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Old People - Wise?


Balkaar
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'Respect and obey your elders' is a maxim of almost every society. The justification for this idea is that the elderly are wise. I don't know that I entirely agree with this.

Wisdom isn't the corollary of age, but of experience or learning. Just because somebody is advanced in years doesn't necessarily mean that their words possess clout. By all means, an elder can be wise, if they spent their long years on Earth productively studying Gurbani and history, traveling the world or experiencing wonderful things.

I love my grandparents dearly, and respect that they worked hard in their lives, but they are two of the most naive and ignorant people I know. They never travel anywhere but to the Punjab, their tastes in reading are restricted to Des Pardes and Manjit Weekly and they've next to no knowledge of Bani or Itihaas. They think Kes and Amrit Sanchaar are mischievous concoctions by fanatics. Before retirement, their lives consisted of nothing but going to work, and now that they've retired, they waste away their days in front of the television being slowly lobotomised by Indian soap operas. Their views on pretty much everything are crusty and cobwebbed, riddled with fearful superstitions.

When they ask me to perform some physical task I invariably do it out of love and awareness of their frailty. But I don't believe the simple fact that they've managed to avoid being hit by a bus for 80 years compels me to consider them sages or fonts of wisdom.

Beautifully written post Balkar. Enjoyed reading every word of it.

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Depends on ones definition of wise or gyaan. Gurukirpa my family was into Sikhi from when I was born incl 2 generations up the chain and what I was taught I can never payback. Nonetheless, most Punjabi elders are wise in that they have life experience and rarely do they pass on values to the detriment of their own kith & kin. I have some relatives as described but I would not summarily dismiss them or the keemti values they pass on to me - despite how karma dealt them their current existence.

If one is well read and holds an excellent command of languages, has travelled widely or memorised even large amounts of Gurbani does not necessarily make the person wise and worthy of respect of us or Parmatma.

From a Sikhi angle 'Tat' Gyaan and increasing spirituality is more important than just gyaan. Otherwise one ends up in a situation as described in Asa Di Vaar.

Parh parh gaddi laldiai, parh parh bhariai saath
Parh parh beri payeeai, parh parh gadiai khaat.
Parihia jetai baras baraas, parhiai jetai maas.
Parhiai jeti arja, parhiai jetai sass.
Nanak lekhai ik gall, hore huamai jhakhna jhaakh
Meanings of the words : Gaddi – carts; Ladieh – loaded;Bharieh – filled with; Sath – caravan of bulls and camels; Behri paieh – to put in the boat; Khat – a pit, cellar; Sas – breaths; Lekhai – in the Divine account, Divine approval; Ik gal – talk of Divine glory; Hor(u) – other efforts; Jhakhna – futile talk, idle talk.
Likh(i) Likh(i) parhia, Teta karhia.
Bauh tirath bhavia. Teto lavia.
Bauh bhekh kia, dehi dukh(u) dia.
Sauh ve jia, apna kia.
Ann(u) na khaia, sad(u) gavaia.
Bauh dukh(u) paia, duja bhaia.
Baster na pehrai. Ahehnis(i) kehrai.
Mon(i) viguta. Kiou jagai, gur bin(u) suta.
Pag upetand. Apna kia kamana.
Al(u) mal(u) khai, sir chhai pai.
Murakh(i) andhai, pat(i) gavai.
Vin(u) nawai, kichh(u) thae’ na pai.
Rahai behani, marhi masani.
Andh(u) na janai, phir(i) pachutani.
Sat(i) gur(u) bhetey, so such(u) paey.
Her(i) ka nam(u) man(i) vasaey.
Nanak, nadr(i) karey so paey.
As andesey te nekhewal(u), haumai sabad(i) jalaey.2.
Meanings of the words : Likh(i) likh(i) parhia – reading and writing in abundance; Teta – that much more; Karhia – fretting and fuming;Teto – that much; Lavia – to speaks much; Bhekh – to impersonate, to pretend; Dehi – body; Sauh ve’ jia – O, soul ! you must tolerate; Kia –deeds dne; Sad(u) – taste; Duja – other way, path without meditation;Bhaia – liked; Pehrai – wear; Aheh(i) – day; Nis(i) – night ; Kehrai – to bear the pain ; Mon(i) – a vow od silence, Viguta – to go astray; Pug –feet; Upetana – without shoes; Al(u) mal(u) – filth; sir(i) – in the head;Chhai – ash; Murakh – foolish one; Pat(i) – respect; Thaey na pai – not acceptable, not considered in the account; Bebani – in jungles; Andh(u) –foolish men; Phir pachotani – repent later on; Bhetey – meet; Man(i) – in the mind; As – desires; Andesey – fear, worry, apprehensions; Te’ – form;Neh kewal(u) – spotless, absolutely clean; Sabad – through Guru’s words;Jalaey – burns.
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From a Sikhi angle 'Tat' Gyaan and increasing spirituality is more important than just gyaan. Otherwise one ends up in a situation as described in Asa Di Vaar.

Bookish knowledge and that gained from such sources is of less value than the type of knowledge and wisdom that enriches the soul? Is that what you're saying, brother?

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'Respect and obey your elders' is a maxim of almost every society. The justification for this idea is that the elderly are wise. I don't know that I entirely agree with this.

Wisdom isn't the corollary of age, but of experience or learning. Just because somebody is advanced in years doesn't necessarily mean that their words possess clout. By all means, an elder can be wise, if they spent their long years on Earth productively studying Gurbani and history, traveling the world or experiencing wonderful things.

I love my grandparents dearly, and respect that they worked hard in their lives, but they are two of the most naive and ignorant people I know. They never travel anywhere but to the Punjab, their tastes in reading are restricted to Des Pardes and Manjit Weekly and they've next to no knowledge of Bani or Itihaas. They think Kes and Amrit Sanchaar are mischievous concoctions by fanatics. Before retirement, their lives consisted of nothing but going to work, and now that they've retired, they waste away their days in front of the television being slowly lobotomised by Indian soap operas. Their views on pretty much everything are crusty and cobwebbed, riddled with fearful superstitions.

When they ask me to perform some physical task I invariably do it out of love and awareness of their frailty. But I don't believe the simple fact that they've managed to avoid being hit by a bus for 80 years compels me to consider them sages or fonts of wisdom.

You may have added this but did not see it. There is a saying ''Akul siyani, umar nahin'' - Age does not equate to being wise, it's the sense.

I speak my mind, no matter what. If I'm told that the elders did this, or did that and I should obey, I resist and quote that above saying. It's not accepted by many but it gets my point and they have no choice but to submit. I agree that no matter whom or what age, things should be challenged, ask for an explanation. Dhan Guru Nanak J Nirankaar said that ASK do not follow blindly, no matter what it is

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You may have added this but did not see it. There is a saying ''Akul siyani, umar nahin'' - Age does not equate to being wise, it's the sense.

I speak my mind, no matter what. If I'm told that the elders did this, or did that and I should obey, I resist and quote that above saying. It's not accepted by many but it gets my point and they have no choice but to submit. I agree that no matter whom or what age, things should be challenged, ask for an explanation. Dhan Guru Nanak J Nirankaar said that ASK do not follow blindly, no matter what it is

I concur Veerji.

If I am correct, reverence for one's elders is incidental to Punjabi culture. Age, apparently, is the only criterion by which one person may be said to be 'superior' to another. And caste, of course. If a person is more advanced in years than you, to any degree, respecting them is mandatory.

Our Eighth Patshaah was a child, and conventional wisdom would hold that someone older than he was, would be wiser than he was. Sikhi is anything but conventional.

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It is however something that is very noble about Punjabi culture in that the old ones can feel quite safe amongst the young.

At least they are not abused in public and mistreated just for being old, I am thinking groups of young western kids victimising and terrorising an old fella sitting at a bus stop in the UK

purely because the fella is old.

This is not uncommon here.

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I concur Veerji.

If I am correct, reverence for one's elders is incidental to Punjabi culture. Age, apparently, is the only criterion by which one person may be said to be 'superior' to another. And caste, of course. If a person is more advanced in years than you, to any degree, respecting them is mandatory.

Our Eighth Patshaah was a child, and conventional wisdom would hold that someone older than he was, would be wiser than he was. Sikhi is anything but conventional.

Most Asian countries have this elder respect. Chinese, Japanese etc. Italians also have the same thought and practices.

A simple 'I do this because my mother did it, and before her, her mother hence me doing it too'' It's not a valid reason to do it [whatever it is]

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They are probably wiser in other areas than you think. It is only because they have lesser education than yourself that you are saying this. If you have the opportunity to be more wiser due to ur education and learning then maybe you should have discussions with them, for awareness. I used to do that with my grandmother, read to her. If they are able to read Gurmukhi then maybe gift them with a book or dvd related to Sikhi. If they have never had that chance to be part of that environment then how do you expect them to have answers to everything. Do they watch th Sikh channels on TV? Maybe get them?

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