themselves to the Feet of the Lord, they did not adopt the path of the Smritis.18. ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਚਾਰ ਹੀ ਬੇਦ ਬਨਾਏ ॥ ਸਰਬ ਲੋਕ ਤਿਹ ਕਰਮ ਚਲਾਏ ॥ ब्रहमा चार ही बेद बनाए ॥ सरब लोक तिह करम चलाए ॥ Brahma composed all the four Vedas, all the people followed the injunctions contained in them. ਜਿਨ ਕੀ ਲਿਵ ਹਰਿ ਚਰਨਨ ਲਾਗੀ ॥ ਤੇ ਬੇਦਨ ਤੇ ਭਏ ਤਿਆਗੀ ॥੧੯॥ जिन की लिव हरि चरनन लागी ॥ ते बेदन ते भए तिआगी ॥१९॥ Those who were devoted to the Feet of the Lord, they abandoned the Vedas.19. ਜਿਨ ਮਤਿ ਬੇਦ ਕਤੇਬਨ ਤਿਆਗੀ ॥ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਕੇ ਭਏ ਅਨੁਰਾਗੀ ॥ जिन मति बेद कतेबन तिआगी ॥ पारब्रहम के भए अनुरागी ॥ Those who abandoned the path of the Vedas and Katebs, they became the devotees of the Lord. ਤਿਨ ਕੇ ਗੂੜ ਮਤਿ ਜੇ ਚਲਹੀ ॥ ਭਾਤਿ ਅਨੇਕ ਦੁਖਨ ਸੋ ਦਲਹੀ ॥੨੦॥ तिन के गूड़ मति जे चलही ॥ भाति अनेक दुखन सो दलही ॥२०॥ Whosoever follows their path, he faces various types of sufferings.20. ਜੇ ਜੇ ਸਹਿਤ ਜਾਤਨ ਸੰਦੇਹਿ ॥ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕੋ ਸੰਗਿ ਨ ਛੋਡਤ ਨੇਹ ॥ जे जे सहित जातन संदेहि ॥ प्रभ को संगि न छोडत नेह ॥ Those who consider the castes illusory, they do not abandon the love of the Lord. ਤੇ ਤੇ ਪਰਮ ਪੁਰੀ ਕਹ ਜਾਹੀ ॥ ਤਿਨ ਹਰਿ ਸਿਉ ਅੰਤਰੁ ਕਛੁ ਨਾਹੀਂ ॥੨੧॥ ते ते परम पुरी कह जाही ॥ तिन हरि सिउ अंतरु कछु नाहीं ॥२१॥ When they leave the world, they go to the abode of the Lord, and there is no difference between them and the Lord.21. ਜੇ ਜੇ ਜੀਯ ਜਾਤਨ ਤੇ ਡਰੈ ॥ ਪਰਮ ਪੁਰਖ ਤਜਿ ਤਿਨ ਮਗਿ ਪਰੈ ॥ जे जे जीय जातन ते डरै ॥ परम पुरख तजि तिन मगि परै ॥ Those who fear the castes and follow their path, abandoning the Supreme Lord. ਤੇ ਤੇ ਨਰਕ ਕੁੰਡ ਮੋ ਪਰਹੀ ॥ ਬਾਰ ਬਾਰ ਜਗ ਮੋ ਬਪੁ ਧਰਹੀ ॥੨੨॥ ते ते नरक कुंड मो परही ॥ बार बार जग मो बपु धरही ॥२२॥ They fall into hell and transmigrate again and again.22. Dasam Granth sahib
  8. It is my appeal to gursikhs that they should read Dasam Granth themselves.You will find that how much false propaganda is being carried out against bani that gives us our identity. If there is one sikh scripture that denounces brahminism in a very resolute language that is Dasam granth. Read it and stand for bani of Dasam pita. Wake up as some anti sikh forces are depriving us from our heritage and from source of inspiration.Only way you can rebut them if you have knowledge of dasam granth sahib's bani yourselves.
  9. Such meetings are arranged by a few Kala afghani groups in US as well.They said that they were going to hold meeting about Ludhiana firing.But that was a deceptive tactic employed by them.The real intent was to support blasphemy of Ragi darshan in a deceitful way. They were finally exposed and even beaten by sangat in one of the meetings. In the same way yesterday meeting was not about calender.It was an agenda to show support for blasphemic ragi and please their boss who is boss of ragi as well.
  10. This is friend of this group of so called AKJ , UK bad mouthing sikh struggle. Once they befriend such anti sikh people they can not hide their agenda.
  11. It has nothing to do with gurgaddi to SGGS ji.That nobody disputes. It is about blasphemy of heretics who are disowning dasam bani.It is about a group who is hijacking the name of AKJ but following nastik kala afghanis.It is about exposing these heretics who have no link with AKJ of India but using that name and doing anti sikh things.
  12. Maimoorakh ji Sikhs have traditions of 300 years that they are following. Kala afghana school sprang up 12 years back. It is they who are spreading propaganda against not only Dasam granth sahib but also against other sikh philosophy. A few of those are given below. 1) There is no Gurmantra for sikhs 2) Amritvela has no significance in sikhism 3) No use of naam simran 4) No incarnation in sikhism. 5) There is nothing like soul in a person. 6) Sikhs had only one guru. 7) No poroof that gurgaddi was given to SGGS ji and no proof that guru Arjan dEv ji compiled it. 8) To bow before SGGS ji is Hindu tradition 9) there was no amrit ceremony in 1699 10) there were no chali muktas I can go on but will stop here. There are referneces available on the net. If we believe those we are gone.We should counter this propaganda instead of beilieving in it.
  13. What is in you mind veer ji? What does your heart tell you? He is doubting charitropakhayan.He has not even read it and believes in hearsays. Charitropakhayan is cautionary and not entertaining as these perverts try to propagate. When you want to caution others about moral degradation or ill effects of unbridled kam ( sex) you have to write in that language to make people to understand. He does not know that one of our bajjar kurehit comes from charitropakhayn.That bajjar kurehit is not to indulge in extra marital affair. i am not from Damdami taksal.I do not know what they do. But i can say that this is bani of tenth master and its manuscript of 1720 is still preserved in Punjab university library.Those who condemn this writing may have to find a new religion. Now you are changing your tone.A few posts before you were saying per directive of akal takhat this is not from tenth master. Need to say before spreading such malicious propaganda remember that no one has liberty to disown bani of our Gurus.
  14. MKoorakh ji wrote I do not celebrate my birthday. We celebrate our gurus birthday and it had been a tradition to do do so since guru period. Moorakh ji wrote We get so many things from internet.we need to use our mind also before forwarding such lies especially when they concern our scripture.So you do not have the refrenece of what you posted . You should say that you were wrong as no such letter exists.It is a propaganda by kala afghana forces and atheists. Charitroplahayan is a writing of tenth master and purpose is to caution khalsa from moral pitfalls. it is for gurmukh jogis and not manmukh bhogis. Khalsa has been reading it and had mainteined an examplery character especially during wars. they were praised for their character by enemies. Detractors of this bani like kala afghanas was sentenced by a canadian court for moral turpitude at the age of plus 75. Shame on such heretics who have no character themselves , indulge in moral turpitude when posted as a granthi in a Gurudwara and yet have the face to write against bani that tempers character of a sikh.
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