Christians In Punjab

[SevadaarEKhalsa]

Doesn't change the fact that we have to help poorer Sikhs, stop filling corrupts SGPC/DSGMC pockets.

British had very little succes in our Punjab, in 100 years they could only make 1.5% Christians. In Pak Punjab about 3%. But now, their numbers have tripled in the past 10 years, and it is not only due to the dramas enacted by these pastors. It is also due to continous discrimination by Sikhs, our failure to leave the caste system behind. Our inability to help our brethren in need.

I wonder why the following was never implemented in Punjab:

Conversion spree in Punjab

Author: Rajesh Deol Publication: Deccan Herald Date: March 20, 2003 URL: http://www.deccanher...ld/mar20/n3.aspA spate of Sikh conversions to Christianity in Punjab, particularly in the border belt adjoining Pakistan, has rocked the Sikh community provoking a furore among the religious and political outfits. The Sikh representative party, the Akali Dal, is now seeking an Anti Conversion Act in Punjab on the pattern of Tamil Naidu.

More than 5 Indian states have issued such laws to prevent Hindus from converting to Islam and Christanity, but our Akalis are still sleeping.

See how low they can go to win converts:

Christians interrupt Sikh Funeral in the US, seek converts

Posted March 4, 2004

San Jose, Feb. 29, 2004

The American GI Forum Hall was packed with hundreds of mourners as members of the huge Sikh community of the Bay Area gathered for the funeral service of Hari Singh and Satnam Singh, two of the three people, who were killed by a gunman in a high-profile attack the previous Sunday. Speaker after speaker came up to address the grieved for their lost loved ones and prayed for their families.

However, members of Indian Christians United (ICU) took this advantage of the Sikh community in mourning as an opportunity to convert them. Brother Younis Masih and two other Punjabi converts walked on top the stage and announced they would be playing a gospel song. Younis then walked to his harmonium, one sat down with a tabla, and the third held a Bible.

In the following minutes, the Christian converts inappropriately began singing to Christian songs, preaching the virtues of Christianity over Sikhism and read two passages from the Bible. Younis spoke in fluent Punjabi in an attempt to convert as many Sikhs as possible.

BTW heres another video of their dramas (this time in Pakistan)

[Bundha]

They are very well versed in conversion techniques.

Occasionally we have a group visit my house. They are very cheerful and speak in punjabi,

their bible is in punjabi and they will read from it in punjabi. They never say they are

trying to convert or anything like this.

First they speak to you on the door step.

Then they will ask if they can come in and sit and have a chat.

Once inside they will invite you to one of their meetings.

If you go to their meeting you are more or less hooked.

At no piont do they say who they are or what they are trying to do. Very clever.

Alas, we are too embroiled in affairs of our own making. Many despise a fellow Sikh who is

not of their cast/bradhri. A few years ago a million dalits wanted to become Sikhs. We did

not have to go out looking for them they wanted to become Sikhs themselves BUT our leadership

totally ignored them, infact repelled them.

We are our own worst enemies, if it wasn't for the hand of Guru Gobind Singh Ji over the Khalsa

panth we would have dissolved a long time ago. :sad2:

[Paneer Monster]

Interesting Bundha, are they jahova witnesses?

A personal experience: I live in a non Punjabi area. About two years ago we had Goreh Jahova Witnesses people visit us, I wasn't home, my sister invited them in and bluntly explained she is not interested in Jahova Witness. A couple of weeks later we had Punjabi Speaking Jahova Witnesses at our door(coincidence?). I was home, I invited them in and explained to them why I believe in Gursikhi and why I would not consider changing my faith. They went into specific details and explained that I do not need to give up my faith to take part in their congregation and how attending their congregation I would learn things that could even give me happiness and strength to confront any situation. They then gave examples of other peoples experiences. I replied my Guru gives me all the strength and happiness I need. They said they have Sikhs who attend their congregation, I explained that that has noting to do with me, in a similar way many non Sikhs visit Gurdwara's and also get fed there - this has nothing to do with them. Whilst non Sikhs are in Gurdwara, there is no differentiation made between Sikhs and non Sikhs, and we do not attempt to convert them. I explained a true Sikh would only knock at their Guru's Door. They tried telling me what Sikhi is, they didn't say anything negative about Sikhi but they were playing mind games. Also they would quote from their scriptures, I also quoted from Gurbani. Lots was said, I don't remember the details. There was no arguments, from their side nor mine… but they were very cunning in their approach. Why did they want us to attend their congregation so desperately? I shared my experience with some sangat, I later found out many punjabi's have experienced similar things in the midlands area. It is evident to note, I live in London. My advice to sangat... Do Not Give These People The Time Of Day, Unless you Are Equipt With Gursikhi. Ask them why they are hell bent on conversions, and whats in it for them if you convert. Explain that as a non christian /. jahova or wotvever else, how would that affect you when you die... then you can respond by saying In Sikhi, we believe sachkhand is not only restricted to Sikhs.

We need to make a documentary and raise awareness about this that provides details of all the points raised and tactics used by these Christians, and explain how they specifically target Sikhs (in punjab) and explain in depth how they are trained to target the community. To do this we must:

1 - conduct some thorough research with figures and references

2 - interview sangat and their views on the issue, interview ex converts (my friend knows a bibi who converted to a Christian then came back to Sikhi we need people like this to share their experiances)

3 – organise all parts of the documentary to make it as interesting and interactive as possible

4 – get feedback on the documentary, see if we can improve it any further

5 – publish the documentary on a website in both English and Punjabi and try to promote the documentary in Sikh communities in Punjab, Delhi etc.

[SevadaarEKhalsa]

These Jehovas got their booklets (Watchtower) in over 400 languages. I have often been visited by these people, and yes they are very cunning.

I agree that we should make a documentary, but will the poor Sikhs that got no medicine and education listen to that? Khalsa Aid has a video of a Nihang (you can question the level of his faith in Sikhi though) converting to Christanity simply because they paid for his medication expenses.

Awareness is needed but helping the weaker sections of society is necessary.

Half of these poor people start going to deras and others become Christians.

Therefore we shouldn't donate to SGPC but open Khalsa schools and Khalsa clinics throughout Punjab (atleast 1 per district to start, then 1 per tehsil). If SGPC even used 5% of the yearly donations we would have 1 Khalsa school per district of Punjab.

[Bundha]

Yes they were Jehova Witnesses.

Very cunning, always very polite, no matter what argument you put to them they push it aside and carry on with their preaching. It is really a waste of time with them as ultimately they believe that unless you follow Jesus you are going to hell.

They aim for the vunerable, the needy and one who is not too secure in his/her own faith.

Here are a few things to throw at them :

(1) Can God make a mistake? Can His prophet make a mistake, like Jesus? Then how come The Watchtower society has made predictions in the 19th Century to the 20th Century , not one not two, but dozens of predictions none of which have come true. Even one failed prophecy is one too many.

(2) Has the organization made prophecies that have not come true? Jesus warns us against those who claim to be prophets, yet whose prophecies go unfulfilled.

(3) why only 144,000 get into heaven ? At one time they taught that heaven was closed in 1881, now they believe it closed in the mid 1930s.

(4) Lying is part of "theocratic war strategy." A JW can lie to someone if they are not entitled to know the truth.

(5) The Jehovah Witnesses believe without the aid of their organization it is impossible to understand the Bible or God’s will. New World translation Bible is produced by the Watchtower.

The names of the translators and their qualifications are not available from the Watchtower Society.

Qualified Hebrew and Greek scholars have identified the New World Translation as an unreliable and corrupted translation.

[Harpreet_Singh]

That entire rant about dealing with it at its root cause in canada, is very inaccurate.

While Christianity is the backbone of American politics, that is not the case in canada. And there is not any large scale epidemic of sikhs converting to christianity in toronto or vancouver. Any evidence contrary evidence that suggests the opposite is welcome. Ie. Any actual evidence tracing missionaries to these cities.

Sikhs in America might be a bit more susceptable to christian influence, particularly if they live in areas with little sikh population. But even then, by and large the sikhs of America have done an extremely good job in retaining their identity.

[Harpreet_Singh]

In fact, from a language and cultural standpoint an actual study was recently done.

"The group with the highest language retention is Punjabi: Some 33 per cent of third-generation children have mastered the language.

“While immigrant groups of European origin have had more difficulty preserving their language over time, more recent immigrant groups, such as those who speak Spanish, Chinese or Punjabi, are generally more likely to maintain theirs,” says the report, titled “Evolution of Immigrant-language Transmission in Canada.”

http://www.thestar.com/news/investigations/immigration/article/1004387--immigrant-languages-thrive-amongst-first-generation-canadians?bn=1

[West London Singh]

'Punjabi Churches', Harpreet. We neither have them at any significant level in the UK, neither would we tolerate them for even one second. In Canada, however, I see them everywhere in the Greater Vancouver area. Its normal and OK for you but to us UK Sikhs is is far from normal and OK. Out of all my relatives in the UK not one has ever converted to Islam, despite the paranoia. In contrast, of all my relations in Canada at least a dozen or so have become evangelical christians. I stand by what I said....the root of the problem is in Toronto and Vancouver, but we are all now paying the price...because of the inaction and lethargy of the Candian sangat.

[Harpreet_Singh]

'Punjabi Churches', Harpreet. We neither have them at any significant level in the UK, neither would we tolerate them for even one second. In Canada, however, I see them everywhere in the Greater Vancouver area. Its normal and OK for you but to us UK Sikhs is is far from normal and OK. Out of all my relatives in the UK not one has ever converted to Islam, despite the paranoia. In contrast, of all my relations in Canada at least a dozen or so have become evangelical christians. I stand by what I said....the root of the problem is in Toronto and Vancouver, but we are all now paying the price...because of the inaction and lethargy of the Candian sangat.

I'd suggest getting back to the issue at hand. Somehow connecting christian missionaries in punjab to random cities in North America is based on nothing but maybe a personal issue on your end.

Other then the punjabi translated literature of jehova witnesses there isn't any huge issue in regards to sikhs converting to christianity in major sikh centres of Canada. I'm sure if there was, in the last 40 years there would have been one punjabi newspaper covering such incidents. Which I have yet to see.

However, the real threat is probably a general apathy towards sikhi. Which I'm sure is an issue everywhere.

Also, blaming sikh populations for the popularity of the American evangelical movement is funny. It is embedded into American culture (mostly middle america, you will not find such movements on the coasts of america in ny and cali. Which ironically, is where all the sikhs live!)

[West London Singh]

'Middle America', Harpreet, is where the money comes from. Middle America supplies and bibles, the pamphlets, the literature, the resources...but in my experience the foot soldiers doing the actual damage in rural Punjab are the Canadian ex-Sikhs. Let me tell you of how my own relations (christian) from Canada do things......let me tell you of their modus operandi. We all sometimes take holidays with the kids back in the pend but those that have become christian seem to take 3 or 4 family holidays every year to spend back in the pend. Each time they're there they fulfil they're religious duty. After each trip, we find out that flanna flunna family member of theirs has become an isai. They go back to the pend and they work on their chache, chachia, pooah, foofads, masaads and massia. Nobody is safe from them. They see it as their duty to 'save' the people of the pend. At this very moment you can go to any pend in doaba and I guarantee there will be at least one punjabi christian from Canada there on holiday, in each of those villages.

People focus on the public assemblies and services targeting the churas, but let’s be honest, there has always been a christian tradition among the churas in Punjab. It’s nothing new. But the real damage....behind the scenes damage.....are all the jatt sikhs in the villages converting through being brainwashed by their visiting relations from Canada. You'd be every wrong Harpreet, if you saw what I say as a 'personal vendetta against Canada'. Even though we are a UK family I have more close relations in Canada than I do here. I know and understand it well. That is why, over the years, I have always criticised the multiple threads here in which people keep talking about the islamic menace in the UK. The threads in which a great deal is made about the fact that just one sikh girl in half a million has become a muslim. I've always gone onto those threads and explained how I don't understand why we here are making such a big deal about that when over in Canada the Sikhs that discard sikhi and embrace christianity are so brazen that they not only have so many of their punjabi churches all over the place but actively seek recruits from within the sikh community. I just don't understand how a handfull of muslims wanting to convert sikhs with the result of a handfull of sikhs converting can be regarded as a major problem and yet thousands of Punjabi christian wanting to convert sikhs with the result of thousands of sikhs converting to christianity....isn't such a big deal.

Therein lies the difference between the UK and Canadian sangats. The uk sangat get out there and do things. The Canadian sangat seem to be fighting the never ending battle with the Canadian media to try and portray themselves as 'moderate'...normal Canadians. You people do nothing that might damage your good name........you'll do anything that might help you fit in. Its with that kind of attitude that our special basakhi...and nagar kirtans on basakhi......which are obviously called basakhi in every town on earth where sikhs celebrate it......comes to be called 'Khalsa Day parade' in Toronto. In every other city on earth Rupuinder Singh, Kamaljeet Singh and Jaswinder Kaur organise the Basakhi nagar kirtan.........but in Canada Steve Singh, David Singh and Veronica Kaur organise a Khalsa Day Parade. Prime targets for christianity my friend. They don't even have to come searching for you. You take the first step towards them by giving yourselves christian names.