Kharkoo4Life

For anything to function properly a certain order and structure must be maintained. If the order is disrupted then chaos ensues. Any progress will become difficult. This principle exists in every corner of the universe. From the arrangement of electrons and protons in the tiniest atoms to the pinpoint precision and organization of spacecraft engines. Each depends on a unifying order and arrangement for its proper functioning. Even if only a few bolts or clamps break off or a few neutrons collide or tear apart the results could be catastrophic. Satellite collisions. A nuclear explosion. Complete destruction. A similar principle exists in man’s life. In fact it is the very SAME principle which operates in the whole universe. Einstein was one of the first scientists to search for a single unifying principle/theory to explain the universe. A law which exists and operates in every spec of matter and non-matter in the universe. Which binds all together. He searched and searched but remained without success. It didn’t mean such a law didn’t exist. He had died with the firm belief that it did exist out there. And he was right. The only problem was that the law he searched for was not an ordinary law of science. It wasn’t a lengthy physics or mathematical theorem. It was a Divine Law. A law which can never be completely analyzed and documented. Only experienced. Gurbani refers to this law as Hukam (Divine Will). So how does this law operate? What is its role in our life? The Guru uses a beautiful example of rosary beads to answer these questions. The beads on their own are scattered all over the place. Without any order or arrangement. In complete disarray. But if one puts a thread through them they will be brought together and given beautiful form. A new existence. Gods Will is like a thread. It runs though the entire universe, including man. But we shouldn’t be so careless to assume everything is Gods doing and we are without any responsibility. It is not the thread which moves but the beads which move along the thread. The thread can’t force the beads to move. It is up to the beads to decide if and when and in which direction to move. They can try moving along the direction of the arranged thread or against it. If it goes along it, it moves smoothly. Effortlessly. Against it, it will face stiff resistance. It will struggle. But no matter how much it struggles and fights the thread it will eventually be brought back into line. It can not escape it. Such is man’s life. Gods Will is there. We can not separate from it. hukmY AMdir sBu ko bwhir hukm n koie ] Everyone is subject to His Will; no one is beyond His Will. (p.1) What we can choose is how we respond to it. Whether we choose to live in accordance with His Will or try going against it. And this option to choose is what is called free will. If we use our free will to go against it sure we can make some progress in life. But if will be difficult. Painful. Filled with struggles and anguish. The price we pay will be severe. If however we choose to live attuned to His Will rather than oppose to it, than our lives will blossom. All struggles will disappear. All pains and sorrows vanish. We will flow effortlessly through life enjoying and celebrating every moment of it. And one who is able to develop this love and acceptance towards His Will (instead of objection and hatred towards it) they will lose all sense of “I” (ego) and its associated problems. nwnk hukmY jy buJY q haumY khY n koie ]2] O Nanak, one who understands His Command, does not speak in ego. (p.1) And thus they will have found true permanent bliss! Rab Rakha

Fateh, Please find attached a pamphlet discussing Guru Arjan Dev Ji. Feel free to print and distribute to family and friends. Rab Rakha guru_arjan_dev.doc

Achieving Permanent Bliss All our lives we are working—working upon ourself, struggling, doing whatsoever can be done—and nothing is happening. We must understand why nothing is happening. The very effort was the barrier, the very ladder was preventing, the very urge to seek was the obstacle. Not that one can reach without seeking. Seeking is needed, but then comes a point when seeking has to be dropped. The boat is needed to cross the river but then comes a moment when you have to get out of the boat and forget all about it and leave it behind. Effort is needed, without effort nothing is possible. And also only with effort, nothing is possible. A moment comes when you see the whole futility of effort. You have done all that you can do and nothing is happening. You have done all that is humanly possible. Then what else can you do? In sheer helplessness one drops all search. And the day the search stopped, the day you are not seeking for something, the day you are not expecting something to happen, it will start happening. A new energy will arise—out of nowhere. It is not coming from any source. It will be coming from nowhere and everywhere. It will be in the trees and in the rocks and the sky and the sun and the air—it will be everywhere. And yet we have been seeking so hard, and thinking it is very far away. But in fact it is so near and so close. Just because we are seeking we have become incapable of seeing the near. Seeking is always for the far, seeking is always for the distant—and blissfulness (enlightenment) is not distant. We have become far-sighted, we have lost the near-sightedness. The eyes have become focussed on the far away, the horizon, and they have lost the quality to see that which is just close, surrounding you. The day effort ceases, you will also cease. The “I” will cease to exist. Because you cannot exist without effort, and you cannot exist without desire, and you cannot exist without striving. The phenomenon of the ego, of the self, is not a thing, it is a process. It is not a substance sitting there inside you; you have to create it each moment. It is like pedalling bicycle. If you pedal it goes on and on, if you don't pedal it stops. It may go a little because of the past momentum, but the moment you stop pedalling, in fact the bicycle starts stopping. It has no more energy, no more power to go anywhere. It is going to fall and collapse. The ego exists because we go on pedalling desire, because we go on striving to get something, because we go on jumping ahead of ourselves. That is the very phenomenon of the ego—the jump ahead of yourself, the jump in the future, the jump in the tomorrow. The jump in the non-existential creates the ego. Because it comes out of the non-existential. It is like a mirage. It consists only of desire and nothing else. It consists only of thirst and nothing else. The ego is not in the present, it is in the future. If you are in the future, then ego seems to be very substantial. If you are in the present the ego is a mirage, it starts disappearing. The day you stop seeking… or more properly stated the day the seeking stops. Because if I stop it then I am there again. Now stopping becomes my effort, now stopping becomes my desire, and desire goes on existing in a very subtle way. You cannot stop desire; you can only understand it. In the very understanding is the stopping of it. Remember, nobody can stop desiring, and the reality happens only when desire stops. So this is the dilemma. What to do? Desire is there and the guru says desire has to be stopped, and they go on saying in the next breath that you cannot stop desire. So what to do? You put people in a dilemma. They are in desire, certainly. You say it has to be stopped—okay. And then you say it cannot be stopped. Then what is to be done? The desire has to be understood. By understanding it you can just see the futility of it. A direct perception is needed, an immediate penetration is needed. Look into desire, just see what it is, and you will see the falsity of it, and you will see it is non-existential. And desire drops and something drops simultaneously within you. Desire and the ego exist in cooperation, they coordinate. The ego cannot exist without desire, the desire cannot exist without the ego. Desire is projected ego, ego is introjected desire. They are together, two aspects of one phenomenon. The day desiring stops you will feel very hopeless and helpless. No hope because no future. Nothing to hope because all hoping has proved futile, it leads nowhere. You go in rounds. It goes on dangling in front of you, it goes on creating new mirages, it goes on calling you, 'Come on, run fast, you will reach.' But howsoever fast you run you never reach. That's why gurbani calls it a mirage. It is like the horizon that you see around the earth. It appears but it is not there. If you go it goes on running from you. The faster you run, the faster it moves away. The slower you go, the slower it moves away. But one thing is certain—the distance between you and the horizon remains absolutely the same. Not even a single inch can you reduce the distance between you and the horizon. You cannot reduce the distance between you and your hope. Hope is horizon. You try to bridge yourself with the horizon, with the hope, with a projected desire. The desire is a bridge, a dream bridge—because the horizon exists not, so you cannot make a bridge towards it, you can only dream about the bridge. You cannot be joined with the non-existential. The day the desires stop, the day you look and realize into it, you will see its futility. You will become helpless and hopeless. But that very moment something will start happening. That which you have been working on your whole life but has never happened. In your hopelessness is the only hope, and in your desirelessness is your only fulfillment, and in your tremendous helplessness suddenly the whole existence starts helping you. It is waiting. When it sees that you are working on your own, it does not interfere. It waits. It can wait infinitely because there is no hurry for it. It is eternity. The moment you are not on your own, the moment you drop, the moment you disappear, the whole existence rushes towards you, enters you. Only then will you have found True Eternal Bliss. pihlw mrxu kbUil jIvx kI Cif Aws ] [First, accept death, and give up any hope of life. hohu sBnw kI ryxukw qau Awau hmwrY pwis ]1] Become the dust of the feet of all, and then, you may come to me.

Life's up and downs provide windows of opportunity to determine your values and goals. Think of using all obstacles as stepping stones to build the life you want. -- Marsha Sinetar Too often we get caught up in past events, both good and bad. When something 'good' happens we become elated, pushing our mind's ego higher and higher on top a pedestal. We feel everythign is perfect, unbreakable, unchangeable that nothing can go wrong. Then when something suddenly happens not according to how we planned our fragile ego comes crashing down. SImilarly, when something 'bad' happens we get engrossed in sadness, doubt and hopelessness. The same fragile ego which was once hovering at lofty heights is now being pushed deeper and deeper into the ground. In either case, regardless of up or down our minds remain firmly chained down by the ego. Unable to enjoy the freedom of life. We keep going over past events (good and bad) over and over. Trying to convince ourselves if i hadnt done this then this could have happened. OR if someone hadnt said or did this to me then i could have been enjoying a different life. But this approach is entirely wrong!! The contentment (or lack thereof) we enjoy in life is not contingent on a 2nd party. It is dependent only on ourselves. How we perceive events will determine how we feel. ANd how we feel will determine how we act. And this in turn will determine the course of new events. THus u can see that the whole cycle repeats itself endlessly and the only way to infuse change is to change our perception of events. We should view each event not as a failure or triumph, for both feed our ego in their own way. We should see them as opportunities to learn about ourself. IF u continually 'failing' at something and feeling depressed, angry, or disappointed by it then perhaps it is not cuz u are incapable or lacking but rather what u are hoping to achieve is not in tune with ur real being. COmpromising ones true inner values for sake of superficial success (be it at school, work or in a relationship) is fatal. While such success can bring about ecstacy and happiness it is only transient. SOon with time it will fade. But the black marks such a "short-cut" approach leaves on ones spirit can be eternal. Day by day our spirit continues to be suffocated by our rush for this superficial success. Until it becomes so weak and weary that its revival becomes near impossible. Do not let ur spirit become weak. DO not let it slowly die away for sake of transient worldly successes or pleasures. Feed it with love. Nurture it wth humility. And water it with kindess. FOr developing these virtues in our life are the True Goals which we should all be striving to have success in. These are what will make happiness possible and everlasting. ANd ultimately, these will form the foundation of the life "we have always dreamed of living." ਮਨਿ ਤਨਿ ਹਰਿ ਗਾਵਹਿ ਪਰਮ ਸੁਖੁ ਪਾਵਹਿ ਹਰਿ ਹਿਰਦੈ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਣ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਜੀਉ ॥ With mind and body, they sang of the Lord, and attained supreme peace. In their hearts was the spiritual wisdom of the Lord's Glorious Virtues. ਗੁਣ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਪਦਾਰਥੁ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਕਿਰਤਾਰਥੁ ਸੋਭਾ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਹੋਈ ॥ Their wealth was the spiritual wisdom of the Lord's Glorious Virtues; the Lord was their success, and to live as Gurmukh was their glory. Enshrining the virtues of God in ones heart is the true sign of success. And this is made possible by... ਸਚੁ ਸੰਜਮੋ ਸਾਰਿ ਗੁਣਾ ਗੁਰ ਸਬਦੁ ਕਮਾਈਐ ਰਾਮ ॥ By practicing truthfulness and self-restraint, by contemplating His Glorious Virtues, and living the Word of the Guru's Shabad. ਸਚੁ ਸਬਦੁ ਕਮਾਈਐ ਨਿਜ ਘਰਿ ਜਾਈਐ ਪਾਈਐ ਗੁਣੀ ਨਿਧਾਨਾ ॥ Practicing the True Word of the Shabad, one comes to the home of his own inner being, and obtains the treasure of virtue. Rab Rakha

Fateh, Just wanted to give a quick reminder to everyone that the annual online summer gurbani course has begun. New lessons are posted every saturday and the course runs for 4 months (May- Aug). The subject topic for this year is Sukhmani Sahib (ashtpadhis 9-12). Each lesson is covered in a 3-tiered approach. First it is sung in traditional kirtan format. There is then an accompanying discourse (katha) on the bani in panjabi. And finally there is a detailed explanation in english as well as key points, and question/answers for each lesson summarized online. All material is free to access and download. The website is www.ggsacademy.com This is an excellent opportunity to learn and be better able to implement the message of our Guru in our daily lives. I encourage everyone to try it out. If anyone has any questions or suggestions to help improve the lessons we encourage you to share your ideas with the sevadaars of the academy. Thank you. Rab Rakha

Fateh, Taksali Singh has pretty much summed up what the lines referenced above actually mean when translated in english. The only thing i would add as in many cases with gurbani, the tuk is filled with metaphors which all relate to a common theme or message. In this case, the underlying message is essentially that man is busily engaged in various activities in life (making as much money as possible, trying to become powerful, increasing his own stature in society, become more beautiful etc), but all these activities serve only the ego. because while doing these activities unnecessary harm is done to all those around him. Rather than provide an exhaustive list of such acitivities, the guru uses some prime examples to send this message. bRhmx kYlI Gwqu kM\kw AxcwrI kw Dwnu ] Killing a brahimin, a cow or a female infant, or accepting the offerings of an evil person, iPtk iPtkw koVu bdIAw sdw sdw AiBmwnu ] these are all akin to committing the worst sins; he is forever and ever filled with egotistical pride. That is why they are regarded as "sinful", for they serve only to boost the individuals ego and do not serve the one purpose which truly matters -- to remember God. Thus in the next line of the above shabad the guru ji says: pwih eyqy jwih vIsir nwnkw ieku nwmu ] One who forgets the Naam, O Nanak, is covered by countless sins. It is important to understand what Naam here refers to. Naam isnt simply the "name of god" (i.e. waheguru, god, allah, or ram etc.) One of the most fundamental teachings of gurbani is that naam is True. So why is that the Guru refers to naam as being true (siqnwm)? Because naam is gunn, i.e. it is the embodiment of all virtues. srb gux inDwnµ kImiq n g´wnµ D´wnµ aUcy qy aUcO jwnIjY pRB qyro Qwnµ ] You are the Treasure of all virtue; who can know the value of Your spiritual wisdom and meditation? O God, Your Place is known as the highest of the high. And by continually remembering God, one continually remembers His Divine Virtues. This is what is means to never forget naam (to never forget His virtues) nwim rqy gux igAwn bIcwru ] Attuned to the Naam, they contemplate the Lord's virtues and spiritual wisdom. By always rememebring God, one is always keeping the virtues of God in his/her mind at all times and so before any thought, word or action the person thinks to themselves How would God act in this situation? Thus instead of following his own mind (ego) and engaging in wrongful immoral ways (sins) the person begins to model their life like that of God by developing the same virtues He has in their own life (i.e. love, tolerance, understanding for all). bRhm nwm gux swK qrovr inq cuin cuin pUj krIjY ] God's Name is the tree, and His Glorious Virtues are the branches. Picking and gathering up the fruit, I worship Him If we forget Naam, then no virtues will enter our life and we will be doomed to repeat the same mistakes and wrongs of our past over and over (One who forgets the Naam, O Nanak, is covered by countless sins.) In the above context, the examples given in the first line above are merely metaphors to represent all bad thoughts, actions that man engages in. They are not to be taken literally as the only sins or the most worst sins. In particular, the mention of black cow does nto mean guru ji himself considers it a sin to kill a black cow. He is merely using concepts which the average person was familiar with. To most inhabitants of india, due to various reasons, they all considered the cow to be 'sacred' and thus would not kill it. As well, killing a brahmin (the caste brahmin) was also considered one of the highest sins (according to Manuu Simratee) for the Brahmin was mans link to GOd. In the same way the guru is saying, that the Naam of God is also sacred so do not "kill it" anotherwords do not remove it from ur life (or forget it). He is trying to explain just how "wrong" it is to forget God. To state that the guru here is saying that killing black cows specifially is a sin would be wrong. For we would all agree that the Guru was neither a hindu or muslim and did not observe or practice any of their religious customs. Yet in gurbani it explicitly states: hku prwieAw nwnkw ausu sUAr ausu gwie ] To take what rightfully belongs to another, is like a Muslim eating pork, or a Hindu eating beef. Is the guru saying that killing pigs or cows is a sin for a Sikh? No. A Sikh doesnt beleive in the concept of halaal vs haraam like a muslim, nor does a Sikh consider cows to be sacred creatures like hindus worthy of worship. He is simply giving the example that opressing others, taking something forcefully from another person (be it their material possesion, money or their dignity, freedom) is like committing the worse religoius taboo. So let us not get caught up, in whether we should or shouldnt kill cows, or only black cows and understand the underlying message of this shabad.

Exactly. The movie was Nanak Naam Jahaz Hai (which coincidently was produced by Non-Sikhs, who themselves on their own chose to include the dhe shiva shabad in the movie). The majority of Sikhs after seeing this movie, automatically assumed this shabad to represent the National Anthem of Sikhs.

No one is calling the gurus bani a 'bipar poem'. The whole point is whether this composition is actually written by the guru to begin with. As it says in the article written by the singh, one is encouraged to actually go out and read the entire composition in which the deh shiva shabad is found to understand its true meaning. And once one understands its true meaning, the question then becomes could the guru actually write this or was it written by someone else. Thus if the writer is not actually the guru, then calling it a bipar poem would not be a blasphemous statement but rather a statement of truth. ANyways, for those who may not have read the dasam granth and where this shabad is taken from, below are the pages immediately preceding and following the dhe shiva shabad. Please read and decide for urself whether this could be written by a guru. SWAYYA When Chnadi appeared with her sword in the battlefield. None of the demons could withstand her ire. She killed and destroyed all, who can then wage a war without the king? The enemies trembled with fear in their hearts, they abandoned the pride of their heroism. Then the demons leaving the battlefield, ran away like the good qualities from the avarice.224. End of the Seventh Chapter entitled `Slaying of Sumbh` in CHANDI CHARITRA of Markandeya Purana.7. SWAYYA. With whose fear Indra had fied from heaven and Brahma and other gods, had been filled with fear. The same demons, seeing defeat in the battlefield, being devoid of their power had run away. The jackals and vultures, having been dejected, have returned to the forest, even the two watches of the day have not elapsed. The mother of the world (goddess), ever the protector of saints, hath conquered the great enemies Sumbh and Nisumbh.225. All the gods gathering at one place and taking rice, saffron and sandalwood. Lakhs of gods, circumambulating the goddess immeditately applied the frontal mark (of victory) on her forehead. The glory of that event hath been imagined by the poet in his mind like this: It seemed that in the sphere of the moon, the period of "propitious rejoicings" hath penetrated. 226. KAVIT All the gods gathered and sang this Eulogy in praise of the goddess: "O Universal mother, Thou hast effaced a very great sin; "Thou hast bestowed on Indra the kingdom of heaven by killing the demons, Thou hast earned great repulations and Thy glory hath spread in the world. "All the sages, spiritual as well as royal bless Thee again and again, they have revited there the mantra called `Brahm-Kavach` (the spiritual coat of mail)." The praise of Chandika pervades thus in all the three worlds like the merging of the pure water of the ganges in the current of the ocean.227. SWAYYA All the women of the gods bless the goddess and performing the aarti (the religious ceremony performed around the image of the deity) they have lighted the lamps. They offer flowers, fragrance and rice and the women of Yakshas sing songs of victory. They burn the incence and blow the conch and supplicate bowing their heads. "O Universal mother, ever Giver of the comfort, by killing Sumbh, Thou hast earned a great approhbation."228. Giving all the royal paraphernalia to Indra, Chandi is very much pleased in her mind. Sabilising the sun and moon in the sky and making them glorious, she herself hath disappeared. The light of sun and moon hath increased in the sky, the powt hath not forgotten its comparison from his mind. It seemed that the sun had become filthy with dust and the goddess Chandi hath given him the splendour.229. KAVIT She who is the destroyer of the pride of Madhu nad Kaitabh and then the ego of Mahishasura nad who is very active in granting the boon. She who dashed the tumultuous Dhumar Lochan against the earth and sliced the heads of Chand and Mund. She who is the killer of Raktavija and drinker of his blood, masher of the enemies and beginner of the war with Nisumbh with great ire in the battlefield. She who is the destroyer of the powerful Sumbh with sword in her hand and is the conqueror of all the forces of foolish demons, HAIL, HAIL To THAT CHANDI.230. SWAYYA O Goddess, grant me this that I may not hesitate from performing good actions. I may not fear the enemy, when I go to fight and assuredly I may become victorious. And I may give this instruction to my mind and have this tempotration that I may ever utter Thy Praises. When the end of my life comes, then I may die fighting in the battlefield.231. I have narrated this Chandi Charitra in poetry, which is all full of Rudra Rasa (sentiment of ragge). The stanzas one and all, are beautifully composed, which contain new sillies from beginning to end. The poet hath composed it for the pleasure of his mind, and the discourse of seven hundred sholokas is completed here. For whatever purpose a person ready it or listens to it, the goddess will assuredly grant him that.232. DOHRA I have translated the book named Satsayya (a poem of seven hundred shalokas), which hath nothing equal to it. The purpose for which the poet hath comosed it, Chandi may grant him the same.233.

I recently came across a discussion on another forum dealing with Deh Shiva. I am sure almost everyone here is familiar with this shabad. It is sung with great pride at nearly all large or important sikh events, particularly in interfaith gatherings where it is told to all listeners as being the "Sikh National Anthem". I too since a very young age have accepted this shabad as being A Sikhs National Anthem. I have never bothered to find out where this shabad is from, apart from the basic facts that it was allegedly written by Guru Gobind Singh Ji and having gone through the simple english translation of it. My dad had brought up the issue of the origin of thsi shabad during a vaisakhi related event we had gone to, but at that time i did not bother to do any further research on the matter. However, i have been reading more about it lately, particularly to do with what the shabad actually signifies and represents. After having gone thru the actual source from where this verse of Deh Shiva is taken (Chandi Charittar of Dasam Granth) one gets a completely different picture of the meaning of this shabad then the popular version we have all been taught since kids. Anyways, i thought i would post that individuals comments regarding this matter as i found them very informative. I would encourage everyone to read this with an open mind, go thru the suggestions the writer makes, and then sit down and decide for themselves what the true meaning of this shabad really is and whether it is proper to market this shabad as the "Sikhs National Anthem". Again by no means am i forcing anyone to change their views about the shabad nor am i saying you should keep the same views. The object here is simply to share information in an open forum, have discussion on it, and then leave it up to each individual to take what they want as true and disregard the rest. Enjoy!

SImply put, metaphors is when trying to describe a particular concept, idea or feeling the person uses a completely different example to help explain the original concept/idea/feeling. For instance, gurbani states that for a SIkh, his GUru is vital to his existence. Every step a Sikh takes, is centered around the teachings of his guru. Gurbani uses the metaphor of a relationship between man and water to explain how important a guru is to a sikh. ijau pRwxI jl ibnu hY mrqw iqau isKu gur ibnu mir jweI ]15] Just as the mortal dies without water, so does the Sikh die without the Guru. For a sikh, living a life wihout his guru, i.e. by not following the teachings of the guru, is like an ordinary man trying to survive without water. Its impossible. This same concept is explained using other metaphors in the following shabad. As u will see, metaphors are merely examples of things which are common in everyday life, or things which ppl will understand more easily and are already familiar with. By using these familiar examples, it helps the reader to understand new ideas the guru has put forth which may otherwise seem confusing or hard to grasp. Agin mrY jlu pweIAY ijau bwirk dUDY mwie ] As thirst is quenched with water, and the baby is satisfied with mother's milk, ibnu jl kml su nw QIAY ibnu jl mInu mrwie ] and as the lotus does not exist without water, and as the fish dies without water nwnk gurmuiK hir ris imlY jIvw hir gux gwie ]8]15]- O Nanak, so does the Gurmukh live, receiving the Sublime Essence of the Lord, and singing the Glorious Praises of the Lord. With regards to the Baba Deep Singh reference, what randeep singh said above is the essence of the story. It doesnt matter which verison of the story we beleive, for it is but a story. Whats more important than the story is the moral lesson or meaning behind the story which we should take home. And that is to be willing to sacrifice everything for what we beleive in and willing to fight for that belief right till the end no matter how hard and impossible the odds seem stacked against us. I realize many people have great respect for Baba Deep Singh, as do i. I regard him as one of the finest examples of what a true Sikh embodies. However, due to whatever reasons, certain historians, storywriters have added unnecessary miraculous events to the life of Baba Deep Singh. Perhaps they feel like christians, a sikh needs to see his role models (gurus, purataan sikh) perform miracles or display supernatural powers in order for them to be inspired to follow them. The true miracle is not the display of supernatural po0wers, which defy the laws of nature. For me the true miracle is the lives of the gurus, and the sikhs of that time, who despite the most challenging and insurmountable odds and pressures were able to live a remarkable life using the same ordinary means as u and me (honest hard effort) that was completely void of any vice, of the highest moral character both in theory and practice and be able to stay completely merged with God throughout their life. About the baba deep singh story, despite the most certain protest my post will bring on, i must state that NO SIKH (OR GURU) EVER ENGAGED IN ANY MIRACLE OR DISPLAY OF SUPERNATURAL POWER. All sikhs lived by the hukam of God. THey used the same means as those around them to fight for their belief. They did not resort to any special means to stay alive and gain an extra few minutes of fighting for whatever reason they thought necessary. Thousands of sikhs of that time lived lives of the same spiritual level as baba deep singh yet why is he the only one who felt the need to fight with his head cut off? Just to fulfill his own prophecy? Was he so full of ego that he couldnt bare to see his own words not come true? And then he had to use special means or make a special prayer to god so that he could fulfill his own words? How self-centered would that be? When baba deep singh said i will not give up until i have reached darbar sahib, it does not mean he was willing to rely on miraculous powers simply to reach that site. It was a means of inspriing his fellow men that they should be ready to give up all and die, anotherwords do whatever it takes to keep the torch of truth alive. The same words of inspiration and asking of commitmment of the follower was used by guru nanak: jau qau pRym Kylx kw cwau ] If you desire to play this game of love with Me, isru Dir qlI glI myrI Awau ] then step onto My Path with your head in hand. iequ mwrig pYru DrIjY ] When you place your feet on this Path, isru dIjY kwix n kIjY ]20] give Me your head, and do not pay any attention to public opinion. People often qoute the above lines when describing baba deep singhs saheedi, but they completely distort the true meaning of the shabad. The guru is not saying to literally cut off ur head and come to me. He is sayin be willing to give up everything and surrender ur completle self to me (i.e. give up ur own thinking, ur own mut, ur own ego). Only then will u be able to follow this path for u wont care for ur own personal views, or the views of tothers, the only view whicih will matter is the view of the guru. And then, if need be, be willing to die for this path of truth. A better translation of the above shabad would be: "If you wish to play the game of love, Come to me with readiness to die in your heart, For on this path, even the first step should mean that You will not hesitate to lay down your life - for righteousness." So HEAD IS A METAPHOR TO REPRESENT BE WILLING TO SURRENDER ALL FOR THE CAUSE OF TRUTH. The same way it used in the story (tho it wud have been better to avoid using that metaphor in the story to avoid the obvious confusion it creates amongst sikhs who blindly cling to the notion that this actually occurred) The other shabad which ppl often use in support of this story is that written by bhagat kabir: ggn dmwmw bwijE pirE nIswnY Gwau ] The battle-drum beats in the sky of the mind; aim is taken, and the wound is inflicted. Kyqu ju mWifE sUrmw Ab jUJn ko dwau ]1] The spiritual warriors enter the field of battle; now is the time to fight! ||1|| sUrw so pihcwnIAY ju lrY dIn ky hyq ] He alone is known as a spiritual hero, who fights in defense of religion. purjw purjw kit mrY kbhU n CwfY Kyqu ]2]2] He may be cut apart, piece by piece, but he never leaves the field of battle. There was no Khalsa army at that time, or even Sikhs around when Bhagat kabir wrote this. SO which warrior is he talking about? WHich battlefield is he talking about? As with all gurbani, the focus is on the battlefield of the mind. The focus in on the spiritual being, not the physical being. FOr all physical things are temporary and fade with time, but the spiritual core is eternal. What bhagat Ji is saying is that a true spiritual warrior is one who is able to fight off the five vices no matter how difficult it is. One who never gives into these vices even for a single moment despite how hard it may be (i.e. emotionally, socially etc to live a pious spiritual life while all others engage in these immoral thoughts and behaviour all around u). The wording is merely metaphors to describe this. IF we take this literally then commen sense will tell us that no human being (regardless what we say bout things as naam kamaee or bhagtee) can walk around and do anything if they are cut into pieces. Naam kamaee or bhagtee isnt a special mantra to give us supernatural powers, its an inner strength developed throught the recitation and understanding of gurbani to help us fight the evils of the mind. So yes, i realize at first it may seem hard to beleive, even may be viewed as an insult to baba deep singh if we try to analyze this story and say certain aspects of it is false, but truly, is it not more of an insult to baba deep singh by adding events to his life which completely go against the very fundamental principles of what he believed and fought for - Sri Guru Granth Sahib?

I don't mean to sound rude - and I'm sure what I'm about to state wasn't your attention. I'm about to say this for everyones benefit. (Guru Ji - refering to Guru Granth Sahib Ji) If Guru Ji said, don't cut your hair, you cut it - DISRESPECT If Guru Ji said, respect your parents, you disrespected them - DISRESPECT and IF GURU JI SAID, DO NOT DO IDOL WORSHIP, you did it - what is it?? DISRESPECT How many of you believe 'pics are nothing but a way to show respect to the Guru' are you ok?! I mean - they're totally against the whole idea themselves so how on earth is that showing them respect??? You're completely doing the opposite!!! They say NO so you go and do it? How does that work?? It's like your father saying don't smoke, you smoke, they find out, you get told off because you went against them, disrespected them. Respecting him would have been to follow what he stated! Bhul Chuk Maaf 149210[/snapback] Fateh, I completely agree with ur points. When i wrote "everyone says pics are nothing but a way to show respect to the guru" i wasnt saying i agree with that perception. I was merely trying to highlight the mindset of most sikhs these days. As ive stated before, i completely disagree with the presence of photos of any gurus anywhere (be it gurdwara, home, musuem) so naturally that would also mean that i view the photos as being complete disrespect and disregard towards the gurus hukam. As u urself state, respecting the guru means following his hukam, which includes absolutely NO IDOL WORSHIP IN ANY SHAPE OR FORM. Your also right that a Sikhs only source of SIkhi should be SGGS, that is why i have not left saying photos are wrong simply as a subjective opinion but tried to show how even the existence of photos goes completly against gurmat philosophy by using tuks from gurbani. ANyways, glad to see that many are seeing the light, adn actually putting their beliefs into actions by removing the photos from their homes. As for younger ppl, whose parents forcefuly put up pictures despite discussion of it being wrong, we cannot make anyone to change their views using force. All we can do is share the true meanings of gurbani with them, the true principles of sikhi sidhaant, and hope thru a loving understanding dialouge they will come to understand the flaws and dangers in such practices and reform their ways. The rest will be left in the hands of AKaal Purakh.

While talking about teh guru, of whether our guru has physical form or not, there are some points we need to remember, which we often overlook. If we look ar gurbani, the whole focus is on man's mind, thinking, not the body. That is why, according to Gurmat, the spiritual state of enlightenment or divine perfection has no relation to one’s body. This is why God has no body, the Guru does not refer to a body, a Sikh does not refer to a body and neither does a sadhu,sant, brahmgyani etc refer to any physical body. Everything is linked to a mental or spiritual state, not a physical state. That is why even the Guru spoke this about himself: sbdu gurU suriq Duin cylw ] The Shabad is the Guru, upon whom I lovingly focus my consciousness; I am the chaylaa, the disciple. If the guru was willing to do this, to focus his whole attnetion on the shabad guru, who are we as mere students to override the teacher and dare to start our own approach and focus even a second of our consciousness on a physical version of the guru? Even when referring to God, Gurbani states: rUpu n ryK n rMgu ikCu iqRhu gux qy pRB iBMn ] He has no form, no shape, no color; God is beyond the three qualities. He does not exist in the physical realm that is why He is beyond any physical quality or description. Because a sadhu also exists in the mental realm and is not confined to any physical constrictions, when Gurbani mentions a sadhu, it also states: swD kI aupmw iqhu gux qy dUir ] The greatness of the Holy people is beyond the three qualities. All physical form falls into visual perception. That is why when we base anything on physical parameters, we judge and analyze it with our visual senses. We want to see that this man has a long flowing beard, that he wears a round white dastaar and that he dresses in a long chola. We apply this to our everyday perception of sants today, and use this same visual perception to visualize our gurus. Our reference guide has become a visual image and not Gurbani. Gurbani tells us that: idRstau kCu sMig n jwie mwnu iqAwig mohw Nothing of the visible world shall go along with you; abandon your pride and attachment. Whatever we see with our eyes will eventually one day disappear. So what then remains? nwmu rihE swDU rihE rihE guru goibMdu ] The Naam remains; the Holy Saints remain; the Guru, the Lord of the Universe, remains. khu nwnk ieh jgq mY ikn jipE gur mMqu ]56] Says Nanak, how rare are those who chant the Guru's Mantra in this world. No picture is permanent, and since our guru is eternal, how can we call what we see in the pic our guru? Nothing that is seen with our eyes is permanent. It is all transient and shall fade with time. If our link to a guru is also based on appearance, then that bond shall also break with time. That is why when the Guru says “rihE guru ” we should understand that a guru is not any physical being, for no being lives forever. Hence, only that Guru remains eternal and beyond death, who exists beyond mere body. That is why our Guru is Shabad Guru, as this is eternal. Whenever we fall into the trap of using only the physical appearance to judge someone, we will fail. Thus, the greatest hurdle in man’s link to God is: ndrI AwvY iqsu isau mohu ] He is attached to what he sees. ikau imlIAY pRB AibnwsI qoih ] How can I meet You, O Imperishable God? Man’s whole focus and understanding is centered around what he can see. His only proof to believe something is that he should be able to see it. That is why to accept someone as a sant, all that is necessary is that he be visible to their eyes. When accepting their Guru, he too must have a visible form, even to the extent that when the time comes to worship their God, He too must fall in the grasp of their sight. Hence, we see countless paintings and drawings of the Guru, countless idols and statues depicting the Gods, even though each may be completely different from the other, people keep accepting them as true because they have a need, that in order to believe something, they must be able to see it. Thus, with people becoming attached to this physical form, the Guru puts forth the question, Dear Lord, You are formless and beyond our sight, so how then can one become attached to You? gux mih eyko inrmlu swcw gur kY sbid pCwqw hy ]6] The One Immaculate True Lord abides in virtue; through the Word of the Guru's Shabad, He is realized. He is not reailzed through some painting or drawing but through the shabad. This is our true guru. And any attempt to even keep a so called picture of the guru will only draw us further away from the true guru, rather than bring us closer.

Yes you are right pagal that No pics of any guru shud be present inside a gurdwara. In fact they shouldnt be present anywhere period. Gurbani clearly tells us that the shabad is the guru: bwxI gurU gurU hY bwxI ivic bwxI AMimRqu swry ] The Word, the Bani is Guru, and Guru is the Bani. Within the Bani, the Ambrosial Nectar is contained. And if we wish to follow the teachings of the guru then we must accept the above that the guru is not a person but the shabad roop bani. And we already have that inside every gurdwara in the form of SGGS, so why then would we also in the same place try to install a different version of the guru as well at the same time (i.e in the form of a painting)? The guru cant be both at the same time. Either we accept the guru as bani or accept the guru as a person. And we cant simply say the pics are for inspiration for as u rightfully state urself, isnt gurbani enough inspiration? And yes a child may not understand gurbani but does that mean we go out and change the form of the guru just to make it easier for them? Children can learn just like adults but they need different approach. Kids can pick up what is goin on around them more than we may realize. Cartoons, fairytales, toys etc show that the mind of a child will absorb and be influenced by whatever is around it. So the onus is on the parents that rather then simply showing the kids a "artificial picture" of the guru that they should take the time to teach their kids about sikh history, bout sikh principles. And for a little child this can be easy as simply telling the kids about being honest, kind and sharing wiht other people. FOr it is these virtues, or gunn, which the guru represents. And by teaching the kids about these noble virtues we are in fact teaching the kids about our true guru. I know everyone says that the pics are nothing but a way to show respect to the guru. But has anyone ever considered that muslims, a religion founded much before Sikhism, not even till this day have ever allowed a single picture, or painting to be made of their prophet mohammed. They go so far as to not even allow one to write his name or say his name without the utmost of respect. Has anyone wondered why no picture of mohamed exists? The muslims are strictly against idol worship and to prevent the followers from revering mohammed as an idol they strictly preventing any drawing of him. Yet we as sikhs, being told openly by our guru not to worship any idol, not only pay money to have paitings of the guru in our home, we proudly tell other non-sikhs that this is a pic of our 1st guru or 10th guru etc. Why have the muslims been able to prevent this type of deterioration of their teachers true value over many thousands of years while we as sikhs have allowed our gurus to be made into mere human portraits over only 500 yrs? For hundreds of hears after the departure of guru gobind singh, sikhs were able to withstand the most atrocious crimes against them and still be able to derive inspiration from the guru, including the kids. THey didnt rely on paitnings and that is why they were able to withstood so much. They relied only on the true form fo the guru which is gurbani. And regardless of how we say the pics are innocent, and do no harm, the truth is that their presence cause more harm and confusion in the younger generation then it does inspiration. That is why instead of having gurbani resonating in their minds, or playing in their cars, many kids will simply have a wallet pic of the guru or pic hangin from their rear view mirror and think to themselves that my guru is with me. We need to remove ourselves from this physical mindset and focus on the spiritual mindset which can be delivered only thru gurbani (not a pic).

Fateh, You raise an excellent question and i must say have provided a beautiful and elegant answer to your own query. Everything you have suggested is true. Now as to why the pictures do exist today and why they are so prevelant in nearly every Sikhs house there are a number of reasons for this. An interesting historical event relating to this is the time when the pictures of the gurus were first made popular and openly endorsed and sold by the SGPC around the middle of the last century (under the sanction of the Akal Takhat). Prior to this very few pictures/paintings of the gurus existed. Indeed there were the few odd paintings in the occasional gurdwaras or books but by no means was there any widespread endorsement of them. The reason for this was that the majority of the sikhs of that time, particularly the educated scholars, granthis, and leaders all understood that the guru forbidding all idol worship was not limited to just the traditional sense of stone statues but applied to any physical bodily centered representation of the guru (i.e. statue, painting, drawing). At this time, the now famous Sobha Singh was engaged in creating various paintings of Sikh history. These included his own renditions of how the gurus may have looked like. There is no denying that they are beautiful paintings however the harm which underlies their creation, and more importantly their endorsment far exceeded any limited benefit they may have served. At this time a number of other painters also, inspired by the emerging popularity of Sobha SIngh and his paintings also started creating their own renditions of the gurus pictures. Now the SGPC was faced with a dillema. Firstly, any guru painting had always been understood to be against the prinicples of gurmat (that is why not a single guru allowed even a single painting of theirs to be created while they were alive). Secondly, all these individual painters were profiting from the sale of these paintings. THe SGPC at this point had a choice whether to openly shun and boycott the sale of the sellings of any gurus paintings or to join in with the painters and profit from their efforts. In the discussions that ensued at SGPC, various eminent scholars and prominent sikh personalities of the time were invited to amritsar and their views sought out. AMongst these was Prof. Sahib SIngh, the author of the 10 volume set Guru Granth Darpan (the most extensive and accurate explanation of every single shabad in SGGS done till this day). At that time he told the SGPC leaders that if they did not take a stern stance against the emerging popularity and spread of the paintings then the negative consequences of their inaction would be disasterous and its ill effects would be near impossible to eradicate. Not only did the SGPC ingore the advice of Prof Sahib SIngh, they openly hired the services of Sobha Singh and endorsed his paintings as the "official" paitings of the Sikh Gurus (in exchange for rights to sell them). Because of this one single mistake, and countless others over the past decades by people to alienate SIkhs from their true guru (shabad-guru) paintings have become commonplace in nearly all gurdwaras and homes. Many will say that simply having a paiting and not worshipping it is ok, but the problem arises that these people fail to realize the most fundamental point of SIkhi -- that the guru was never a physical being. The guru was always and always shall be the shabad-roop bani. It is the gyaan contained within gurbani which is a sikhs true guru, and this same gyaan was the guru for every "physical" guru we talk of, including guru nanak. Thus to even possess a painting of the guru would be a total affront and negligence on the Sikhs part against his real guru. As you rightfully point out there is absolutely no need for the aritificial paintings of any guru when the gurus have left us so many other inspiring elements for us to take guidance from. It was to avoide this obsession and fixation on the physical form of the guru that Guru Gobind SIngh upon passing the gurgadhi to Guru Granth Sahib declared for eternity that a Sikhwill live by these 3 fundamental principles: 1.Pooja Akal Ki --- To Worship Only the One God (not any guru, or a pic of a guru) 2.Parcha Shabad ka -- To Understand, follow and spread the gurus teachings (i.e. spread of gurbani not spread of gurus pics) 3. Darshan Khalsay Ka -- Interaction and keeping of company with Khalsa (not interaction with gurus pictures) I posted a couple times before about pictures, so rather than repeat that stuff ill put up the links you can go to and read if u have time. Guru Pictures 1 Guru Pictures 2 Hope this helps Rab Rakha

Do u remember the words or lines in the verse? Or do u recall the page number it was on in SGGS?