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I have an interesting topic on hand, the people without an identity. It seems like Muslims can't live with Hindus , Christians , Sikhs , Buddhist or anyone non Muslim. That was the clear idea of why Pakistan is a thing right now. When Muslims live in countries with high non Muslim religions , they demand secularism & when they live in countries with non Muslim minorities they demand Sharia. I think we can agree, Pakistan was a big mistake , one of the few big reasons it exists is because of the high mullah populas that existed in India since the Mughal Raj, the Muslim league really couldn't stand the idea of sharing a country with Hindus that they started rioting months before the partition to get their wish, and of course on the Indian side you also had greedy pigs like Nehru, who couldn't stand the thought of having to share power with others [ muslims ] , since he wanted full control over India, he agreed to the partition. That led to the greatest migration of all time with a million casualties. What has happened since ? Oh , just 4 wars , countless millions of deaths , 2 nuclear armed sh^tholes at each other's throat and general hatred . I would've personally been okay with an undivided India , even with Sikhs being an minority in Panjab, because this way most of our historical sites wouldn't have went to the terrorists in west who have left them in shambles. If it were up to me, I would've told the Muslims to either stay in India or migrate to the other 50 Muslims countries in the world . Infact I prefer this plan, I would rather have sent these savages to the middle east , Afganistan , North Africa or a host of other places before giving them a chunk of Indian land. That brings me to the second point, even though Sikhism only appeared 500 yrs after Muslims landed in Panjab / India , I feel like Sikhs have fully ingrained themselves into Panjab and have fully embraced it. All Sikh Gurus were Panjabis , all Sikh warriors and legends were Panjabis , infact I don't know of a single famous Sikh who wasn't Panjabi. What I'm Saying is Khalsa and Panjab are one in the same. While Panjabi muslims on the other hand don't really have any heroes of their own . The Mughals were Turks , the invading Durranis were Afgans , and then you have the Persians , who are yet another cucked race of people , but that's topic for another day , also to the point aren't Panjabi either. Infact there isn't a single famous Punjabi Muslim warlord that Pakis could attach their pride on to . Panjabi muslims are infact cucked Panjabi Buddhist and Hindus who were converted by the invading arabs. So you have Pakistan , a country that is majority Punjabi , although many of them aren't really Panjabi by ethnicity, a lot of Bihari / UP / Central indian muslims migrated to Panjab during 47. So a majority Panjabi dominated country , who adopted Urdu , a language of UP bhaiyyas , as Pakis saw this as a " elite " language , lolz . Infact , Panjabi isn't even supported by the schools in Pakistan , I mean there are schools that teach Sindhi , Pustun and other regional languages but not Panjabi , the most dominant language spoken by 70 million people . GEEEEZ Finally, as we seen Pakis disregard the biggest language and ethnicity in their country , that brings me to the last point , Pakistan's history. If anyone has seen forums that showed Pakistan's history books , you would've gotten a laugh. According to Pakistan text books , Pakistan's history starts at the invasion of Sindh by Muhammed Bin Qasim [ National hero but not a paki ], according to the books , Qasim defeated the evil villian Buddhist villion Raja Dahir [ Native Sindh-ian, but not a hero because he's not a muslim , mind you that 99 percent of the pop of Sindh / Panjab at the time was Hindu / Buddhist ] . Then you have another hero , Ghori , who invaded North India pillaged and slaughtered the soo called Pakistanis in early 11- 15th century . So here we are today, majority of Pakistanis are descent of Hindus , and yet they would tell you that they're arabs and turks and then would proceed to go clean toilets in Saudi Arabia for their arab " bros " , lol . What's funnier to me is Pakistanis would rather be considered part of the arab history , most of which is filled with nothing but poor desert wanderers who didn't have an ego before they discovered oil , vs a indian history filled with early science , first university [ Taxila ] , enlightenment of the great Buddha , countless empires who built modern cities and created modern math , chess and many other wonderful inventions. Here we have it , the people without an identity. On a side note , I noticed that any non muslim country that gets converted to islam turns into a violent and backwards society , Afgan Buddhist < current day ISIS and taliban , Pakistan Hindus < current day failed nation and taliban and many others . Weird huh .

Something similar happening in Pakistan. As Sikhs are more respected than Hindus in Pakistan then some lower caste Hindus are becoming Sikhs. The state of Sindh offers so much potential as many classed as Hindus in the Pakistani census are really Sehajdhari Sikhs. It is good to see that the Yatras are having such a positive effect on both the confidence of the Pakistani Sikhs as well as conversion to Sikhism of Pakistani Hindu lower castes. Imagine if there was a Heera Singh in every Hindu village in Pakistan, the number of Sikhs would soon outnumber the Pakistani Hindus. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkQE_DmMwfU

No we don't have to respect their belief's we only respect the right for people to believe in what they want to..... that's the difference. E.g One is respecting a person beliefs which could include killing you as a non-believer and treating you with discrimination and contempt like aspects of abrahamic faiths teach. The other is respecting the right for people to hold abhorrent beliefs that you may not agree with but respect the right for the person to hold them though don't have to respect those beliefs yourself. Sikhi and modern day human rights concepts such as freedom of belief teaches you to believe in the later not the first.

In the coming years there will be a lot of potential in finding converts to Sikhism in north India. The Hindutva forces will come into conflict with the minorities as well as the Dalits. The Dalits nowadays aren't the old type of Dalits that took suffered in silence. These Dalits will look to escape from the nominal Hinduism which they practise and this will have huge potential for Sikhism. The Sikhs will need to wise up and not spend money on charities like Khalsa Aid which spend money on Rohingyas and Syrians and yet have nothing in return for their work. In the early 90s in Kumher in Rajasthan there was an massacre of Dalits by Hindu Jats, The SGPC called on the small Sikh community in nearby Bharatpur to help these Dalits by providing them relief. The assistance was not great and probably cost in the region of some thousands of rupees. But the response from these Dalits were tremendous in that over 200 converted to Sikhism in months and then many hundreds after that and a small town and tehsil that had a few hundred Sikhs now has over 1700 Sikhs. That's what a small amount of assistance can achieve among a people in need of immediate succour and then self respect. Very few Dalits in similar circumstances would convert to Islam or Christianity because becoming Muslims or Christians does not raise their sense of self respect or how others see them. Conversion to Sikhism raises a Dalit to a Sardar which conversion to these other religions do not. There have been other events like this but because Sikhs have taken no interest to give relief to these Dalits there have not been any similar conversions. If Khalsa Aid is allergic to helping Sikhs then the least it can do is to assist in these types of situations. Their setting up of langars will have an affect on these Dalits and what religion they chose when they make up theri minds to leave Hinduism. But the only riot situation in India that Khalsa Aid provided relief to the Muslims fleeing Hindu Jat violence in Muzaffarnagar in 2013! As always throwing away the Sangat's money without any thing positive achieved! As Sikhs have not assisted the Dalits then these Dalits are now turning to Buddhism. But a Buddhist Dalit is still a Dalit in the eyes of caste Hindus. last year there were a number of instances of Dalits being forced to migrate from their villages by caste Hindus. It would take organisations like SGPC, Khalsa Aid or others to change their strategy and this would bring in a great many converts to Sikhism and the hope of turning north India into a Sikh belt can be closer to realisation.

Guru ji only had multiple wives to stop the spoiling of that females life because her parents had dedicated her to Guru ji and her rejection would be a life sentence of taaney . the sikhs who had multiples were after misl period and were copying rajas of other faiths . Because Guru Pita ji told us to have one partner and be true to her alone. We are not meant to do reesa of Guru Sahiban just follow their instruction Pakistan and other muslim countries have the highest rates of poverty and malnourishment in their children , their philosophy is our duty is to breed doesn't matter about how to live after as Allah will provide . Many NGOs are on the ground and telling the stories of stunted growth, disabilties caused by maternal malnourishment and genetic inbreeding . Their healthcare is overwhelmed unless they have oil . The families here make major use of benefit system to support unsupportable family numbers and hidden 2nd, 3rd, 4th families . Apparently eating food from kaffir is haram but his paise is good ...

You make some very good points, but I disagree with the assertion that Pakistanis don't have an identity. They do, and it's them being Muslims through and through. It's something I hope our people will do as well, and choose Sikhi over our Punjabi identity. Here's the thing, the Punjabi identity that we all seem to cherish is also the creation of the Mughals. From clothing to food, from language to our ethnic identity, all has had an overwhelming amount of Mughal/Persianate influence. Heck, even the name Punjab/Punjabi was given to us by Jahangir. It's for these reasons I think many Sikhs also stray away from their Punjabi identity. Punjabiyat and Punjabi is also an identity that has only been fully realized recently, the 18th century. If I could have a say for all our people, I would go the route of the Pakistanis, and have all of us identify solely as Sikhs over Punjabis. Language doesn't matter, as long as you can read the Guru Granth Sahib.

His travel ban did dent the entitlement that Muslims feel they have to migrate to the west and try and turn these countries into Islamic shytholes.

Our field of intellectualism is limited to the dogmatic injunctions of sampradas, or the tedious fallacies of alleged intellectuals with their theories of what pre-colonialism was. There seems to be no principled effort at alleviating our community's moral/sociopolitical regression. Ad hoc bodies are established from time to time but these are only temporary. Maybe its high time that the fifth takhat, the Dal Khalsa be resurrected.

The Indian education system has brainwashed them into imbibing the myth that the very purpose of Sikhi is to guard India- ironically India, in itself, is an Occident creation and Sikhs dying for it are only dying for an illusion.

My question is how the soo called SIkhs could attack their own holy temple. Kuldip Singh Brar , this subhuman , a congress puppet laid waste to the innocent people paying visit to Harmandir Sahib on Guru Arjan's memorial day. Santa and the others did as much as they could , I believe they took out 400 terrorist soldiers before bowing out. Then you have this POS KPS Gill , what this AHOLE did even surpasses what Brar did .. KPS eliminated Punjabi Boys / Males all throughout the 90's in what's called fake encounters. Most of the people he killed were innocents just going about their day, and he burned the bodies and evidence. Now the so called " media " labeled him a super cop lol .. Truly pathetic , my question is how their can be such subhumans like Gill / Gen Brar who go against their own community . Can you imagine a muslim invading Mecca ? Then you have Sant Bhinderwala , a true hero on the other end of the spectrum , who didn't have a fear of death . How can such people come from the same community ?The biggest slap on the face of Khalsa was when all the shaeeds were dead , the military had ordered tons of liquor and tabaco with Punjab paying the bill and those scum drank and smoke inside Harmandir Sahib , really making my blood boil .I heard stories about Gen Brar's family cutting connections with him over what he did . What a POS .. Offcourse you have many other sc um like CM Beanta , CM Arminder & CM Badal . There's a long list of trash. You have a list of a trash on one hand and another list of Lions on the other. Lions like 1. Surinder Singh Sodhi - An often forgotten right hand man of Santa with piercing Lion like eyes. 2. Beant and Satwant 3. Sukha and Jinda 4. Bhai Amrak Singh And many more.

Your right, polygamy is a valid concept of marriage in Sikhi as per Sikh history and traditions. It is just liberal politically correct low IQ morons who refuse to accept that some Guru Sahiban's and majority of Sikhs had more than one wife back in the days just for sheer survival of the community also culturally and religiously it was accepted practice because when the men went off to battle and some were killed the women left behind would be vulnerable to be attacked by the enemy, kidnapped and raped to produce more muslims just as what happened in 1947. The muslim jihadi enemy always kills the males first than kidnaps the women to rape or reproduce with. You can even see it happening in afghanistan, pakistan and kashmir right now. So having multiple wives gave respectability to singleton women to get married at least and have chance to have kids especially those whose family could not find a male partner for them because the gender male to female demographic ratio was shewed so much so that women were in larger majority and there was less and less men with each battle men took part in. So to replenish stock of the Sikh community these brave women gave birth to the struggling community and helped it survived from extinction. Whereas their reproductive abilities via wombs would have gone to waste and their lives spent as spinsters contributing not much to the communities future demographics and survival. Polygamy would make sense in punjab right now if there was gender demographics were the same as the past but its the the opposite way with men outnumbering women. The only way to resolve it would be for Sikh guys to marry and convert christian, hindu and muslim women. And Sikh women were only allowed to marry Sikh men. This is where the muslims have it spot on to take over lands by sheer population number. They have made it very easy to spread their evil dark arab 7th century ideology linked by demographics.

because you don't get told: you are chosen people and the rest of humanity is trash if they are not like you you are trapped by your birth or gender to an unfufilling life with no chance of mukhti you can only gain forgiveness/kirpa if you tell your sins to another human your path is to build to an worldly empire where some specific clan/group can only rule you and dictate your behaviour you need to be born as a high caste man before you can get mukhti you are deficient in faith because you menstruate you are polluting at time of month /having given birth , cause of humanity's downfall you are a kalank because your husband dies you need to abandon your wife and family to achieve mukhti that's a good starting point but then you are told: every human has a right to faith, freedom of conscience, freedom to achieve despite accident of birth or gender, That a woman is not evil or bad just because she exists , no human has the right to be an intermediary, you have no priesthood to lord it over you (granthis are not meant to do this ) , your only task is to maintain a loving relationship with Waheguru whilst doing your worldy duties . You don't have to abandon your family to do your spiritual work . given that over 90% of people are trapped in the former situations I think it is more than fortunate I think it's a divine blessing given that it is 1 in 20 million chance of being born into this world alive not even taking faith into account .

There was nothing amazing in Muslims getting their own country, they had majorities in the areas that became Pakistan. They had a population of 95 Million. Compare it with the Sikhs being a minority in every district of Punjab and having only 5.6 Million population. Had the Sikhs had the same population as the Muslims then I am sure they would have got an independent Sikh state in 1947. If you want to compare the Sikhs with another community have achieved independence then that would have to be the Jews. The Sikh leadership in 1947 no doubt was much inferior to the Jewish leadership in Palestine.

I am not talking about his neo nazi party members. I am talking about his stance against muslims. At least muslims know they cant mess with trump.

I think the consensus is even if we dont agree with another religions beliefs or practices we still have to respect it even if it goes against our own religion.

There was nothing wrong with the SGPC or the Akali Dal until the 1970s. The fact is that when the SGPC took control of the Gurdwaras from the Mahants, the Gurdwara resources were used in Parchar for the first time since the annexation of Punjab. The SGPC and the Nankana Sahib estate which managed Nankana Sahib set up many Sikh missions outside Punjab. Since the Badals took control both the SGPC and Akali Dal have gone from being Panthic to being anti-Panth. Bhai Ranjit Singh the former Jathedar of Akal Takht is trying to gather pro-Panthic forces to take on the Badals in the SGPC elections. With the general awakening among Sikhs it is hoped that the SGPC will once come under the control of the Panth.

I see where you're going with this, bro, but it seems you might be inadvertently suggesting Sikhi would thrive only if mankind was in a dark age of ignorance, as if our faith isn't strong enough to withstand the maya and various influences of the modern age. Our concern should be to equip Sikhs with the know-how and tools to recognise and resist these somewhat destructive influences, instead of lamenting a bygone / hypothetical age of piety and religiously austerity. It's the classic "lotus in a swamp" scenario. Rise above it.

most of the goons are from traditionally weakass states/regions in terms of self-defence from invaders , rajputs will do the chanakya thing and side with who has the power , when Indira was in charge they were her mates now BJP is in charge and they are lapping up their lidh biggest difference we can make is putting our daswand into direct action in villages , supporting drung rehab and education , women's working co-operatives

The cow belt has a sizeable population of Dalits.

Nanakianism, provocatively, abnegates the political state’s infringement of personalized liberty on the fallacious ploy that the state is supreme in toto. (1) If perceived from the latter purview, it is no wonder then that the history of the Sikhs consists of unflinching resolve even in the face of abject political tyranny. The bowdlerized variation of Sikhi, promulgated by political institutes and atrophied sampradas ,depicts the Sikh as a bovine. Herded in the morning by pseudo-Saints; butchered in the afternoon by opponents of an uncaring state- a caricature fast becoming reality. Historically, the Sikhs were never hewers of wood for others. (2) Even in the early days of the twentieth century they preserved their sacred ideals like the Sikhs of the hoary past. The nomenclature of Kartar Singh Jhabbar (1874-1962) ranks among the finest of the community’s leaders during the sanguinary Gurudwara Reform Movement. Intrepid, provocative, and vociferous Jhabbar today has been reduced to just a picture on museum walls; his legend has been mitigated to render the Sikhs torpid in the face of continuing politico-religious offensives. Let the young Khalsa awaken and derive inspiration from Jhabbar- a Sikh for whom no sacrifice was too inferior to make; a true leader of men. Jhabbar emerged during a grim epoch for Sikhi. The annihilation of Sikh sovereignty in 1849 A.D. witnessed the ascendancy of the schismatic Nirmala and Udasi cults which, once an addendum of the Sikh society, were employed by the British polity to expropriate Sikh Gurudwaras: the theo-political hubs of the Sikh world. (1) To further compound their nefarious designs, the British polity effectively censored all forms of Sikh proselytizing and created the Nirmala Dharam Duja Akhara to precipitate both an identity and philosophical crisis in the Khalsa psyche. (2) The calamity produced, then, reached a boiling point when Semitic and militant Hindu proselytizing made inroads into the Sikh heartlands and Sikhs began converting owing to a lack of knowledge vis-a-vis Sikhi. A rapid recovery, however, was made with the birth of the Lahore Singh-Sabha. Composed of leading intellectuals of the day, the Lahore Sabha differed from it’s Amritsar counterpart in that that though it promulgated Sikhi from an Eurocentric purview- it concentrated heavily on praxis and proactively proselytized among all and sundry. The Amritsar Sabha, until it’s final days, could not resolve the peripheral dilemma whether religious distinctiveness and identity were worth preserving or not. The Jhabbar clan, in which Kartar Singh was born, were fanatically Sikh and detested what they perceived as being the annihilation of Sikhi on a day-to-day basis. Young men like Kartar Singh were often enrolled into regional Singh-Sabha centers, established as proselytizing outposts, and trained in the disciplines of history, oratory and theology. Jhabbar’s skill with the fighting stick when coupled with his masterful oratory stood him in good stead to preach in areas hostile to Sikhs. Word soon spread of this dynamic preacher who brokered no challenge and was also able to meet physical bellicosity head-on. In 1904 A.D. his name spread throughout the Punjab after he saved the life of proselytizer Bhai Mool Singh. The latter, a stringent opponent of both Arya-Samaj and Islamic missionaries, had been invited by a certain Ganda Singh to perform the baptismal rites of his children who wished to renounce their ancestral faith of Islam and convert to Sikhi. As the event was about to proceed an unruly mob, collated by local mullahs, attacked Mool Singh who fled to Jhabbar. Jhabbar, calmly, picked up his fighting stick and dashed towards the belligerents who were already under heavy attack from Sikhs invited to the initiation ceremony. Smashing his way through the melee, Jhabbar would leave behind him a trail of fractured bones and concussed heads. Mool Singh would profusely thank him and take a keen interest in this laconic young man whose stick could work wonders. The Gadar movement, an expatriate revolt, and the Komagata Maru incident, where would-be-migrant Sikhs were deported from Canadian waters and slain by the Colonial Indian Police upon reaching Indian shores, ubiquitously inflamed the Sikhs against the British regime. The effect of these catastrophes was further exacerbated by the Jallianwala massacre, 1919 A.D., in which the army ruthlessly mowed down hundreds of participants in a regional Congress assembly. The refusal of the British to adjudge the event as a massacre and penalize the guilty witnessed the entire sub-continent ignite in a paroxysm of rage and Europhobia. Kartar Singh Jhabbar would utilize these sanguinary days to deliver his maiden speech against the incumbent powers thus drawing their ire upon him. Yet for all his anger, Jhabbar would also be in the vanguard of Sikh bodies attempting to save the innocent from the frenzied and often directionless mobs venting their venom on alien and countrymen alike. On April 28th warrants would be issued for Jhabbar’s arraignment. After a Kangaroo court, he was deported to the Andaman Islands on June 7th. Imprisonment would only reinforce Jhabbar’s convictions and strengthen his resolve. Behind bars, he would daily meet with the deportees from both the Gadar and Komagata incidents. Contrary to the edicts from the Akal-Takhat, issued by Nirmalas and other political sycophants, vilifying these men they proved to be dedicated Sikhs and voracious readers who possessed their own library. Jhabbar, himself, had two texts on him dating back from his arraignment days: a Sikh litany and the Braj classic the Hanuman Natak. (3) He would hone his political knowledge in daily debates with these men and grow into a staunch opponent of the Indian National Congress. In 1920 A.D. he would be returned to the Punjab and released. Unbeknownst to the British, however, Jhabbar the preacher was dead. His imprisonment, abroad, had now resurrected him as Jhabbar the leader. Jathedar Jhabbar, as he was now known, soon joined a band of like-minded men and they commenced holding political communes for the Sikhs. Dispirited by years of ascetic leadership, composed of Nirmalas and Udasis, the Sikh youth actively answered Jhabbar’s call to arms and began forming themselves into political cells. Their main purpose was to represent the Sikhs in the political spectrum, but other events overtook their plans. Baba Di Ber, a historical Gurudwara, had been placed under Mahant Prem Singh who conducted the daily happenings in the Gurudwara as per the Sikh Code of Conduct. His son, however, would prove a debauch whose life was cut short by over-indulgence. Regional Hindus and Muslims would oust Prem Singh’s assistants; insinuate themselves as his daughter-in-law’s legal correspondents and transform the Gurudwara into a den of vice. The ouster of the local congregation, by the new management, angered the Central Majha Diwan which dispatched Teja Singh Bhuchar to restore Baba Di Ber’s sanctity. Bhuchar and his fifty-strong party were initially arrested but later released on a technicality. Panicking, the management rapidly dissipated in the face of their arms. The arrival of Jhabbar ensured the restoration of the Gurudwara to the congregation and soon a plan was set in motion to form an ubiquitous committee for the management of all Gurudwaras. The Gurudwara Reform Movement was born. The Movement, initially dismissed as being idealistic, however would score a notch against the Nirmala-cum-Udasi Mahant-hood when it would liberate the Sri Darbar Sahib complex from the clutches of the British. Sanataanism having penetrated the Khalsa psyche, men like Sodhi Bhan Singh and Avtar Singh Vahiraa published texts condoning the Hindu customs of Caste prejudice and misogyny. (4) These practices were rapidly introduced into Gurudwarasby the Mahants until only the haut monde could enter and offer obeisance. Lakhmir Singh, a Muslim turned Sikh revivalist, had taken a band of lower-Caste Sikh converts to the Akal-Takhat to offer sacramental food as a sign of gratitude to the Guru. The Nirmalas, therein, had openly avoided these devotees and callously elucidated that they were in no position to offer anything as their Caste was abysmal. (5) Several bodies, including representatives of the Ravidassiya brotherhood, collated and commenced taking sacramental offerings to the Darbar and being turned out by the administration. Upon hearing of this, Jhabbar swiftly reached Amritsar and joined the protests. Cornered by the congregations, the Nirmalasattempted to debate their stand with Jhabbar. When asked to provide canonical injunctions mandating Caste in Sikhi, they were forced on the back foot and started fleeing. A reading was obtained from the Adi Guru Granth which propounded the imbecility of Caste and it’s corollaries. Other than the chief administrator, all the Nirmalas fled the scene shamefaced. The Nirmalas at Akal-Takhat also beat a hasty retreat from the Darbar. Jhabbar collated a congregation on the steps of the edifice and criticized the British installed administration for it’s lapses in judgement. After declaring all edicts, passed under the latter, nullified he asked for the congregation to elect a band of seventeen volunteers to undertake the administration of the Akal-Takhat and restore it’s sanctity. Soon a jatha was formed which was placed under the charge of Teja Singh Bhuchar. Dressed in blue and black, and armed to the teeth, these men were drawn from the so-called lower-Caste Sikhs. Witnessing their election, the Nirmalas commenced sending out dispatches asserting that the lower-Castes were about to demolish the Darbar and violate other historic Gurudwaras with their unholy presence. (6) Three hundred armed Sikh volunteers however put paid to the Nirmalas‘ designs after conducting a flag march throughout Amritsar. The effect of the Gurudwara Reform Movement was beginning to be felt far and wide and even the Indian National Congress began taking note of it. Jhabbar, however, openly opposed Gandhi and forewarned the Sikhs to avoid falling for the man’s glib rhetoric. Gandhi, on the other hand, expressed false joy at the actions of the Sikhs but continually reiterated that the nation was more supreme than their 300 year old faith. (7) The Gurudwaras under the Mahants served to foster love between Hindus and Sikhs and the Sikhs should consider assimilating into the Hindu fold. (8) Jhabbar would openly denounce Gandhi at the 1920 Lahore Sikh Conference, but many such as Master Tara Singh would be ensnared by Gandhi’s mellifluous vows. Time would prove Jhabbar right. The Nirmalas, of Amritsar, in the meantime had hit upon a new stratagem to oust the Shiromani Committee (as the Movement’s leadership was known) from the Darbar. An elected band was dispatched to the vicinity of the Akal-Takhat where the Akali-Nihangsresided. Once famed for their belligerence and their guardianship of all Gurudwaras, the Akali-Nihangs had been routed by the British at Patiala and forced to flee the Punjab. Their inability to modernize their mentality and confront the grievous state of the Panth had rapidly rendered them obsolete. The Nirmalas convinced them that they had surrendered control of the Darbar for good and requested the British to restate the Akali-Nihangs in their stead. Jhabbar, and his men, however had hijacked the Akali-Nihang’s old obligations. The Budha-Dal’s variation of the event asserts that the Akali-Nihangs had been assisting Jhabbar until then; Jhabbar now refused to grant them Jathedari of Akal-Takhat and assaulted them. Based on the account of one late Anoop Singh, it is alleged that Jhabbar angrily speared the Dasam Granth and hurled it from the balcony of the Takhat. Did Jhabbar do this collaterally whilst combating the Nihangs? The Dal insists that he did this in consort with British injunctions. Three factors, however, should be taken note of here: -The paucity of evidence prior to and after the event underscoring any anti-Dasam sentiments on Jhabbar’s part. -Why was the Dasam Granth not removed on the very first day of the Nirmalas fleeing the Takhat? – Rather then employ Jhabbar, who was vilified as a malefactor until the day of partition, why did the British never utilize the service of the Nirmala poojaris to remove the Dasam Granth from the Akal-Takhat in their almost century long sway over the Darbar Sahib? Until substantiated, all allegations of Jhabbar forcefully removing the said Granth remain hearsay. The progress of the Gurudwara Reform Movement would be arrested by the events of Jaito in which the Khalsa would openly challenge the British over their forceful expulsion of Maharajah Ripudaman Singh from the throne of Nabha. Slowly, but surely, men like Master Tara Singh would align Sikh movements with the Congress’s greater aim of Hindu dominated India. Jhabbar, at his level, would oppose all coalitions between the Sikh polity and the Congress but as 1947 drew closer even he could feel the palpable desire for a bifurcated sub-continent. Attempts at establishing an autonomous Sikh nation-state were doomed by Tara Singh’s apathy until the fateful sundering was upon the Punjab. Having liberated the Gurudwaras of Punjab with his sweat and blood; witnessed the massacre of Sikhs at Nanakana Sahib at the hands of Narain Dass Udasi and wiled his life away in jails Kartar Singh Jhabbar was forced to witness the destruction of Sikh heritage in both India and Pakistan. A knight errant of the Panth, he would breath his last in 1962 A.D. Sources: (1) Deutsches Staatstecht, vol. i, sec 16; referenced by Singh K in Theo-political Status of Sri Darbar Sahib. (2) Singh M, (1956); Hazur Sahib Di Twarikh, self-published; pg. 380. (3) Singh N, (2001); Jathedar Bhai Kartar Singh Jhabbar, Dharam Parchar Committee (Amritsar), pg. 29. (4) See Singh M, pg. 340. (5) See Singh N, pg. 42. (6) Ibid, pg. 48. (7) Ibid, pg. 51-52. Additionally see Akali Dal Ate Gandhi (Giani Jujhar Singh; self-published, 1955). https://tisarpanthdotcom.wordpress.com/2018/07/08/knight-errant/ I apologize to fellow member Jonny101 for falsely castigating him during our debates on Jhabbar. I was in the wrong and I admit it. Jonny Ji was right all along.

I think you have just answered your own question.. Modern anand karaj didn't exist before 1699 but it did exist

Did the mods have a talk with you ? Lol .. Just STFU and go away loser. Stop clogging up my posts with your nastiness.

This may be the case but at least he is doing something to stop terrorists and other criminal types from going to the US. He is not perfect and dont agree with some of his policies. But overall he is sending a clear message that muslims from certain countries are not welcome. Which is something the UK government could take note of. We all know that uk is a soft touch and anyone and everyone is getting through the immigration system.

The younger generation in the UK should take control over Gurdwaras. Also stop bringing so many Granthis from India and relying on them.

Simple answer is self interest, programmed from childhood to worship and fight for the 1947 British created indian dominion nation rather than defend their spiritual Sikh religion, lack of firm belief (atheist cultural sikhs from liberal families) and money motivation. No real Sikh would attack fellow Sikhs especially any Sikh places of worship. So these fake Sikhs who are in the police, government, intelligence and army are mostly cultural Sikh atheists. Just like many in indian congress party are not Sikhs but just cultural Sikhs like captain amrinder singh. In 1980s many Sikh personnel deserted the punjab police and indian army barracks and killed their enemy indian fellow officers once darbar sahib was attacked. They even commanded tanks to attack parliament in new delhi but were intercepted and taken out by other Indian army tanks and helicopters. Had Sikhs had a firm military plan to attack military installations, army barracks, new delhi and parliament they could have taken over india rather quickly rather than wait for the enemy come to them like sitting ducks at harmandir sahib. The other mistake Sikhs made was not allying themselves with a superpower like China to aid them in their independence battle. Groups like babbar khalsa and dal khalsa relied on the sly anti-sikh snakey islamic's of pakistani establishment. Who did not militarily come to the aid of Sikhs but sat back and watched and laughed in glee as armed Indians fought and killed each other. Sikhs relied on themselves not realising the world had changed in the modern world you need help of superpowers to achieve your freedom.

True, the we had the potential to create a Sikh state had the leadership been more determined but placing any hope of the British was a big mistake just as trusting Hindu leaders like MK Gandhi and Nehru. Just as the Hindu leaders hoodwinked our leadership with their verbal assurances of a Sikh autonomous state, the British also convinced the Sikhs to accept partition without any of the 'other factors' in the terms of reference of Radcliffe being defined. Had our leaders held firm and refused to accept anything short of a Sikh state comprising 27.7% of the Punjab, that being the percentage of land that we owned in Punjab the British would have just quit and then there would have been a civil war and with a determined leadership and with the Sikh states there is no doubt that we would have achieved our 27.7% of share of Punjab as our state. That 27.7% of the British Punjab and the Sikh states would have meant that we would have had the majority of our historic Gurdwaras in the Sikh state. Our leadership by trusting the British to look after our interests allowed the British to sell us down the river and we became the lambs that the British sacrificed without any qualms in order to maintain good relations with both the Hindus and Muslims.

The US is just a few decades behind Europe and there are already Muslim ghettos there. Had lyin' Hillary won the process would have been speeded up. Trump has bought the US a decade and possibly a chance to escape the fate the Europe has consigned itself to. One of the other factors that keep the Muslims from creating trouble just yet in the fact that you have so many gun owners in the country. Imagine that Trump and the NRA being the only ones stopping the US from becoming Sweden!

Don't you think we had somewhat of a stronger hand, at least in terms of perception? We should've constantly been in the ears of the British reminding them of our role in their Imperial escapades. Yes, it might've been a little demeaning, especially for a proud people, but if it meant a country of our own at the end of it all, then why be so coy? The population aspect is valid but not the complete picture. Think Monaco, Switzerland, Luxembourg, etc. Why not a principality: should've pushed some obscure Sikh maharaja as the face of our own homeland movement, and then decades into the future makes plans to enact democratic reform? The possibilities were there for the taking. It just needed imagination and a certain selfishness in the best possible sense of the word.

One the best things old Donald did was to live up to his promise and ban entry of persons from terrorist infested countries. You have to admire him as he is one politician that has tried to keep his promises before the election.

Islam is a political movement rather than a religion and that is why the muslims were able to wrest a country for themselves. Because every thing they do has politics filter it gives them a headstart. Their world view is muslim vs non muslim so therefore that is how they approach things. We are political ourselves but our political nous is inverse. By this I mean we will scr** over our fellow Sikhs but lay down with non Sikhs. We have to reverse this somehow.

Say what you want about them, but their sianneh (I'm talking their political leadership) had the nous to wrangle their own country from the British and the Indians. That's more foresight than our bhondus managed.

It seems like no one has made a topic on the highly talked about debacle that was Justin Treadue's visit to India. So India / Indian media seems to think the Canadian PM is allies with " Khalistani elements " . They made a big deal about some random " bad guy " who was at a function of Justin Treadue , they said , why was this " khalstani " at Treadue's function . Then as he arrived to India, Chaiwala Modi was not present to greet Justin , no he sent some junior to meet him , a clear sign of disrespect. Modi himself could not meet the leader of a G7 country. Now , indian media has spewed a lot of venom against the Punjabi dispora , hating on the Nagar Kirtan parades which always feature Santa and other Shaeeds , and it's laminates any Canadian politicians that visit these parades . Just last yr, a Indian spy of German heritage was jailed for spying on German Sikh populas, which makes it even more interesting that their was a terrorist attack on a SIkh gurdwara in Germany, it seemed that the perpetrators were " muslim teens " affiliated with ISIS , but after that indian spy was caught , it seems more and more like it was RAW who committed the crime. Now lets talk about he GADDAR haram chor CM Arminder . The so called Captain spewed hatered against not just Canadian Sikh dispora regulars but also against the Sikh politicians . He even claimed that Sajjan Singh [ Canadian defense minster ] was a khalistan . It seems like the fat rat will do anything for his Delhi masters . That rat clearly loves all the cheese Delhi feeds him . So why anyone would vote Congress over AAP in Panjab blows my mind , it's like the Jews voting for the Nazi party . Also another little detail , the only thing Captain talked with Justin Treadue about was Khalistanis , lol .. He didn't talk about setting up Canadian companies in Punjab or any other economic trade deals , he just hawked on about the Khalistani in Canada . Mean while Gujrat made many economic related deals . So you wonder why Panjab can't seem to grow anything beside agriculture. Finally, lets talk about friends and all the friends India has in the south asian region. Pm Treadue wasn't pleased after getting smeared in India , he even said it was concerted effort by the Indian government to make him look bad , and they did . So India treated a G7 country with little regard simply because their hatered of their own dispora , now what will Canada do ? Canada will increase their trade even more with China . Modi only lost an ally . I mean lets be real , Pak , Bangla , Sri Lanka and even nepal don't like India . China has a base in Pak , Sri lanka and will soon have one in Bangladesh. Heck , the tiny island of Schyclles decided NOT to have a indian base on their island . Modi is getting ignored by a 3rd world island nations , hahah. China has completely surrounded the Indian ocean , with bases in Pak , Djoubouti , Sri lanka ... In case of war , China could easily blockade India . So in the long run , India bungled it self up .

unfortunately, most of the world cuts their hair as a sheep mentality, because everyone else does it. Look at America, USA. the actual natives didn't cut their hair. The European christian invaders did cut their own hairs. You see the pattern? I would say colonialism also influenced people into cutting their hair more. In India/Bharat, many people used to keep turbans, not just sikh. But the gulami/ slave-mentality increased during colonial rule. The Gurus taught sikhs to be self-automonous, to wear turbans on heads like kings, and not be treated as lower castes who were refused turbans. Also to wear double turbans, or dumallas against the rules of the islamic rulers who were banning turbans for non-muslims. A sikh should have a warrior and non-slave mentality. Be non-conformist.

Banda singh bahadhur being a rajput hindu convert to Sikhi for all his faults and flaws as a ordinary human being was a great warrior hero for the Sikh nation. His and the Khalsa's daring adventures and martyrdom eventually lead the path for sikh misls to establish themselves by more daring hit and run attacks on various anti-sikh authorities and within a few decades Sikhs had come together to establish the Sikh empire along with 5 other Sikh kingdom states. If it wasn't for banda singh bahadhur sirhind and various hostile muslim occupied area's would never have got destroyed the muslim populations would never have got forced to run away, be slain in warfare or forced to convert to sikhi and thus Sikhs would have been finished by playing too politically correct being too nice in the face of extreme persecution and extermination by the enemy. I noticed one thing about hindu converts to Sikhi they tend to be alot more fierce towards Islam and its hostile populations. Whereas Sikhs born into Sikh households tend to be alot more easy going, pluralistic and neutral or balanced when it comes to Islam and dealing with muslims. In times of hostile muslim populations then these type of Sikh converts are very useful but when its times of diplomacy, peace and co-existence they can be a liability as they tend to be still bitter and hateful towards muslims.

Ludicrously, Santa Sio Nang stepped over the bodies of the innocent Sikhs slain in Operation Bluestar to build the "sarkari takhat-" he is a hero; Banda Singh created the first Sikh Raaj, he's a villain.

When being a Granthi will pay £30,000 per annum, then homegrown Sikhs will flock to the position. That won't happen anytime soon; i'm not even sure it should.

This is also a good point. However, this shouldn't stop Sikhs from investing/creating businesses right? It should actually serve as an impetus to build better/greater cities on our own. That sentiment however is not shared by our people in Punjab.

Agreed. But I would also argue that industry was flourishing in places like Ludhiana/Amritsar. However, Sikh Punjabis aren't interested in growing those cities to the levels of Chennai or Bangalore.

Not really. His team is die hard neo-nazi and policies are being created by them. All of his actions from past year leads to him being wanting to become a dictator.

Long lasting samadhis are the only way to mukti now are they? What fuddu gaapi Sant do you follow? These samadhi type bhenchods, hiding from the world, are &lt;banned word filter activated&gt; trolls.

And that's exactly the problem with you fanboys. He's obviously pushing profiteering under the veneer of religiosity but what do we have here? Idiots falling for it hook, line and sinker.