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Long live the khalsa

Gurbani Quotes

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waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

Sangat ji this topic is for everyone possible to post up as many shabads and quotes from gurbani about the prohibiting of meat alcohol tobbacco etc so that wenever someone asks why dont sikhs eat meat or why dont sikhs smoke, it can be justified with gurbani

wiked if everyone could contribute so moorakhs like me can understand maharaj better and get to know them blush.gif

Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh :e:

bhul chuk maaf karni ji

:TH: :TH: :TH:

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also the prohibiting of cutting hair, thanks

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slok mÚ 3 ]

salok ma 3 ||

Shalok, Third Mehl:

mwxsu BirAw AwixAw mwxsu BirAw Awie ]

maanas bhariaa aaniaa maanas bhariaa aae ||

One person brings a full bottle, and another fills his cup.

ijqu pIqY miq dUir hoie brlu pvY ivic Awie ]

jith peethai math dhoor hoe baral pavai vich aae ||

Drinking the wine, his intelligence departs, and madness enters his mind;

Awpxw prwieAw n pCwxeI Ksmhu Dky Kwie ]

aapanaa paraaeiaa n pashhaanee khasamahu dhhakae khaae ||

he cannot distinguish between his own and others, and he is struck down by his Lord and Master.

ijqu pIqY Ksmu ivsrY drgh imlY sjwie ]

jith peethai khasam visarai dharageh milai sajaae ||

Drinking it, he forgets his Lord and Master, and he is punished in the Court of the Lord.

JUTw mdu mUil n pIceI jy kw pwir vswie ]

jhoot(h)aa madh mool n peechee jae kaa paar vasaae ||

Do not drink the false wine at all, if it is in your power.

nwnk ndrI scu mdu pweIAY siqguru imlY ijsu Awie ]

naanak nadharee sach madh paaeeai sathigur milai jis aae ||

O Nanak, the True Guru comes and meets the mortal; by His Grace, one obtains the True Wine.

sdw swihb kY rMig rhY mhlI pwvY Qwau ]1]

sadhaa saahib kai ra(n)g rehai mehalee paavai thhaao ||1||

He shall dwell forever in the Love of the Lord Master, and obtain a seat in the Mansion of His Presence. ||1||

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Commandments from sri Guru Granth Sahib JI:

Ang (page) 1103

You kill animals (living beings) and call it a righteous action (halal). Tell me brother what do you call an unrighteous action?

You call yourself the most excellent sage (person of great wisdom) then who do you call a butcher?

Ang (page) 140

If ones clothes are stained with blood, the garment becomes polluted, those who consume blood in the form of flesh (meat) how can their conscious be pure?

Ang723

The world eats dead carcasses, living by neglect and greed like goblins, or a beast, they kill and eat forbidden carcasses of meat. So control your urges or else you will be seized by the lord and thrown into the torture of hell.

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the meat isue again... why do we talk about this stuff when their is no debate?

I'm going to report this post...

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d_oh.gif

Thank you for the quotes, they're awesome

I don't see any reason for this thread to be deleted - LLTK is just asking for some quotes from the Guru Granth Sahib. :lol:

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Commandments from sri Guru Granth Sahib JI:

Ang (page) 1103

You kill animals (living beings) and call it a righteous action (halal). Tell me brother what do you call an unrighteous action?

You call yourself the most excellent sage (person of great wisdom) then who do you call a butcher?

Ang (page) 140

If ones clothes are stained with blood, the garment becomes polluted, those who consume blood in the form of flesh (meat) how can their conscious be pure?

Ang723

The world eats dead carcasses, living by neglect and greed like goblins, or a beast, they kill and eat forbidden carcasses of meat. So control your urges or else you will be seized by the lord and thrown into the torture of hell.

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh

The discussion on meat is completly fruitless for me. I have no interest in discussing if emat is okay or not, however the quotes above do not speak about eating meat. Again I am not saying you can eat meat, I'm sayign the tuks of Gurbani have been misinterpreted.

Ang (page) 140

If ones clothes are stained with blood, the garment becomes polluted, those who consume blood in the form of flesh (meat) how can their conscious be pure?

This has nothing to do with meat. Have you purposly mistranslated the pangtee to suit you.

Here is STTMs translation -

Shalok, First Mehl: If one's clothes are stained with blood, the garment becomes polluted. Those who suck the blood of human beings-how can their consciousness be pure? O Nanak, chant the Name of God, with heart-felt devotion. Everything else is just a pompous worldly show, and the practice of false deeds. ||1||

blood of HUMAN BEINGS. What does that mean? This is the same thing as the Sakhi of Guru Nanak Dev Ji pouring blood out of one, and milk out of one roti. This Shabad is talking about 'haram di kamay', i.e. having an inhonest income and using other people.

ਅਰਥ: ਜੇ ਜਾਮੇ ਨੂੰ ਲਹੂ ਲੱਗ ਜਾਵੇ, ਤਾਂ ਜਾਮਾ ਪਲੀਤ ਹੋ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ (ਤੇ ਨਮਾਜ਼ ਨਹੀਂ ਹੋ ਸਕਦੀ) (ਪਰ) ਜੋ ਬੰਦੇ ਮਨੁੱਖਾਂ ਦਾ ਲਹੂ ਪੀਂਦੇ ਹਨ (ਭਾਵ, ਧੱਕਾ ਕਰ ਕੇ ਹਰਾਮ ਦੀ ਕਮਾਈ ਖਾਂਦੇ ਹਨ) ਉਹਨਾਂ ਦਾ ਮਨ ਕਿਵੇਂ ਪਾਕ (ਸਾਫ਼) ਰਹਿ ਸਕਦਾ ਹੈ (ਤੇ ਪਲੀਤ ਮਨ ਨਾਲ ਨਮਾਜ਼ ਪੜ੍ਹੀ ਕਿਵੇਂ ਕਬੂਲ ਹੈ)? ਹੇ ਨਾਨਕ! ਰੱਬ ਦਾ ਨਾਮ ਮੂੰਹੋਂ ਸਾਫ਼ ਦਿਲ ਨਾਲ ਲੈ (ਇਸ ਤੋਂ ਬਿਨਾ) ਹੋਰ ਕੰਮ ਦੁਨੀਆ ਵਾਲੇ ਵਿਖਾਵੇ ਹਨ। ਇਹ ਤਾਂ ਤੁਸੀ ਕੂੜੇ ਕੰਮ ਹੀ ਕਰਦੇ ਹੋ ॥੧॥

Have you purposly mistranslated the pangtee? Because no-one else has translated it the way you have...

There is absolutly no other mention of the word 'blood' on that ang of Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

Ang723

The world eats dead carcasses, living by neglect and greed like goblins, or a beast, they kill and eat forbidden carcasses of meat. So control your urges or else you will be seized by the lord and thrown into the torture of hell.

Again mistranslation.

ਅਰਥ: ਹੇ ਮਨੁੱਖ! ਜੋ ਕੁਝ ਤੂੰ ਅੱਖੀਂ ਵੇਖਦਾ ਹੈਂ ਨਾਸਵੰਤ ਹੈ। ਪਰ ਦੁਨੀਆ (ਮਾਇਆ ਦੇ) ਲਾਲਚ ਵਿਚ (ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਵਲੋਂ) ਭੁੱਲੀ ਹੋਈ ਹੈ, ਤੇ, ਹਰਾਮ ਖਾਂਦੀ ਰਹਿੰਦੀ ਹੈ (ਪਰਾਇਆ ਹੱਕ ਖੋਂਹਦੀ ਰਹਿੰਦੀ ਹੈ)। ਰਹਾਉ। ਹੇ ਭਾਈ! ਚੇਤਨ ਜੋਤਿ ਅਤੇ ਅਚੇਤਨ ਮਿੱਟੀ ਮਿਲਾ ਕੇ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਨੇ ਇਹ ਜਗਤ ਇਹ ਜਹਾਨ ਬਣਾ ਦਿੱਤਾ ਹੈ।

Ang (page) 1103

You kill animals (living beings) and call it a righteous action (halal). Tell me brother what do you call an unrighteous action?

You call yourself the most excellent sage (person of great wisdom) then who do you call a butcher?

Looked though the entire ang, but coudn't find this. Would appreciate if you could post original Gurmukhi Pangtee.

As for as the abvoe two are concerned, you have obviously misinterpreted/mistranslated the pangtees to suit you.

I am in no way Saying Gurbani says its OK, but I'm sayign that these specific pangtees mentioned have absolutly nothing to do with the issue of meat, and thus it would mistranslating and misleading others about the pangtee. Let's not resort to such means, as this is our Guru. It is vital we understand what Guru ji is saying instead of misinterpreting and misttranslating tuks for our own belief's sake.

Again I do not want to get into the meat debate, as that is fruitless, all I'm saying is that these specific PANGTEES do not speak about meat.

Continue searching for releveant quotes, which actually DO forbid it, instead of mistranslating...

Bhull Chukk Maaf

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waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

AMg 1377

Page 1377

kbIr BWg mwCulI surw pwin jo jo pRwnI KWih ]

Kabeer, those mortals who consume marijuana, fish and wine

qIrQ brq nym kIey qy sBY rswqil jWih ]233]- no matter what pilgrimages, fasts and rituals they follow, they will all go to hell. ||233||

AMg 1374

Page 1374

kbIr KUbu Kwnw KIcrI jw mih AMimRqu lonu ]

Kabeer, the dinner of beans and rice is excellent, if it is flavored with salt.

hyrw rotI kwrny glw ktwvY kaunu ]188]

Who would cut his throat, to have meat with his bread? ||188||

bhul chuk maaf

waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

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What is the point of reading, studying and debating, if one loses his roots?

JAAAAP NAAAM MY FRIENDS FORGET THIS DEBATING

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cr brn auhW smsry[ mwtI brqn Bojn kry[

iviD inKyiD jwky mn hoeI[ AYso qhW n jwvY koeI[

Ajw mws BXo isiD rsoeI[ AvrY dwl Bwq BI hoeI[

gWv qy is`K koaU qih AwieAw[ AwigAw BeI mClI ql ilAwieAw[

siqgur qhW kIn prswd[ dXwl hoie khXo Blo suAwd[ - mihmw pRkwS

hvwlw gurmq mwrqMf – BweI kwhn isMG nwBw pMnw 763

phiq Bwq rrqXo pRQm pun AwimK Awvw[

iek ids pMkiq mih dXo qb ien drswvw[ - sUrj pRkwS (BweI sMqoK isMG, pMnw 1375)

so bYsno hY Apr Apwru[ khu nwnk ijin qjy ibkwr[ (199)

slok mÚ 1 ] pihlW mwshu inMimAw mwsY AMdir vwsu ] jIau pwie mwsu muih imilAw hfu cMmu qnu mwsu ] mwshu bwhir kiFAw mMmw mwsu igrwsu ] muhu mwsY kw jIB mwsY kI mwsY AMdir swsu ] vfw hoAw vIAwihAw Gir lY AwieAw mwsu ] mwshu hI mwsu aUpjY mwshu sBo swku ] siqguir imilAY hukmu buJIAY qW ko AwvY rwis ] Awip Cuty nh CUtIAY nwnk bcin ibxwsu ]1] (1289)

mÚ 1 ] mwsu mwsu kir mUrKu JgVy igAwnu iDAwnu nhI jwxY ] kauxu mwsu kauxu swgu khwvY iksu mih pwp smwxy ] gYNfw mwir hom jg kIey dyviqAw kI bwxy ] mwsu Coif bYis nku pkVih rwqI mwxs Kwxy ] PVu kir lokW no idKlwvih igAwnu iDAwnu nhI sUJY ] nwnk AMDy isau ikAw khIAY khY n kihAw bUJY ] AMDw soie ij AMDu kmwvY iqsu irdY is locn nwhI ] mwq ipqw kI rkqu inpMny mCI mwsu n KWhI ] iesqRI purKY jW inis mylw EQY mMDu kmwhI ] mwshu inMmy mwshu jMmy hm mwsY ky BWfy ] igAwnu iDAwnu kCu sUJY nwhI cquru khwvY pWfy ] bwhr kw mwsu mMdw suAwmI Gr kw mwsu cMgyrw ] jIA jMq siB mwshu hoey jIie lieAw vwsyrw ] ABKu BKih BKu qij Cofih AMDu gurU ijn kyrw ] mwshu inMmy mwshu jMmy hm mwsY ky BWfy ] igAwnu iDAwnu kCu sUJY nwhI cquru khwvY pWfy ] mwsu purwxI mwsu kqybéØI chu juig mwsu kmwxw ] jij kwij vIAwih suhwvY EQY mwsu smwxw ] iesqRI purK inpjih mwshu pwiqswh sulqwnW ] jy Eie idsih nrik jWdy qW aun@ kw dwnu n lYxw ] dyNdw nrik surig lYdy dyKhu eyhu iD|wxw ] Awip n bUJY lok buJwey pWfy Krw isAwxw ] pWfy qU jwxY hI nwhI ikQhu mwsu aupMnw ] qoieAhu AMnu kmwdu kpwhW qoieAhu iqRBvxu gMnw ] qoAw AwKY hau bhu ibiD hCw qoAY bhuqu ibkwrw ] eyqy rs Coif hovY sMinAwsI nwnku khY ivcwrw ]2] (1289-1290)

Nawab Kapoor Singh, Jassa Singh Ahluwalia, Sardar Churrat Singh, Hari Singh Nalwa, Shaam Singh Ataree, etc. all these sardars also ate it and created Khalsa Raaj. They never got into debates over meat. So what is the issue now. Also Gurbani is clear if one understands with open mind and heart and with complete faith on Guru Ji. Lets keep the personal views aside and put Gurmat first.

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Found a great reply to this at jatt.com

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"To resolve this issue our Guru's told meat eating Sikhs to eat Jhatka, or meat killed in one blow."

Jhatka is a cultural practice and has nothing to do with sikhs. I want to see a quote from the GGS ji regarding this point because the method of killing with one blow was said to be used as a last resort by guru ji.

Not once did any of the Gurus eat for pleasure. Guru Gobind Singh ji killed a horse once to feed his army as no other food was available, time was approaching and moghuls were drawing closer. The Guru's had pure souls they never consumed meat simply for the taste of it. To imply that is an insult. Guru Gobind Singh ji's connection with the almighty was so pure that he was able to bestow the animals soul with mukhti [salvation] so it can carry on with its spiritual journey towards God in it's afterlife. Can we grant this blessing? No.

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I’m an Amritdhari Singh with flowing beard yet I eat meat. So does my dad (he is amritdhari), my granddad, and my great dad etc.

No one eats for pleasure. We eat to survive and operate at optimum level. AS a Sant-Siphai, and an amritdhari i am called to run at maximum physical, mental and spiritual levels. This therefore, for me includes meat in my diet.

Your argument goes into emotion. Some Guru’s did eat meat, and some didn’t. The Bedi’s and Sodhi’s descended from the Guru’s till eat meat today. This mukhti stuff is rubbish, cos Guruji woz not God. Only God can give mukhti. Guruji never tried to play God and give mukhti. Guruji = teacher, not a Mukhta.

Dasam Granth says

Quote:

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SECTION

Here begins the Description of the Magnificence of Authority:

CHAUPAI

When I obtained the position of responsibility, I performed the religious acts to the best of my ability.

I went hunting various kinds of animals in the forest and killed bears, nilgais (blue bulls) and elks.1.

Then I left my home and went to place named Paonta.

I enjoyed my stay on the banks of Kalindri (Yamuna) and saw amusement of various kind2.

;

There I killed may lions, nilgais and bears.

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These animals were hunted for military training, helping villagers and food.

Jhatka has everything to to with Sikhism cos, Sikhism is based on Gurmatta, or a joint decision. If a joint decision was taken on accepting Jhatka, who are you to say it is cultural? It is a joint decision taken by the supreme Sikh authority the Akaal Takht, therefore it is a Sikh decision. You vegetarians are always trying to force your decisions on the rest of us. It makes me sick.

Quote:

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Importantly, guru Har Rai was exceptionally known for his unique combination of powerfull strength and sweetness. He was one of the mightiest hunters but he too never killed the animals he chased and caught. They were taken to his yard and looked after very well. The Guru's have been blessing and granting mukhti to those souls whose karmic circle needed breaking, this included; Suggen thug- who killed people, kaudda Rakhsh- who indulged in cannibal activities and even butchers because these people needed saving.

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Yeah some Guru’s ate meat and some didn’t. There are loads of Sakhi’s about this.

Quote:

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If one is on a vegetarian diet and yet uses this to boost the ego then this is an ignorant way of living. On the other hand eating meat only, will not enable one to realise God either. The bottom line is living as a vegetarian as part of your rehit along with Naam/simran is very beneficial in regards to ones spirituality. For instance, Baba Deep Singh ji was a vegetarian and lived on a diet of unripe Ber (a tropical fruit) and hand wrote four volumes of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, which were placed at four of the Takhats. At the age of 87, he went to war and defeated our oppressors.

Fresh fruit and veg was good enough for Baba deep singh ji who fought bravely even after death whilst holding his head in his arm on the battle

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Vegetarian life has nothing to do with spirituality because the Jyot of incarnation can go from animal, to plant and even rock. I read this on another site.

Pg 176 Sri Guru Granth Sahib

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ga-orhee gu-aarayree mehlaa 5.

Gauree Gwaarayree, Fifth Mehl:

ka-ee janam bha-ay keet patangaa.

In so many incarnations, you were a worm and an insect;

ka-ee janam gaj meen kurangaa.

in so many incarnations, you were an elephant, a fish and a deer.

ka-ee janam pankhee sarap ho-i-o.

In so many incarnations, you were a bird and a snake.

ka-ee janam haivar barikh jo-i-o. ||1||

In so many incarnations, you were yoked as an ox and a horse. ||1||

mil jagdees milan kee baree-aa.

Meet the Lord of the Universe - now is the time to meet Him.

chirankaal ih dayh sanjaree-aa. ||1|| rahaa-o.

After so very long, this human body was fashioned for you. ||1||Pause||

ka-ee janam sail gir kari-aa.

In so many incarnations, you were rocks and mountains;

ka-ee janam garabh hir khari-aa.

in so many incarnations, you were aborted in the womb;

ka-ee janam saakh kar upaa-i-aa.

in so many incarnations, you developed branches and leaves;

lakh cha-oraaseeh jon bharmaa-i-aa. ||2||

you wandered through 8.4 million incarnations. ||2||

saaDhsang bha-i-o janam paraapat.

Through the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, you obtained this human life.

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So this this claptrap that meat is less spiritual than plant is a made up stuff by plant eaters who wanna force their opinions on others and say that it is Sikhism.

Baba Deep Singh never forced his ideas on others and sat in Sangat with Jhatka eating Singh’s.

Quote:

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Furthermore, being vegetarian is a lot safer than consuming rotten corpses of animals because those who do are in danger of taking on mad cow disease and its chicken, fish, pig, and turkey variants [bird flu] not forgetting that salmonella, E. coli, campylobacter, heart disease, strokes, high blood pressure, and cancer are additional dangers too!

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Rubbish. I am studying medicine and I know a little about biology. Some plants and beans actively try and poison you to prevent being eaten. You can get diseases as easily from vegetables as u can from meat.

Eaten too much dairy stuff, eating too much period gives you diseases. It’s a myth that Vegetarians are more healthy. It is a fact that those who eat healthy (meat or vegetable), are more healthy.

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For sake of clarification I will provide actual sentances from the Guru Granth Sahib ji that clearly acknowledge the issue of eating the flesh of another being:

Those mortals who consume marijuana, flesh and wine - no matter what pilgrimages, fasts and rituals they follow, they will all go to hell. (SGGS p1337)

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A misquote and taken out of context. Maachlee = fish not flesh. Also flesh is not necessarily meat, in the consumed sense.

The sentence says :

Quote:

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mukat padaarath paa-ee-ai thaak na avghat ghaat. ||231||

He obtains the treasure of liberation, and the difficult road to the Lord is not blocked. ||231||

kabeer ayk gharhee aaDhee gharee aaDhee hooN tay aaDh.

Kabeer, whether is is for an hour, half an hour, or half of that,

bhagtan saytee gostay jo keenay so laabh. ||232||

whatever it is, it is worthwhile to speak with the Holy. ||232||

kabeer bhaaNg maachhulee suraa paan jo jo paraanee khaaNhi.

Kabeer, those mortals who consume marijuana, fish and wine -

tirath barat naym kee-ay tay sabhai rasaatal jaaNhi. ||233||

no matter what pilgrimages, fasts and rituals they follow, they will all go to hell. ||233||

neechay lo-in kar raha-o lay saajan ghat maahi.

Kabeer, I keep my eyes lowered, and enshrine my Friend within my heart.

sabh ras khayla-o pee-a sa-o kisee lakhaava-o naahi. ||234||

I enjoy all pleasures with my Beloved, but I do not let anyone else know. ||234||

aath jaam cha-usath gharee tu-a nirkhat rahai jee-o.

Twenty-four hours a day, every hour, my soul continues to look to You, O Lord.

neechay lo-in ki-o kara-o sabh ghat daykh-a-u pee-o. ||235||

Why should I keep my eyes lowered? I see my Beloved in every heart. ||235||

sun sakhee pee-a meh jee-o basai jee-a meh basai ke pee-o.

Listen, O my companions: my soul dwells in my Beloved, and my Beloved dwells in my soul.

jee-o pee-o boojha-o nahee ghat meh jee-o ke pee-o. ||236||

I realize that there is no difference between my soul and my Beloved; I cannot tell whether my soul or my Beloved dwells in my heart. ||236||

kabeer baaman guroo hai jagat kaa bhagtan kaa gur naahi.

Kabeer, the Brahmin may be the guru of the world, but he is not the Guru of the devotees.

arajh urajh kai pach moo-aa chaara-o baydahu maahi. ||237||

He rots and dies in the perplexities of the four Vedas. ||237||

har hai khaaNd rayt meh bikhree haathee chunee na jaa-ay.

The Lord is like sugar, scattered in the sand; the elephant cannot pick it up.

kahi kabeer gur bhalee bujhaa-ee keetee ho-ay kai khaa-ay. ||238||

Says Kabeer, the Guru has given me this sublime understanding: become an ant, and feed on it. ||238||

kabeer ja-o tuhi saaDh piramm kee sees kaat kar go-ay.

Kabeer, if you desire to play the game of love with the Lord, then cut off your head, and make it into a ball.

khaylat khaylat haal kar jo kichh ho-ay ta ho-ay. ||239||

Lose yourself in the play of it, and then whatever will be, will be. ||239||

kabeer ja-o tuhi saaDh piramm kee paakay saytee khayl.

Kabeer, if you desire to play the game of love with the Lord, play it with someone with committment.

kaachee sarsa-uN payl kai naa khal bha-ee na tayl. ||240||

Pressing the unripe mustard seeds produces neither oil nor flour. ||240||

dhooNdhat doleh anDh gat ar cheenat naahee sant.

Searching, the mortal stumbles like a blind person, and does not recognize the Saint.

kahi naamaa ki-o paa-ee-ai bin bhagtahu bhagvant. ||241||

Says Naam Dayv, how can one obtain the Lord God, without His devotee? ||241||

har so heeraa chhaad kai karahi aan kee aas.

Forsaking the Diamond of the Lord, the mortals put their hopes in another.

tay nar dojak jaahigay sat bhaakhai ravidaas. ||242||

Those people shall go to hell; Ravi Daas speaks the Truth. ||242||

kabeer ja-o garihu karahi ta Dharam kar naahee ta kar bairaag.

Kabeer, if you live the householder's life, then practice righteousness; otherwise, you might as well retire from the world.

bairaagee banDhan karai taa ko bado abhaag. ||243||

If someone renounces the world, and then gets involved in worldly entanglements, he shall suffer terrible misfortune. ||243||

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What this iz actually talking about is worldly entanglement. The rich who used to induldge in delicacies like fish, wine and marijuana were condemened.

Quote:

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You kill living beings and worship lifeless things, at your very last moment, You will suffer terrible pain. (SGGS p332)

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More vegetarian spin. God you guys are unbelievable.

Quote:

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ik-oNkaar satgur parsaad.

One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:

jeevat pitar na maanai ko-oo moo-ayN siraaDh karaahee.

He does not honor his ancestors while they are alive, but he holds feasts in their honor after they have died.

pitar bhee bapuray kaho ki-o paavahi ka-oo-aa kookar khaahee. ||1||

Tell me, how can his poor ancestors receive what the crows and the dogs have eaten up? ||1||

mo ka-o kusal bataavhu ko-ee.

If only someone would tell me what real happiness is!

kusal kusal kartay jag binsai kusal bhee kaisay ho-ee. ||1|| rahaa-o.

Speaking of happiness and joy, the world is perishing. How can happiness be found? ||1||Pause||

maatee kay kar dayvee dayvaa tis aagai jee-o dayhee.

Making gods and goddesses out of clay, people sacrifice living beings to them.

aisay pitar tumaaray kahee-ahi aapan kahi-aa na layhee. ||2||

Such are your dead ancestors, who cannot ask for what they want. ||2||

sarjee-o kaateh nirjee-o poojeh ant kaal ka-o bhaaree.

You murder living beings and worship lifeless things; at your very last moment, you shall suffer in terrible pain.

raam naam kee gat nahee jaanee bhai doobay sansaaree. ||3||

You do not know the value of the Lord's Name; you shall drown in the terrifying world-ocean. ||3||

dayvee dayvaa poojeh doleh paarbarahm nahee jaanaa.

You worship gods and goddesses, but you do not know the Supreme Lord God.

kahat kabeer akul nahee chayti-aa bikhi-aa si-o laptaanaa. ||4||1||45||

Says Kabeer, you have not remembered the Lord who has no ancestors; you are clinging to your corrupt ways. ||4||1||45||

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Actually Kabir is having a dig at Pandits (who were vegetarians), but used to give a Bali or sacrifice of animals to their Gods. Read the entire Ang. Nothing to do with meat. Everything to do with false religious practice. Sikhs are forbidden from eating ritually slaughtered meat anyway.

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Do not say that the Vedas are false, false are those who do not reflect. If in all is one god, then why does one kill the hen ? (SGGS p1350)

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More spin by vegetarian fanatics.

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parbhaatee.

Prabhaatee:

bayd katayb kahhu mat jhoothay jhoothaa jo na bichaarai.

Do not say that the Vedas, the Bible and the Koran are false. Those who do not contemplate them are false.

ja-o sabh meh ayk khudaa-ay kahat ha-o ta-o ki-o murgee maarai. ||1||

You say that the One Lord is in all, so why do you kill chickens? ||1||

mulaaN kahhu ni-aa-o khudaa-ee.

O Mullah, tell me: is this God's Justice?

tayray man kaa bharam na jaa-ee. ||1|| rahaa-o.

The doubts of your mind have not been dispelled. ||1||Pause||

pakar jee-o aani-aa dayh binaasee maatee ka-o bismil kee-aa.

You seize a living creature, and then bring it home and kill its body; you have killed only the clay.

jot saroop anaahat laagee kaho halaal ki-aa kee-aa. ||2||

The light of the soul passes into another form. So tell me, what have you killed? ||2||

ki-aa ujoo paak kee-aa muhu Dho-i-aa ki-aa maseet sir laa-i-aa.

And what good are your purifications? Why do you bother to wash your face? And why do you bother to bow your head in the mosque?

ja-o dil meh kapat nivaaj gujaarahu ki-aa haj kaabai jaa-i-aa. ||3||

Your heart is full of hypocrisy; what good are your prayers or your pilgrimage to Mecca? ||3||

tooN naapaak paak nahee soojhi-aa tis kaa maram na jaani-aa.

You are impure; you do not understand the Pure Lord. You do not know His Mystery.

kahi kabeer bhisat tay chookaa dojak si-o man maani-aa. ||4||4||

Says Kabeer, you have missed out on paradise; your mind is set on hell. ||4||4||

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This time Kabir ji is having a dig at Mullahs who would ritually sacrifice chickens. Not having a dig at meat eaters.

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Bhagat Kabir says, that the best food is eating kichree (daal/lentils) where nectar sweet is the salt. You eat hunted meat, but which animal is willing to have their head cut ? (SGGS p137

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Even more spin and selective quoting. Lets put this in context.

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;

oraa gar paanee bha-i-aa jaa-ay mili-o dhal kool. ||177||

The hail-stone has melted into water, and flowed into the ocean. ||177||

;

kabeeraa Dhoor sakayl kai puree-aa baaNDhee dayh.

Kabeer, the body is a pile of dust, collected and packed together.

divas chaar ko paykhnaa ant khayh kee khayh. ||178||

It is a show which lasts for only a few days, and then dust returns to dust. ||178||

kabeer sooraj chaaNd kai udai bha-ee sabh dayh.

Kabeer, bodies are like the rising and setting of the sun and the moon.

gur gobind kay bin milay palat bha-ee sabh khayh. ||179||

Without meeting the Guru, the Lord of the Universe, they are all reduced to dust again. ||179||

jah anbha-o tah bhai nahee jah bha-o tah har naahi.

Where the Fearless Lord is, there is no fear; where there is fear, the Lord is not there.

2405;

kahi-o kabeer bichaar kai sant sunhu man maahi. ||180||

Kabeer speaks after careful consideration; hear this, O Saints, in your minds. ||180||

;

kabeer jinahu kichhoo jaani-aa nahee tin sukh need bihaa-ay.

Kabeer, those who do not know anything, pass their lives in peaceful sleep.

hamhu jo boojhaa boojhnaa pooree paree balaa-ay. ||181||

But I have understood the riddle; I am faced with all sorts of troubles. ||181||

laagee chot maramm kee rahi-o kabeeraa tha-ur. ||182||

Struck by the Mystery of God, Kabeer remains silent. ||182||

kabeer chot suhaylee sayl kee laagat lay-ay usaas.

Kabeer, the stroke of a lance is easy to bear; it takes away the breath.

chot sahaarai sabad kee taas guroo mai daas. ||183||

But one who endures the stroke of the Word of the Shabad is the Guru, and I am his slave. ||183||

kabeer mulaaN munaaray ki-aa chadheh saaN-ee na bahraa ho-ay.

Kabeer: O Mullah, why do you climb to the top of the minaret? The Lord is not hard of hearing.

jaa kaaran tooN baaNg deh dil hee bheetar jo-ay. ||184||

Look within your own heart for the One, for whose sake you shout your prayers. ||184||

saykh sabooree baahraa ki-aa haj kaabay jaa-ay.

Why does the Shaykh bother to go on pilgrimage to Mecca, if he is not content with himself?

kabeer jaa kee dil saabat nahee taa ka-o kahaaN khudaa-ay. ||185||

Kabeer, one whose heart is not healthy and whole - how can he attain his Lord? ||185||

kabeer alah kee kar bandagee jih simrat dukh jaa-ay.

Kabeer, worship the Lord Allah; meditating in remembrance on Him, troubles and pains depart.

dil meh saaN-ee pargatai bujhai balantee naaN-ay. ||186||

The Lord shall be revealed within your own heart, and the burning fire within shall be extinguished by His Name. ||186||

kabeer joree kee-ay julam hai kahtaa naa-o halaal.

Kabeer, to use force is tyranny, even if you call it legal.

daftar laykhaa maaNgee-ai tab ho-igo ka-un havaal. ||187||

When your account is called for in the Court of the Lord, what will your condition be then? ||187||

kabeer khoob khaanaa kheechree jaa meh amrit lon.

Kabeer, the dinner of beans and rice is excellent, if it is flavored with salt.

hayraa rotee kaarnay galaa kataavai ka-un. ||188||

Who would cut his throat, to have meat with his bread? ||188||

kabeer gur laagaa tab jaanee-ai mitai moh tan taap.

Kabeer, one is known to have been touched by the Guru, only when his emotional attachment and physical illnesses are eradicated.

harakh sog daajhai nahee tab har aapeh aap. ||189||

He is not burned by pleasure or pain, and so he becomes the Lord Himself. ||189||

kabeer raam kahan meh bhayd hai taa meh ayk bichaar.

Kabeer, it does make a difference, how you chant the Lord's Name, 'Raam'. This is something to consider.

so-ee raam sabhai kaheh so-ee ka-utakhaar. ||190||

Everyone uses the same word for the son of Dasrath and the Wondrous Lord. ||190||

बिबेक ॥

kabeer raamai raam kaho kahibay maahi bibayk.

Kabeer, use the word 'Raam', only to speak of the All-pervading Lord. You must make that distinction.

ayk anaykeh mil ga-i-aa ayk samaanaa ayk. ||191||

One 'Raam' is pervading everywhere, while the other is contained only in himself. ||191||

kabeer jaa ghar saaDh na sayvee-ah har kee sayvaa naahi.

Kabeer, those houses in which neither the Holy nor the Lord are served -

tay ghar marhat saarkhay bhoot baseh tin maahi. ||192||

those houses are like cremation grounds; demons dwell within them. ||192||

kabeer goongaa hoo-aa baavraa bahraa hoo-aa kaan.

Kabeer, I have become mute, insane and deaf.

paavhu tay pingul bha-i-aa maari-aa satgur baan. ||193||

I am crippled - the True Guru has pierced me with His Arrow. ||193||

kabeer satgur soormay baahi-aa baan jo ayk.

Kabeer, the True Guru, the Spiritual Warrior, has shot me with His Arrow.

laagat hee bhu-ay gir pari-aa paraa karayjay chhayk. ||194||

As soon as it struck me, I fell to the ground, with a hole in my heart. ||194||

kabeer nirmal boond akaas kee par ga-ee bhoom bikaar.

Kabeer, the pure drop of water falls from the sky, onto the dirty ground.

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It is plain for even a FOOL to see that this ang is about tyranny and exploitation. Not Meat.

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Avarice is a dog, falsehood the sweeper and cheating the eating of meat.

(Guru Nanak Dev Ji. Sri Raag p15)

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Unbelievable amount of misquoting by you. Let me put this in its right phrase.

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sireeraag mehlaa 1.

Siree Raag, First Mehl:

lab kutaa koorh choohrhaa thag khaaDhaa murdaar.

Greed is a dog; falsehood is a filthy street-sweeper. Cheating is eating a rotting carcass.

par nindaa par mal mukh suDhee agan kroDh chandaal.

Slandering others is putting the filth of others into your own mouth. The fire of anger is the outcaste who burns dead bodies at the crematorium.

ras kas aap salaahnaa ay karam mayray kartaar. ||1||

I am caught in these tastes and flavors, and in self-conceited praise. These are my actions, O my Creator! ||1||

;

baabaa bolee-ai pat ho-ay.

O Baba, speak only that which will bring you honor.

ootam say dar ootam kahee-ahi neech karam bahi ro-ay. ||1|| rahaa-o.

They alone are good, who are judged good at the Lord's Door. Those with bad karma can only sit and weep. ||1||Pause||

;

ras su-inaa ras rupaa kaaman ras parmal kee vaas.

The pleasures of gold and silver, the pleasures of women, the pleasure of the fragrance of sandalwood,

ras ghorhay ras sayjaa mandar ras meethaa ras maas.

the pleasure of horses, the pleasure of a soft bed in a palace, the pleasure of sweet treats and the pleasure of hearty meals -

aytay ras sareer kay kai ghat naam nivaas. ||2||

these pleasures of the human body are so numerous; how can the Naam, the Name of the Lord, find its dwelling in the heart? ||2||

jit boli-ai pat paa-ee-ai so boli-aa parvaan.

Those words are acceptable, which, when spoken, bring honor.

fikaa bol viguchnaa sun moorakh man ajaan.

Harsh words bring only grief. Listen, O foolish and ignorant mind!

jo tis bhaaveh say bhalay hor ke kahan vakhaan. ||3||

Those who are pleasing to Him are good. What else is there to be said? ||3||

tin mat tin pat tin Dhan palai jin hirdai rahi-aa samaa-ay.

Wisdom, honor and wealth are in the laps of those whose hearts remain permeated with the Lord.

tin kaa ki-aa salaahnaa avar su-aali-o kaa-ay.

What praise can be offered to them? What other adornments can be bestowed upon them?

naanak nadree baahray raacheh daan na naa-ay. ||4||4||

O Nanak, those who lack the Lord's Glance of Grace cherish neither charity nor the Lord's Name. ||4||4||

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This ang is about slander and those people who lie. Murdaar = Dead Human or person who has been murdered and not meat. It does not even mean carcass.

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Falsehood is my dagger and to eat by defrauding is meat.

(Guru Nanak Dev Ji. Sri Raaj p24)

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Spin, Spin , and more Spin. You guys won’t stop at any lies to push your view.

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sireeraag mehlaa 1 ghar 4.

Siree Raag, First Mehl, Fourth House:

ayk su-aan du-ay su-aanee naal.

The dogs of greed are with me.

bhalkay bha-ukahi sadaa ba-i-aal.

In the early morning, they continually bark at the wind.

koorh chhuraa muthaa murdaar.

Falsehood is my dagger; through deception, I eat the carcasses of the dead.

Dhaanak roop rahaa kartaar. ||1||

I live as a wild hunter, O Creator! ||1||

mai pat kee pand na karnee kee kaar.

I have not followed good advice, nor have I done good deeds.

ha-o bigrhai roop rahaa bikraal.

I am deformed and horribly disfigured.

tayraa ayk naam taaray sansaar.

Your Name alone, Lord, saves the world.

mai ayhaa aas ayho aaDhaar. ||1|| rahaa-o.

This is my hope; this is my support. ||1||Pause||

mukh nindaa aakhaa din raat.

With my mouth I speak slander, day and night.

par ghar johee neech sanaat.

I spy on the houses of others-I am such a wretched low-life!

kaam kroDh tan vaseh chandaal.

Unfulfilled sexual desire and unresolved anger dwell in my body, like the outcasts who cremate the dead.

Dhaanak roop rahaa kartaar. ||2||

I live as a wild hunter, O Creator! ||2||

faahee surat malookee vays.

I make plans to trap others, although I appear gentle.

ha-o thagvaarhaa thagee days.

I am a robber-I rob the world.

kharaa si-aanaa bahutaa bhaar.

I am very clever-I carry loads of sin.

Dhaanak roop rahaa kartaar. ||3||

I live as a wild hunter, O Creator! ||3||

mai keetaa na jaataa haraamkhor.

I have not appreciated what You have done for me, Lord; I take from others and exploit them.

ha-o ki-aa muhu daysaa dusat chor.

What face shall I show You, Lord? I am a sneak and a thief.

naanak neech kahai beechaar.

Nanak describes the state of the lowly.

Dhaanak roop rahaa kartaar. ||4||29||

I live as a wild hunter, O Creator! ||4||29||

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Mudaar = Dead Human not meat.

This is about lieing cheating and falsehood, and not meat

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In this dark age of Kali Yuga, people have faces like dogs; They eat rotting dead bodies for food. (SGGS p1242) The Vars of Bhai Gurdas Ji are known as the 'kunji' (key) to Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji. // 31 pauree 9 : "Just because the Guru has saved the butcher,That does not mean that we can kill animals and eat them."

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Rotting dead bodies = murdaar and not meat.

Again lets put it in the right phrase:

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salok mehlaa 1.

Shalok, First Mehl:

kal ho-ee kutay muhee khaaj ho-aa murdaar.

In this Dark Age of Kali Yuga, people have faces like dogs; they eat rotting carcasses for food.

koorh bol bol bha-ukanaa chookaa Dharam beechaar.

They bark and speak, telling only lies; all thought of righteousness has left them.

jin jeevandi-aa pat nahee mu-i-aa mandee so-ay.

Those who have no honor while alive, will have an evil reputation after they die.

likhi-aa hovai naankaa kartaa karay so ho-ay. ||1||

Whatever is predestined, happens, O Nanak; whatever the Creator does, comes to pass. ||1||

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This is not about meat at all but Guru is comparing people to dogs. The dog only cares about himself and is greedy, and they lie.

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Because these references are not often made aware of, they have simply been ignored. For most Sikhs it is more convenient to eat meat rather than avoid it.

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Runbbish and pure crap. We are not Jains. We respect all life forms including plants to. There is nothing in Sikhism about avoiding meat.

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By the way, plants are definately a lower life form than animals therefore the consequences of eating them is less severe. Sikhs believe in reincarnation and order of life form is:

1-plants 2-animals 3-humans... this is because of difference in capabilities between the three for instance; a plant does not have a heart or ability to express emotion, most of their movement is restricted unlike animals who look for partners to mate with and whimper when a loved one dies. Even when a cow dies after its death its legs still kick for freedom and its eyes roll around in its head...flippin' sick...we all know human beings have the highest capability therefore it is in this form god allows us to aim to be in chardi kala-highest spiritual level .

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More rubbish. The caurasi lakh joon before we become man can be animal, plant, or mineral. God does not differentiate between these. He only thinks of man of capable of reaching spirituality and therefore allows this human birth in one in 84 million. Just because you cannot see a plant kick or scream, it shows your ignorance. Plants Breath, They eat, they reproduce, the wither if you cruel to them, the flourish if you are nice to them. They respond to certain music. For you not to acknowledge that shows ignorance.

Even Guru says how plants suffer:

Page 143

mehlaa 1.

First Mehl:

vaykh je mithaa kati-aa kat kut baDhaa paa-ay.

Look, and see how the sugar-cane is cut down. After cutting away its branches, its feet are bound together into bundles,

khundhaa andar rakh kai dayn so mal sajaa-ay.

and then, it is placed between the wooden rollers and crushed.

ras kas tatar paa-ee-ai tapai tai villaa-ay.

What punishment is inflicted upon it! Its juice is extracted and placed in the cauldron; as it is heated, it groans and cries out.

bhee so fog samaalee-ai dichai ag jaalaa-ay.

And then, the crushed cane is collected and burnt in the fire below.

naanak mithai patree-ai vaykhhu lokaa aa-ay. ||2||

Nanak: come, people, and see how the sweet sugar-cane is treated! ||2||

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As sikhs we are supposed to respect all of man kind, respect gods creation including nature around us which means eating only what is necarssary. I would rather do this than be a walking graveyard although I still make chicken curry for my bro .

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You may not wanna eat meat, well that’s fine, but eatin and not eatin is nuffin to do wiv Sikhism. Period. To start talking that stuff is sheer ignorance.

Final word on this and people like you who are sooooo egotistical it makes me wanna puke:

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mehlaa 1.

First Mehl:

maas maas kar moorakh jhagrhay gi-aan Dhi-aan nahee jaanai.

The fools argue about flesh and meat, but they know nothing about meditation and spiritual wisdom.

ka-un maas ka-un saag kahaavai kis meh paap samaanay.

What is called meat, and what is called green vegetables? What leads to sin?

gaiNdaa maar hom jag kee-ay dayviti-aa kee baanay.

It was the habit of the gods to kill the rhinoceros, and make a feast of the burnt offering.

maas chhod bais nak pakrheh raatee maanas khaanay.

Those who renounce meat, and hold their noses when sitting near it, devour men at night.

farh kar lokaaN no dikhlaavahi gi-aan Dhi-aan nahee soojhai.

They practice hypocrisy, and make a show before other people, but they do not understand anything about meditation or spiritual wisdom.

naanak anDhay si-o ki-aa kahee-ai kahai na kahi-aa boojhai.

O Nanak, what can be said to the blind people? They cannot answer, or even understand what is said.

anDhaa so-ay je anDh kamaavai tis ridai se lochan naahee.

They alone are blind, who act blindly. They have no eyes in their hearts.

maat pitaa kee rakat nipannay machhee maas na khaaNhee.

They are produced from the blood of their mothers and fathers, but they do not eat fish or meat.

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also read;

www.sikhs.org/meat.htm

Edited by: VicBahra at: 4/25/06 11:26 pm

Commandments from sri Guru Granth Sahib JI:

Ang (page) 1103

You kill animals (living beings) and call it a righteous action (halal). Tell me brother what do you call an unrighteous action?

You call yourself the most excellent sage (person of great wisdom) then who do you call a butcher?

Ang (page) 140

If ones clothes are stained with blood, the garment becomes polluted, those who consume blood in the form of flesh (meat) how can their conscious be pure?

Ang723

The world eats dead carcasses, living by neglect and greed like goblins, or a beast, they kill and eat forbidden carcasses of meat. So control your urges or else you will be seized by the lord and thrown into the torture of hell.

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh

The discussion on meat is completly fruitless for me. I have no interest in discussing if emat is okay or not, however the quotes above do not speak about eating meat. Again I am not saying you can eat meat, I'm sayign the tuks of Gurbani have been misinterpreted.

Ang (page) 140

If ones clothes are stained with blood, the garment becomes polluted, those who consume blood in the form of flesh (meat) how can their conscious be pure?

This has nothing to do with meat. Have you purposly mistranslated the pangtee to suit you.

Here is STTMs translation -

Shalok, First Mehl: If one's clothes are stained with blood, the garment becomes polluted. Those who suck the blood of human beings-how can their consciousness be pure? O Nanak, chant the Name of God, with heart-felt devotion. Everything else is just a pompous worldly show, and the practice of false deeds. ||1||

blood of HUMAN BEINGS. What does that mean? This is the same thing as the Sakhi of Guru Nanak Dev Ji pouring blood out of one, and milk out of one roti. This Shabad is talking about 'haram di kamay', i.e. having an inhonest income and using other people.

ਅਰਥ: ਜੇ ਜਾਮੇ ਨੂੰ ਲਹੂ ਲੱਗ ਜਾਵੇ, ਤਾਂ ਜਾਮਾ ਪਲੀਤ ਹੋ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ (ਤੇ ਨਮਾਜ਼ ਨਹੀਂ ਹੋ ਸਕਦੀ) (ਪਰ) ਜੋ ਬੰਦੇ ਮਨੁੱਖਾਂ ਦਾ ਲਹੂ ਪੀਂਦੇ ਹਨ (ਭਾਵ, ਧੱਕਾ ਕਰ ਕੇ ਹਰਾਮ ਦੀ ਕਮਾਈ ਖਾਂਦੇ ਹਨ) ਉਹਨਾਂ ਦਾ ਮਨ ਕਿਵੇਂ ਪਾਕ (ਸਾਫ਼) ਰਹਿ ਸਕਦਾ ਹੈ (ਤੇ ਪਲੀਤ ਮਨ ਨਾਲ ਨਮਾਜ਼ ਪੜ੍ਹੀ ਕਿਵੇਂ ਕਬੂਲ ਹੈ)? ਹੇ ਨਾਨਕ! ਰੱਬ ਦਾ ਨਾਮ ਮੂੰਹੋਂ ਸਾਫ਼ ਦਿਲ ਨਾਲ ਲੈ (ਇਸ ਤੋਂ ਬਿਨਾ) ਹੋਰ ਕੰਮ ਦੁਨੀਆ ਵਾਲੇ ਵਿਖਾਵੇ ਹਨ। ਇਹ ਤਾਂ ਤੁਸੀ ਕੂੜੇ ਕੰਮ ਹੀ ਕਰਦੇ ਹੋ ॥੧॥

Have you purposly mistranslated the pangtee? Because no-one else has translated it the way you have...

There is absolutly no other mention of the word 'blood' on that ang of Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

Ang723

The world eats dead carcasses, living by neglect and greed like goblins, or a beast, they kill and eat forbidden carcasses of meat. So control your urges or else you will be seized by the lord and thrown into the torture of hell.

Again mistranslation.

ਅਰਥ: ਹੇ ਮਨੁੱਖ! ਜੋ ਕੁਝ ਤੂੰ ਅੱਖੀਂ ਵੇਖਦਾ ਹੈਂ ਨਾਸਵੰਤ ਹੈ। ਪਰ ਦੁਨੀਆ (ਮਾਇਆ ਦੇ) ਲਾਲਚ ਵਿਚ (ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਵਲੋਂ) ਭੁੱਲੀ ਹੋਈ ਹੈ, ਤੇ, ਹਰਾਮ ਖਾਂਦੀ ਰਹਿੰਦੀ ਹੈ (ਪਰਾਇਆ ਹੱਕ ਖੋਂਹਦੀ ਰਹਿੰਦੀ ਹੈ)। ਰਹਾਉ। ਹੇ ਭਾਈ! ਚੇਤਨ ਜੋਤਿ ਅਤੇ ਅਚੇਤਨ ਮਿੱਟੀ ਮਿਲਾ ਕੇ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਨੇ ਇਹ ਜਗਤ ਇਹ ਜਹਾਨ ਬਣਾ ਦਿੱਤਾ ਹੈ।

Ang (page) 1103

You kill animals (living beings) and call it a righteous action (halal). Tell me brother what do you call an unrighteous action?

You call yourself the most excellent sage (person of great wisdom) then who do you call a butcher?

Looked though the entire ang, but coudn't find this. Would appreciate if you could post original Gurmukhi Pangtee.

As for as the abvoe two are concerned, you have obviously misinterpreted/mistranslated the pangtees to suit you.

I am in no way Saying Gurbani says its OK, but I'm sayign that these specific pangtees mentioned have absolutly nothing to do with the issue of meat, and thus it would mistranslating and misleading others about the pangtee. Let's not resort to such means, as this is our Guru. It is vital we understand what Guru ji is saying instead of misinterpreting and misttranslating tuks for our own belief's sake.

Again I do not want to get into the meat debate, as that is fruitless, all I'm saying is that these specific PANGTEES do not speak about meat.

Continue searching for releveant quotes, which actually DO forbid it, instead of mistranslating...

Bhull Chukk Maaf

I am really dumb founded at the mistranslation LK has kindly exposed here? :@ @

Thanks for the good work LK..............and for the record...LK is a strict vegetarian.....yet he puts truth ahead of spin!!!! :lol:

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wow, whoever he was quoting sure got wasted... well then, we all know what is right, this should be stickied or at least the quotes.

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