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WJKK WJKFMost parents think it's fine because thei there and doing their bit....while their kids run round like lil sh*ts playing as if we were in a playground. My parents would of gave me a swift punch in the rib if I did masti, we just knew not to mess in the darbar. We would go and play outside or sit in the langar hall. When my kids were really small, like two years old, my wife and I would teach em not to make noise or mess about while kirtan, katha or hukamnama was being spoken. They learnt well and behave real good and enjoy going gurdwara. If my youngest is abit restless, my wife or I will just take her into the langar hall, let her settle and come back into the darbar. I can understand some women may not have enough support when they have more than one child from their husbands as due to panjabi manly culture. This in no way singles out women point being. The men are to be blamed equally. I don't understand why here in the uk the parents allow their kids to run riot. Thy have to behave in school and in school assembly, why not in the gurus darbar?

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Old but excellent post from another forum Here are some basic rules that should be enforced in the Gurdwara Sahib. Please try to follow as many as you can, MOST of them are common sense. If you have any questions about anything, ASK SOMEONE. If you don’t know anyone to ask, ask the heads of your gurdwara. Feel free to add anything you think needs to be added, but please ensure that it is in line with Gurmat. Lastly, please forward this to anyone who goes to the gurdwara. You may also want to print it out and post it up at your gurdwara. >>>> Basics: 1. Cover your head 2. Wash hands (if your feet are dirty wash them too. Many gurdwaray have a separate place for washing feet. If not, wash them in the sink or with water on your hands.) 3. Take shoes and socks off Other stuff: **most of these are common sense if you pay attention to number 4. 4. Keep in mind that sitting in darbaar where Guru Granth Sahib Jee is is the same thing as sitting in darbaar where Guru Nanak Dev jee/any other guru sahib is.. this point cant be stressed enough...most people would be more careful as to how they behave in darbaar if it was any other guru than guru granth sahib jee. Have as much respect, humility etc. in Guru Granth Sahib Jee's darbaar as you would in Guru Gobind Singh Jee's darbaar. 5. If someone has their eyes closed DO NOT DISTURB THEM (unless absolutely necessary). They are most likely concentrating on whats going on.. not sleeping. 6. When matha tekking, do it as if guru nanak dev jee is there... because he is. 7. Dont wear inappropriate clothing (i.e. tight clothes, shirts with low necks, shirts that show half your stomach, bright flashy sparkly suits, multicoloured suits, extravagant suits...) 8. Cover your head PROPERLY at all times. "it slipped off my head" shouldnt be an excuse. 9. Don't talk while in the darbaar, even if you can't understand doesnt mean other people aren't paying attention. Your talking will disturb them. Try to listen to whats going on and you'll catch onto a few things. Even if you dont, ask your parents or just keep quiet and do simran. 10. If you see a friend sitting nearby or walking across, dont start frantically waving at him/her. If you must talk to him/her right then, go outside and do it. 11. NO TALKING whatsoever during ardaas/vaak. 12. When getting parshad, put your hands up high so that its easier for the sevadaar and make sure to use both hands. 13. When eating parshad, dont play around with it.. just accept it and eat it. 14. Do not DANCE, or even move your shoulders to the beat when kirtan is going on. Its not bhangra. 15. Dont pay attention to what other people are wearing. 16. LISTEN to what is going on. 17. keep mobiles, pagers etc off.. or if you must, keep it atleast on vibe so that it disturbs no one but you. 18. If your cell DOES ring, take it out immediately and turn it off. Don't leave it ringing in your pocket/purse thinking that no one else can hear it. DO NOT EVER talk on your phone in teh darbaar. 19. If you see someone else talking, kindly ask them to quiet down. 20. for ANY seva in the darbaar, your hands MUST be washed and you should have a hazooria (long piece of cloth around your neck) 21. For deg di seva, hands obviously must be thoroughly washed. When giving out deg, don't talk to people.. dont even sing "satnam vaheguru" (or whatever they're singing) with the rest of the sangat because its possible that some spit from your mouth could fall into the deg. the best thing to do would be to wrap your hazooria around your mouth. 22. In the langar hall, while doing seva, hands MUST once again be thoroughly washed. This is very important. 23. If you're serving langar, dont talk to people unnecessarily. 24. When your serving OR eating langar, your head must be covered. 25. Dont go boasting to people of how much seva you do (or how many times you go to the gurdwara), this just defeats the whole purpose. 26. The Gurdwara is not a social place. You dont go to meet up with people or to show off your new suit. 27. Don't push when you're in line to matha taak. 28. Do not bow down to anything other than Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee; this is considered an insult to Maharaj jee. Even if there is another pothi in the darbaar with other bani in it, the ultimate jyot of Guru Sahib is in SGGS. 29. Try to sit cross legged when in the gurdwara. 30. Don’t sit against the wall, please reserve this area for the elderly. 31. Don’t sit at the back, find a nice spot from where you can pay attention to what is going on. 32. Dont bring any food into the darbaar 33. Teach your kids the proper way to matha tek. Some kids throw money towards SGGSJ like they're doing Guru ji a favor and then don't even bow down. 34. NO GUM!!!!!! 35. Try to stay inside the gurudwara at most times. You disturb people when you go in and out ....or if you know you're going to leave in the middle of the services, sit near the exit. 36. Participate in the programme currently going on in Gurudwara sahib like if Kirtan is going on then sit and listen and try to understand the Kirtan. Many people start doing other Paath (sukhmani sahib or others) in the Gurudwara Hall when Kirtan or katha (lectures on gurmat) are going on. A student (Sikh) should listen to what is going on (katha/ kirtan) in classroom (gurudwara) at that particular period of time. If any body really needs to do other paath then they should go to a separate room instead of doing it in the main hall. 37. The Gurdwara is not a playground, if you wanna play, play outside, not in the guru darbar or guru ka langar. 38. No portable game consoles or mobile phones with games. I have seen teenagers playing these during a diwan (session in the gurdwara). 39. No T-shirts or clothes with offensive writing like FCUK tops or beer ads or anything anti-Gurmat. 40. When coming to the Gurdwara, try to spend more time in the darbar rather then spending more time outside talking. Some people might spend 15mins in the darbar and then 2-3 hours talking outside like they are going to sort out important Panthic issues or bhaji/bhenji clubs, we know how these can end up!!. As mentioned before, the gurdwara is not a social meeting place. 41. Teach younger kids to sit inside the darbar... they're never going to learn anything if they play outside during kirtan!! 42. Try to stay in the darbar for as long as the program is going on. Stay to listen to the hukamnama, even if you don’t understand. If Guru Gobind Singh jee was giving an order to his Sikhs, you would most likely want to stay and hear what he has to say. Same thing at the gurdwara. Vaheguroo jee ka Khalsa Vaheguroo jee kee Fateh!!!

I wasn't making excuses I am saying that punjabiat is the virus we need to eradicate because our panth is universal not tied to any nation or region/culture alone . I was descended from jatts but neither I nor my parents did farming ...it is just the trade of my ancestors, nothing more. I appreciate my ancestors' sikhi more and their actions to fight against oppression, if it wasn't for their steadfastness I wouldn't be blessed with this heritage. I read Sikh itihaas but never thought of who was what ..just how wonderful these people all were and how much I would have loved to live with them and learn at their feet. I never discriminated against anyone for their birth and still don't and yet there are so many in India who claim blood relations to me who feel that jaat is something, so many who claim they speak for me and my Sikh family when they kickout people from sangat for accident of their birth THEY DON'T ... Not all sikhs were Punjabi many were afghan, Gujrati, assamese, Nepali , Kashmiri etc etc How are we going to recover those sangats if we let antisikh elements like SGPC prevent true parchaar to those regions because of their constant shutting down of projects and support to individuals starting grass roots changes ? Let's pick the the proper battles let AAP come up with anticorruption packages and plans to handle things differently in Punjab whilst we stop casteism in Sikhi's name and really get parchaar going in the Subcontinent

When we were kids, the babey had no qualms about disciplining or even slapping children who were misbehaving. Now its a free for all and many children are running around causing havoc. The parents are not setting a great example and can be found on phones during the Ardaas, Guru Sahib giving Hukam and even try and talk louder than the kirtanis!! The Satkar and fear is missing.

WJKK WJKF one thing that nags me is kids running around with nothing covering their heads. Since when were children exempt to the satkar of the Guru Granth Sahib Ji....I did raise this on here few years back but most sangat on here very quickly dismissed it as not a big issue, as their ownly kids lol?

mmmh interesting indeed. Sikhi is a garden which contains flowers of all shapes and sizes, so this translation explains I suppose why we had the Akalis, Nirmalas, Udasis and so forth all playing different roles. Question then arises were they all instructed to receive Amrit and become Guru Wale in the sense we are told now or were they still Guru Wale but had distinct responsibilities?

The main problem here is ignorance. The sangat trust the raagis and the Giani jis to know what they are doing and do it the right way. I think the lowering of the standards of kirtan performance is because most Giani jis we have performing this seva have actually turned to kirtan as a way of getting out of India. We personally knew a Giani ji who was actually a person who rows people across the river... kisti chalaun vala and he learned a few tunes on the vaja. As long as you can sing some gurbani on the vaja - outside country committees will be fooled as to you can perform kirtan. He had a forged giani certificate. The sakhis he told us - got mixed up in between and he had a business running on the side for him. In his free time he was selling stuff to people and even this stuff was sort of fake. Once someone bought a fixo from him and it was watery and useless. He forged reciepts too. A lady gave him 50 shillings and he cleverly wrote her a receipt of 50 and on the carbon copy it said 5. The lady came to my dad who was sevadaar at that time. This was all insider information which we were able to get at because my dad had access to the paper copies of the Guradwara. As long as this continues and we keep getting fooled, kirtan maryada cannot be adhered to. Another giani ji - this one was a genuine one came and he was all the time getting framed up by these others. No one has the time to follow up activities which go on in guradwaras. Our committees are the ones who employ people from India and they can only respond to applications they receive. No one makes an active effort to go seek the actual real and well trained giani's who will perform kirtan in maryada and not look at it as a way of simply making money. These gianis then move on from countries like Kenya to go on to canada and Uk. If possible then we should have our own trained youth to perform kirtan in the Guradwaras. There is no place where at present (or maybe there is) where a reputable person from India can impart such precious knowledge to our own youngsters who can learn and perform kirtan and also educate the sangat on the correct way of performing kirtan.