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This is a grave issue. Gurdwara matrimonials need to be monitored, there is a lot of hate being spread against turbans from female sikhs sections in many gurdwaras around West London, and possibly others as well. Please keep a vigilant eye, we cannot let this hate happen in sacred Gurdwaras. Gurdwara is not the place for turban to be disrespected, why are we letting this happen on such a large scale? Gurdwara is about peace and love, and also we need to promote this respect for turban among punjabis and beyond. How is there so much hate for turban in gurdwara lists? This will really really badly effect preserving the turban in our community if we don;t do something, anything! This is beadbi to the grandest scale!

Really interesting topic! Personally I think beards and turbans are awesome on sikh guys it shows discipline, strength of character and love for guru ji! I'm not married but I feel that anyone who changes themselves just to be in a relationship is just asking for trouble. Part of the problem maybe the girls you are expecting, sikh girls that aren't really into sikhi are obviously less likely to go for a keshdhari guy, the same way I can guarantee a clean shaven guy or even a guy that keeps a turban but shaves would not like to marry or even 'date' a keshdhari girl. So it's all well and good saying I have a turban and can't find a girl, imagine how difficult it is or a keshdhari girl (wearing a dastar or not) to find a partner when even other keshdhari guys are like oh my god leg hair!!! Oh my god eyebrows that aren't perfectly stick thin! What evolution gave you armpit hair as well?! :I Many guys want to follow sikhi but aren't always willing to accept a woman doing the same thing, and for those of you who are open minded enough to marry a keshdhari girl, thank god I have hope for the future! But that's a different issue, mini rant over! The girls that tend to be interested in sikhi and accepting of guys that keep kesh are less likely to date (or at least wait until they actually want to get married to date) so that might contribute as well. As for this whole have a turban and date outside of sikhi, it is completely a personal thing who you choose to marry but if you love sikhi and would like to take Amrit or work to advance in Sikhi I feel like it may end up being more challenging if you are married to some who is unaware or not following in some way themselves, I know sikh couples where only one is amritdhari or into sikhi even that can get complicated, especially when it comes to how children should be raised (particularly wether or not to cut their children's hair or bring them up vegetarian etc) so be aware of that and don't end up being blindsided. Don't forget that whole one soul two bodies shabad as well (if you can find the actual shabad feel free to post) marriage isn't just marriage in sikh it's an anand karaj, it's about working together to reach waheguru, I think finding someone at a similar spiritual stage is more important and for keshdhari guys it is likely to be other keshdhari girls or at least girls with some interest in Sikhi, which once again means they are less likely to date in the traditional sense. I agree with other posters arranged marriages are just simpler for those that can't find someone themselves but want to stay in Sikhi, arranged marriages today tend to be more like western setting people up any way! Someone says oh you'd be really good together and try's to arrange something rather than: I like your son, you like my daughter they will be married and live happily ever after and have a big Indian wedding with a load of people they don't actually know.... This is my first post, sorry it turned into a bit of a rant... People bring up this issue a lot and forget the flip side of girls that are keshdhari and have the same problem! I'm keshdhari which by default in our community means I would probably only find a keshdhari guy as they are the only ones willing to accept me (but that's ok as I'll only marry a keshdhari guy, mainly cause I wouldn't want to have an awkward conversation about the fact that I would want to bring up my children in Sikhi and not cut their hair), how would you of reacted to post saying opinion of guys on girls that keep their hair or only remove certain areas? I'm not sure many people would know what to say. And when I have seen this bought up its 'don't worry you will find someone stay stong in your Sikhi bhenji' not you'll have better luck if your more confident or look outside of sikhi. (Again sorry for the ranting ) either way, omg Iwhy are all guys obsessed with finding a girl, if you stop looking so hard and just be nice they'll find you! girls are always talking about how they can't find a guy that is nice and confident, and you also need to disprove that horrible line: there's no guarantee he's nice just cause he has a turban and beard', beat the bad press guys some off us are waiting for our Singhs and sardars and not mr Bollywood or Prince Charming! But I'm sure waheguru has it all figured out anyway!

All dharam have four levels- shariat, tariqat, marfat , hakikat.The way i see its quite simple, all bhagats in gurbani- rejected (or may be transcedent its better term) outer rituals of their dharam -shariat, tariqat even rejected avtar/prophet - sargun saroop of maha vishnu as they evolved in their spiritual development realize (by kirpa of non dual nanak supreme consciouness vahiguroo- some sikhs wants this turn into nanak abhramic version falling into same traps many muslims, christians and hindus fell with their respective prophets) final stage- hakikat- advait marg- non dualism which essence is same as gurmat advait marg. So at the end they don't belong to any structure/organized dharam. From that debate over turban issue reminds of religious issues existed in sri guru nanak dev ji time where muslim and hindu leaders came to claim satguru nanak dev ji body- muslim wanted to bury him and hindus wanted to ceremate him in return they got flower which they both divided and took home. No specific dharam owns Satgurus/ bhagats period. They dont belong to anyone specific as they belong to all as they are merged in nirankar and nirankar is sarab vypak. If both sides want to really give respect to bhagats, they would do so but by abiding in the final teachings of bhagat in gurbani of - "kabir tu tu karta tu hua , mujh mein rha na hoon jab aapa par ka mitt gya , jat dekhaan tat tu" Rather than arguing over bhagat wore sargun symbolism- turban or not. It really does not matter if they did or not..at the end they disassociated with their temporary body-panj bhootak (read shalok nauvan how illusory this five element body is ) and egoic transient mind when they realized their one all prevading jot/parbhram paratma. It would make sense to argue over bhagat outer garb- sargun symbol when bhagat is claiming they are body but when bhagats themselves are claiming they are jot saroop-"kabir tu tu karta tu hua , mujh mein rha na hoon jab aapa par ka mitt gya , jat dekhaan tat tu"and all of this is useless.

Kaka paaj gya Kaki naal. But thats ok we will pray for him.

The problem is, people from the sikh community, both in the west and in India, make negative comments towards turban wearers. Comments that are either hateful, discriminatory, or take the mickey out of turbans. This happens in many families. Now, let's say when goray in UK discriminate against the turbans, then we protest (like in the 70s/80s), or take them to court for racism (Racially aggravated crime), or sue an employer (turban discrimination) etc But what heck is our community doing when so many members of the sikh community are doing similar things??? I mean, the only time I hear anything is when people complain about girls not liking turbanned sikhs, and then sometimes see some topic on radio and tv, or increasingly more often on this forum! But look, it's not just sikh girls, it's sikh boys that are also causing the hatred, and I know this happens in India too as I know of a few incidences! But do we protest? NO! Do we complain? Doesn't seem like it! Are we doing anything? Doing sikhi prachar is good and all, but look, we need more awareness about, and how to stand up against, the bullying and hatred within our own community against turbans! From observations, I think the other thing is the sub communities in the sikh community. Some sub-communities, such as Afghan and Bhatra sikhs, have a lot of respect for turbans, so they don't experience first hand any discrimination against turban from other sikhs. But I come from the jatt sikh community, and turban respect can drop low in this community. I also see some of this discrimination from other indian sikh communities that are related to mine, such as Indian tarkhan sikhs as opposed to East Africa sikhs. - So I think this is an issue we need to deal with as well, a slow poison rapidly being spread against the turban by ignorant people in the sikh community!

It was the Amrit blessed by Dasmesh Pita jee.

I'm just really sad, that people take our Kesh and Dastars as just a piece of fabric or fashion item. Is our Guru's identity so low, that we have to truly ask this question: "Do I look good to girls?" Does anyone know about that Hari Singh Nalwa, when a Muslim lady(beautiful for times at the time) asked "will you bear my children?" Hari Singh Nalwa responded,"I can not have your kids; however, if you wish I can be your child." Now that Islamic lady was surprised. Gurcharan Singh Manochal is known for considering all women as his sisters, even protecting them from a young age. Please think of these high moral Singhs, you represent them when your with a Turban.

These guys are Australians who just travel farm to farm on shearing season and are paid per fleece cut so want to do it quickly and without to much timewasting so take their frustrations out on the poor beasts . That's why I prefer to buy from small holdings on the scottish isles as they are more invested in their flock's health and happiness. Bought my last batch on the isle of Mull when on hols .

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH Romance marriages, a funny concept... You date, you lie, you embellish, you sleep with people and decide to marry the perfect one, only to realize that a lot of lies were told and misrepresentations made and you roll the dice to a 50/50 divorce rate. :biggrin2:

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH 1:11:46 - ????????????????? So...any person who reads Dasam Patshah's Zafarnama would also be aware of the following lines (given that this group calls itself Shri Kalgidhar Satsang Mandal)? I am also the annihilator of the hill rajas, the idol worshippers. They are idol worshipers and I am engaged in defeating “ the very concept” of idol worship. Zafarnama - found at page 34 of http://www.zafarnama.com/Download/zafarnama.pdf . The Aarti by Bhagat Sri Sain is being quoted literally, where the most traditional of teekas of Sahib Guru Granth Sahib says: ਧੂਪ ਦੀਪ ਘ੍ਰਿਤ ਸਾਜਿ ਆਰਤੀ ॥ Dhhoop Dheep Ghrith Saaj Aarathee || ਤੇਰਾ ਜਸ ਰੂਪੀ ਧੂਪ ਔ ਵਿਵੇਕ ਕਾ ਦੀਪਕ ਔਰ ਪ੍ਰੇਮ ਰੂਪੀ ਘੀ ਇਸ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਰ ਕਰ ਆਰਤੀ ਕਾ ਸਾਜ ਕੀਆ ਹੈ॥ The lines are being quoted out of context and at literal face value, when this is not what any translator of this Bani said. I am purposely including the most traditional translation (Fareedkot teeka) as a translation here so as to dissuade any hint of any modernist-missionary translations. Guru Sahib will not contradict Gurbani with Gurbani - Aarti in the physical form is not advocated in Gurbani. Contemplation of the Divine and its creation are advocated. The deeper essence of Gurbani is blatantly being ignored to present a distorted presentation that Gurbani says to do a physical Aaarti, where the very Gurbani, in its proper context is saying otherwise. I did not see Mr. Mamtaani doing translations of the subsequent Gurbani lines after the ones he does "katha" of that give the deeper meaning of the Aarti contents and how they directly oppose his conclusions. One has only to look at the Aaarti composition sung in many Gurudwaras in the evening AS A WHOLE to realize that the physical Aaarti is NOT being advocated. http://www.adelaidesangat.com/index.php/downloads/func-startdown/117/ Most telling is Bhagat Ravidaas's line in that Aarti that says: ਤੇਰੋ ਕੀਆ ਤੁਝਹਿ ਕਿਆ ਅਰਪਉ ਨਾਮੁ ਤੇਰਾ ਤੁਹੀ ਚਵਰ ਢੋਲਾਰੇ ॥੩॥ Thaero Keeaa Thujhehi Kiaa Arapo Naam Thaeraa Thuhee Chavar Dtolaarae ||3|| Why should I offer to You, that which You Yourself created? Your Name is the fan, which I wave over You. ||3|| ਤੇਰਾ ਹੀ ਕੀਆ ਹੂਆ ਪਦਾਰਥੁ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੋ ਕਿਆ ਅਰਪਨ ਕਰੋਂ ਔਰ ਤੇਰਾ ਨਾਮ ਹੀ ਚੌਰ ਹੈ ਪੁਨਾ ਤੁਹੀਂ ਚਵਰ ਕੇ ਢੁਲਾਵਣੇਹਾਰਾ ਹੈ ਅਰੁ ਤੇਰੇ ਪਰ ਹੀ ਢੁਲਤਾ ਹੈ॥੩॥ 50:09 - Sri Dasam Granth Sahib is the means of unifying Hindus and Sikhs - ...interesting...perhaps he should expand this - is he saying that it is the means by which Sikhs can be considered a sub-division of Hindus. Then he goes on to say that Sahib Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji's Raam and Sri Dasam Granth Sahib's Raam is the same (avoiding the deeper meaning of Raam, which is ramat - present and present everywhere). 1:08:25 - states that he will start his Keertan with Ustat of "Ma Bhagwati" and then starts Keertan of Sri Dasam Bani. Perhaps a learned individual could explain to me whether the Bani being referenced is indeed in praise of Bhagwati or Akaal Purakh? http://searchgurbani.com/dasam_granth/page/295/line/4 He also outlines that at 1:10:45 that Bhagwati and Akaal Purakh are two separate beings, so he is advocating that Sikhs do worship of Devi (and also the other Hindu avtars, by mentioning Chaubis Avtaar Bani). His pronounciation of Vaheguru is really poor (just saying...). Baba Prem Singh did not seem to speak in this video, so not sure how this can be titled that he did Katha. He seems rather out of place and uncomfortable throughout. Conclusion: This Madhavdas Mamtaani is suspicious.

I went to Singapore on my honeymoon and the Muslim friends I have there took me to Gurudwara Sahib there where it is specifically displayed that no NON-SIKH person can get married by Anand Karaj at that site , obviously people being manmatti they would find a way around by trying to take prakash to marriage hall by the committee at that time would refuse to allow it to happen . I don't know how things are now but I was impressed. I propose that we stop our sisters looking at Bollywood guys images by replacing them with positive good looking turbanned Singh and Singhian as promoted on Singh and Singhni FB page , also gaining more media coverage e.g. like the Gap and GQ photos . There is a section of PARENTS who say they wouldn't want there daughters to go into an Amritdhari household as it would be too challenging restrictive of their daughters, and there is the old prejudices that a turbanned skh can't be a success in the world blah blah blah. I also propose that all turbanned sikh men promise to honour their Gurskh counterparts and try to find and accept an amritdhari girl and to kill the whole daaj thing dead. Guru Gobind SIngh said his sons would never ask such a thing so prove it ...and gain the respect that is due a Gursikh Don't wait for the girl to want a turban before tying it , tie it with confidence all of you then she will be swayed

General observation, Is it me or what that panth is being hijacked by crying randhiya more and more? really ? one character assissination after next not following tat-essence of gurmat (spiritual development of oneself) but following their serious pathological self righteousness egoic mindset.!! Thanks vahiguroo i m not part of these fuddu and fussar panthis who feed off contoversies all day long, work as guerilla war press.

it did not work that way and yes it had more success rate when you would be kids, parent would find a girl and do roka after sometime they marry their kids, but the kids/teenagers used to live with their own parents . in this time period the love grew expecting that you have someone for you rather then sleeping around with more strangers when the guy would be old enough say 24+ he would be sent to take muklava and stay at the girls place for sometime and bring her back . but westerners like to sleep with a stranger on first date or many strangers . and call this concept funny? how is it funny . all i see it , is better then westerners

come on! who doesn't want a cute little sheep ?

omg ever since I've seen this topic (haven't even had the guts to watch the video) I feel so sick, it just keeps making me think about my woolly clothes - "wonder how they got this wool!" ...think im going to have to buy my own sheep for my own wool LOL I hope this was just a demented maddo and that other farmers do not do this too

Can't Find a Punjabi Girls there other girls who will respect you better. They will convert into Sikhism even better as your are.

so much cruelty. These people are like Jamdoots.

In no particular order do Ardas, trust your parents, find a suitable vichola, ensure that a research party is sent to find out about the potential grooms background and his families and think carefully about the questions you ask when you meet. Ultimately 'Sanjog' will have an overriding effect and who you are destined to marry as per karmic cycle will occur.

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH And then this happens... :omg: So a comment on this topic: This is a Sikh forum, so apologies in advance for any views that may hurt sentiments to the readers. Only read below this line if you can stomach a little harshness. Hath Jhor Benti. __________________________________________________________________________________________ Do you really want to be a Sikh? I mean really - sit down and do some inner contemplation. Read some history, read Gurbani and decide. Most of the time it's this: ...that leads to the "Sikh or no?" posts. In fact, this is the common problem that leads to this very thought process. There is a lot of depth in Sikhi. One aspect of Sikhi is a passionate and deep faith. A Sikh will leave it to the Guru to take care of his/her affairs. The Guru WILL arrange "Santa(n) Kae Kaaraj Aap Khaloia, Har Kam Karavan Aaya Raam" - it is not a coincidence that this was the FIRST EVER Hukamnama from Aadh Sri Granth Sahib Ji (written this way as the Gurgaddhi was not transferred to it until Dasam Patshah - and yet, the SHABAD GURU was always the Guru, it was merely changing of the bodies that was occuring). If Guru Sahib can turn (and as history tells literally) sparrows into hawk killers and have (again, literally, as was demonstrated in Chamkaur Sahib) have one Sikh fight a quarter of a million, SURELY HE CAN FIND YOU A SIKH HUSBAND OR WIFE???? Again, this applies to Gursikhs. Read Gurbani, read history, read the Rehat Maryada to define what a Sikh is. If you want the blessings of the Guru, that is the way to get them. Otherwise, all this stuff about cutting hair, short beards and the like - it is not Sikhi. All of us sell ourselves WAY too short in what we truly are, where we come from, what our forefathers were and what we should aspire to. Of course, you think it's over at marriage, but then your backstabbing kids do stuff like this: And even sadder is when you see this when others realize what Sikhi is: (Yes, the above is "fictional", but based in reality, as incidents like this happen). Sorry for the capital letters - they were added with the intent of emphasis (maybe I am too passionate or something). _________________________________________________________________________________________ Message to all Sikhs, take this film as a warning - applies to men and women: And dating? The whole bit about considering women as sisters, mothers and daughters and men as fathers, brothers and sons...must have missed that lesson. Sorry for the bitter tone of some words - truth is like that sometimes.

Sixer on the first ball! :respect: Very good points, yes some guys can be somewhat hypocrites when the tables are turned, i.e. when they are put in a position to respond to a Bibi who may have excessive facial hair. There is a saying "ਹਰ ਸਰਦਾਰ ਨੂ ਕੁੜੀ ਤਾਂ ਮਿਲ ਜਾਂਦੀ ਹੈ, ਪਰ ਹਰ ਕੁੜੀ ਨੂ ਸਰਦਾਰ ਨਹੀਂ ਮਿਲਦਾ", which clarifies the fact that it is probably harder for Bibiyaan to find a Singh who would accept them for the way they look. But there are enough Singhs out there who wouldn't care about appearance, and would actually decide based upon the Bibi's jeevan.

If they dye their hair then yes.

If a girl doesn't want to know you because of the way you look, why change your appearance for her? What if she starts to dislike your taste in clothes? Music? Food? Will you change all that? Or will you learn to love and appreciate yourself for the person you are? If you can do that first, then the rest will all follow. And as for Sikh/Indian women, if they don't fancy you then big deal. There is a big, wide world out there and it's filled with plenty of women that will find your appearance attractive. I've got a Turban and beard, though it didn't get me anywhere with Sikh girls in my younger days (am happily married now), I had no problems with White girls at all. They saw past the exterior and noticed how I was as a person and that is what they responded to. THAT'S what is most important. Take care.

Fateh Water is taken into the sarvoar from connected water supplies. This also provides facility to increase and decrease the water level. Understand that there has been heavy rainfall but the water level doesnt rise in a second. The commitee members or the sevadars should have been responsible for monitoring the water level and take adequate action. Oh well. . .. . .

sikhsangat or any blog isnt the place to post about marital issues or naming and shaming,

Yes teach them about Sikhi. It was that child's good karams that he was blessed by being adopted by a Sikh. If you really love that child like your own child then you would give him/her the gift of Sikhi. Nothing in this entire universe is greater than the spiritual path of Guru Sahib. What sense will it be to deny that child this spiritual gift that can literally liberate him/her from Charasee lakh joons

I think these love marriages are over rated. 50% of them end up in divorce anyway. All this bollywood luv shuv stuff finishes eventually once reality kicks in, then you have a nagging wife, dealing with her family, she having to deal with her own dreaded mother in law. Then you fall out of love. Ghar ki Geehan Changi, jan Dhanna Levai Mangi Meri Gall mann, find a decent homely Sikh girl to marry in a traditional arranged marriage who will be a good wife and mother to your children and you also be a loving husband to her. Make Sikhi the center stage of your married life, find happiness in Sikhi rather than this fake Bollywood lifestyle. You are lucky you be born a Sikh. Utilize this life for Bhagti and Seva of Guru Panth