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Real Nihangs who consume jhatka are very respectful towards samparda that keep sato Guni diet, in return puratan samparde like udasi, nirmala & seva panthi are respectful towards Nihang Singh maryada. This mutual respect is born out of 'gyan'. Those who argue about these things and cause problems by speaking bad about each others maryada are just agyani fools. And n30 Singh ji mahaprashad is not tamo guni, your are mistaken if you think this. Even in swami shivanand ji's book on brahmacharya he lists meat as a rajo guni food. If one were to consume raw flesh like aghoris do then this is tamo guni, cooked flesh is rajo guni. Jhatka that has been carried out after the reading of japji sahib and Chandi di // and then has ardas and kirpan bhet bhog performed is considered sato guni.

These guys are not priests, it just their ticket to come abroad and to make money. Har kay sant nah akiyeh, benares kay thag . Do not call them the saints of God , they are thieves.

I'm just going to show some material below that's quite interesting and was very useful for me when I started getting deeper into sikhi in general. For me personally, it was quite inspiring along with other lectures. It's references to Yogi Bhajan lectures about gurbani, simran and more importantly the Naad. Just to add a little with regards to this science of kundalini yoga- In my experience I am simply saying, if we took the time to actually taste this science, rather than falling back on pat, uninformed dismissals of all yoga as self-indulgent, selfish and futile, we can learn that this Kundalini Yoga, is really just an art of extending our prayer and devotion into physical discipline. Done properly, it clears the mind, heightens awareness, strengthens the spine and body, teaches stamina and endurance, and, Yes, it can give a feeling of transcendent joy and spiritual ecstasy which I have experienced at times and cannot describe. The complete combination of physical and meditatively focused kriyas and movements is just Bliss at times ! :biggrin2: You see, it is not about empty practicing or wasting your time locked in a corner in some pose but it rather brings all these attributes into engaging the world clearer, stronger and more joyfully. Which is why I always say that it is and Has been beneficial for my Well-being BOTH Physical and Spiritual. I am not a salesman trying to convince or sell you this science but I am rather encouraging us to be willing to contemplate higher ways of doing things without dismissing them out of hand because of preconceived notions that may not be true. We know blind faith and empty practices are not gurmat but we have a habit of carrying these ideas into any associated practices. Some people claim and moan that we should NOT be reciting gurbani whilst in some physical yoga trance.....etc... But let me tell you this..........- -I go to the gym and do a whole treadmill whilst I am singing along to a kirtan version of Japji sahib on my ipod. Then I do other workouts and stretches whilst gurbani and kirtan is playing in my headphones. I may be doing a dance like counting move of 1-2-3 squat...4-5-6 lift the arms with weights...and Repeat ...1-2-3....................... And I will admit sometimes, quite naturally I shall nod/move my head and arms to the beat of the tabla or chainney in the kirtan and carry on doing this... :wow: In all honesty tell me... Should I stop doing this ? :omg: Is it wrong and sacrilege of me ? Or should I be listening to Chamkila and hip hop instead or sing along to dancing with my Bhabhi or kurri saullaanh saal di instead??? Sorry about the meandering logic, but in the midst of our everyday practice there is always room for more holiness and higher heights. So what's really wrong with this yoga or exercising with gurbani playing?

Situation in uk is very disturbing, the worse thing is it's not just contained to the youth. There are people with no knowledge what so ever teaching young kids at camps etc and spreading a very narrow minded view on Sikhi. No one seems to want to stay within their limits, everyone is a Giani lol. I met most dal jathedars and baba Jagjit Singh and they said when people with limited gyan and no kamai try to lead the pack then this is what happens. Everyone wants to be a jathedar, a Giani, appear on sikh tv but truth is kamai and jeevan are lacking

I must say this thread has been quite an eye opener for me although I'm so paranoid I read every little thing for aanday. I still will be strict vegetarian because I still don't believe in eating meat for ethical reasons but I never thought of myself as better than someone who does. I'm not strong enough to be vegan yet. Had a long discussion with Giani Gurdev Singh Ji from taksal on way back from Dasam Granth Seminar with a friend and another Singh about this subject he also said puratan samparde all respect nihang Maryada and acknowledge it as being puratan. We also saw Giani Sher Singh Ji there, a gupt Singh asked about jhatka and why they don't stop it and he didn't reply, that's when the discussion happened. Giani Ji and Giani Sher Singh Ji have been close for quite some time and told how there is unity

Yeah I was talking to many parchariks regarding state of youth here for eg gyani sher Singh was flabbergasted regarding fascism here among sikh youths.. He said aurenzebi type sharia ism sikhi has taken birth in west.. While in East sikhs regardless of differences are very understanding, tolerant and in general very happy.

Veere listen to Asa di vaar viakhiya part 25 by Giani thakur Singh ji. He talks about jhatka. You can listen to it on http://www.gurmatveechar.com/audio Here is a translation of what Giani ji says: "Nihang Singhs eat Jhatka meat because of their traditions. The Guru allowed this tradition of Jhatka to be practised within his army and by his soldiers; it was not for civilians to eat. Maharaj said to them that if need be you may Jhatka an animal and eat it, not just goats or chickens but any animal you may find in the jungle. The Nihang Singhs of today still follow this tradition. When performing Jhatka on a goat, first the goat is bathed, then Japji Sahib and Chandi Di // are read. One Singh stands by the head of the goat and upon the final lines of Chandi Di // being read, Those who sing this divine ballad will be liberated from the realm of life and death, at this moment the goat is decapitated with one blow and the soul of the goat is liberated. The goat itself lowers its head to receive salvation. (Giani Thakur Singh, Asa Di // Viakhya Part 25)

The 'panth' your talking about forsake the nihangs and long ago turned their backs on the nihangs. When the 'panth' thought everything was hunky dorey with the formation of SGPC and Singh Sabha no one gave a second thought about nihangs. The 'panth' thought their future was secure and that bad times or war would not be faced by the 'panth' so what need is there for nihangs?! The 'panth' had their new committees and leaders, who gave the nihangs a second thought? The nihangs who were once allowed to take whatever maya they needed from any gurdwara for their day to day running were no forced out to the outskirts of the 'panth' unable to financially keep good horses or keep good up to date weapons. They were thrown out of gurdware where they once resided and at some places even refused langar. When the British in panjab employed a shoot on site policy for nihangs what did the 'panth' do?! When the nihangs all left panjab and went into exile at hazoor sahib or hid away living in jungles what did the 'panth' do?! The nihangs who were once feared by all, the nihangs who used to use the money from gurus golak to keep the best horses and best weapons and protect all were now replaced by corrupt sell outs who only intended on stealing from the gurus golak then what did the panth do?! Fast forward in time and people ask why don't the nihangs do anything? Why don't they help the 'panth'? You don't see nihangs getting their dastars removed or getting hassled by anyone do you? The time WILL come when 96krore Khalsa fauj will take part in Dharam Yudh..... Not for the 'panth' but for Dharam. Every bachan that mahraj has said about his fauj will become partak, just like the bachans about fake singhs in the 'panth' are becoming partak.....

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH Forget the chicken, jhatka this one: http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/72982-visiting-sikh-priest-received-90-days-in-jail-for-sex-assault/ Look, put the whole complex, deep, big-worded, mystical arguments aside and look at this a bit practically: With all of the corrupt "Sikh" politicians and genocidal Punjab Police officers, it really does not make sense to kill a chicken - its not like there is a lack of targets to practice on. With all of the jhatka going on to prove warrior status and infuse Shakti etc. etc., you would think that the Indian government would be shaking in their boots from the Nihungs doing jhatka on every Panthic enemy that dares to do anything against the Panth. Sadly, I haven't seen any Nihungs in a crusade to rid the Panth of such enemies. If exceptions are made for Nihungs due to their being warriors and Guru Da Ladli Fauj, do they not have a responsibility to act upon their special status in the Panth? If Taksal is teaching Santhiya, Paath, Keertan, Nanaksar is teaching utmost devotion and seva to Guru Sahib, AKJ is going Keertan seva - Nihungs are doing what exactly? If the role based model of Sikhi, where each Jathebandi has a role is to be accepted, are the Nihung Singhs actually serving their purpose? Jhatka is not supposed to be a way to get Bibek KFC or Mahaparshad - if everything that is used to defend jhatka is to be believed, the Nihungs would be an indomitable force that would fight to the last breath and body to liberate the Panth from its enemies - where are the Youtube videos of that? I don't see any Nihung brothers and sisters out there in force (not talking about individuals - entire Nihung regiments) waging Dharm Yudh against the enemies of the Panth. If you want to do Jhakta and claim this is the warrior's path - should there not be a warrior's output from those belonging to Nihung jathebandis? It's like signing onto a nation's army, performing all of the training, and then when a foreign nation's army attacks you, so sit there stabbing target dummies and polishing/oiling their guns. Something don't add up.

IntroductionThe practise of Jhatka is one of the most recognisable rituals of the Nihang Singhs. It involves killing an animal, usually a goat, with one swift swing of a sword which painlessly kills the animal with one blow. Jhatka is one of the most contentious and misunderstood traditions of the Nihang Singhs. It has always been an important tradition within the Khalsa and its existence is well documented in historical literature. At major festivals and celebrations Nihang Singhs perform Jhatka and distribute the resulting goat meat which is termed Mahaparshad, meaning blessed food. Within the Dalpanth, mobile battalions of the Nihang Singhs, Jhatka is performed much more regularly and meat forms and important part of the diet due to the rigorous and physically demanding lifestyle its members live.“Jhatka is a distinguishable tradition of the Nihang Singhs. The Khalsa has been performing Jhatka since the time of the Gurus, it is part of our Kshatri (warrior) tradition. One is at liberty to choose for themselves whether or not they wish to eat Mahaparshad. Many oppose the tradition of Jhatka and the British tried to ban it, this means nothing to us and we will carry practising the traditions entrusted to us by our Gurus.” (Jathedar Baba Joginder Singh Nihang 96 Krori, Audio Recording May 2009)The Process The internationally renowned Sikh preacher Giani Thakur Singh Ji, a student of Damdami Taksal, explains the tradition as follows: "Nihang Singhs eat Jhatka meat because of their traditions. The Guru allowed this tradition of Jhatka to be practised within his army and by his soldiers; it was not for civilians to eat. Maharaj said to them that if need be you may Jhatka an animal and eat it, not just goats or chickens but any animal you may find in the jungle. The Nihang Singhs of today still follow this tradition. When performing Jhatka on a goat, first the goat is bathed, then Japji Sahib and Chandi Di // are read. One Singh stands by the head of the goat and upon the final lines of Chandi Di // being read, ‘Those who sing this divine ballad will be liberated from the realm of life and death’, at this moment the goat is decapitated with one blow and the soul of the goat is liberated. The goat itself lowers its head to receive salvation”. (Giani Thakur Singh, Asa Di // Viakhya Part 25) The late Jathedar Baba Kharak Singh, a revered warrior-saint of the Budha Dal, performs JhatkaOnce the goats head has been removed in one blow, the blood is collected in an iron utensil and is used to anoint the Guru’s battle standards and weaponry in the Gurus army. This is a form of shastar puja or weapons worship. Jathedar Baba Surjeet Singh explains;“Weapons are sustained by blood. We make an offering to our weapons which have been praised extensively by the Tenth Guru within their writings. We offer the blood to the Guru’s battle standards and pray that whenever we go to war with the Guru’s grace we shall be victorious.” (Oral Interview, July 2007)The goat is then skinned; the skin of a goat has historically had great worth within the Sikh tradition. As well as being used to make various utensils and clothing, goats skin continues to be used to prepare Tabla drums which can be found in all Sikh Gurdware to accompany other instruments in the rendition of Kirtan (religious music). Furthermore, goats skin was also used to make the battle drums (nagara) of the Khalsa. Rattan Singh Bhangu mentions that when a small group of Singhs under the command of Nihang Tara Singh Wan were preparing for battle against a large Turk force sent from Lahore; ‘Jhatka was performed on a goat and its skin was removed. Immediately the Singhs made a nagara (battle drum) using its skin.’ (Pracchin Panth Parkash Steek, Part 1, Page 531) A Nihang Singh removes the skin of a goat following Jhatka.The meat of the goat is cooked and served as mahaparshad ‘blessed food’. There are various accounts of Sri Guru Gobind Singhs Ji themselves eating Mahapashad, including the meat of a lion;‘On one occasion Guru Sahib went to hunt prey. They showed the Rajput princes how to kill a lion and then ate the mahaparshad.’ (Sau Sakhi Steek, Part 1, page 197)Jhatka in Sikh history and philosphyThe tradition traces back to the time of Sri Guru Hargobind Sahib Ji who started the tradition of hunting for Sikhs. Even today Nihang Singhs continue to enjoy hunting trips and often wear either boar tusks or lion claws as a decorative piece as a trophy of their hunt. The Sikh community situated at Hazoor Sahib also frequently hunt in the jungles surrounding Nander. However, Shikaar (hunting) and Jhatka have been a much more ancient tradition practised by Rajputs and Kshatris, i.e. warriors of India. The goat is the favourite animal for Nihang Singhs to Jhatka. Bhai Gurdas Ji, the foremost philosopher of the Sikh tradition elucidates various reasons for this;In the inimitable Sikh spirit of divine service to humanity, Sardar Karam Singh ji, the father of Baba Mit Singh ji , sadly passed away in 1903 while freely administering medicine to plague victims in the region. Baba Mit Singh ji was also briefly infected with the deadly plague, though he was marvellously healed by God's holy touch.‘The proud elephant is inedible and none eats the mighty lion. The Goat is humble and hence it is respected and honoured everywhere. On occasions of death, joy, marriage and such celebrations only its meat is accepted. Among the householders its meat is acknowledged as sacred and with its gut stringed instruments are made. From its leather the shoes are made to be used by the saints merged in their meditation upon the Lord. Drums are mounted by its skin and then in the holy congregation the delight-giving kirtan, eulogy of the Lord, is sung. In fact, going to the holy congregation is the same as going to the shelter of the true Guru.’ (Vaar 23, Pauri 16)The tradition was later reinforced by Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji, who upon delivering baptismal vows to the Khalsa instructed;‘Drink the immortal nectar and upon joining the Khalsa fold go hunting. Continually seek to perfect your use of weapons. Perform Jhatka and eat goats. Do not even go near Halal meat.’ (Pracchin Panth Parkash Steek, Part 1, Page 110)As well as providing nutritional value, Jhatka helps prepare one for the scenes which are witnessed in warfare, many do not take likely to scenes of blood and death and therefore the exposure to Jhatka is essential. Furthermore, the head of goat is believed to require roughly the same amount of force that is required to take off the head of a man. Thus, Jhatka has been a great way for Nihang Singhs to practise their martial skills.Importantly the ritual of Jhatka has further esoteric value for a spiritual seeker. Firstly, it involves a series of prayers and forms of worship. It involves visualising the destructive energy of the Divine in the form of the sword. Mahakaal, the timeless aspect of the divine is invoked as death approaches for the animal which ultimately lowers it head surrendering before God. It is said if an animal suffers at death or is frightened one bares that suffering and emotion upon consuming its flesh. This belief system suggests that the consumption of that food, where the animal has died surrendering itself before God would promote humility and Godly devotion within those who eat the flesh. The stroke of the sword personifies the speed within which death may strike down all. Jhatka can also be seen as an expression of one conquering their own animalistic instincts, moving beyond their lower self. In the same way that reading duels between forces of good and evil one seeks to conquer their own demons, upon visualising Akaal and performing Jhatka one offers a prayer to the Guru to rid them of their inner pasu, characteristic of the lower self. It is the historical traditions and spiritually enriching elements associated with Jhatka that are important, rather than simply just the consumption of flesh, that is important for warrior Nihang Singhs of the Guru to maintain. Therefore, all Nihang battalions forbid the consumption of non-Jhatka meat, this will be looked at in greater detail later in the article.Dasam BaniThe tradition of Jhatka is closely related to the martial writings of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji which often discuss the ancient and cosmically ongoing warfare between the forces of good and evil. Many ignorant people and their farcical organisations may seek to question the writings of the Tenth Guru, but they alone who spent many hours reciting the writings of their father know the Bir Ras (warrior spirit) which is contained within the Tenth Guru’s writings. Baba Teja Singh Nihang Singh, a student of Sant Giani Gurbachan Singh Bhinderanwale, notes the additional practises which occur when Nihang Singhs perform an Akhand Path (continuous reading) of Dasam Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji;‘Throughout the whole reading coconuts and sugarcanes are chopped, large amounts of Karah Parshad (blessed food) is given out openly and Shaheedi Degh (drink of the martyrs) made with some amount of Sukhnidhan (cannibas) is also given out openly. Once the reading has been completed Jhatka is performed upon a goat and its blood is used as an anointment. These maryada (traditions) are very difficult to maintain and is practised by great warriors... for more information regarding these traditions one should speak the Guru’s beloved Nihang Singhs.’ (Adi-Dasam Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji de Patha Dee Sankheph Maryada, Page 23)A Nihang Singh sits through the night during an Akhand Path of Dasam Sri Guru Granth Sahib JiThe tradition of ritually sacrificing goats and consuming Mahaparshad remains alive not only with the Nihang Singh Dals, but also at Sachkhand Sri Hazoor Sahib and Sachkhand Sri Patna Sahib (two of the Sikhs holiest shrines). It is also worth noting that the ‘official’ Akal Takht maryada published SGPC also permits the consumption of jhatka meat.OppositionJhatka also used to happen at the Sri Akal Takht Sahib. According to the historical literature of the Sikhs, when a dispute between the Tat Khalsa and Bandai Sikhs was resolved in favour of the Tat Khalsa Nihang Singhs, Jhatka was performed in front of the Akal Takht and the Bandai Sikhs were only reaccepted into the Khalsa fold after the eating meat as an act of rejecting the Bishnoi practices which they adopted. With the Tat Khalsa and Bandai Khalsa divide also came about the first division of differences regarding diet. The nephew of Sant Baba Thakur Singh, Jathedar Baba Trilok Singh Ji states;‘We read in history that when a dispute between the Sikhs arose it was settled in favour of the meat eating Tat Khalsa. A slip was taken from Tat Khalsa and one from Banda Khalsa and placed in the holy pool at Harimandir Sahib for the Guru to decide which group were the true Sikhs. It was the meat eating Tat Khalsa Nihang Singhs that the Guru chose to show were the true Khalsa.’ (Oral Interview, February 2009) The practise of Jhatka outside the Akal Takht was only stopped in the twentieth century by the SGPC (organisation entrusted with running of Sikh temples) despite the official Akal Takht code of conduct published by the SGPC stating that Sikhs may eat Jhatka meat. During the British Raj various measures were taken in order to dilute the martial spirit of the Sikhs in order to rid the Sikhs of their natural revolutionary resistant spirit. The British had many individuals and groups working directly and indirectly to push forward their innovations within the Sikh community. Of the most noted individuals is one Teja Singh Bhasuaria of the Panch Khalsa Diwan; a retired government employee who is held responsible for raising doubts over the Raagmala, writings of the Bhagats, writings of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji and for removing the word Bhagauti (meaning sword) from the Sikh Ardas. Furthermore, he and his cult were also responsible for removing hymns which invoke martial spirit from traditional Sikh prayers such as Rehras Sahib. From the writings of Principal Teja Singh, a vivid Sikh academic who often criticised British involvement in Sikh affairs, we learn that the ritual of Jhatka was banned by the British:‘The Guru introduced this idea of Jhatka among his followers, which being incorporated later on by Guru Gobind Singh among the baptismal vows prescribed by him is still insisted on by Sikhs as a mark of their liberty. It stands for freedom of food, which was maintained as long as Sikhs were politically free. But with the coming of the British it was suspended for us, and we are still waiting for the day when we should be again free in the matter of food.’ (Sikhs as Liberators, page 5) Despite this particular writing of Principal Teja Singh being published by the SGPC, it is the SGPC which has taken great efforts to minimise the significance and hide the history of Jhatka from the Sikhs. For example as well as willingly stopping the Jhatka from happening in front of Sri Akal Takht Sahib as it had been for centuries, they also restricted the availability of the Jhatka Parkash Granth – a text written by Bhai Narinjan Singh Saral on the tradition of Jhatka. Thus, despite historically having members who were critics of British influence in Sikh affairs, the Nihang Singhs and many Sikhs believe that as an organisation the SGPC is but an extension of British attempts of reforming Sikhi. Jhatka Parkash Granth The Jhatka Parkash Granth is a direct refutation of the misinformed but largely propagated views of Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh Ji regarding the tradition of Jhatka. Bhai Randhir Singh was a highly respected Sikh saint and reformist during the twentieth century whose views were largely influenced by Bhasauria due to the strong relationship the two held for many years. Eventually Bhai Randhir Singh broke ties with Bhasauria once the latter had been excommunicated from the Sikh community after committing many blasphemies. However, some of his ideas continued to resemble those of Bhasauria who had managed to dramatically change the ideological foundations of the Sikh tradition with long standing consequences.Disturbed by the views of Bhai Randhir Singh regarding meat which were outlined in his text ‘Tat Gurmat Nirne’, Giani Narinjan Singh Saral, a leading preacher of the SGPC, in detail refuted Bhai Randhir Singh’s views on Jhatka. Foremost, he highlights that Bhai Randhir Singh grossly misunderstood and misrepresented certain passages of Gurbani and that this misunderstanding is that root of his misinformed views on Jhatka and outlines complexities of scriptural interpretation. Giani Narinjan Singh addresses the root of every question and doubt raised against Jhatka by eloquently analysing etymology, ideology, history and philosophy surrounding Jhatka and related concepts. He praises Nihang Singhs for keeping alive the tradition of Jhatka and highlights that at the time of his writing Jhatka was performed at all Sikh Takhts, thrones of temporal authority:‘The traditions of Kshatri Dharam, the ideals of Jhatka and the custom of anointing weapons with blood have been kept alive until now by the Nihang Singh battalions. Until today this tradition still exists at all Sikh Takhts, should for any reason this be stopped it would be great manmat (egocentric action of men which is against the teachings of the Gurus)’ (Jhatka Parkash, Page 228)Jhatka being performed outside Hazoor Sahib during the 300 <banned word filter activated> celebrationsGiani Niranjan Singh states that during the writing of his book and afterwards he received many threats from the followers of Bhai Randhir Singh. Bhai Randhir Singh devotees consisted of largely urban well to do Sikhs who as a result of their financial strength had significant influence within the religious sphere. It is unfortunate that great efforts were taken to remove Jhatka parkash from all libraries and book shops limiting its existence to handful of private collectionsJhatka and Individual Spiritual DevelopmentAs a result of such historical whitewashing, today many practising Sikhs believe that Sikhs of old never practised Jhatka, despite ample references and sources to Jhatka and hunting existing in literature stretching around four centuries to the time of the 6th Guru. As well as deliberate attempts to rid Sikhi of its martial elements, this is also partly due to the influence of Sants (saints). Promoting the value of Satogun (saintly virtues) amongst their followings, Sants encourage their followers to refrain from meat as it considered to promote Tamogun. However, the value of Tamogun does form part of the Nihang Singh lifestyle (for more information see philosophy section). Recognising the importance of Jhatka for Nihang Singhs many Sants of past and present have at times made offerings of Goats to Nihang Singh battalions. Sant Joga Singh of Karnal closely associated with the Nanaksar samprada is one such saint.The effect of meat on a person’s spirituality varies from individual to individual, the great saint and author Bhai Raghbir Singh Bir in his writings on spiritual living writes;‘It is my personal view that excessive consumption of meat has evil effects and retards the spiritual progress. Its consumption should be reduced to the minimum. More liberal use should be made of milk, fruit and vegetables. I have, at times, eaten meat daily, and at other times, avoided it for a full year at a stretch, and have come to the conclusion that meat should be eaten sparingly, say, once or twice a week. Of course, those who do not eat meat at all, considering it unsuitable for spiritual growth are at liberty to do so as they choose.’ (Bandgi Nama – Communion with the Divine, page 194) Mahaparshad being prepared in the Bidhi Chand Dal The possible negative impacts of meat consumption should also be considered. For example if an individual has difficulty maintaining self discipline such as arising early in the morning and following a set routine, then consumption of heavy food such as Jhatka meat should not be consumed. For this reason Jhatka is only practised by Nihang Singhs as a matter of preserving the Gurus tradition and not for pleasure of the tongue. It should only be eaten by those of martial inclination; “Today people have changed traditions in order to please the desire of the tongue and eat other forms of meat from shops etc...Jhatka was a special tradition that was only for the soldiers of the Guru to practise, not normal householder Sikhs.” (Giani Thakur Singh, Asa Di // Viakhya Part 25)Partap Singh Mehta, while commenting on the Gurus instructions regarding meat states;‘Satguru has ordered one to make the following choice, first draw a line and decide which side you want to stand on. If you wish to carry arms and live according to Kshatri Dharam (way of a warrior) then you should go hunting, hold foremost Kshatri ideals and eat meat. If you wish to stay Vaishnu (vegetarian) or follow the path of the saints then meat is forbidden. Those who wish just to meditate on God and those of Sattvic nature should not eat meat as it promotes Tamogun within the mind. They who practise for Dharam yudh and the protection of the weak, in battle they must spill much blood and be ready to sacrifice their own life. Such a person should have no fear of hunting and eating meat as they are preserving their Kshatri Dharam. But remember this, to eat meat because the tongue desires it or to indulge in pleasure is sin and in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji it is said such a person will reap severe punishment.’ (Sau Sakhi Steek, Part 2, page 137)Liberating the AnimalThose Sikhs who study history or the writitings of the Guru’s learn that Jhatka was performed and the Gurus themselves were fond hunters. However, many Sikhs object to the idea of killing animals. A common belief is that it was ‘acceptable’ for the Gurus to kill animals because they had within them the ability to liberate the animals while humans do not. Indeed many lay Sikhs confidently and assertively propound this argument believing it to be an enlightened observation, in truth it is a flawed observation and shows a lack of understanding of Sikh tradition. Sri Guru Hargobind Sahib Ji and Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji would take their beloved troops hunting and encourage such martial practises, therefore it is little surprise that the these traditions continue to flourish within the Guru’s battalions. With regards to the power of a human, it is entirely correct that one mortal being does not have the ability to liberate another. However, as a whole the Khalsa was invested the authority of Guru which ultimately implies that within the Khalsa resides the same miraculous ability and grace that was possessed by the Guru in their human form. It is the Gurbani which ultimately liberates the animal, as highlighted at the beginning of this article Jhatka is performed following the concluding lines of the Chandi Di // which ends;‘The composition of Durga has been poetically composed. Whosoever recites that shall not again take birth.’ (Dasam Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 325)Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji at KurukshetraIt is unfortunate that meat has become a popular issue of debate within Sikh circles at the expense of greater attention to matters more beneficial to an individual’s spiritual development. Indeed, amongst the Brahmin community who for centuries intellectually dominated India, the consumption of flesh was considered as a vile practise. Thus the performance of Jhatka and consumption of Mahaparshad is a clear inversion of brahmanical values. Upon cooking the meat of a deer in the holy city of on a solar eclipse, considered an auspicious occasion, Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji wrote the following shabad following discourse with leading Brahmin scholars; ‘The fools argue about flesh and meat, but they know nothing about meditation and spiritual wisdom. What is called meat, and what is called green vegetables? What leads to sin? It was the habit of the gods to kill the rhinoceros, and make a feast of the burnt offering. Those who renounce meat, and hold their noses when sitting near it, devour men at night. They practice hypocrisy, and make a show before other people, but they do not understand anything about meditation or spiritual wisdom. O Nanak, what can be said to the blind people? They cannot answer, or even understand what is said. They alone are blind, who act blindly. They have no eyes in their hearts. They are produced from the blood of their mothers and fathers, but they do not eat fish or meat. But when men and women meet in the night, they come together in the flesh. In the flesh we are conceived, and in the flesh we are born; we are vessels of flesh. You know nothing of spiritual wisdom and meditation, even though you call yourself clever, O religious scholar. O master, you believe that flesh on the outside is bad, but the flesh of those in your own home is good. All beings and creatures are flesh; the soul has taken up its home in the flesh. They eat the uneatable; they reject and abandon what they could eat. They have a teacher who is blind. In the flesh we are conceived, and in the flesh we are born; we are vessels of flesh. You know nothing of spiritual wisdom and meditation, even though you call yourself clever, O religious scholar. Meat is allowed in the Puraanas, meat is allowed in the Bible and the Koran. Throughout the four ages, meat has been used. It is featured in sacred feasts and marriage festivities; meat is used in them. Women, men, kings and emperors originate from meat. If you see them going to hell, then do not accept charitable gifts from them. The giver goes to hell, while the receiver goes to heaven - look at this injustice. You do not understand your own self, but you preach to other people. O Pandit, you are very wise indeed. O Pandit, you do not know where meat originated. Corn, sugar cane and cotton are produced from water. The three worlds came from water. Water says, ""I am good in many ways."" But water takes many forms. Forsaking these delicacies, one becomes a true Sannyaasee, a detached hermit. Nanak reflects and speaks. ||2|| (Adi Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 1289)Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji in discourse with religious scholars at KurukshetraKhulla Maas-Freedom of MeatNihang leaders stress the point meat resulting from Jhatka performed according to Nihang Singh traditions may be consumed, no other meat from shops etc, known as ‘khulla mass’ or freedom of meat, can be eaten:‘This is not Kshatri Dharam (way of a warrior). Don’t shame us by wondering in shops, restaurants, market places etc eating meat, refrain from doing this! Perform Jhatka with your own hands and go hunting for prey. Only then are we permitted to eat meat’ (Jathedar Baba Santa Singh, Pracchin Panth Parkash Steek, Part 1, page 110)“Those who wish to eat meat should eat Jhatka which gears individuals towards warfare. Those Sikhs who just wish to perform selfless service and meditate should avoid meat and maintain a very simple diet. There is no obligation on anyone to eat meat, one should never eat khulla mass.” (Jathedar Baba Joginder Singh, Oral Interview July 2006)“It is important to perform Jhatka to anoint our weapons with blood and make an offering to Bhagauti. It then becomes mahaparshad (great blessed food) and one is free to make their own choice whether or not they want to eat this. Guru Sahib has instructed that one may perform Jhatka and eat meat. However, one should never eat meat brought from shops, butchers or restaurants. Who knows in what condition the animal, what illnesses it may have had and by what means it was killed?”(Jathedar Baba Surjit Singh, Oral Interview July 2007)ConclusionJhatka is an ancient Kshatri ritual which the Sikhs have practised since the times of Sri Guru Hargobind Sahib Ji and was reinforced by Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji. It is of great spiritual significance and also serves physical purposes. Prominent Sikh historians of past and present and non-Sikhs sources have given various examples of Jhatka being performed, including at the Sri Akal Takht Sahib. Deliberate attempts to demilitarise Sikhs and efforts of Sikh saints have lead to many Sikhs being ignorant of this historical tradition. Nihang Singhs and other Sikhs have kept alive this tradition and forbid consumption of non-Jhatka meat. Source http://www.nihangsingh.org/website/trad-jhatka.htmlwhat exactly is meat?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRBOo8peNI0should we eat it?(SGGS 1289, 15):"Mās mās kar mūrakẖ jẖagṛe gi▫ān ḏẖi▫ān nahī jāṇai.The fools argue about flesh and meat, but they know nothing about meditation and spiritual wisdom.""Ka▫uṇ mās ka▫uṇ sāg kahāvai kis mėh pāp samāṇe.What is called meat, and what is called greenvegetables? What leads to sin?"(SGGS 1289,16)SGGS (1289, 17) "Gaiʼndā mār hom jag kī▫e ḏeviṯi▫ā kī bāṇe.It was the habit of the gods to kill the rhinoceros, and make a feast of the burnt offering."SGGS (1289, 18) "Mās cẖẖod bais nak pakṛėh rāṯī māṇas kẖāṇe.Those who renounce meat, and hold their noses when sitting near it, devour men at night." SGGS (1289, 18) "Mās cẖẖod bais nak pakṛėh rāṯī māṇas kẖāṇe.Those who renounce meat, & hold their noses when sitting near it, devour men at night."Guru Ji says (SGGS1289, 19) "Faṛ kar lokāʼn no ḏikẖlāvahi gi▫ān ḏẖi▫ān nahī sūjẖai.They practice hypocrisy, and make a show before other people, but they do not understand anything about meditation or spiritual wisdom."(SGGS 1289,20) "Nānak anḏẖe si▫o ki▫ā kahī▫ai kahai na kahi▫ā būjẖai.O Nanak, what can be said to the blind people? They cannot answer, or even understand what is said."Guru says (SGGS 1289, 21) "Anḏẖā so▫e jė anḏẖ kamāvai ṯis riḏai sė locẖan nāhī.They alone are blind, who act blindly. They have no eyes in their hearts."SGGS(1290, 3) "Abẖakẖ bẖakẖėh bẖakẖ ṯaj cẖẖodėh anḏẖ gurū jin kerā.They eat the uneatable; they reject and abandon what they could eat. They have a teacher who is blind."(SGGS 1290, 4)"Māsahu nimme māsahu jamme ham māsai ke bẖāʼnde.In the flesh we are conceived,and in the flesh we are born; we are vessels of flesh."(SGGS 1290, 4)"Māsahu nimme māsahu jamme ham māsai ke bẖāʼnde.In the flesh we are conceived,and in the flesh we are born; we are vessels of flesh."(SGGS 1290, 2) "Gi▫ān ḏẖi▫ān kacẖẖ sūjẖai nāhī cẖaṯur kahāvai pāʼnde.You know nothing of spiritual wisdom and meditation, even though you call yourself clever, O religious scholar."(SGGS 1290, 3) "chaṯur kahāvai pāʼnde even though you call yourself clever, O religious scholar"(SGGS 1290, 6) "Je o▫e ḏisėh narak jāʼnḏe ṯāʼn unĥ kā ḏān na laiṇā.If you see them going to hell, then do not accept charitable gifts from them."(SGGS 1290, 7) "Ḏeʼnḏā narak surag laiḏe ḏekẖhu ehu ḏẖińāṇā.The giver goes to hell, while the receiver goes to heaven - look at this injustice."(SGGS 1290, 7) "Āp na būjẖai lok bujẖā▫e pāʼnde kẖarā si▫āṇā.You do not understand your own self, but you preach to other people. O Pandit, you are very wise indeed."(SGGS 1290, 7) "Pāʼnde ṯū jāṇai hī nāhī kithhu mās upannā. O Pandit, you do not know where meat originated."(SGGS 1290, 8)"Ŧo▫i▫ahu ann kamāḏ kapāhāʼn ṯo▫i▫ahu ṯaribẖavaṇ gannā. Corn, sugar cane and cotton are produced from water. The three worlds came from water."Guru says: (SGGS 1290, 9) "Ėṯe ras cẖẖod hovai sani▫āsī Nānak kahai vicẖārā.Forsaking these delicacies, one becomes a true Sannyaasee, a detached hermit. Nanak reflects and speaks."(SGGS 15) "Ras su▫inā ras rupā kāmaṇ ras parmal kī vās. The pleasures of gold and silver, the pleasures of women, the pleasure of the fragrance of sandalwood,"(SGGS 15)"Ras gẖoṛe ras sejā manḏar ras mīṯẖā ras mās.the pleasure of horses, the pleasure of a soft bed in a palace, the pleasure of sweet treats and the pleasure of hearty meals -[flesh]"(SGGS 15) "Ėṯe ras sarīr ke kai gẖat nām nivās.these pleasures of the human body are so numerous; how can the Naam, the Name of the Lord, find its dwelling in the heart?"SGGS 1377 "Kabīr bhāʼng māchhulī surā pān jo jo parānī khāʼnhi.Kabeer, those mortals who consume marijuana, fish and wine-"..."[no matter what pilgrimages, fasts and rituals they follow, they will all go to hell. ]"Guru himself did Jhatka referenced in (‘Gurbilas Patshahi Dasmi’, Kavi Sukha Singh (1797), Bhasha Vibhag, Pa. 171)Accessing the healthy goats, Chatka them, [Guru Gobind Singh] had them cooked and, eaten [by Guru and his Singhs].’ (‘Siri Gur Partap Suraj Granth’, Expurgated by Vir Singh, Vol.14, Pa. 6240) Drink the immortal nectar and upon joining the Khalsa fold go hunting. Continually seek to perfect your use of weapons. Perform Jhatka and eat goats. Do not even go near Halal meat.’ (Pracchin Panth Parkash Steek, Part 1, Page 110)Jhatka was performed on a goat and its skin was removed. Immediately the Singhs made a nagara (battle drum) using its skin.’ (Pracchin Panth Parkash Steek, Part 1, Page 531)what is meat?meat is paraya hakk!!earned money by false means and by forcing others and inflicting pain!by mental or physical meanssamething gurunanak dev ji prooved while taking blood out from roti , we all know that story ਪਾਤੀ ਤੋਰੈ ਮਾਲਿਨੀ ਪਾਤੀ ਪਾਤੀ ਜੀਉ ॥ पाती तोरै मालिनी पाती पाती जीउ ॥ Pāṯī ṯorai mālini pāṯī pāṯī jī▫o. You tear off the leaves, O gardener, but in each and every leaf, there is life. ਜਿਸੁ ਪਾਹਨ ਕਉ ਪਾਤੀ ਤੋਰੈ ਸੋ ਪਾਹਨ ਨਿਰਜੀਉ ॥੧॥ जिसु पाहन कउ पाती तोरै सो पाहन निरजीउ ॥१॥ Jis pāhan ka▫o pāṯī ṯorai so pāhan nirjī▫o. ||1|| That stone idol, for which you tear off those leaves - that stone idol is lifeless. ||1|| Guru Gobind Singh: ਚੌਪਈ ॥चौपई ॥CHAUPAI ਰਾਜ ਸਾਜ ਹਮ ਪਰ ਜਬ ਆਯੋ ॥ ਜਥਾ ਸਕਤਿ ਤਬ ਧਰਮ ਚਲਾਯੋ ॥राज साज हम पर जब आयो ॥ जथा सकति तब धरम चलायो ॥When I obtained the position of responsibility, I performed the religious acts to the best of my ability. ਭਾਂਤਿ ਭਾਂਤਿ ਬਨਿ ਖੇਲ ਸਿਕਾਰਾ ॥ ਮਾਰੇ ਰੀਛ ਰੋਝ ਝੰਖਾਰਾ ॥੧॥भांति भांति बनि खेल सिकारा ॥ मारे रीछ रोझ झंखारा ॥१॥I went hunting various kinds of animals in the forest and killed bears, nilgais (blue bulls) and elks.1.

Tie a keski veer. and stop trimming your beard and then become a Gursikh :biggrin2:

Make sure you have enough blood in your veins before you watch this. Because all of it will boil off once you're done!

Weat a small kekso

Veer Jee, no offense taken :smile2: . I just don't see how it is a "nonsense issue". For quite some time, Sikhs have had (and still do) the opportunity to research, write and clear-up their history. There are many people/groups still out their trying to distort our history and values even today through writing wrong things in books/articles on purpose. It is Sikh Scholars' and Academics' duty to counter this (and leave their biases and person opinions aside while doing this). Even people who are calling themselves Sikhs are doing more damage than good by trying to distort Sikh history, culture, traditions and values. And it is not just scholars' and academics' duty, it is every Sikh's duty to read and research about their history and come to a viewpoint (which could change over time). If we stop researching and reading, we get doubts and debates like the Dasam Granth one. Some people like to turn a blind-eye towards issues and pretend that they don't exist. However, until we realize and accept that these issues exist, we can never truly counter those who are trying to put doubts in Sikh's minds.

Kashmiri Pandits in 1890s I guess this is what all of them looked like when they visited Sahib Sri Guru Tegh Bahadur Patshah Jee Maharaj in 1675 at Sri Anandpur Sahib.

A visiting Sikh priest from India has been sentenced to prison after being convicted of sexual assault and sexual interference stemming from an incident involving a 13-year-old Abbotsford girl. Ajai Singh, the son of a former prominent Sikh figure, will now serve 90 days in jail, followed by 18 months probation. He had been visiting Canada earlier this year when the incident was first reported to police on Feb. 9. The 38-year-old was charged in February this year on two counts; sexual assault and sexual interference with a person under the age of 16. Singhs father is the former head of the Akal Takht, the highest temporal seat of the Sikhs, during the late 1990s. Singh was also a hymn singer with the Shiromani Gurdwara Parbandhak Committee (SGPC), the highest religious body of the Sikhs. After news of the charges surfaced, the SGPC suspended Singh. On Thursday, an Abbotsford judge sentenced Singh to jail. After serving his sentence in Canada, he will be deported. The victims family told Vancouver Desi, on condition of anonymity, that they are satisfied with the verdict, although they wished for a longer sentence. Ninety days is not enough. I wanted to see at least one year, said a male family member of the victim. However, the man did say his family was relieved to hear the bittersweet news. We are dealing with it. Its been very hard, he said. Finally, the judge has made a good decision. © Copyright © The Province http://www.theprovince.com/news/Visiting+Sikh+priest+received+days+jail+assault/9050166/story.html

it shows on their faces either they will have fake smilies which stand out a mile or they will not smile or acknowledge you and are full of pride. I often wonder why are they not happy or friendly it is because they have no real love of the Guru or Gurbani, sometimes you see kirtanias looking at the tabla player with anger and frustration, but their are obviously some who are devoted but sadly not many.

That's true. The Hindus, Muslims and Europeans that were in MRS's army were all men who kept their long beards. They were almost indistinguishable from the Sikh Sardars. Those were the good old days.

In MRS's Raaj everyone wore a dastar and kept kesh. Outsiders couldn't tell the difference.

Yes, the IA mandated that if you wanted to join the sikh regiments you had to be baptized with the full 5 kakars.

You can find and read any if the historical sources listed below: All the historical Sikh texts such as Sri Gur Sobha by Kavi Saina Singh (1741), Gur Rattan Mala by Sahib Singh (1734), Gurbilas by Kuir Singh (1751), Bansavlinama by Kesar Singh (1769), Mehima Prakash by Saroop Singh (1776), Guru Kian Sakhian by Saroop Singh Kaushish (1790), Shaheed Bilas by Seva Singh (1803), Singh Sagar by Bir Singh Bal (1827), Sri Guru Pracheen Panth Prakash by Rattan Singh Bhangu (1841), Sri Gurpratap Suraj Prakash by Kavi Santokh Singh (1843), Gurmat Nirannya by Pandit Tara Singh Narotam (1877), and Naveen Panth Prakash by Giani Gian Singh (1878), as well as the puratan rehit namas all have references to jhatka being accepted within the Sikh code of conduct (Rehit Maryada), or the clear ban on eating flesh that has been killed according to the Muslim ritual of Halal, also known as Kutha within the Sikh community. In response to your questions about shaheedi degh: During puratan times the fauj had no pain killers or morphine etc and not all singhs became shaheed, some had arms chopped etc but still survived. There were no hospitals or medicine, all the fauj had with them for use as first aid supplies was haldi, mustard oil, salt, neem and bhang. Bhang was grinded up and used as a pain killer hence it being referred to as 'sukhnidhan'. When the bhang is grinded up other things like black pepper, almonds, cardamom, cus cus and sweet crystals or sugar are also added. This mixture is very high in protein and the black pepper wards of general illness like colds & flu. Bhang is known to have a meditative effect when consumed so an added bonus if u like was after being so good to consume for physical reasons it also aided with your spiritual practice. These days when people get ill they go to the doctor for all sorts, get pain killers, injections for various health problems, most medicine contains alcohol but sikhs still consume it?! Now how is that different to nihangs consuming shaheedi degh as a medinine with added side effects of aiding in meditation? Is that not a better side effect then the ones caused by western medicine? The nihangs I met in India are generally very healthy and do do suffer from problems like high blood pressure or diabetes which so many people suffer from these days. They also live to quite an old age whilst being fully physical able and put this all down to the consumption of shaheedi degh. If u ever in panjab or hazoor sahib I recommend you spend some time with them, u will realise they are not as bad as everyone thinks they are and their lifestyle has a lot of logic behind it.

This fanaticism on both sides is wrong and very damaging to the panth but I must say that from all the real nihangs I met in India they are very respectful of sato gun aradhnah path and likewise singhs from taksal accepted Nihang Singh practice of jhatka and degh. The problem is in the west. Unknowledgeable jatha fanatics and wana be nihangs and taksalis fighting over what they consume just to feed this temporary body we are living in, it's sad state of affairs.

A veragi teagi Bhagat will lead a life of complete detachment and eat very simple and live very simply as this will be beneficial to his way of life and path of bhagti.A ghristi jeeve will live his life as a householder and be required to pay attention to his wordly affairs whilst doing whatever bhagti he does. His bhagti may take on the form of visiting gurdwara, basic nitnem and lots of pun dhaan but it's his path. A warrior who worships Akal Purekh through his sargun shakti whilst being knowledgeable about gods nirgun form will carry out shaster pooja, perfect his knowledge and use of weapons. As nihangs could lead a nomadic lifestyle that is physically very demanding and will consume shaheedi degh as part of that lifestyle as a medicine, aid in meditation and for general up keep of maryada. He will perform jhatka to anoint his weapons, to practice his martial skill and consume the meat to keep his body physically fit and robust for his nomadic lifestyle.... All of this is his bhagti. Reaching god does not mean sitting crossed leg in a room, he can be experienced & worshipped in all of the above and countless other ways. The vastness of Sikhi is what gives it beauty and balance

Wearing of the Turban was an integral part of Indian identity just a few generations ago. Besides Sikhs even the common Hindu and Muslim would wear a Turban. It seems right after 1947, both in India and Pakistan, the common man stopped wearing the Turban. Today only the Sikhs wear it but sadly it's becoming increasingly rare amongst the Sikh youth who are becoming Patit. In the Indian army many Sikh officers are no longer even turban wearing Sikhs. I have relatives who are officers in the Indian army, they are all either clean shaven or even if they are turbaned, then their sons(and son in-laws) are clean shaven and it's likely that if they continue their family tradition of joining the army they will be clean shaven. Just by looking at them you can barely tell them apart from the Hindus. But thankfully the common Sikh soldier is still in Sikhi sroop.

Yes that includes fools from both extreme- ultra veggie fools and ultra tamoguni non veggies fools both have lost plot. Gurmat is unique, center, balanced path..!!

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH So...are you implying that the Nihungs are in worse shape now than when the Mughals were around? They seemed to do OK with the limited resources at their disposal back then. Come to think of it, what funding is SGPC and the Panth at large providing Taksal, Nanaksar, AKJ, Kaar Seva Babae? It appears that they do get donations and means to survive (and grow, no less) by their seva. If Nihungs took over seva of utilizing their Shastars in service of the Panth, they would probably be more powerful than any other Jathebandi (think how much of Puinjab would donate arms, money and their families to that cause). Sant Jarnail Singh Ji did not have a treasure chest, but because he was willing to stand up and do seva of the Panth, the resources came to him from the Sangat.

Might as well become a Jain then and tie up your mouth so you don't kill any bacteria and carry a broom and fixate your eyes to the floor so you don't kill any insects. Stop eating plants as they are described in bani as life forms and also proven by science to have life.

VJKK VJKF I'm 16 and I hope to be blessed with amrit in the future. A question I had was, are most amrit dhari's vegetarian or vegan? Everyone gives me different opinions on what's right and wrong. I'm willing to become vegan, but I want to hear more about the topic first. Thanks.

If your going to throw around baseless accusations at least do it properly. As far as Akal Takhts decision goes, you are correct I did indeed post the translation of the official Akal Takht Hukamnama on the meat issue here it is again below : Hukamnama issued by Akal Takht Jathedar Sandhu Singh Bhaura dated February 15th 1980 that Amritdhari Sikhs can eat meat as long as it is jhatka meat and that eating meat does not go against the code of conduct, Kurehit, of the Sikhs. Thus a Sikh cannot be excommunicated for eating meat. Now as for halal... This is definitely NOT permitted see below: The Sikh Rehat Maryada (The Official Code of Conduct) An Amritdhari Khalsa Sikh is not allowed to eat the meat of an animal slaughtered the Muslim way. In Punjabi the word "Kuttha" specifically means meat prepared according to the Muslim ritual slaughter. Punjabi-English Dictionary, Punjabi University, Dept. of Punjabi Lexicography, Published Dec. 1994. "Kuttha: meat of animal or fowl slaughtered slowly as prescribed by Islamic law." Punjabi English Dictionary, Singh Bros., Amritsar "Kuttha: Tortured, killed according to Mohammedan law." What is Jhatka Meat and Why? Jhatka meat is meat in which the animal has been killed quickly without suffering or religious ritual. Sikhism, A Complete Introduction, Dr. H.S.Singha & Satwant Kaur, Hemkunt Press We must give the rationale behind prescribing jhatka meat as the approved food for the Sikhs. According to the ancient Aryan Hindu tradition, only such meat as is obtained from an animal which is killed with one stroke of the weapon causing instantaneous death is fit for human consumption. However, with the coming of Islam into India and the Muslim political hegemony, it became a state policy not to permit slaughter of animals for food, in any other manner, except as laid down in the Quran - the kosher meat prepared by slowly severing the main blood artery of the throat of the animal while reciting verses from the Quran. It is done to make slaughter a sacrifice to God and to expiate the sins of the slaughter. Guru Gobind Singh took a rather serious view of this aspect of the whole matter. He, therefore, while permitting flesh to be taken as food repudiated the whole theory of this expiatory sacrifice and the right of ruling Muslims to impose iton the non-Muslims. Accordingly, he made jhatka meat obligatory for those Sikhs who may be interested in taking meat as a part of their food. Sikhs and Sikhism, Dr. I.J.Singh, Manohar Publishers. And one semitic practice clearly rejected in the Sikh code of conduct is eating flesh of an animal cooked in ritualistic manner; this would mean kosher and halal meat. The reason again does not lie in religious tenet but in the view that killing an animal with a prayer is not going to enoble the flesh. No ritual, whoever conducts it, is going to do any good either to the animal or to the diner. Let man do what he must to assuage his hunger. If what he gets, he puts to good use and shares with the needy, then it is well used and well spent, otherwise not.

ਮਾਸੁ ਮਾਸੁ ਕਰਿ ਮੂਰਖੁ ਝਗੜੇ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਧਿਆਨੁ ਨਹੀ ਜਾਣੈ ॥ The fools argue about flesh and meat, but they know nothing about meditation and spiritual wisdom.

There are many paths to Akal Purekh. Akal Purekh is limitless, beyond beginning & end, beyond time, beyond death, his limits are not known, he is beant. If Akal Purekh is sooo vast and incomprehensible in his limits then how can there be only one path to merge with him?!It is your limited budhi that does not let you see or accept that there may be some people in this world who's path towards Akal Purekh involves bhang and jhatka. If vegetarians are so high and mighty then why don't they do as mahraj says in the above shabad and become 'real' sanyasi and give up delicacies like corn, sugar cane and cotton?! They put on a show for the world by saying we don't kill animals & eat meat but rip people of for money, wear leather shoes made from dead animal skin, beat up a tabla made of animal skin when doing Kirtan. Drink cows milk that the cow produces for her young, take paracetamol & other medicine that contains alcohol and other harmful chemicals. Go to tescos and buy products that were tested on animals. Say they don't eat meat but dig into Linda McCartney sausages made to taste like meat. They don't eat meat but when filled with sexual desires they fill their mouths with flesh made body parts of their partner. Science has even proved that plants are living beings who communicate with one another, they recognise the person growing them and even feel pain. Sikhi is not black and white, just like Akal Purekh Sikhi is beant.

I think as Sikhs, to help us in our personal developments, this is the story that I stick with about Mian Mir. I believe he did visit Guruji and that he actually cared and was ready to take some action to try and turn the tables. I have a greater personal affinity to believing this story about Mian mir. Because along with this comes one of the earlier mentions of God's sweet divine hukam or will (tera banah mittha laage) Whereby, Guruji made a statement or reply to Miah mir with regards to letting the Hukam and divine will prevail....let God's play act without any interjection........ The lesson we can all learn here is that we do not run from fear and have FULL faith in his Hukam running the whole show in all circumstances. However, the story of the foundation stone has never really concerned me and to be honest I don't actually associate Mian mir with this anyway but rather the visit to Guruji as mentioned above. Am I being ignorant in ignoring the foundation stone story ???? NO, ... I am mostly in agreement with Johnnyveer on this one BUT as a Sikh I don't think it helps me to develop either way, therefore although I believe the possibility of fabrication is quite high on this one, I am not going to try and argue or justify it to myself in any way. Let's put it this way..... .......- -If someone asks me who was Mian Mir ? Then I mention the Guruji visit story only.!!!

This is indeed infuriating and I've highlighted this before also. You have to literally "beg" to build a Gurdwara Sahib or Mandir in a Muslim country, but all you need for a mosque in a Western country is regular paperwork and you're all set. The world needs to wake up, and wake up before its too late. Name just one non-Muslim country where Muslims are oppressed. Now name a Muslim country where non-Muslims are oppressed (you better have enough pen and paper for this one). You guys don't know the experience of growing up as a Hindu in the Middle East. Each time I hear "religion of peace", I giggle, because I've seen the real deal at the root of where it sprang from. In a way, I thank Guru Sahib for it. Because if I hadn't seen those kind of days, who knows, I may never have been inclined towards Sikhi. And to be honest, the very first thing which hit my mind hard at the age of 16 was ਚੁ ਕਾਰ ਅਜ਼ ਹਮਹ ਹੀਲਤੇ ਦਰ ਗੁਜ਼ਸ਼ਤ ॥ ਹਲਾਲ ਅਸਤ ਬੁਰਦਨ ਬ ਸ਼ਮਸ਼ੀਰ ਦਸਤ ॥ When all other methods fail, it is proper to hold the sword in hand. Even though Sikhi was to come much later in life, I made this my measuring scale to live by. These days if I tell people the kind of days me and my folks had to face, and how I always was a bad a$$ who didn't turn away from getting into a fight, I end my stories with the phrase "ehvi ni bahmna da munda Sardaar baneya!" Have no fear Singho and Bheno, and do NOT fear anyone, Hindu or Muslim. Fear only Akal Purakh. We are not slaves, so live as free Khalsa.

Many mainstream sikhs have misconception regarding nihangs training and claim their knowledge of weaponry are outdated as they are totally oblivious by the fact there are are many nihang high military standard codes/chivalary/shastars which were used in mahabharata mentioned in sri sarbloh granth. I am not a nihang by any stretch but i have been blessed to spent good amount learning (still learning) nihang idealogy, methodology and sidhant of sri dasam granth and sri sarbloh granth. This modern weaponary is nothing compared what we had previously. Akaal purkh is beant so as Khalsa is beant so his weaponary. Never under estimate old, old is gold as they say.

What good will killing a chicken do? That' proves nothing. Instead they should have something like a physical test like being able to shoot from an x number of yards or being able to do 100 pushups :wow: During the olden times, the Nihangs were like the elite of Sikh armies. They were the best and most skilled at warfare of the time. Sadly, Nihangs have been unable to transition their warrior heritage and project it into modern battle field tactics and weaponry. They are stuck in the past. A Nihang of today should ideally be as trained as a US Navi Seal if not better. A Sikh of today should maintain his traditional warrior mindset by training in modern warfare/combat. Even in our recent Sangarsh, many Kharkoos were ex cops and soldiers, so they were able to use their combat training for the Panth at it's hour of need and train other young Singhs in the process. The sword is a sacred weapon for the Sikhs, but realities of modern warfare should not be ignored.

I can only go what I experienced while I was on the retreat which lasted a week, gurbani, for example, sunnia from japji Sahib, was used to accompany yoga sets, there was no explanation of its relation to Sikhi, when I discussed it with the instructors they acknowldeged what it was. There was no education to the people at the class about how to respect gurbani (covering head). dancing did not occur in precence of Guruji, but shabad come from Guruji and I would think the words deserve the same respect as if Guruji was present. Gurbani was used in the context of conquering negative psychological states like a mantra and no mention made of Viaguru. I;m afraid that was enough for me and its not a case of judging any particular groups, but distortion of gurbani Yes plenty goes on amongst Punjabis but we are taught the significance of gurbani and how to respect it - whereas Kundalini Yoga is using gurbani to make it palatable for the majority of people who attend their classes and will not be inclined to explore the origins of it. Just because they are gora (and some Punjabis may be disrespecting Sikhi) does not mean they should be excused from respecting gurbani. I would recommend you try one of the classes so you can see what actually goes on.

Why was Darshan Singh Ragi excommunicated - He recited a fake story and denigrated Guru Sahib

STOP YOUR DONATIONS - Ask the Sikh Media (TV, Radio, News Channels) why they are not covering beadbhi on Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji in Southall? Whats more important news than Sri Guru Granth Sahib? What are Sikhs without Sri Guru Granth Sahib? Read this post below, http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/72691-beadbhi-in-london/ The hypocrisy the Sikh media is showing is amazing. Even more amazing is that a Hindu channel MATV has stepped in to help with a LIVE program at 7-8pm on 30/09/2013! So, debate. Whats the point of Sikh media if Sikh media can't cover issues like beadbhi of Sri Guru Granth Sahib?

I attended a kundalina yoga retreat once and they seemed to be more concerned about making money, this put me off as they have no right to make money from the Guru and also dancing while listening to shabad, on the Sikhnet site the Yogi Bhajan seems to have an almost guru like status - I'm sure a lot of the people following him are genuine but there seems something dubious about it . He doesn't seem very humble

Tried that and the ones contacted said they had no date set.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh Bhaji, a Sri Akhand Path is a welcome step in the right direction. An acknowledgement by the Guru Nanak Darbar committee that a wrongful action has occurred and to seek forgiveness is the right thing to do (although they promised one before). Sikh organisations, elders and media have failed to intervene, offer advice or guidance and help resolve the situation. Tensions are very high and this situation could become easily become a lot worse. Reading some of the responses, its not hard to imagine the course of events. The Guru Nanak Darbar committee (who are at the centre of this situation) need to take responsibility and diffuse the situation. To date, they have maintained an arrogant public silence.The wider Sangat continues to become aware, at the weekend further mention of this issue was made in the media. So, yes a Sri Akhand Path (and Ardas) and a written statement to advise how this situation will be avoided in future and what the procedures for dealing with the assessment, collection, repair and destruction of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is required as a minimum.

Here we go again the Saadsangat try to get some honest answers regarding the respect of Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee and some little devious upstart has to continously(not once, the previous poster made it very clear what this topic was about) attempt (all be it very feebly)to try and divert the Sangat and the very essence of this topic away from getting the ONLY answer asked in the title - regarding ALL 3 Channels, not just the Sikh Ch. Big man Mr Mahakaal96 Jee boy do you know how to tell a story, the "old skinny guy" you so lovingly referred to is Ropinder Singh from east london. Hey but you already know that so do I and he also knows who you are. Tell you what im going to do for you (cos i like you so much dear brother) he is is mobile number 07508 821776. Please give him a call straight away - Dont delay ring today.... Question him to your hearts delight, record the conversation and then put it (Just as the TRUE sons of Guru Jee did) on SS, but one small baentee on a NEW TOPIC... cos this ones taken!!!!!