Corruption In Gurdwara Committee - Help Me Make A Change?!

[Guest fromherkingsareborn]

WJKK WJKF !

This post will be long so I apologize beforehand, but please provide some help.

Prior to going to this Gurdwara, I had heard a lot about the committee and the granthis in the gurdwara. This includes people who have observed swearing and arguments bewteen granthis and committtee meemebers in the darbar hall in the presence of SGGSJi. I also found out that they do not do Rehraas at a set time and sometimes they do it at 7:30pm. In addition to this I heard the granthis and parthaan of the gurdwara chose to completely stop langar apart from Sundays, despite there being classes on some weekdays in the evening. Also, they use the sangats money to order pizza for the other granthis birthday but when the sangat came in they did not offer them anything and told them to eat the leftover sweets on the table. And finally, the most surprising thing, for once it was the committee members trying to fight for the correct running of the gurdwara but the granthis and parthaan shut them off. All of this spurred me to go investigate for myself..

So, about 2 weeks ago I visited a Gurdwara in the outskirts of the city center. It was midday on a Friday, so I didn't expect there to be much sangat as the Gurdwara is further away from houses. Now, when I arrived to the Gurdwara, I went in and sat in the presence of Maharaj Ji. There was a tape playing Shabads on quite low. So after a little while, the Granthi came in and told me to come and get Prashaad from the him, so I got up and put my hands together, the then proceeds to putting the Prashaad in my hands as well as fully touching my hands (he didn't know if I had washed my hands or not).

Seeing as I had just got up, I made my way into the langar hall and waited for him to come out, once he came I asked him what time Rehraas in recited in the Gurdwara. He mirrored what people had told me beforehand, he said that there isn't anytime, they do it whenever they can, even 7:30pm, I was glad that he didn't lie, that was a start I guess, but how wrong I was..

I then asked him what they do after Rehraas, he said that they do the Ardaas and that's it. I asked them if they do Shabads or the Aarti after Rehraas, but he said no. I then asked about other classes and programmes that they have (at this point we were sitting in the langar hall). He responded to me saying that the sangat and naujawan are not interested in classes of any type. But he did say that they have yoga classes and Punjabi classes on, and that the turnout is not great. I told him that if I were to get a slot and gather sangat then would that be fine - he started to hesitate and then changed the topic by saying 'well you'll have to pay for the ingredients for langar and then pay for the electricity and gas and cook yourself'. I was a bit surprised as this should be coming from the gurdwara's part as there was no talk of any akhand paath, wedding etc.

I do kirtan and shabads in different Gurdwareh and I genuinely wanted to have a slot at that gurdwara too. So I asked if there was any way that on a weekday after Rehraas I could do the Aarti or on the weekend if I could have a 10 minute slot for a shabad and if I'm lucky then an hour slot so I could do english katha for the youth. But he laughed at me and said no, he said that they already have contracts with other ragis so it's not possible. So, i pushed him into giving me a time slot during a weekdays but even then he didn't let me. He also then said that no body other than the ragis and the granthis can go on stage, indicating that i can't do anything.

I then very politely asked for half an hour to do simran only - and he had the adacity to say, why would you want to do anything here when there is no sanagat and that the darbar hall is empty. When he said this I was so shocked, I told him that it doesn't matter for the sangat as Maharaj Ji himself is present but even then he didn't take his words back. The conversation kept going back and forth and this point and i wasn't getting anywhere. I tried everything, but he laughed it all of.

Now here is the bit which aggravated me, I asked him if he was part of the committee and he said he was. He then asked me why I asked him that and whether I wanted to join the committee. Now, I had no intention of joining any committee, but just to see what his answer was going to be I said that I did want to be part of the committee - you know what he did then, he laughed in my face and said 'well I'm sorry, but you can't'. I was shocked at this but I decided to laugh back and said 'Oh, really, is it because you think I am a child?' (I'm 21 btw). He then laughed even more and said no, that wast the reason, so i asked him what the reason was and with MASSIVE smirk he said it was because I was a female. I instantly tried to argue my way around this, telling him that this is going against what out gurus say. The worst part - he didn't give a !! He said why would females be on the committee when it consists of all males who are old. I always asked about arguments during meetings and he owned up saying that they have arguments etc in the darbar hall.

So basically, i didn't get anywhere and i told him that i will be back lol.

But truth is, I have no idea what I plan to do - all I know is that I want to and that I will do something about this corruption - but this is where i need all your help. I would like you guys to give me some suggestions as to what I can do - education-wise, I think I know enough to argue their points. I'm looking for action to take place.

I genuinely appreciate all of you who have taken your time outto read this and offer advice.

[singhbj singh]

Start your own Jatha or establish an Istari Satsang.

Do Sukhmani Sahib paath & Kirtan on weekends at home an invite Sangat.

Look how they do it in UAE

https://www.facebook.com/SikhsInDubai/

[Guest Jacfsing2]

WJKK WJKF !

This post will be long so I apologize beforehand, but please provide some help.

Prior to going to this Gurdwara, I had heard a lot about the committee and the granthis in the gurdwara. This includes people who have observed swearing and arguments bewteen granthis and committtee meemebers in the darbar hall in the presence of SGGSJi. I also found out that they do not do Rehraas at a set time and sometimes they do it at 7:30pm. In addition to this I heard the granthis and parthaan of the gurdwara chose to completely stop langar apart from Sundays, despite there being classes on some weekdays in the evening. Also, they use the sangats money to order pizza for the other granthis birthday but when the sangat came in they did not offer them anything and told them to eat the leftover sweets on the table. And finally, the most surprising thing, for once it was the committee members trying to fight for the correct running of the gurdwara but the granthis and parthaan shut them off. All of this spurred me to go investigate for myself..

So, about 2 weeks ago I visited a Gurdwara in the outskirts of the city center. It was midday on a Friday, so I didn't expect there to be much sangat as the Gurdwara is further away from houses. Now, when I arrived to the Gurdwara, I went in and sat in the presence of Maharaj Ji. There was a tape playing Shabads on quite low. So after a little while, the Granthi came in and told me to come and get Prashaad from the him, so I got up and put my hands together, the then proceeds to putting the Prashaad in my hands as well as fully touching my hands (he didn't know if I had washed my hands or not).

Seeing as I had just got up, I made my way into the langar hall and waited for him to come out, once he came I asked him what time Rehraas in recited in the Gurdwara. He mirrored what people had told me beforehand, he said that there isn't anytime, they do it whenever they can, even 7:30pm, I was glad that he didn't lie, that was a start I guess, but how wrong I was..

I then asked him what they do after Rehraas, he said that they do the Ardaas and that's it. I asked them if they do Shabads or the Aarti after Rehraas, but he said no. I then asked about other classes and programmes that they have (at this point we were sitting in the langar hall). He responded to me saying that the sangat and naujawan are not interested in classes of any type. But he did say that they have yoga classes and Punjabi classes on, and that the turnout is not great. I told him that if I were to get a slot and gather sangat then would that be fine - he started to hesitate and then changed the topic by saying 'well you'll have to pay for the ingredients for langar and then pay for the electricity and gas and cook yourself'. I was a bit surprised as this should be coming from the gurdwara's part as there was no talk of any akhand paath, wedding etc.

I do kirtan and shabads in different Gurdwareh and I genuinely wanted to have a slot at that gurdwara too. So I asked if there was any way that on a weekday after Rehraas I could do the Aarti or on the weekend if I could have a 10 minute slot for a shabad and if I'm lucky then an hour slot so I could do english katha for the youth. But he laughed at me and said no, he said that they already have contracts with other ragis so it's not possible. So, i pushed him into giving me a time slot during a weekdays but even then he didn't let me. He also then said that no body other than the ragis and the granthis can go on stage, indicating that i can't do anything.

I then very politely asked for half an hour to do simran only - and he had the adacity to say, why would you want to do anything here when there is no sanagat and that the darbar hall is empty. When he said this I was so shocked, I told him that it doesn't matter for the sangat as Maharaj Ji himself is present but even then he didn't take his words back. The conversation kept going back and forth and this point and i wasn't getting anywhere. I tried everything, but he laughed it all of.

Now here is the bit which aggravated me, I asked him if he was part of the committee and he said he was. He then asked me why I asked him that and whether I wanted to join the committee. Now, I had no intention of joining any committee, but just to see what his answer was going to be I said that I did want to be part of the committee - you know what he did then, he laughed in my face and said 'well I'm sorry, but you can't'. I was shocked at this but I decided to laugh back and said 'Oh, really, is it because you think I am a child?' (I'm 21 btw). He then laughed even more and said no, that wast the reason, so i asked him what the reason was and with MASSIVE smirk he said it was because I was a female. I instantly tried to argue my way around this, telling him that this is going against what out gurus say. The worst part - he didn't give a !! He said why would females be on the committee when it consists of all males who are old. I always asked about arguments during meetings and he owned up saying that they have arguments etc in the darbar hall.

So basically, i didn't get anywhere and i told him that i will be back lol.

But truth is, I have no idea what I plan to do - all I know is that I want to and that I will do something about this corruption - but this is where i need all your help. I would like you guys to give me some suggestions as to what I can do - education-wise, I think I know enough to argue their points. I'm looking for action to take place.

I genuinely appreciate all of you who have taken your time outto read this and offer advice.

I wouldn't call the Gurdwara corrupt due to the limited transparency you mentioned. I think this Gurdwara's big problem is not building the Sangat to follow Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji's message, or probably not able to do kirtan 7 days a week due to scheduling. I also think it's the Sangat that has allowed the sexist ideas and youth not participating in the committee, not the committee being corrupt itself. To make a change in a Non-PunjPyare owned Gurdwara you have to win votes.

[Guest fromherkingsareborn]

i would suggest to make friends and links with some true sikhs who often come there to gurudwara sahib, make ur circle with atleast 10-12 true people and then u can decide further, may be u talk to the whole sangats gathering on some special day like some gurupurab etc. But first talk to true sikhs one by one and then proceed.

Yes, that idea did occur to me and I have started to widen my circle a little bit more with members of the Gurdwara and a few normal committee members. I hope that getting together an having a civilized conversation would start things moving slowly. Thank you for you help :)

Start your own Jatha or establish an Istari Satsang.

Do Sukhmani Sahib paath & Kirtan on weekends at home an invite Sangat.

Look how they do it in UAE

https://www.facebook.com/SikhsInDubai/

I am trying to start a jatha funnily enough, it's been something i've wanted to do for a little while now and connect sangat whilst doing simran and kirtan.

About doing kirtan and paath at home - my parents would never approve of that - i think that's also a bit of a barrier, as i haven't got that sort of support from my parents unfortunately.

[Guest fromherkingsareborn]

I wouldn't call the Gurdwara corrupt due to the limited transparency you mentioned. I think this Gurdwara's big problem is not building the Sangat to follow Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji's message, or probably not able to do kirtan 7 days a week due to scheduling. I also think it's the Sangat that has allowed the sexist ideas and youth not participating in the committee, not the committee being corrupt itself. To make a change in a Non-PunjPyare owned Gurdwara you have to win votes.

I guess I did take a step too far in mentioning corruption but I feel so strongly about this.

They have many requests to do programs in the week for free but they just don't want to know. I genuinely think they are trying to save money.

How do I win votes without evening being on any committee board? :( would they even listen to me and those who side with me?

[Guest Do it]

Go for it, make a change, do it for all of the women. Gurdwarra committees need diversity in age, gender etc.

[Guest fromherkingsareborn]

Go for it, make a change, do it for all of the women. Gurdwarra committees need diversity in age, gender etc.

All I know is that i will do something for sure, but i just need a little guidance on how.

I don't know where to start. Any ideas?

[simran345]

Penji it's great to see you so motivated and your passion in Sikhi.

Implement the ideas the brothers and sisters above have mentioned, it's the committee you need to approach to bring about any change and Sangat members will help with that. The more numbers the better it is that they listen to the Sangat.

I'm not sure what else I can add that's not already been advised, but contact Basics of Sikhi and ask if they can make any suggestions.

They have females doing parchar, so maybe talking to them about it will assist you with your progress.

Well done for your approach to this.

[singhbj singh]

Waheguru ji ka khalsa

Waheguru ji ki fateh

Honestly all Gurdwara's are run in a professional manner.

From hiring Raagis to prime time slots aren't given without financial consideration or favour.

Some Committees do allow Amateur nights as well as days at certain times.

For example Akj's, Dodra Sadhsangat etc

Catch is, their Smagams attract huge Sangat which fill golaks.

Committees either works for money or votes :-)

In India there is a tradition of doing Shabad Chownki after Sukhasan.

This is entirely done by Sangat with no interference from governing body.

Take a look

Request Sangat to start one at your local Gurdwara

[Guest Do it]

These men are attached to culture and are closed minded. Why don't u ask an elder male relative or friend to sit and speak with them?

They will probably use your age and inexperience against u. If that's the case and there is no way you would get elected to the committee, do you have an older female relative who may be able to Stand in for you?

You could act as her advisor if you feelthat you are up to it.