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You're right. I was also thinking about the 7 minute Japji Sahib as well. If the fellow below did bani, I imagine it would take them 7 minutes or less.

Who manages to do JapJi Sahib in 7 minutes???!?? That's mental. I can barely get it done under 25 minutes. I try to pronounce each word clearly as possible. 7 minutes is just disrespectful isn't it? Or is that the norm? Yup - that's another question regarding Gurbani I was thinking about last night. Also, what are the meanings of "Raag Aasa Mahala [insert number]", and also "Raag Gujree Mahala [insert number]"? There's so many other examples that I can't remember right now. Does the number represent which Guru Ji composed that particular quatrain or am I wrong?

A chance to experience a more focused approach to being a camper! Over the last few years there have been many camps and workshops addressing needs of younger children and newcomers into sikhi however a gap has always existed in regards to developing the spirituality and motivation towards spiritual effort for practising amritdhaaris. Seeing this gap sevadaars sought to address it by taking inspiration from Sant Baba Harnam Singh Rampur Khere wale’s Naam Abhiaas Kamai smagams which are still being held to this day in India. Albeit slightly modified, several camps have taken place in and around the Uk with the motivation and optimism of sevadaars around the UK. Now we hope to make this a regular occurrence. So what can you expect: - Collective Amrit Vela ishnaan and Parkash darshan - Personal Nitnem and collective sangat time - Simple Langar and sleeping arrangements - Personal Challenge - Hukamnama Veechar of Mahapurkh recordings - Also your personal requirements added in - A quick energiser which will keep you going for months - Sangat of like minded practising Gursikhs - A chance to just focus on naam bani,veechar and sangat without distractions - Separate Singh/ Singhni camps. If you are interested please fill out the form at the boss website asap! Places are limited and it is strictly first come first served. We will email you a campers pack and a list of what essentials to bring when you have a place confirmed. There is no cost for this camp although donations are always welcome for future initiatives. Singhnia Camp is on the 28th to 30th January 2011 Closing date for application is Fri 21st January 2011 Singhs camp is 4th to 6th February 2011. Closing date for application is 28th January 2011 Both begin at evening times so that it bodes well with people travelling from home towns. The camps will take place at Leicester Guru Tegh Bahadur Gurdwara. Any questions pls contact 07882 340954 Strictly over 18’s only. Visit www.boss-uk.org to apply! Keertan from the second Kaur's Kamai camp that took place in Leicester

WJKK WJKF Thought I should share,for years I did paat without pause at the II , in Gurbani, and wondered too where is my patience and improvement in life. I can say hand on my heart that if one pauses for at II for at least 2 seconds before moving on to the next line, it will work wonders for you in life. The stopping at II is protocol of Gurbani and is an ang, we are to be in sehaj and reflect at what we are reading, the joy of this is brilliant. In a fast computerised world of today and brushing of gora culture upon us we don't have time, your mind will play the ultimate twisted trick as to "cum on hurry up", timings of Japji will go from the normal 7 minutes to about 25.The ultimate ras of Gurbani is the key and goal, and fruits will show on that very day on just how your day goes..care to try anyone, or am I on my todd??

We are not here to emmulate, compete or compare. The point i was making if it works for you then it's all good. Just cause our veer takes 7 mins does not mean he is not doing it correctly. If anyone wants a DVD on how to Bani Shud then message me and I will try and get it to you. WGJKWGJKF

Oh....if such luminous Sikhs as Baba Deep Singh Ji and Sant Bhindrawale Ji use to do Japji Sahib at a speedy tempo, then paapi's like us can't emulate that. I'll stick with the slow and steady.

Today the joint statement released by various Sikh temples, Community representatives and Student groups condemning the English Defence League (EDL) is being aired around the clock on Sunrise Radio 1458am. To hear a clipping of the news, please visit the below link: http://www.turbancampaign.com/updates/sikh-community-joint-statement-featured-on-sunrise-radio/ Alternatively to download the audio click below: http://turbancampaign.com/edl/multimedia/sunrise_radio.ogg.

I find at this early stage, varying speed is beneficial. So I do have times when I go through at a relatively leisurely pace, especially with Rehras as one can chill a bit more in the evenings and other times I do use a more faster approach. The fast approach to recital is useful to test one's state of memorisation. Also I do find that as one does bani more and more, and remembers more of it, the speed of recital naturally seems to increase. Personally I find this can sometimes compromise the level of semantic analysis that takes place compared to a more relaxed reading. But then sometimes I focus on arth and sometimes my focus is more on the actual sounds rather than meaning. I don't know if it is down to pure laziness but I find myself trying to concentrate more and more on the sound these days?

Hi, I have started doing paath everyday now though I am currently just doing Jap Ji Sahib atm slowly building up to the rest. Naturally i want to keep 5Ks on me at all times as well. I understand that you have to keep ur 5 ks on u at all times which i think i can do. I was thinking that how can u keep your kachera on during shower and i some how mentally figured it out lol! With regards to to the kirpan im not sure.....can i tie some pagh material around my head and then put the kirpan in safely? i spoke to a girl and she goes her parent who have been amritdharis for a very long time put their kirpans to the side. Another amritdhari said that i have to wear a keski? but when i asked him why you have to wear a keski they didnt know why. I wud be great if sangat could provide me with a clear answer....as i am confused and i want to keep the 5Ks on me at all times now....Many Thanks...

FINAL DAY for Kaur's Kami camp registration!!! Apply online at www.boss-uk.org

Fateh Respect for the honesty regarding your detractors. Takes a noble man to do that.

Personally I don't even think EDL has any 'cause'. Firstly, they blindly support British troops, who themselves just go where they are told and follow orders, regardless of the justice of the cause or not. I'm not saying all Muslims are angels, because they are not, but we should all know that soldiers have committed abuses on Muslim lands (especially American ones) and the recent invasions has resulted in far more deaths of innocent Muslims (including women and children) than British soldiers. So I'm not at all surprised that sullay protest against the soldiers and call them names. If the British soldiers were on Sikh land doing similar, I'd be protesting against them myself probably. Then you have that whole bull narrative by some ignorant whites here that their 'culture' is somehow under attack? This one is plain lies. No one stops white people drinking, 'shagging' around, learning the English language, cooking and eating English food, going to pubs, Morris dancing etc. So how is their 'culture' under attack? With grooming, we need to grasp that it is elements of the Pakistani community who have been targeting dimwitted Sikhs girls for this, not the ubiquitous 'Islam'. Now the Pakistanis may well be Muslims, but not all Muslims are like these particular Pakistanis. To make out otherwise is straight lying. Plus, as alluded to earlier, the real issue is more the westernisation of the Sikh girls in question that has them behaving more like white girls than Sikh girls in anycase. This is what makes them go off with Tom, Mick or Abdul. So we have a genuine complaint about the effects of white/English culture on our people they need to acknowledge. I tell you, you know when people are on dodgy territory when they are blaming some other group for everything, without taking anytime to reflect on how their own behaviour plays a part in the mess. EDL people embody this (as do some of our own lot). In the end, descending half drunk on towns, screaming E-E-E-EDL! trying to intimidate all and sundry is not fighting Islamist extremism but just typical white football yobbery lifestyle. No sane intelligent Sikh has any business to be in the middle of such nonsense in my opinion. If EDL want to protest, let them protest against their own government's warmongering first and foremost. But they wont, because they are mainly working class chavs who haven't got the balls to face their ruling classes. As for the problem of idiotic, naive, lust ridden, disloyal girls from Sikh backgrounds being groomed or converted. That is something the panth has to figure out how to resolve itself. No one is going to do it for us.

FYI - Balwindar Rana DOES NOT run the Turban Campaign. He is a spokesperson for United Against Fascism. Please consider spending time and reading through the list of signatories and who they represent.

Two days remaining untill the Kaur's Kamai camp registration deadline!! Apply online at www.boss-uk.org This is a golden opportunity for bibiya to get together, have sangat of like-minded gursikhs and focus purley on Maharaj without any worldy distractions.. Dont miss out jee! A photograph from a previous Kamai camp, during a workshop on learning how to do Maharajs Seva/Bishaaee

Three days till Kaur's Kamai camp registration deadline!! Places are filling up fast!! visit www.boss-uk.org to confirm your place

Some pictures from previous singhnia kamai camps

Bump - limited spaces - miss it - miss out. good to see singhs/singhnia doing seva of this sort.

yes there are! this is taken from the boss website... What can you expect from the Kamai camp A chance to experience a more focused approach to being a camper! Over the last few years there have been many camps and workshops addressing needs of younger children and newcomers into sikhi however a gap has always existed in regards to developing the spirituality and motivation towards spiritual effort for practising amritdhaaris. Seeing this gap sevadaars sought to address it by taking inspiration from Sant Baba Harnam Singh Rampur Khere wale’s Naam Abhiaas Kamai smagams which are still being held to this day in India. Albeit slightly modified, several camps have taken place in and around the Uk with the motivation and optimism of sevadaars around the UK. Now we hope to make this a regular occurrence. So what can you expect: Collective Amrit Vela ishnaan and Parkash darshan Personal Nitnem and collective sangat time Simple Langar and sleeping arrangements Personal Challenge Hukamnama Veechar of Mahapurkh recordings Also your personal requirements added in A quick energiser which will keep you going for months Sangat of like minded practising Gursikhs A chance to just focus on naam bani,veechar and sangat without distractions Separate Singh/ Singhni camps. If you are interested please fill out the form at the boss website asap! Places are limited and it is strictly first come first served. We will email you a campers pack and a list of what essentials to bring when you have a place confirmed. There is no cost for this camp although donations are always welcome for future initiatives. Closing date for Singhnia camp is Fri 21st January 2011 Singhnia Camp is on the 28th to 30th January 2011 Closing date for Singhs Camp is 28th January 2011 Singhs camp is 4th to 6th February 2011. Both begin at evening times so that it bodes well with people travelling from home towns. The camps will take place at Leicester Guru Tegh Bahadur Gurdwara. Any questions pls contact 07882 340954 Strictly over 18’s only. You can apply free on the boss website : www.boss-uk.org cnt wait!! :D

sorry to the origonal poster there is no need not to eat never ever ever ever give ur body pain how is this sharda ? i know im going to get alot of ppl disagreeing but Ive been through this just meditate on the Naam why would you starve ur body add to ur pain? Just remember Guru mera sang sada hai nale wear a small kirpan if possible do an ardas to guru sahib for forgiveness but there is no need to keep urself hungry would a parent like to see their child hungry bani tells us the guru loves putting food in the mouths of his gursikhs now how wud guru sahib feel to see his bacha bhukha ?

VahegurooJiKaKhalsaVahegurooJiKiFateh Firstly, many congratulations on becoming closer to Guru Sahib. To answer your question, all panj kakkars must be kept on your person at all times, including shower time. Also, my personal belief is that keski is kakaar, therefore it must be kept on the head at all times (except when doing keshi ishnaan, drying and combing in which case it is wrapped around the waist). You can read more about this here: http://tapoban.org/keski.html Even if someone doesn't believe keski is kakkar it should still be kept on at all times because we cannot be tyar bar tyar without it as satkar and order of our kes would not be kept without it. You've got it right, you tie a keski on your head and then you can wrap your gatra with kirpan in it around the keski, I tend to place my kirpan at the front of my head, put the rest of the gatra (like a loop) around my head, then tie a knot in the gatra around the back of the head.

Just Saying, This Rana Fella Is A Mona Who Runs ‘Turban Campaign’. I Wouldn’t Be Surprised If He Is A Secret Islam Convert Using Propaganda Tactics. Why Would Anyone Want To Convert To Islam? Oh Yeah, Then They Have Excuses To Do Evil. Why Doesn’t He, Rana, Put Up His Picture Under The Name ‘Turban Campaign’ On This Forum And Elsewhere. Oh Yeah! Then Everyone Would See His Deceptive Tactics! This Mona Rana Character Is Very Cunning! I Am Confident He Works For Islam Extremists. Having Said That. I Wouldn’t Necessarily Join The EDL, NO. I Would Definitely Educate Them However On The Differences Between Sikhs And Muslims. I Would Educate The Entire UK And World On Sikhi !! I Am Confident (Though Many Won’t Agree) But Many People Of The EDL Will Actually Respect Sikhi !! (Even Though Sikhi Is Very Much Against The Culture Of Drinking Etc) Many Would Actually Perhaps Even ‘Find The Light’ Through Sikhi !! The Islam Extremism That EDL Is Fighting Against, Is GOOD; But, Sikhs Need To Represent Themselves. I Am Talking About True Khalsa Aashikhs. Not Super Glued Dhaaree, Starched Helmets, Towel Head So Called Scholars No Jeevan Brown Noses. True Saint Soldier Inspired Aashikhs With Royal Dastaar Crowns. The UK Government Are Islam Extremist Brown Noses. And This Is Very Dangerous. People Need To Understand That There Is Evil That Is Preached In The Quran. Stop Being Brown Noses Like So Called ‘Turban Campaign’ Run By Mona Cunning Propagandists. ALL EVIL FROM EVERYWHERE WILL BE DESTROYED WORLDWIDE !!!!! TRUE KHALSA WILL RISE AND RULE THE HEARTS OF ALL WORLDWIDE !!!!! CHARDHI KALAA !!!

In Canada, their largest Hindu Advocacy Canadian Hindu Advocacy has joined with JDL .. to support EDL: http://www.adbusters...dl-protest.html One might find it curious to see militant Zionists and Hindu nationalists come together to host a rally in solidarity with racist British football hooligans in the dead of the Canadian winter. But when the common enemy is Islam, transatlantic right wing extremists seem happy to ignore their differences and embrace a marriage of convenience. The leader of the English Defense League (EDL), a rabidly anti-Muslim organization notorious for holding violent and intimidating street protests, was given a forum to address approximately 100 people at the Toronto Zionist Centre by the Canadian wing of the Jewish Defense League (JDL) last Tuesday. In a political and economic climate of uncertainty and fear, scapegoating and blatant racism have found receptive audiences on both sides of the Atlantic. Speaking to the Canadian crowd via Skype connection, EDL leader Stephen Lennon stated that, "Islam stands fundamentally against what we are for. It's like oil and water." He warned Canadians to fight back before being overrun by "Islamofascists" like Britain. Alleged to have been a member of the racist British National Party, Lennon was charged with assaulting a police officer at an EDL demonstration last November. While the EDL has forged links with Dutch far right politician Geert Wilders and elements of the Tea Party movement in the US, this was the group's first foray into Canada. Though major British Jewish organizations have denounced the EDL as Islamophobic and violent, the Jewish Defense League of Canada welcomed them with open arms due in large part to the EDL's support for Israel in what it sees as a war of Western civilization vs. Islam. The JDL claims to be committed to, "the reclamation of the Jewish sense of Justice and the abolition of hatred and bigotry." Outside the event protesters from the Anti Racist Action shouted, "How can you stand arm in arm with these fascists? Your grandparents would be ashamed!" Wearing balaclavas and hoodies emblazoned with the image of a clenched fist over a Star of David, JDL members silently stood guard. Labeled a violent extremist organization by the FBI, the JDL is a far right Zionist movement founded by Rabbi Meir Kahane in 1968. A former charter member of the JDL named Baruch Goldstein murdered 29 Palestinians in a Hebron mosque in 1994. The JDL's website praises Goldstein as, "A martyr in Judaism's protracted struggle against Arab terrorism." Most recently the leader of the JDL, Irv Rubin, and another member were arrested in 2001 for plotting to blow up a mosque in Culver City, California and assassinate Arab-American Congressman Darrell Issa. The Canadian branch of the JDL operates openly in North Toronto, a testament perhaps to the unprecedented strengthening of ties between Canada and Israel over the last five years. While the group has not been linked to any acts of terrorism, hate speech and incitement spewed unchallenged from JDL representatives at the EDL event. Before introducing Lennon a JDL representative advocated the ethnic cleansing of all Palestinians from the Occupied Territories and the destruction of the Al Aqsa mosque in Jerusalem. Expressing support for Florida pastor Terry Jones' effort to organize a mass burning of the Koran on the anniversary of 9/11, he proclaimed, "The Koran should be burned in any civilized country." Global linkages are being made between racist organizations hell bent on combating their perceived enemies. When such voices of violence and provocation receive a welcoming audience in one of the world's most multicultural cities it is frightening to imagine what it portends for the future. The words of a speaker from the group Canadian Hindu Advocacy should serve as a warning. "The problem of Islam is a global problem," he declared. "We will resolve this problem one way or another." Blake Sifton

UAF Is A Cunning Islamist Extremist Front Run By Dirty Islamist Extremists From The Behind.

you wouldn't have the keski very low on the forehead, it can be as high as you can keep it without it losing its stability or making the kirpan fall off. The rest of the head would be cleaned during keshi ishnaan when keski and kanga is kept around the waist. I'll admit that I'm under hukam from panj to do keshi ishnaan everyday but currently don't.