Unbreakable

Thank you for your smart reply, however I am not asking sangat here for gurbani quotes, this is meant to be a discussion, but it seems like people don't like discussing issues or topics here.. In my initial post which started this thread, I was not asking a question if Gurbani confirms dasvand, etc. I was asking the Sangat here for their views. You represented your views, with words like "dharma", karma, etc. Infact here is your post "When I say investment, i mean that when you spend time following the dharmic practices you are investing in yourself, in improving your karma, in reducing the ties that tie down your soul from freedom. japping naam is an investment for the same reason. sitting and listening in sangat is as well. All these things that move you closer to God are a true investment"... I don't want this to turn into one of those typical ego fights. The purpose of this thread is that the Sangat comes together and educates one another, not to show off their Gurbani knowledge, etc. So, I ask again you again to read my post again and think about it..else please no smart remarks, however I can't stop you for doing that... vaheguru ji ka khalsa, vaheguru ji ki fateh

Thank you for your smart reply, however I am not asking sangat here for gurbani quotes, this is meant to be a discussion, but it seems like people don't like discussing issues or topics here.. In my initial post which started this thread, I was not asking a question if Gurbani confirms dasvand, etc. I was asking the Sangat here for their views. You represented your views, with words like "dharma", karma, etc. Infact here is your post "When I say investment, i mean that when you spend time following the dharmic practices you are investing in yourself, in improving your karma, in reducing the ties that tie down your soul from freedom. japping naam is an investment for the same reason. sitting and listening in sangat is as well. All these things that move you closer to God are a true investment"... I don't want this to turn into one of those typical ego fights. The purpose of this thread is that the Sangat comes together and educates one another, not to show off their Gurbani knowledge, etc. So, I ask again you again to read my post again and think about it..else please no smart remarks, however I can't stop you for doing that... vaheguru ji ka khalsa, vaheguru ji ki fateh

He was a talent person and a good guy. What is born must die, that is the way of the world. We all will die, the only difference is how and when we go.

Don't know what media channel you are watching. The British and Americans and their alliance of the willing are NOT FIGHTING A WAR. It is an invasion. Iraq too was invaded. Another example of how the establishment and media twist the truth. The Sikhs which were murdered, raped, looted, slaughter, etc in India, largely in Delhi and Panjab are popularily known as "84 Riots". It was not riots, it was a calculated systematic selective genocide of a particular community sponsored, supported, funded, maintained by the establishment, which includes the police, army, various religious institutions, law enforcerment officers and the legal system of the country. If we call the 1984 incident Riots, then we should rename the Holocaust, Rawanda Genocide as Riots aswell. The definition of what a Riot is as per Oxford Dictionary and other dictionaries A riot is a form of civil disorder characterized often by what is thought of as disorganized groups lashing out in a sudden and intense rash of violence against authority, property or people Oxford http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/riot Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riot Merriam-Webster http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/riot What it should be Genocide is "the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/genocide?q=genocide http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/genocide Now before certain members have difficulities processing this, misunderstand this and believe this to be a "rant", they should be aware, from Sikh History, that we are in a state of war. We were attacked in 1984 and this attack was acknowledged as an declaration of war against the Sikh Nation in 1986, after which our Sikh Brothers and Sisters, be they Fathers, Brothers, Uncles, Husbands, Mothers, Sisters, Aunties, Wives and Friends were attacked again by the establishment. Evidence of which was found by Shaheed Bhai Sahib Bhai Jaswant Singh Khalra who was killed by the establishment. Shame on us (don't worry, Me Too) for getting sucked into the propaganda by our so called Sikh Leaders who sit at the feet of Extremist Hindu Politicians & Religious Leaders. We are fighting over issues such as Dasam Granth, Raagmala, Rehit, 5k, etc etc. Can you not see that these are non-issues which are deliberately pushed forward by these agents of evil and then in turn pushed forward by so called educated gyanis who don't know what is happening outside of panjab, let alone the world, hell they don't even know our history. Then you have Hindus who are calling Sikhs like Bhai Mati Das Brahmins. The Fools are mistaken if they believe they are our brothers. They will stab you when you least expect it. This is not an act of brotherhood, this is an act of inteference, because they know that the Sikh Leader ship are at their feet. WAKE the F**K UP However what you do is your own personal business, know this that within the next 20 to 35 years the Sikh faith in India will change radically, so much so, Sikhs themselves, just like buddhist will openly say "oh we are a part of the Snatan Dharma, we are a branch this Dharmic Tree". Hell you already have people, saying this openly now. We have nobody but ourselves to blame for this, not the Afghans, not the Mughals, not the British, not the Hindus, but US. WE are responsible for this. This is why the panth is in disarray as it has lost its Niara-pan, uniqueness. I quote, Master of Masters, King of Kings, Mahabali, Khalgidhar Siri SatGuru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaaj "Jab Lag Khalsa Rahe Niara, Tab Lag Tej Dioon Mein Sara, Jab Eh Gaye Bipran Ki Reet, Mein Na Karoon In Ki Parteet" SatGuru Ji gave us meek weak poor people Sardari, Soverign Rule was bestowed upon us by SatGuru Ji and we lost it. Instead of running to SatGuru Ji, we run to Deras, Babey and Sants who have opened up their own Gurdwaras (oh but no, its registered on Siri SatGuru Granth Sahib Ji), who have made Gurdwaras and Gurbani into a business. Then we take pride in working for a family which is responsible for looting the whole world, not forgetting interferring into (with the help of the Hindus establishment), Sikh affairs. Don't get me wrong, I am not a racist and against the Hindu people, it is the Evil leaders who are at the helm of the faith, just like the Evil people who are at the helm of our Gurdwaras, all Thakats, religious educational institutions, I am against them wholeheartedly. and if people here think this is just internet talk, then meet me in person, I am more vocal in person, I am not afraid of anybody or anything. I do not fear Vaheguru, because Vaheguru is not to be feared, Vaheguru is to be loved, I love Vaheguru, Vaheguru and Sri SatGuru is my source of inspiration. Now make of this what you will, I don't care. vaheguru ji ka khalsa, vaheguru ji ki fateh.

Sure, what does Gurbani have to say on this? please do prove some quotations to share with the sangat

what a waste of thread. sounds more like a script of one of Harbhajan Maans films...

There is no tangent or rant. The OP just pasted a link to a news article and the posts by various members represent their own views. I never asked you to summarise for me. please read my post again if you are misaken. I repeat, let me know the conflicting points, I'll give you my summary...simples oh and...err.. yeah LOL...is that fine? no no, maybe LMAO.. Ego. terrible isn't it.

Brother, I am just asking a question, I want to know what people here, people who actually study Gurbani, practise it think and believe. Read my post,think about it. What is Gurbanis stand point (PLEASE PLEASE don't just copy and paste Gurbani, go through it, explain your decision.) Replies like "oh because this sant said this etc" will not wash here. What I believe is irrelevant at this stage. There are alot of pakhandis who use gurbani, religious texts to emotionally black mail people, putting the fear of god into them, indirectly, just to fill their pockets. Its happening right now, has been happening and will continue to happen long after I am dead, so in those respects you can also say its pointless to talk about it. But is it really?

let me know the conflicting points, I'll give you my summary...simples

There is no guarantee that a gursevak will be any honest that a cancer charity, regardless of the fact if that person wears the same chola or not. The only thing you have is "hope" that he or she is honest. Explain this "large seva return on investment" - when did this ever become an investment? Be Objective about this, not Subjective.

VaheGuru Ji Ka Khalsa, VaheGuru Ji Ki Fateh, I hope this topic raises some sort of constructive discussion here, where we can learn something. This is a issue which is very close to everyone, as it involves you giving part of something which belongs to a complete stranger with whom you have no affiliation, most of the time this "something" is Money. Most of the time, only Money is asked for, very few organisations ask for skills of an individual, etc. This is the case for all religious organisations, Islam, Hinduism, Judaism, Jain, Sikhi, Christianity, etc. There is some sort of divine law which requires or in some cases warrants us to give to the needy and less fortunate. I would like to discuss what Gurbani has to say about Dasvand, where this concept was mentioned, how it was born, who put it forward. Some of the ways in which we are asked to donate are - Donate your dasvand to - Donate the Gurus dasvand to - To attain Gurus happyness, donate to - If you don't donate, you will be in Karmic Debt - Sikhi will be finished if you don't donate -How do you know that your dasvand will be used honestly, if it isn't then you will be held responsible and the bad karmic action will affect you too. For example, we give money to a Baba (or organisation), but that baba (or organisation) doesn't use that money for the intended purpose. Because he didn't use it for the intended purpose, you will also be affected by his bad karmic action. Now, lets say if you make all possible enquiries into where the money will go, you still will be held responsible. In these incidents, YOU, the person donating, do not know about the hidden agenda of the baba (or organisation). So question is, HOW ARE YOU RESPONSIBLE? I first heard this from a Radha Soami in India around 7 years ago, where he was saying, if you donate your money to a poor man and he goes and drinks, then beats his wife up or kills her, YOU will be HELD responsible. When I challenged him, he just kept to his line that you will be held responsible EVEN if you don't know. After all of this, he said, So its better to donate to US as we will honestly spend your money. *the small print* So as we see, Psychological and Emotional blackmailing is used to make you feel guilty about something which "might" happen in the future. However if you give to them, then you are OK and NOTHING will happen to you. Are these ways of making you feel guilty to take your money from you???? So, what does Gurbani say, specifically on Dasvand, Charity, Karmic Debt, etc. I am not against helping the needy and less fortunate, however we must have some clarity here and not get washed away in our emotions when we hear some lines of gurbani being spoken sweetly, all designed to rob you. Please Note - Sources and references must be given. No made up stories which are designed to make your feel guilty.

What a Shame. This guy was hounded by those stupid presenters at Sangat TV (kulwant singh desi, who forgot who got him out of jail when he was arrested in India) and that so called Dr at panjab radio, he talks like he has done alot for the panth.. What a shame Sad day indeed and shame on us, who talk, but do not walk the walk

our foes call him a terrorist...what matters is what YOU think of him, not other people.....

thats interesting........I wonder what others have to say here.

so you're saying Kesri Lehar have it wrong, it should be Basanti Lehar.... why such emphasis on colours???? I am not questioning, please can some learned person here describe the reasons why we have various colours