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i had one elder say to me, Sikhi is about equality, so non-Sikhs should be allowed to get married in a Gurdwara as the Gurdwara represents equality for all. i turned round and said, well if that's the case, why are we discirminating against Muslims in the langar then, we should have Halal meat served in the langar to cater for the Muslims as as clearly this is discrimination too....He had nothing to say after that!!!

today is shaheedi day of general labh singh....

Good answer. This modern day, lefty, perverse interpretation of equality is NOT what the Gurus meant. Why don't we let people into the gurdwara with cigarettes, alcohol, head uncovered, shoes on ?......wouldn't want to upset anyone right ? Equality is about respecting others but also having the dignity and self-respect to ask for the same in return. It's about having principles and taking a stand when you need to. Lefties typically don't stand for anything and will just say anything to be popular. Non-sikhs do not marry in a gurdwara because they have a new-found respect for Sikhi, it is because they have no choice if they want to be with their 'sikh' partner. They are taking the mick by dating someone else's daughter/sister behind their back and dishonouring them. On top of that they want to come to the gurdwara and get married. We have lost our anakh and sharam; this would NEVER have been allowed before. If we really cared about Sikhi, we would make sure our partner is Sikh so that we can pass it on to our kids and make our community and nation stronger.

I tried to post it here but formatting gets messed up so here is the link: http://sikhfreedom.com/defense1.html Remaining parts will be posted soon. Guru Rakha

Big respect to the Singhs who protested. If the people who want to marry non-Sikhs had any respect for Sikhi they would not have relationships outside of marriage in the first place. They can't control their emotions, fall in so-called 'love' and then except the Gurdwara to break rules stated in the Sikh Rehat Marayada and hukamnamas just for them. How arrogant and selfish ! Then they have the cheek to call the Singhs 'intolerant' and 'extreme' !

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa || Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh || A(n)mrith Peevai Jis No Aap Peeaaeae || They alone drink in this Amrit, whom the Lord Himself inspires to do so. Amritsar Prison, Thursday 28th June 2012, a historic and profound event took place in the walls of this jail: an Amrit Sanchaar – Sikh Baptism ceremony – was held for the very first time within the confines of the prison. A total of 38 individuals, 35 men (Singhs – Lions) and 3 women (Kaurs – Princesses), arose in unity to illuminate a place as dark as a prison to tread a path of righteousness and join the Khalsa Panth (Sikh nation). The newly initiated had been inspired by the Parchaar (preaching) practiced by Bhai Pal Singh, a French citizen who has himself been physically tortured and illegally detained since July 2010, whose simple yet highly eloquent messages of “refrain from all drugs, honour women, and educate yourself” resonated with both the prisoners and wardens alike. The Jail Superintendent and his fellow staff being so impressed by both the lifestyle (click on this link for previous a press release of Bhai Sahib and his prison diaries), and loving devotion to fighting social injustices commented: “I have seen many who have come through the prison claiming to be Sants (saints)… THIS here is the FIRST REAL one.” After the ceremony Bhai Pal Singh was permitted to give a speech where they reemphasised their message as well as encouraging more prisoners to give up on their misguided ways and to step forward with a “clear” record and live a more fulfilling, devoted and commendable life. SOPW is amazed at the effect Bhai Pal Singh is having in such a short and restricted time period within the prison. The Chairman of SOPW, Bhai Balbir Singh Bains, recalls a short conversation a few months into Bhai Pal Singh’s incarceration, “Bhai Pal Singh felt that it was almost a divine calling from Waheguru (God) for them to be sent to prison. Whereas before they were at liberty to go village to village spreading a positive message amongst the people’s, it was time for them to deliver these messages where it was needed most, where nobody goes: prison.” SOPW is humbled at the support of the Sangat (congregation, donors) for their support and blessings. Bhai Pal Singh has also received many post cards as part of the “Postcard Appeal” and have written to many school children from around the world. We wish to encourage everyone to continue such morale-boosting support. If you wish to donate to any of the projects or volunteer your time, please visit / email: www.JustGiving.com/SOPW/Donate and info@prisonerwelfare.com Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa || Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh ||

He's right, there are definitely 'crazed fanatics' and intolerant ones involved in this debate. The ones who: do not tolerate the Gurdwara's right to have a protocol and maryada do not tolerate the hukamnamas written by Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji and the Sri Akal Takhat Sahib do not tolerate their parents right to have a say in who their life partner should be. The parents who brought you up and made you what you are, and you don't have the decency to ask their opinion in the most important decision of your life ? You just come home one day and TELL them that this is what you are going to do ? Yes, you are very tolerant, aren't you ? do not tolerate the Sikhs right to wish to keep their faith alive and passed onto the next generation do not tolerate the sanctity of marriage and the rights of parents to keep their daughter's chastity intact It is these fanatical liberals/lefties who are the fanatic and intolerant ones here and NOT the Singhs who want the protocol of the Gurdwara respected. They are the ones who forcefully try to convert US to their liberal/lefty/secular way of thinking.

N30Singh Ji, I agree with you. I myself am strongly against method 1 adopted by the missionaries these days. You raise some good points. I have already completed the remaining parts. So what would be helpful is that if you or anyone else for that matter could review it and provide comments to make improvements. If you see anything wrong such as harsh tone, wording, historical inaccuracy etc., point it out specifically and then suggest how exactly you would correct it. The response is not final and can be updated anytime. So feel free to critically analyze it and I will make every effort to incorporate changes. Guru Rakha

LOOOOOL u taking the mick mate? I have heard straight from muslim mouths telling me, how the saudis/arabs HATE pakistanis/indians/Bangalis muslims, especially during hajj. Recently at a wedding i met an arab from dubai, n he told me sub continent muslims r known by a 2 lettered comment, "CC" = Conquered & Converted (reference 2 mughals/turks invaders)! During Hajj,the saudi trains have "arabs only" written on them. Oh not to forget how women get touched up there (even heard this re-itterated on nihals bbc show last week). Also whilst we r on the subject, how the failed Prophet, mohammed, used 2 apparantly have black slaves, so they have prejudices too mate, not sayin that makes it right for us 2 have these dumb divisions, but muslims r no angels during hajj.

..so you think you heard something about him, but you may be wrong, but you don't know?? ..judging by your comment, any Sikh who passes away - their life should be judged by what they said or did in 1984?? for God sake, the guy has only just died and was one of the few Punjabi actors who actually kept his surname Singh!! Rest In Peace.

nimrata is completely different from being a walk-over. it's kind of a difficult thing to explain, nimrata is not weakness. it is great strength. the more nimrata one has, the greater naam bani they can handle. a person needs the dheeraj (forbearance) from nimrata to be able to handle the shaktian gained from this path.

Isn't it funny how many times the original poster has used the word 'weakness'..I wonder if this tells us more about him than it does about the topic he is questioning? I disagree with many of your points but realise people like you do exist. It's all about ego these days....

this thread and the comments cant be serious surely!

who are fanatics please explain??

LOL! sikhsangat.com, proudly dragging Sikhi into replicating 17th century Islam one thread at a time!

Waheguru. Reading over previous posts in this section I have seen many incidents in which trust has been abused and awful actions committed. I think the more aware people become of these issues the better. Looks can be deceiving so we should all learn to look way beyond this and see the person for their actions and language just as the OP has said. Personally, I have come across many cases in which young sisters have been sexually, physically and verbally assaulted by Singh's that appear to be Gursikhs. It is a shame to hear however the more the Sangat blocks out these issues the worse it is going to get... we should all understand and be made aware of what is going on behind closed doors and bring these problems forward :mellow2:

You use the word disrespect like some street gangster.....having a difference of opinion with someone or challenging their position is not disrespect. The original post was an overly simplistic and idealistic view on men/relationships. If you are beaten by your 'boyfriend' it is assault and you should contact the Police - I don't think men with white flowing beards will be of much help.

Well you clearly want to make the marriage work. So the onus isn't on you to get things done. There is another person in this marriage and he should also speak up. Don't make yourself the villain by establishing deadlines. Patience.

We all have to change these sad but true facts. We all have to put a stop to this fragmentation of our religion.

Yes but he hasn't accepted Sikhism hence the protest, at least that's what I gather. There's nothing wrong marrying another race that's up to the person getting married. But a gurdwara marriage ceremony is only for Sikhs.

We have fed Sikh girls barmy PC lefist nonsense from birth and now we are paying a big price. Through our ignorance and corrupt intellect we have then misinterpreted Sikhi to make it look like Sikhi agrees with these daft ideas (which it doesn't). Our old culture needs to be brought back if we have any chance of surviving. Good on the Ramgarhia gurdwara comittee........at least some of us have anakh and sharam left.

Think I'll throw this out there, along with Albert Einstein (during later years of his life), Isaac Newton and Leonardo Da Vinci were vegetarians. :biggrin2:

I'm surprised you're turning this into an argument. The OP believes meat is wrong and I'm giving my opinion why I believe it is immoral. Do you believe Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh was a fool to argue over meat too. We can eat vegetation because it does not feel pain. Even though there may be some bad karma but it is not as worse as animals who feel extreme pain as humans. sIh pjUqI bkrI mrdI hoeI hV hV hsI] seeh pajoothee bakaree maradhee hoee harr harr hasee|| A goat was caught by a lion and while about to die, it gave out a laugh. sIhu puCY ivsmwdu hoie iequ Aausir ikqu rhis rhsI] seehu pushhai visamaadh hoe eith aousar kith rehas rehasee|| The surprised lion asked why it was so happy at such a moment (of its death). ibnau kryNdI bkrI puqR Aswfy kIcin KsI] bino karae(n)adhee bakaree puthr asaaddae keechan khasee|| Humbly the goat replied that the testicals of our male progeny are crushed in order to castrate them. Ak DqUrw KwiDAW kuih kuih Kl auKil ivxsI] ak dhhathooraa khaadhhiaaa(n) kuhi kuhi khal oukhal vinasee|| We eat only wild plants of arid regions yet our skin is peeled and pounded. mwsu Kwin gl viF kY hwlu iqnwVw kauxu hovsI] maas khaan gal vadt kai haal thinaarraa koun hovasee|| I think about the plight of those (like you) who cut the throat of others and eat their flesh. grbu grIbI dyh Kyh Kwju AKwju Akwju krsI] garab gareebee dhaeh khaeh khaaj akhaaj akaaj karasee|| The body of both of the proud and the humble will become dust ultimately, but, even then the body of the arrogant (lion) is inedible and that of the humble (goat) attains the status of edible. jig AwieAw sB koie mrsI ]17] jag aaeiaa sabh koe marasee ||17|| All who came to this world have to die ultimately.(17) If you understood that shabad about those who argue about meat are fools, you would understand it is referring to the word Meat, not meat itself because guru sahib is talking about pandits who behave extremely by covering their ears whenever they hear the word meat. That's why the shabad says 'MAAS MAAS', twice not once because it is referring to the WORD. Just like har har means the name, not the person. Other than that, I still have complete respect for everyone, even if they eat meat. But many are beginning to realise eating meat is wrong. Anyway, I'm not saying any more, that's my opinion.

A small attempt at translating the above sakhi: ----- Guru Arjan Dev Ji was 18 years when he was given Gurgaddi. From far and wide sangat left their homes to have darshan of Guru Sahib. Sangat from Kabul also left their homes for darshan. Every evening they would rest and next morning they would do ardas and continue with their journey. They decided that on reaching Darbar Sahib, first they would go for darshan and then eat parshade. It had become very dark by the time the sangat reached Gurudwara Peepli Sahib( which is made in remembrance of Guru Arjan Dev Ji). They thought that now it would be impossible to have darshan of Guru Sahib. So thenthey decided to rest there without eating anything (as they had decided not to until they have darshan). Meanwhile, Guru Arjan Dev Ji went to the palace and called out to Mata Ganga Ji, “Ganga Ji parshada tyaar karo ”. Mata Ji replied, “Gareeb Niwaj hukum deyo jinneya da vi parshada tyaar karna hai mai hune tyaar karva dendi ha ”. Sache Patshaah Ji said, “Nahi Ganga Ji aj sanu Guru Nanak de bacheya di sewa da sunehra mauka mileya hai. Aj sewa tussi aap karo.” Mata Ganga Ji then prepared the parshade herself. Guru Sahib and Mata Ji then walked carrying the parshade with them, to where the sangat were resting. On reaching there, Guru Sahib called, “Jathedar Sahib Guru da langar aeya hai.” Old men, women and children lay empty stomach. On hearing about Guru da langar they all woke up. On having langar they were all satisfied. As they were very tired, one elderly sangat lay down and began pressing his own feet. On seeing this Guru Sahib Ji went to him and with folded hands requested him "Baba Ji menu eh sewa bakhsh deo". Then Guru Sahib began doing the sewa of the old man himself. All night he kept doing the sewa of the sangata. Next morning the sangat did ardas and began walking towards Harmandir Sahib and kept reciting shabads on the way. Guru Sahib Ji also walked along with them. On reaching Harmandar Sahib, the sangat removed their shoes and put them aside with their belongings. Jathedar Sahib asked one of the sangat to take care of the shoes. The sangat with folded hands said “Jathedar Sahib, kinne din ho gae hann chale paaeya nu. Menu Guru Nanak de darshan to kio vaanjha karde ho.” Then Guru Arjan Dev Ji stood with his hazuriya and with folded hands requested the Jathedar Ji, “Eh sewa iss gareeb nu bakhash deo”. He was very happy and allowed Guru Sahib to take care of the joreh and walked ahead with the sangat. On going inside, they noticed that Guru Sahib Ji was not at His aasan. They went to ask Baba Budha Ji, “Sahib kithey hann?”. Baba Ji replied “ Kabul to sangat turi si, unna vaste kal parshade laeke gae hann par aje takk parte nahi hann”. Jathedar Ji then replied, “Kabul di sangat ta assi ha. Kal ik gabhru ja aaeya si. Usde naal usdi gharwali vi si te oh sade vaste parshada vi laeke aae si. “ Baba Ji then asked where have you left them and come? Jathedar Ji replied “Ji joreya di raakhi vaste”. Baba Budha Ji got up and sangat went along with him. And then they see that Panjve Patshaah Guru Arjan Dev Ji is doing the sewa of sangat’s joreh. With such love and devotion was Guru Sahib doing sewa that He never noticed when they came. Baba Budha Ji and all the sangat began crying profusely and asked “Sache Paatshah eh tussi ki kar rahe ho?” Guru Arjan Dev Ji had deep respect for Baba Budha Ji and answered, “Baba Budha Ji menu Guru Nanak de bacheya di sewa karan to na roko. Menu inna de jore saaf karan to na roko. “ The sangat began crying even more.. Jis Guru Nanak de darshan karan vaste ture si. Jisde charna di chuh prapat karni si. Jisde charana di dhur mastak te laeni si. Aj ki dekh rahe hann ki uh Guru Nanak sade jore saaf kar rahe hann. Oh saari raat sadi sewa karda reha hai. The sangat kept crying and wondering who our Guru Nanak is.. who’s very roop is all humility and gareebi...Today he is blessing us with the data of nirmarta and gareebi..

Khalsa Ji In addition to the above posts please note that if you start the day with Gurbani Nitnem you will experience a reversal of fortune , i.e. you will get the job you're looking for , the status , and everything else. The proof: ਪੰਨਾ 638, ਸਤਰ 2 ਅਚਿੰਤ ਕੰਮ ਕਰਹਿ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਤਿਨ ਕੇ ਜਿਨ ਹਰਿ ਕਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਪਿਆਰਾ ॥ Acẖinṯ kamm karahi parabẖ ṯin ke jin har kā nām pi▫ārā. God automatically does the work of those who love the Name of the Lord. ਮਃ 3 Waheguru.

You already have been given good advice in above posts so i wont repeat. I will leave you with few quotes from the movie I watched last night "The only real faliure is the failure to try" "The person who risks nothing, does nothing, has nothing"