singh1986

Just had this poster passed around amongst Sangat in the Midlands and Up North... Not sure how this has been allowed to happen and continue? Are there any actual active Panthic Sikhs or groups in Southall, Slough, Wembley, Ilford, Hounslow etc? Why the wait for a protest? Why are we not just going in as previous dialogue methods have failed? Any context would be great as we had a similar issue in Birmingham once and nobody waited for an organised protest. We are looking to drive up tonight, but not entirely sure why local Sikhs are waiting?

I heard recently that he has now converted back to Buddhism because of the discrimination he faced from punjabi community? Very sad if this is true.

I noticed a growing number of 3rd/4th generation kids who grew up going to Ravidasia Gurdwaras and Sangat converting on mass. All my peers that I went to school with wouldn't call themselves Sikhs, but then were ridiculed even by Goray for not knowing what religion if anything they were... Some called themselves Hindu but a sister from the same family would be Sikh. This confusion I feel has been exploited by Muslims, Christians etc who have targeted people who practice something that has no real structure, interpretations or offical name? It's literally different from each Bhawan to Gurdwara to Centre/Temple. I'd rather these people stay somewhat connected to Sikhi, but it looks like thier families and parents and continuing in this trajectory of separating from Sikhi but take thier kids into no man's land with no logic or sense. Which then gets exploited by the Dawah givers who quote bani back to them and point out how thier parents and community themselves don't follow the scriptures they attach themselves too, or have any real history as a organised religion. Surely, those Ravidasia people living in the UK atleast can see what this is doing to thier kids? When you even look at thier sangat, it's older people, hardly any youth because I genuinely think they don't want to associate with the Bhavans (or whatever they call them). Anyone from the community on this forum? Where is your head at? Surely you see what I see?

The fact he killed 3 and fought off another armed with knives and hammers.... the court heard he went "Bruce lee" style and 3 were dead within 13 seconds all proven to be self defence. Does he teach shaster vidya? Where has he learnt it from? https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8849961/Indian-overstayer-person-UK-face-no-charges-self-defence-triple-killing.html

I used to have the same perception about moving back to Punjab however when other relatives have done it or gone for a few months there are harsh realities which they struggled to.cope with. What career opportunities are better? Firstly you have to think about it from a historical perspective, had your family stayed would they have survived the extra judicial killings of the Punjab Police and widespread murder? I am presuming your family has some keshdhari Sikhs? My Thaya and Chacha were both taken from thier homes in the early 90s and we still dont know what happened to them. Events like that could easily happen again and then you will have to contend with widespread State racism and discrimination. However, moving back to Punjab today as it is you have to put yourself in the position of a citizen of Punjab. God forbidden you need to get married or do anything that needs officially being registering etc... you will need to become comfortable with paying back handers, slow govt bureaucracy and endless paperwork. I am also presuming you would want to go college/uni or get a job? Well if you dont meet the caste quotas you have no chance. The "upper castes" will probably never get accepted for govt jobs etc. The caste system is deeply embedded in Hindu India. For private jobs a requisite seems to be speak fluent Hindi and dont even think about having a dhumulla or open beard (if your male). Then you have the chances of a riot/govt shut down or some other effigy burning mob that happen regularly in urban India (that's if you were thinking of opening a business). Along with that comes with political turmoil every so often that hit the cities more, whether that is Ram Raheem supporters rioting or when the Radboswamis get agitated or because some young girl got raped. Living in a growing Hindu Fascist state is not going to be easy and it will hit rural Sikhs. You have to also consider issues such as rape, high death rate on Punjab roads in comparison to UK, drug abuse and bringing your family up in this environment. My family in India avoid any roads after 7pm as after dark there is a high possibility of fatalities. Also in rural areas of Punjab the level of pollution is much higher than urban areas in the UK. Your spending power will be less should you ever wish to move abroad again or visit family. Working in June/July heat is tough, even in an office job or farming. If your intention is rural farming if you are planning to work then most Punjabis need to realise the water table in Punjab is significantly decreasing year on year... and the Indian Govt will always divert water to Delhi/Haryana. I have seen predictions of the agricultural industries in Punjab starting to fail within 20/30 years. For me going to Punjab on a Holiday and living and working there is very different! Most rural Sikh Punjabis use cheap labour from Bihar to do the heavy lifting with agricultural work. Personally I'm always surprised to see how idle they are in my family. I do agree Punjab has significantly changed over the past 5 years even, but ultimately it's still full of corruption, bureaucracy and an illiberal democracy governed by Hindu Nationalists. It's too volatile of a place to emigrate too.

Does Aum/Om manter have any relevance in Sikhi? I have recently been drawn to listening to it play in the background as I'm working... just a simple human voice. I cant seem to find anything Sikhi related with just a voice with very little sound effects, music or instruments? I have noticed in some Hindu Households they are playing various Manters at low frequency. Do we have any Audios out there of a similar ilk? Example -

I've noticed that alot of Muslim actors are having to play overtly Hindu roles to stay relevant and liked within Indian Media. Salman Khan is prime example of this... pretty much very film he makes now he plays a Hindu character and his films have been mega hits at the Indian box office. But in regards to Maratha/Sikh relationship it highlights the lack of cooperation within modern day India. Ultimately why would the Sikhs trust Marathis, they put Adina Beg in power over Sikh territories which the Sikhs helped them to conquer. Also in later years Marathis proped up the failing Mughal Empire and supported small proxy wars agaisnt Sikh Misls. Its interesting to note after the 3rd Anglo Marathi War... the Marathis seeked refugee with Maharaja Ranjit Singh. I think Bollywood will struggle to make a historical accurate film under the trend of Hindi extremism. It's often forgotten by them how many Mandirs Marathis sacked and looted to fund thier campaigns. For example those protected by Tipu Sultan

I wanted to understand the relationship and history of these 2 Sikh Contemporaries. I have heard of various stories that they didnt get along issues such as the creation of Bandai Khalsa and that a leaf was dropped in the sarovar of Harmander Sahib that would decide who the real Guru of the Sikhs was... is that true? Heard about Baba Deep Singh Ji abandoning Baba Banda Singh Bahadur as the Mughals were closing in... But then again I heard they never joined forces as Baba Deep Singh Ji didnt agree with the way Baba Banda Singh Bahadur conquered Mughal areas. Not sure what is true. Is there any fact based historical accounts of what happened?

I just wanted to enquire whether there was any meanings or reasons for the designs (mosaics) we see around the parikarma of Darbar Sanib? I believe one is called the flower of life? Or Any other historical Gurdwaray in India. Who chose them?

Imagine if a black or white Sikh was reading this thread lol. A lot of generalisations. There are hundreds of different ethnic/cultural/national groups amoungst black/white people. All have different schools of thought, Faith and History. We got to be careful not to make sweeping statements.

I used to think it was just black cats and Indian Govt dressing people up as Sikhs to Kill Hindus. But then recently I met a Kharkhu Singhs family and they confirmed that some Sikhs in these groups were so angry and because they were getting no support from fellow Hindu Punjabis they resorted to violence against local Hindus. BUT it was really low level and these Sikhs were often dealt with by other Sikhs or the Indian authorities themselves. It eventually got worse towards the end of the 80's as there was no control over youth joining the Khalistan movement. HOWEVER, Nothing in comparison to what black cats were actually doing and miniscule in comparison to how many Sikhs lost their lives. Either way those who killed innocent Hindus where dealt with... And killers of innocent Sikhs walk free.

Bump

I have heard the term Nanaksar and GNNSJ used interchangeably. I was wondering whether they represent the same group, view points and Sants. In addition, what has been the opinion of Nanaksar Sikhs regarding the Khalistan movement and the problems in Punjab in the 80s? Do they support the cause of people like Bhai Surat Singh?

In my opinion: I would not vote Conservative because David Cameron refused to have an independent enquiry into the role of British Government in operation Blue Star and has refused to release more classified information which could prove the guilt of the Indian government. He also refused to apologise for Jallanwalla Bagh and just "regretted" the incident... Therefore for me he has let down Sikhs the most as a PM especially when Professor Bhullar/Kesri Lehar protests where happening. Sikhs were just simply ignored. Add the fact we were also ignored by Tories when they put the Gandhi statue up... So for me Tories have done absolutely nothing for Sikhs and I can't believe any Sikh will want to vote for them. I won't vote UKIP because lets face it... They are a party of closet racists. Everyone knows it, they have BNP, EDL, Britain First, NF, white supremacists type people amongst their ranks and campaigning for them. And a huge disproportionate amount of racist sound bites come from their candidates. They don't want to increase minimum wage but even scrap it. Stop foreign aid... (Which is only 0.7% of budget...Most candidates are Tory defectors. They want to get rid of maternity/paternity leave and remove race discrimination law, remove Human Rights Act - so a Sikh could be deported to India for terrorism charges even though there might be risk of torture, unfair trial. Thereafter I think it depends on ur local MP and what they stand for... Some Labour/Lib Dem MPs have been fantastic in supporting Sikh causes. Parmjit Singh Gill for example the Lib Dem candidate teamed up with Lord Singh pushing for some sort of enquiry when British involvement in Operation Blue Star happened. Tom Watson (Labour -West Brom) was one of few MPs that bought it up in Parliament and challenged the coward David Cameron to conduct an Independent Enquiry, which he never did. On the other hand you have Labour MPs like Keith Vaz who also pushed for Gandhi Statue in his constituency and just stops short of calling Sikhs extremists, along with Sharma from Southall... Why do Sikhs keep voting them in!?!?! I think Sikhs need to really think about whether your MP has actually been there and supported Sikhs.. look at their policies and where they remained quiet. These past 5 years have been huge for Sikhs in terms of UK politics... Now it's time to punish those that never gave us any support.

TBH It happens so much now. I think those Sikhs that want the Hukamnamma to respected have lost the battle. The amount of protests and meetings Sikhs attend with Committee wallay... They promise not to do it again and then its back to square 1. The committee does it again. Nobody respects the Hukamnamma... you even have usually devout Sikhs willingly pushing the agenda if inter-faith marriage. Leicester has a big problem... All Gurdwaray, don't do the checks... Had to deal with a Gujji guy boast about his cousin marrying a Sikh girl and the "gyanis" and "Khalibans" couldn't do anything about it!!! Sad state of affairs.