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Beadbi At Ramgarhia Gurdwara, Graham Street, Birmingham


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#131 sikhpaji

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 10:52 AM


And you have the time to set up halls at Gurdwaras and then let them serve alcohol and meat. So tell us what seva have you done? The answer is nothing. A one year old that puts smiles on others faces as done more seva than you.



Stop serving alcohol and meat and the sangat will give you a pat on the back. Line up all your committee members and all of them will get a pat on the back.



Non-violent protest will resolve this problem.



First have the courage to have a meeting with the Satkaar Sevadaars and then start talking about who decision it is. Gurmat has given the Khalsa Panth the decision. You should be thankful to Dharma Raja let your thug buddies serve alcohol and meat for this long at Gurdwaras. If you don't do ardas, next time thank to the money you worship.



Do you see anyone backing off from sending the messages? I think you need to go lie down and get some rest for your diluded thoughts. Come back when 1+1= 2 not 11.



Are you planning to come to BC, Canada. If you are please do pm and we can sit down and have a discussion about Gurmat. I'll welcome you and your whole crew with open arms. The more of your crew comes down, the bigger the blessing for me.



So your mother and father named you Sikhpaji?


What a lot of excuses to the responses, i think you need to reconsider your approach again, and my mother and father didn't call me sikh paji, as a sikh you should reassess that you do not bring parents into this. My parents at least told me not to disrespect others.

ok, can't be bothered to read all the pointless replies from this laughable committee member.

these cunning congressi politicians will come up with a million and one excuses.


Dear Satkaar Sewadaar's, please set a date so we can protest.
It is clear dialogue with these guys is pointless.


I a not a committee member and only a member of the Gurdwara where bitter people have decidied to spread nonsense and unwilling to discuss the issue in question where the Satkaar Sewadars where invited. I will however ask the commitee to put up a formal response, with proper names !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

#132 singh1986

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 11:34 AM

Sikhpaji, sorry to be blunt, but even if the Committee had decided to open a strip bar with the "consent" of the sangat, you would still insist on having a dialouge about the issue and not see it as immoral and agaisnt sikh principles!... I dont see what difference it makes to you by having everyones names and addresses... are you planing on sending us invites to the booze up? Because just so you know, people wouldnt attend, as its agaisnt the principles of sikhi... something the committee of one the biggest Gurdwara in Birmingham should be abiding by! They should hang thier heads in SHAME!

#133 gurdssingh

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 12:07 PM

Listen guys in my humble opinion being and acting superior is not the answer. Lets put our arm around our brethren and guide them in what is considered the right direction. Please its not im better than you. THE BIGGER PICTURE IS RESPECT FOR SIKHI. Comeon rst sangat adhere to akal takhat sandesh. Its not tu tu mere mere. I did this you do that. NO!
LOOK AT WHAT OUR GURUS INSTILLED IN SIKHS.
Rst / sikh paaji im a non rehit keeping aspiring so called sikh, even i know gurdwareh and their property should be held in highest esteem and respect. Akal takhts supremacy and authority is without question and should be adhered by all denominations of sikh. Even low life aspiring wanting to be sikhs like me, read my previous posts im not liked on this site as im a bit liberally minded, cos i was bought up like that, thats why im in quality control but i know the essence and core principles which means akal thakts sandesh is final. Our scholars have looked into it. Alcohol and meat is not allowed on guru ji s property.
The meat and tilak at sri hazur sahib is totally different maybe u didnt mention but someone in the thread did.
sikh paaji even someone like me understands the sanctity of gurdwareh.
(I am a mona, married to non sikh with 2 kids. Many so called sikhs looked down at me and my family was not felt welcome, as i married a brahmin. Btw mehtab singh i asked u for advice as u claimed to be from that background and then got into sikhi, but u blanked me , tried to aviod the subject by being philosphical and highly patronising. Anyway when i wanted to embrace i was looked down upon, only the compassion and teaching of gaini lal singh ji made me feel welcome and he did not judge me even when i told him i wanted to learn, with his guidance i quit smoking and im embracing sikhi in baby steps. My point is when u make someone feel unwellcome they tend to turn the other way or are zealous in their stance. But showing guidance without intimidation works.

#134 Satkaar

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 01:41 PM

SANGAT UPDATE
Birmingham, UK - 27 December 2010

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

Following on from our previous Sangat Update, please see below a further email correspondence with the committee of Ramgarhia Sikh Temple (RST), Birmingham.

Despite many individual members of the Sikh Community attempting to establish a courteous dialogue with the RST committee, it seems that the RST committee are not interested in swiftly addressing the blasphemous issue that alcohol, meat and parties are continually permitted on the complex of the holy Gurdwara estate. As the global Sikh Community are aware, this is in violation of Sikh maryada, Akal Takht Sahib's 2006 Sandesh and comments recently made by Singh Sahib Giani Gurbachan Singh Ji on this issue.

Sadly, we also understand that it has been continually intimated by the RST committee that the Satkaar campaign is: (i) potentially a physical threat to the RST committee/the local Sangat of the Gurdwara, and (ii) raising this issue due to a "caste"-based vendetta. This is absolutely not the case, and we have again sought to reassure the RST committee of this.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: satkaarsevadaars@hotmail.co.uk
To: info@rstbirmingham.com
CC: satkaar@hotmail.co.uk
Subject: RE: SANGAT UPDATE: Ramgarhia Sikh Temple, Birmingham violate Sikh Maryada
Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2010 21:21:23 +0000

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

This email addresses two issues. Firstly, who/what is the Satkaar campaign, and secondly, it repeats issues already raised with you, the committee of Ramgarhia Sikh Temple, Birmingham (RST), in our previous email correspondence with you. Despite our best efforts, we have not had any success in scheduling a face-to-face meeting with you, so we have been unable to provide these explanations and assurances to you in person.

Once again, and before this issue escalates further, we would request that the RST committee agree to our request for a meeting as soon as possible, so that we can collectively work towards resolving this issue with humility, and mutual pyaar and satkaar.

As always, Satkaar Sevadaars are contactable at any time, to arrange a meeting with the RST committee or any other dialogue, by Email: satkaar@hotmail.co.uk or Telephone: 07507 330 548. As mentioned previously, once a mutually convenient meeting time is confirmed, we will be happy to confirm to you in advance of the meeting the names of the relevant attendees representing the UK Sangat.

(1) Who/what is the Satkaar campaign?

In our last email correspondence, the RST committee asked the following questions: "Please could you advise us the formation of Satkaar Sewadaars. Are you a registered or recognised body? Have you been given any authority to act on the behalf of another organisation wishing to implement the sandesh?"

The Satkaar campaign is not a formal body in any sense. It is neither a registered charity nor a private association, nor does it have any formal office or office-bearers. Rather, the Satkaar campaign, and its Sevadaars (i.e., Satkaar Sevadaars), is a UK Sangat-led grassroots Gurdwara reform movement, initially focused on preventing the gross sacrilege of parties, meat, alcohol and tobacco being permitted on Gurdwara premises or any premises funded with the Sangat's donations to Guru Ji's Golak. This cause, as an issue of concern for the UK Sangat, was formalised on Saturday 16 October 2010, when hundreds of concerned members of the UK Sangat young and old, male and female, amritdhaari and non-amritdhaari, from all Panthic Jathebandiaan and backgrounds travelled from far and wide to peacefully protest against a proposed party at Grays Gurdwara, which would see alcohol, tobacco and meat permitted on Gurdwara premises. With Guru Ji's blessings, the party was prevented from occurring. Subsequently, Grays and Edinburgh Gurdwaras have also agreed to close down their party halls.

More importantly, the UK Sangat came together on Saturday 16 October 2010 to express frustration at all UK Gurdwara committees who show flagrant disregard for Gurmat Maryada and openly defy Akal Takhat Sahib's 2006 Sandesh. Indeed, the final sentence of the 2006 Sandesh itself mentions that the worldwide Sikh Sangat must strictly observe the Gurmat principles set out in the 2006 Sandesh. Therefore, the UK Sangat's authority to enforce Gurmat Maryada in all UK Gurdwaras in relation to this issue comes directly from Akal Takhat Sahib, the supreme policy/decision-making body of the Sikhs. Bearing all this in mind, the UK Sangat did an Ardaas that day in front of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaaj to uphold Akal Takhat Sahib's 2006 Sandesh in all UK Gurdwaras. Subsequently, Akal Takhat Sahib's Jathedaar, Singh Sahib Giani Gurbachan Singh Ji, has again endorsed the Gurmat principles set out in the 2006 Sandesh on the Panth Time Special aired live on the Sikh Channel on Saturday 4 December 2010.

Although the Satkaar campaign has no direct affiliation to any organisation or Gurdwara, it is working closely and actively with, and has the support of, all respected UK Panthic Jathebandiaan and many leading Gurdwaras in the UK (including in the West Midlands). Such organisations and Gurdwaras have indicated that they are willing to accompany Satkaar Sevadaars in any meeting with the RST committee.


(2) Satkaar campaign is a PEACEFUL and non-Caste based movement


Sadly, Satkaar Sevadaars are receiving feedback from community elders speaking to the RST committee and members of the general Sangat that the RST committee is intimating that the Satkaar campaign is: (i) potentially a physical threat to the RST committee/the local Sangat of the Gurdwara, and (ii) raising this issue due to a "caste"-based vendetta.

As mentioned on numerous occasions, our sole concern in this matter is to ensure that the Beadbi that is currently occurring in the Maharaja Jassa Singh Ramgarhia Hall is stopped, so that meat, alcohol, tobacco and parties are no longer permitted on such premises.
We again would like to re-emphasise that we do NOT encourage violence and we stand for a completely PEACEFUL Gurdwara reform movement. We have previously mentioned to the RST committee and, we once again mention, that to the extent that the RST committee have any concerns on this, they should please provide to us the details of the police officers they are liaising with in the West Midlands Police, and we will be happy to provide to such police officers the relevant assurances that they may be seeking. The RST committee should also note that Satkaar Sevadaars have also directly been in contact with officers from the West Midlands Police in relation to this issue.

The RST committee have mentioned that they have received threatening/nuisance phone calls. The Satkaar campaign has always requested the UK Sangat to speak to the RST committee respectfully and courteously on this issue, though it cannot be responsible for the actions of people so acting otherwise. Also, Satkaar Sevadaars have always advised the RST committee to raise any issues in this regard with the police, and we have been told by the RST committee that this has been done. The UK Sangat would be very interested to know what action, if any, the police is taking on this in relation to any specific cases. We would be grateful if you could advise the UK Sangat of this.

Satkaar Sevadaars feel rather embarrassed in having to repeat that we believe that we are all equal GurSikh brothers and sisters, and that there can be, and there is, no issue of caste arising within the Satkaar campaign. There are individuals from all walks of background who do Seva with the Satkaar campaign. We would re-emphasise that our Panth is unfortunately, against our Guru Ji's core teachings, riddled with division and that we wish the Panth to be united through mutual understanding and love. This can ONLY be achieved if we all follow Gurmat principles and encourage maintaining maximum Satkaar of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaaj.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

----------------------------------------------------------------------
CC: satkaar@hotmail.co.uk
From: Info@rstbirmingham.com
Subject: Re: SANGAT UPDATE: Ramgarhia Sikh Temple, Birmingham violate Sikh Maryada
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2010 09:16:12 +0000
To: satkaarsevadaars@hotmail.co.uk

Please could you advise us the formation of Satkaar Sewadaars. Are you a registered or recognised body? Have you been given any authority to act on the behalf of another organisation wishing to implement the sandesh?
We have spoken to the Police and other bodies who asked us to correspond only to a full postal address. Therefore we shall only have future dialogue to a full uk registered address which does not include po box numbers.

Regards

On 9 Dec 2010, at 23:43, Satkaar Sevadaars satkaarsevadaars@hotmail.co.uk wrote:

PLEASE DO FORWARD TO ALL YOUR SIKH CONTACTS - It's important to continue raising awareness of this issue in the Sangat

SANGAT UPDATE
Birmingham, UK - 9 December 2010

RST Committee claim their inability to meet UK Sangat until second week of January

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

As servants of the UK Sangat, we feel it is our duty to keep the UK Sangat fully informed of developments in relation to the Satkaar campaign. Please see below the email exchange that has been had with the committee of Ramgarhia Sikh Temple (RST), Birmingham. The RST committee have also confirmed orally to members of the UK Sangat that they will not meet with the UK Sangat on this issue until the second week of January.

As mentioned in our email below to the RST committee, Satkaar Sevadaars wish to ensure that there is full transparency and accountability for the actions of all involved. In light of this, so that this cannot be used as an excuse to deflect attention away from the real issue (which is meat, alcohol, tobacco and parties being permitted on Gurdwara premises), we would like to re-iterate that we have always requested, and we again request, that the UK Sangat speak at all times to the relevant committee members with courtesy and respect - this is the Gursikh way.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!



#135 Balait_da_Sher

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 01:53 PM

How about having a discussion on the Sikh channel? I believe the Path Time programme highlighted this issue and both sides had some things to day. It might be better if there is a live discussion on the Sikh Channel between the Satkar Sewadars and the RST committee? If the committee refuses to attend then atleast all of Europe will know what Satkar issue is all about.
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#136 SarabhaPanjab

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 02:20 PM

How about having a discussion on the Sikh channel? I believe the Path Time programme highlighted this issue and both sides had some things to day. It might be better if there is a live discussion on the Sikh Channel between the Satkar Sewadars and the RST committee? If the committee refuses to attend then atleast all of Europe will know what Satkar issue is all about.



This is the whole problem with this Sikh channel/Sikh Council partnership.
How can you have free independent media when you are tied up to a council?

If you raise the issue of beadbi, you lose the vote bank of one of biggest Gurdwaras.
Watch how the Sikh channel will tip-toe around issues that involve the major Gurdwaras.

not to forget, Brit Asia are playing a promo for some Punjabi comedy where they have idiots dressed in fake long beards and gol dastars pretending to be Sants.

Cheers Davy Bal, for insulting Sikh Saroop yet again.

Cancel your direct debits - these guys will take us for a ride.

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#137 Only five

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 04:37 PM

SANGAT UPDATE


Satkaar sevadars should get a petition going where they get sangats signature on who wants to stop the alcohol and meat beadbi in not just this Gurdwara, but all Gurdwaras in the UK. This way the gurnindaks cannot run and hide behind sangats name.

#138 Charan Singh

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 01:24 AM

Again with all due respect to the sangat, pls dont get offended by my words.
The provoking attitude of sikhpaji (who is clearly a committee member of rst) shows that any meeting would be a waste of time with apostates who have renounced gurmat.
I think sangat have escalated this enough and the only option is a peaceful demo outside rst party hall.
May maharaj bless these patits in rst with sikh jeevans. Pls maharaj, help them understand how evil sharab is.

#139 SinghWarrior

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 03:55 AM

Sikhpaji - you are clearly a committee member of Ramgarhia Birmingham or very closely linked to it. If you're such a hero, why don't you reveal who you are before asking the same of others?

I think Satkaar are being very honourable and giving the committee every chance, despite having the likes of "Sikhpaji" making provocative and offensive statements. From the latest Satkaar update, it seems the committee are using the oldest tricks in the book to divert the issue, by branding the Satkaar campaign as extremist and casteist - TYPICAL, when they have nothing else to defend their actions.

No doubt, when the protest does eventually happen, the Ramgarhia Birmingham committee will turn round and say that they were never given a chance to meet to resollve this. It's been over a month now and they still refuse to meet. This shows they have something to hide and they know what they are doing is wrong, though they are too weak to overcome their own egos and close the party hall.

#140 TavPrasad Singh

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Posted 31 December 2010 - 06:09 AM

*
POPULAR

Despite many individual members of the Sikh Community attempting to establish a courteous dialogue with the RST committee, it seems that the RST committee are not interested in swiftly addressing the blasphemous issue that alcohol, meat and parties are continually permitted on the complex of the holy Gurdwara estate. As the global Sikh Community are aware, this is in violation of Sikh maryada, Akal Takht Sahib's 2006 Sandesh and comments recently made by Singh Sahib Giani Gurbachan Singh Ji on this issue.


This is the segment of the Panth Time programme (broadcasted on Sikh Channel - 4th December 2010) where Sri Akal Takht Sahib Jathedar Gyani Gurbachan Singh Ji expands on the 2006 Sandesh:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziDUpPkMs0M
janam janam kay kilbikh dukh utray gur naam dee-o rin laathaa. ||1||

the sins and pains of countless incarnations have been cast out. the Guru has blessed me with the Naam, the Name of the Lord, and my debt has been paid off. ||1||




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