Beadbi At Ramgarhia Gurdwara, Graham Street, Birmingham

[chatanga]

no-one who truly beleives in Gurmat can defend Gurdwaras that have party halls. They are nothing but a money making scheme for Gurdwaras. All the defence ploys of this gurdwara i have heard many times at our own gurdwara when we tried( and with Gurus kirpa) did eventually get it shut down. But this is a deep-rooted problem, that so many Commmittee's see the financial advance of Gurdawaras as a major acheivement, whereas the true achievement is bringing people onto Gurmat Marg.

Guru Gobind Singh Ji threw the most precious expensive of jewels into rivers. Why? To save Sikhi. today, some people are prepared to throw sikhi into rivers, and save the jewels.

[VanHelsingh]

I was thinking about the above, and similar, issues yesterday evening. Why do people with such questionable motives (and a disregard for true Sikhi principles) rise to positions of prominence in our religion? What is it about them that allows them to take up such positions, when one could argue that the majority of the people on these boards (and in the outside world) who know the difference between right and wrong - in the context of Sikhi - are relegated to the positions of helpless and frustrated bystanders?

What qualities do these groups of questionable people possess that means it is they who are heading our faith? Is it a symptom of the age of Kalyug, or is it too easy to blame everything on Kalyug?

[sikhpaji]

I was thinking about the above, and similar, issues yesterday evening. Why do people with such questionable motives (and a disregard for true Sikhi principles) rise to positions of prominence in our religion? What is it about them that allows them to take up such positions, when one could argue that the majority of the people on these boards (and in the outside world) who know the difference between right and wrong - in the context of Sikhi - are relegated to the positions of helpless and frustrated bystanders?

What qualities do these groups of questionable people possess that means it is they who are heading our faith? Is it a symptom of the age of Kalyug, or is it too easy to blame everything on Kalyug?

The problem with people who write on these forums do not have the time to go to the Gurdwara and sacrifice time from thier families and do Seva at the Gurdwara. As Jarnail Singh posted earlier you do not look at the good things that these commitee do just the one you think is bad. As for public demonstrations, then I think those who are planning them should follow them through and it will only make them and Satkaar Sewadars look bad in front of the community.

The point is simple. It is not a commitee decision it is that sanmgat and members of the gurdwara who will make the ultimate decision. Text messages which are complete lies are going around which people have received and some of them mention that the [antic Times will be held at Graham Street. Please come and demonstrate and when people find out this is untrue only Satkaar Sewadars will get discredited along with those sending and communicating these messages.

If youi need to move forward then these people, who are posting such literature using annoymous names should publish thier full names and addresses, why are you hiding if you are speaking the truth. If you do this you may get more credability and will get invited by the commitee to talk about the issues. So many people publish Gurbani and quotes of Guru Gobind Singh JI on this forum, one of the biggest things he gave the sikhs was identity and these manmats hiding behind cyber names are worse than the commitees allowing meat and alcohol in these halls, all you can do is wind people up.

I'm sure this comment will get diverted and most of you will say that this is not the issues as with excuses before, but can someone answer why you are not willing to show your identies ? If not we suggest that this matter is closed.

[VanHelsingh]

@ Sikhpaji - I suggest you direct your ire in another direction instead of towards me. I was hoping to discuss a merely philosophical issue, yet you have unleashed a torrent of emotion that has most probably been building up for the past few weeks.

Next time, when one of my more direct, passionate and hot-headed brothers on this forum wishes to engage with you in this matter, I hope you'll be as passionate and confrontational with them as you have been with me. Don't assume to know me, my intentions or what I choose to do for the seva of my faith.

On a final note, these commitees you are defending can't have their misdeeds balanced out by any so-called "good deeds". Its either one or the other. They can't have their cake and eat it. To even suggest such a thing speaks volumes about these people who think they can camouflage their beadbi with charity. It also speaks volumes about your morals.

[mohinder pal]

SIKH PANTH WAS ABOUT SANTMAT. I WONDER FROM WHERE AKALIMAT word originated

[MentalSingh]

Sikhpaji you are very sly piece of work. If you dont understand the concept of forums then you should not be posting on here. If you are want everyones names then why don't you lead by example and post yours on here first. All you want to do is discredit people from the stage at Gurdwara. You are a very cunning person.

[chatanga]

So many people publish Gurbani and quotes of Guru Gobind Singh JI on this forum, one of the biggest things he gave the sikhs was identity...

Bhaji, you are right about this, but that is no answer for the issue being discussed. Remember the last time that this disgrace of alcohol in gurdwaras became a panthic issue, was when the mahants in the 1900 -1920s. That gave birth to the Gurdwara Sudhar Lehar, and now history is repeating itsef, only now the various gurdwara committee's have taken the role of the mahants.

Then the Mahants did all they could even calling the British govt for help, but ultimately they had to give in to the truth, that Gurdwaras and alcohol do not mix.

Let's all learn from history, it gives us amazing lessons.

[gurdssingh]

Bhaji, you are right about this, but that is no answer for the issue being discussed. Remember the last time that this disgrace of alcohol in gurdwaras became a panthic issue, was when the mahants in the 1900 -1920s. That gave birth to the Gurdwara Sudhar Lehar, and now history is repeating itsef, only now the various gurdwara committee's have taken the role of the mahants.

Then the Mahants did all they could even calling the British govt for help, but ultimately they had to give in to the truth, that Gurdwaras and alcohol do not mix.

Let's all learn from history, it gives us amazing lessons.

Excellent post i agree. Sikh paaji like khalistani zindabad said forget the meat issue what about the booze? It is wrong, and come on whatever virws on meat im no authority but it is like an unwritten rule lets keep these things out of gurdwara premises. Everyone is happy then. Let all sikhs unite, and come to an amicable joint decision, it happened let by gones be by gones. Inform the sangat in brum about what is accepted practice. No one is ganging up on other castes as there are non in sikhi. If the sangat at rst stop this party hall practice, u have stated it is used for other gurmat practicrs aswell, u guys will be congratulated like edinborough lot. Also most people who have parties have them in banqueting suites anyway so to accomodate a few scrooges who get a cheap hall, just stop it as there cant be parties every week can there.?

[Only five]

The problem with people who write on these forums do not have the time to go to the Gurdwara and sacrifice time from thier families and do Seva at the Gurdwara.

And you have the time to set up halls at Gurdwaras and then let them serve alcohol and meat. So tell us what seva have you done? The answer is nothing. A one year old that puts smiles on others faces as done more seva than you.

As Jarnail Singh posted earlier you do not look at the good things that these commitee do just the one you think is bad.

Stop serving alcohol and meat and the sangat will give you a pat on the back. Line up all your committee members and all of them will get a pat on the back.

As for public demonstrations, then I think those who are planning them should follow them through and it will only make them and Satkaar Sewadars look bad in front of the community.

Non-violent protest will resolve this problem.

The point is simple. It is not a commitee decision it is that sanmgat and members of the gurdwara who will make the ultimate decision.

First have the courage to have a meeting with the Satkaar Sevadaars and then start talking about who decision it is. Gurmat has given the Khalsa Panth the decision. You should be thankful to Dharma Raja let your thug buddies serve alcohol and meat for this long at Gurdwaras. If you don't do ardas, next time thank to the money you worship.

Text messages which are complete lies are going around which people have received and some of them mention that the [antic Times will be held at Graham Street. Please come and demonstrate and when people find out this is untrue only Satkaar Sewadars will get discredited along with those sending and communicating these messages.

Do you see anyone backing off from sending the messages? I think you need to go lie down and get some rest for your diluded thoughts. Come back when 1+1= 2 not 11.

If youi need to move forward then these people, who are posting such literature using annoymous names should publish thier full names and addresses, why are you hiding if you are speaking the truth. If you do this you may get more credability and will get invited by the commitee to talk about the issues. So many people publish Gurbani and quotes of Guru Gobind Singh JI on this forum, one of the biggest things he gave the sikhs was identity and these manmats hiding behind cyber names are worse than the commitees allowing meat and alcohol in these halls, all you can do is wind people up.

Are you planning to come to BC, Canada. If you are please do pm and we can sit down and have a discussion about Gurmat. I'll welcome you and your whole crew with open arms. The more of your crew comes down, the bigger the blessing for me.

I'm sure this comment will get diverted and most of you will say that this is not the issues as with excuses before, but can someone answer why you are not willing to show your identies ? If not we suggest that this matter is closed.

So your mother and father named you Sikhpaji?

[SarabhaPanjab]

ok, can't be bothered to read all the pointless replies from this laughable committee member.

these cunning congressi politicians will come up with a million and one excuses.

Dear Satkaar Sewadaar's, please set a date so we can protest.

It is clear dialogue with these guys is pointless.