Guru Nanak Was God?

[Guest Jacfsing2]

They found 1500 year old bible where Jesus refers to himself as das/servant of God not his son plus his brother James' gospel teaches that there is only Akal Purakh not the trinity that was introduced by pagan Romans.

I was only comparing "Modern" Christianity to Sikhi, 2000 years can change a lot especially if the faith isn't well-documented throughout time. (Luckily we have our history recorded so we won't have the same problem they do). Also I never mentioned Jesus wasn't humble.

[N30S1NGH]

This topic about Sri guru nanak dev was god or not should be looked at from non duality (impersonal god- non dual all in one, one in all) - advait/advai stand point not duality. Doubts arises only when we discuss this topic in duality.

There are many who would confine sri guru nanak dev ji only sargun saroop satguru (personal god) only. From devotional stand point, its perfectly fine and parvan in gurmat as an spiritual development stage in one's life but from gurmat tat (essence), debate or vichar with other mats this cause all kinds of fundamental theological issues like, we get stuck same way abhramic religions are stuck in duality.

They can simply pose a question- playing devil advocate here as to if satguru nanak dev ji (figure head form- personal god) is permanent then how come he is not in our everyone every moment experience or not in our deep sleep experience?

At that point, we should be able to explain it to them that ultimately satguru nanak dev ji is not confined to form- personal god only, he appear as form and disappear as form to help other human attach with their real self- god. That the real absolute saroop of satguru nanak dev ji is formless gyan saroop - Ikongkar- pure knowledge consciousness/awareness is common matrix of everyone's experience, as it is One changeless/permanent being which is always eternal unchanging timeless permanent, ek ras/akhand- consistent unbroken current pure consciousness which exist in our direct experience in every moment/directly experienced in all three states (awake, dream and sleep) and even when we all gone to deep sleep every day as it gives our consciousness (surat) knowledge that sleep was good/sleep was refreshing/feeling of freshness every day.

[InderjitS]

How would you explain what "shabad guru" is to a person doesn't know much about sikhi in the context of the question was Guru Nanak God?

To me I can explain it very easily to a muslim or any other non-sikh because I don't believe Guru Ji was God in human form. I believe, from evidence from scriptures, that Guru Ji was speaking the reality and truth of God through his actions by showing the light of his magnetic preaching ability and brief powers God had given him to guide humanity to Sikhi.

Vaheguru Sahib can take any form they like and for any length of time, ie in the form of Narsingh killed Harnakash..

The physical body of Guru Ji was also pavitar, otherwise how do we explain charan pahul amrit, it was not merely ceremonial.

[N30S1NGH]

How would you explain what "shabad guru" is to a person doesn't know much about sikhi in the context of the question was Guru Nanak God?

To me I can explain it very easily to a muslim or any other non-sikh because I don't believe Guru Ji was God in human form. I believe, from evidence from scriptures, that Guru Ji was speaking the reality and truth of God through his actions by showing the light of his magnetic preaching ability and brief powers God had given him to guide humanity to Sikhi.

Shabad guru has mool (root) which is essence of shabad guru- shabad gyan- pure knowledge consciousness/awareness common matrix - changeless background - consciousness-surat of every human being in which world/form appears and disappear.

They may not be able to relate to term shabad guru but they can relate shabad guru essence which is shabad gyan/ universal pure awareness/consciouness in all of us as sri guru nanak dev ji says:

ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ਘਰੁ ੪ ॥ सिरीरागु महला १ घरु ४ ॥

Sirīrāg mėhlā 1 gẖar 4. Siree Raag, First Mehl, Fourth House:

ਏਕਾ ਸੁਰਤਿ ਜੇਤੇ ਹੈ ਜੀਅ ॥ एका सुरति जेते है जीअ ॥

Ėkā suraṯ jeṯe hai jī▫a.

There is one awareness among all created beings.

ਸੁਰਤਿ ਵਿਹੂਣਾ ਕੋਇ ਨ ਕੀਅ ॥ सुरति विहूणा कोइ न कीअ ॥

Suraṯ vihūṇā ko▫e na kī▫a.

None have been created without this awareness.

[jkvlondon]

I was only comparing "Modern" Christianity to Sikhi, 2000 years can change a lot especially if the faith isn't well-documented throughout time. (Luckily we have our history recorded so we won't have the same problem they do). Also I never mentioned Jesus wasn't humble.

meant that Trinity is NOT Christian original doctrine it is Ik Akal Purakh...

[Guest]

They found 1500 year old bible where Jesus refers to himself as das/servant of God not his son plus his brother James' gospel teaches that there is only Akal Purakh not the trinity that was introduced by pagan Romans.

I always have said that the Christianity from back 1500 years ago had such a similar concept of sikhi. That's why I will always say that Jesus was a bhagat.

[Koi]

Gur Nanak Nanak Har Soe.

Ang 864

My Guru is Nanak, and Guru Nanak is god himself.

[sikhni777]

The punjabi translation of Gur Nanak Nanak Har Soe is given as

Gur Nanak uus Parmatma dha roop hai

ਗੁਰੁ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਹਰਿ ਸੋਇ ॥੪॥੭॥੯॥

गुरु नानकु नानकु हरि सोइ ॥४॥७॥९॥

Gur Nānak Nānak har so▫e. ||4||7||9||

Nanak is the Guru and Nanak himself is He, the Lord.

ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰੂ ਹੈ ਅਤੇ ਨਾਨਕ ਖੁਦ ਹੀ ਉਹ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਹੈ। (Nanak Guru hai aate khudh hi oh Swami hae --- Meaning Lord - Not GOD)

When Guru Nanak Dev Ji came out of the river, he arrived and said he had been to see Akaal Purakh. He told us Ik On Kar

Therefore Guru Nanak Dev Ji had the Spirit of God. He was not God himself. God was still in sach Khand. Guru Nanak Dev Ji came to tell us more about God through the Japji Sahib.

Bibi Nanki his sister - saw the spirit of God in Guru Nanak Dev Ji - therefore she said to her father not to slap him after sacha saudha. Baba Nanak ji da Sacha Sauda..

Mehta Kalu ne ek Din Baba Nanak ji
Nu Kol Baitha Lea te keha..
Mehta Kalu :- Dekh Nanak, tu mera
ek o ek Putt ae.. Tu apna
Deewanapan Shad de te Koi Kamh
Dhanda Shuru Kar.. Tenu mai smjha
Smjha k Thak gea haan.. Par tu
menu te Saare Parivaar Nu Dukhi
Kita hoyea hai..
Baba Nanak :- Pita Ji.., Mai twanu
Dukhi Nahi Krna choundha.. Par eh
Sab mere Vas ch Nahi hai.. Eh Koi
Hor Kar Reha Hai.. Mai kosish
karanga ki Hun twanu mere krke
Dukhi na hona Pve..
Mehta Kalu :- Nanak., Mai tenu
jehra v Kamh Krn phejea.. Tu ulta
Nuksaan hi Karkf ayea.. Chal joh
hoyea so hoyea., Eh Kuj Rupee Lai
Jah te koi Vapaar krna Shuru Krde..
Baba Nanak :- Pita ji., menu te
vapaar krna aounda nahi..
Mehta Kalu :- Mere Bache.. Mai Tere
Nal Ghar da ek Hor Banda Pejanga..
Oh tenu Dsega ki krna.. Tenu mai
Thora Rupee Devanga.. Jad Jaach aa
jawegi fir Hor Paise Devanga..
Eh Lai 20 rupee..
Mehta Kalu ne Baba Nanak ji nal
Bala ji nu Phejea..
Baba Nanak ji 20 rupee Lai k Vapaar
Krn Turr paye.. Nal Bala ji c..
Jad 12 k Km paienda Kar Lea ta Ek
Pind ayea jehda Nam''Chourkana''c..
Baba Ji ne Dekhea ki ehthe ta Bahut
Saare Jogi baithe c.. Samaadi La k..
Baba Nanak ji ek Jogi Kol baith
Gaye..
Jogi ne dekhea ki eh Balak Koi Aam
Balak nahi Lgda..
Guru Ji ne ohnu Puchea..
Baba Nanak :- Saint Ji., tusi is Jungle
vich Baithe ho.. Eni Thand hai.. Tusi
Kapde nahi Paaye.. Twade Kol te
Lgda Roti v ni Haigi..
Jogi :- Sun Balak.. Sanu Sab kuj
Milda hai.. Asi v Tere vrge c
Phelan.. Sada v Ghar Baar c.. Par
asi Dunia da Sab kuj Shad ta.. Te
ehthe aa gaye haan..
Saade Kol Roti nahi hai.. J koi de
Jawe ta theek.. Nahi te Phukhe hi
Rehnde Haan..
Baba Nanak :- Tusi Hun Kinne Din
toh Phukhe j..
Jogi :- ajh 7 Din ho gaye ne...Asi kuj
ni khaada..
Baba Nanak :- Saint Ji., Twada Naam
ki Hai..
Jogi :- Mera Naam Saintrean Hai..
Mai ehna da Sardaar Haan.. Par
kahda Sardaar.. Bus eko Rab da
Naam jpida Bus..
Baba Nanak :- Saint Ji., j twanu Roti
Paani Leadaiye ta ki Kha Lawoge..??
Jogi :- Putt., tu ajey chota ae.. Sadi
Fikar na kar..
Baba Nanak ji ne Sochea ki eh Rab
de bande ne.. 7 din de Phukhe ne..
Ehna nu Roti lea k deni chaidhi hai..
Mere Kol te Paise v ne..
Baba Nanak :- Jogi.. Eh Lwo 20
rupee... Te Roti Paani Lai aawo..
Jogi Hairaan reh gea te keha..
Jogi :- Bache., teri umar Choti iai..
Par Dil vadha hai.. tu Sadi fikar na
kar.. Eh Paise Twade Pita ji ne
twanu koi Hor Kamh karn nu Dite
hone ne..
Baba Nanak ji ne 1 Min Lai kuj
Sochea.. Te fir Keha..
Baba Nanak :- Tusi Meri Fikar na
kro.. Te eh Paise Lai Lwo..
Jogi :- Theek Hai ji.. J twadi ehi Rja
hai.. Ta paise rehn do.. Te Samaan
lea dvo..
Guru ji ne Jogi nu Samaan lea k
Langar Shaka Dita.. Te Vapis Ghar
walh turr paye..
Jad Guru Ji chal gaye ta Jogi Fir
Samaadi Loun Lga ta Ohnu Hun
Akha band krn te v Baba Nanak hi
disn Lag paye c..
Hun jad Guru Ji Vapis Gharwalh turr
paye ta Bala v Thora Gusse ch c..
Baba Nanak ji nu v Darr Lag reha
c.. Paise ta Vapaar krn nu dite c..
Hun Ghar jah k ki dasange.. Ohna ne
Bala ji nu keha..
Baba Nanak :- Bala.. Saade Kol te
koi Paise nahi.. J ohna ne 20 rupee
da Hisaab Manghea fir..?? pita ji
Sanu Gusse honge..
Bala Ji :- Mai te saaf keh dena..
Mera koi Kasoor nahi c.. Mai te
twanu Mna V Kita c.. Hun joh
hovega Dekh Leo..
Dunia Di Fikar Krn wala Nanak Ajh
khud 20rupee bdle fikar vich hai..
Jad Talwandi Aa gaye ta Baba Nanak
di Himat na hoyi Ghar Vapis jaan
di.. Oh Pind de bahar ek Jagah te
baith gaye..
Sari Raat Langh gai.. Baba Nanak ji
Ghar na gaye..
Agle Din Mehta Kalu ji nu pta lga ki
Bala te aa gea par Nanak ni Ayea ta
ohnu nu v Fikar hon lag pai.. Te oh
Sochn lge..
''..Mera putt Nanak kidar gea..?? j
Bala aa gea ta Oh kyu ni ayea..??
kite Chor te ni Pai gaye..?? Kite
Nanak Russ te ni gea.. Jah fir
Gwaach te ni gea..''
Mehta Kalu ne Bala ji nu apne Ghar
Bulayea.. Te Puchea Nanak kithe
hai..
Bala ji ne Sari Gal Das Diti.. te eh v
Das Dita ki Baba Nanak kithe Baitha
hai..
Mehta Kalu ji nu Bda Gussa ayea..
Te oh Gusse ch Ghar de bahar nikal
gaye jithe Nanak Baitha c..
Mata Tripta ji ne Dekhea ki Kalu ji
bde Gusse Nal gaye ne..
Maa da Dil Maa da hi hunda hai..
Ohnu ne Jaldi Jaldi Bebe Nanaki nu
keha..
Mata Tripta :- Jaldi jah ni Bachiye
apne Peo de Magar Jah. Te apne
Veer nu bacha lai ohde toh...
Bebe Nanaki v Mehta Kalu ji de
Magar Magar Turr pai..
Mehta Kalu ohthe pounch gaye..
Jithe Dunia da Maalik Nanak apne
Rang ch baitha c..
Mehta Kalu ne Gusse Nal Baah toh
farh k uthaa lea te puchea..
Mehta kalu :- Kithe e paise..?? das
kithe e Vapaar.. Kithe e Rupee.. Hun
chup kyu a.. Bolda kyu ni..
Baba Nanak ji chup krke khde rahe..
Mehta Kalu nu Hor Gussa aa gea..
Te Ek Chapear Baba Nanak ji di Gal
te Maar diti.. Par Gussa ajey v bda
C.. Ek Hor Chapear Douji Gal te
Maar diti..
Dunia da Malik Chup krke apne peo
di Maar kha reha hai.. Akh vichn
nikke Nikke Hanju Nikal aaye..
Dunia da Noor... Rab da Roop..
Jehde Nam te ajh Sari Dunia Crore
Crore Rupee Daan kar dindi hai..
Ajh oh Nanak 20 rupee badle maar
kha Reha hai..
Ene chir nu Bebe Nanaki ne Apne
peo nu Jaffi paa Lai te keha..
''.. na pita ji.. Mere veer nu na
Maaro.. Eh Rab da Roop hai.. Eh
Fakeer hai.. Ehnu na Maaro..''
Kalu da Gussa kuj thanda hoyea..
lok v ikathe ho gaye c.. 3-4 Bande
aggey ho k Kalu nu farhea te
Smjhoun Lghe..
Jad Bebe Nanaki ne apne Veer di Gal
te Neel paye Dekhe ta behosh ho k
Digg pai..
Mehta Kalu da Gussa jad thanda
hoyea ta fir oh Vapis Ghar gea..
Eh Gal Sari Talwandi ch Fael gai ki
Mehta Kalu ne Baba Nanak nu
Maarea..
Jad Rai Bulaar nu pta Lga te oh
Mehta Kalu nu Gusse hoyea..
Rai Bulaar :- Kalu.. Tu smjhda kyu
ni.. Tera putt Nanak Rab da Roop
hai.. Tu 20 rupee mere toh Lai
Janda.. Aggey toh Nanak nu na kuj
kahi. J eh Koi Nuksaan kre te mere
toh Zyada Paise Lai jea kar.. Par is
Rab de Roop nu na kuj keha kar.

[Guest Jacfsing2]

I always have said that the Christianity from back 1500 years ago had such a similar concept of sikhi. That's why I will always say that Jesus was a bhagat.

So why'd they change Christianity?

[Guest]

So why'd they change Christianity?

The Romans changed many things in their benefit.