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As a foreign convert, who is not yet Amritdhari I don't tie one. I will not keep full Saroop until I'm worthy to do so. That is also something I will have to learn right before receiving Amrit.

How do you tie a dastaar without doing a joorha?

Taken from manglacharan.com Daily Chandi Di Vaar - Sau Sakhi ਹੂਆ ਬਚਨ ਤਬ ਸੰਗਤੀਂ ਸ਼ਸਤ੍ਰ ਬਾਂਧਹੁ ਨਿੱਤ । The command then was announced to the congregation, Forever strap oneself with weapons ਸੁਨਿਆ ਮੰਨਿਆ ਬਚਨ ਤਬ ਸ਼ਸਤ੍ਰ ਸੰਗਤ ਮਿਤ । Then the congregation listened and obeyed the command, Fostering great friendship with weapons ਲੜਤੀ ਸੰਗਤ ਗੁਰੂ ਕੀ ਸੁਨਿ ਪਿਖ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਦਿਆਲ । The combative congregation of the Guru listened to the words and saw the Compassionate True Guru ਵਾਰ ਭਗਉਤੀ ਪੜਿਆ ਕਰੋ ਸੰਗਤ ਤੁਰਕ ਨਿਸਾਲ । [Who commanded] to read Chandi Di Vaar daily, And thus the congregation will destroy the Turks Sakhi 66, page 153-154 Volume 2 6d

Amen to that bro. I bet 19 people just noped right out of that put up job.

The BJP and indian media are spinning this to be a dalit hate crime....completely ridiculous. The fauja are by and large made up of Mazabi Singhs (Dalits). The fauja don't live in fear of the corrupt law, they answer to a higher authority. They own very little and don't have the same economic considerations when taking these kinds of actions. Another thing, that lakbir mentioned there were a total of 20 of them hired to instigate and cause beadbi, im sure the remaining 19 won't want to carry through now. This beadbi trend is out of control simply beacause we have a huge tolerance level. Why this beadbi doesn't happen at hindu mandirs or at mosques, i wonder? Each time a culprit is caught, he/she happens to have "mental illness". I wonder why. I bet the beadbi inccidents are about to come down now.

No surprise there. Indian media is also painting this out to be a Dalit hate crime.

Oh okay. Good luck. Then do you just have your kesh out? I'm not amritdhari yet but I've been wearing a dastaar since around when I was 5. My kesh are long (like up to my knees) so I only properly learnt to do a joorha like last year, my mum used to do it. I wrap my kesh around my hand once to create like a circle thingy and then wrap it like twice or three times underneath it and then pull the remaining kesh through the circle thingy and then the two or three times I've wrapped it underneath kind of goes inside the circle thingy, and then pull the remaining kesh and secure it and then wrap that remaining kesh around it once. That probably didn't make sense but I hope that helped.

As @Ranjeet01 was saying my ancestors were Dharmi. We are known to have a very resilient oral culture but at the same time we have been so devestated that we have nothing left to draw from but that. So only our spirit remains committed to Dharam Yudh and we cling to that as our only culture. Many ethnic punjabi Sikhs feel stifled by being born a Sikh in this Kalyug. Because of the fog of forgetting they don't know how hard they had to work to be born a Sikh. My mind is capable of devouring any manmat in no time. It has taken a lifetime of of doing my wretched best, the fool, to get even an entry..an audience...with this SadhSangat. One can learn all the knowledge of this world in little time, one can study Gurmat an entire lifetime and not find the end to it's magnificence. My mind is not capable of absorbing Gurmat at the rate it eats and discards manmat. What I'm trying to get at really, is if you are born Sikh, work hard in that direction. You paid so much to get here. You're sitting on the greatest treasure in creation. The Rehit isn't to stifle your joy. It's the key to the universe. We need to reinvest ourselves in Purtan Gursikhi and go all in.

Indian born sikhs are too damn materialistic and only think about money. They dont even care about their daughters marrying non sikhs. There was a documentary on youtube showing a sikh women married to a hindu and how she could not raise her child to be like a khalsa and lo and behold it had so many dislikes from hindus saying how this is anti hindu blah blah sikhs and hindus are same. Problem with indian born sikhs is they are too brainwashed into believing that they and hindus are the same so they dont see anything wrong in following anti sikh rituals or ending sikhi in their bloodline through marrying out. Fools i would say. Imagine having the gift of being born into sikhi and then throwing it away. I hate how hindus have to insert themselves into everything related to sikhs. We cant even make documentaries about our religion to teach our youth without these people always trying to tell us what is wrong and right.

The problem with us is our roots have become very weak because the previous generations did not pass on sikhi at all. I mean i see people who come to canada from villages in punjab and you can barely see any sikhi in them. I sometimes have no hope in them passing on sikhi to their kids who will be born here. My parents barely taught me anything about sikhi just made me memorise paath and told some stories. But sikhi is spritiual and cannot just be understood by memorizing paath. We need to understand what the paath that we are saying everyday means. What it is telling us and how to implement it in our lives. Thats where we fail because the parents dont know anything and only teach surface level stuff to kids who then think its all about rituals.We dont have strong roots anymore. Sikhi is not as easy as just believe in jesus and you are saved. You have to keep learning and evolving and understanding throughout your life. But when majority of these people are not emotionally intelligent you cant really expect them to be strong in sikhi because they barely understand it. I see my own aunt(father's sister) who barely teaches her kids anything about sikhi. When they were young she would make them memorize paath, telling names of gurus and stories( which is not bad) but the kids barely know what the paath that they say everyday means. And to top it all of my aunt herself probably doesnt understand what the paath says because her behavior is so anti sikh like including being obsessed with money, parent's property show off, drinking wine and thinking you are modern. Its so sad and is quite evident that she does not understand an iota of sikhi although she does read paath from gutka everyday. They have made it into rituals where you just read paath and god will help you. They dont understand anything. Im sometimes worried about my cousins because they live in alabama and im worried about them being targetted by those southern Christians. They are young right now like just teenagers and impressionable. Anytime i tell my aunt that what she does is againt sikhi they all laugh at me and say I'm too serious. how can you expect anything from such people?

any person who has been stupid enough to complain about how barbaric and how we should let the authorities deal with justice and punishment I have come back with the point that if you side with the GOI and police then you should be ashamed of yourself because by your words and thought process you would think Baba Deep Singh ji was wrong , Bhai Sukha Singh ji and Bhai Mehtab Singh ji were wrong , even Guru Gobind Singh ji were wrong for killing people who did beadbhi . Also waiting for justice from the people paying for the crimes to be committed is mentally deranged. Good, people are now saying that maybe gurdwarey should be handed back to nihangs/Khalsey at least they are starting to feel something other than the propaganda has merit . over 700 shaheeds on the morcha and no one in India is shouting it from the rafters , one moot peenwala da chamcha dies due his own bad choices and its headline news everywhere , shows where India's intelligence is somewhere in their gittey

Tie your dastar or small keski around your waist, like a kamar kassa then put your kanga in it. Best to tuck kirpan into keski as well to stop it from dangling around. Putting kanga into gatra will make it much more prone to dropping. If you tie a keski around your waist and put kanga and kirpan in it, there will be a much less chance of beadbi

We criticize people for not doing enough to combat beadbi, and then when they do? He's turned himself in.

The last thing that needs to happen in India today is for a Dalit or anyone else of similar status to be killed at the hands of a Sikh. If a vulnerable, desperate person is being paid off by higher powers to instigate bother and strife in order to besmirch Sikhs, the victim is always going to be the poor sod roped into the scheme as a patsy. IF this is a devious plan to smear Sikhs, then the people who organised it have got exactly what they wanted. On the other hand - and I say this with some reservation - the Singhs did what they had to do, and in that junglee country what they did was to send a clear message out to anyone else thinking of doing a similar act. Unfortunately, most of the people of that country understand one particular type of language, and sadly it's the one these Singhs were compelled to speak.

Very humbling observation brother. I appreciate your perspective.

No kidding bro. Any future potential jobers are going to instictly rub their wrists in the future.

Interesting. Sant Jairnail Singh Bhinderwale Shaheed Ji got people off afeem and they use it as a way to stoke violence and get some junkie wrecked.

100 percent. I was reading about the guy and he was a drug addict whose wife and kids left him years ago. We all know addicts do the dumbest stuff to get their next fix. However, what's interesting is that his sister stated that he used to talk on the phone with "higher ups." There is an outfit funding these events.

We can pretty much know with certainty which two parts of that man were used to strike Maharaja. Let's see...left hand...and uh...right foot. Naughty naughty. And if this wasn't like Lahkbir, who turned him into a crash test dummy?

It's been happening regularly to @dallysingh101 for some time. And if you know a certain detail it only makes it more obvious that certain people are being targetted not their content.

Sup @Big_Tera ?

https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/creators-of-tough-turban-say-it-ll-make-riding-safer-for-sikh-motorcyclists-1.5481152 Jeremiah RodriguezCTVNews.ca Writer @jererodriguezzz Contact Published Tuesday, June 22, 2021 4:18PM EDTLast Updated Wednesday, June 23, 2021 3:36PM EDT SASKATOON -- Some turban-wearing motorcyclists in Canada have had helmet exemptions for years, but a Sikh man wants riders like his father to feel safer with his new protective turban that features bulletproof laminate and foam that hardens on impact. Vic Bath, one of the creators behind “Tough Turban,” said he was inspired by his father who always dreamed of having a Harley-Davidson motorcycle growing up in India. “He finally eventually got one much later in life. But to him, Harley always represented the idea of freedom,” he told CTVNews.ca during a joint interview with other creators behind the project. “I thought if it means that much to him, it must surely mean that much to other Sikhs who ride motorcycles.” Related Stories 'What does a Canadian look like?': The first Mountie to wear a turban reflects on racism and inclusivity Ontario to allow Sikhs to ride motorcycles without wearing helmets Alberta Sikhs to be exempt from motorcycle helmet law Rites of passage: Ont. site promises dedicated space for Sikhs, Hindus to scatter ashes How offensive words don't wind up on vanity licence plates Related Links See more about Tough Turban here The prototype design, which hasn’t hit production yet, took two years to develop. Bath, a creative lead at marketing firm Zulu Alpha Kilo, worked closely with Spark Innovations, industrial designers who’ve helped develop other unique protective headgear; and Pfaff Harley-Davidson, which sells motorcycles across Ontario. Brandon Durmann, a marketing specialist at Pfaff Harley-Davidson who helped get the word out on the idea, said many of their customers in Toronto, Brampton, Vaughn happen to be Sikh. “So this is a really good opportunity for us to showcase that and really put a face to our customers and give them a voice,” Durmann said. Tough Turban’s chain-mail-like design features bulletproof laminate called Dyneema and a foam that hardens on impact that’s used in military armour and helmets. The design, which also includes 3D-printed chainmail lining, pays homage to how early traditional Sikh warriors used to affix chainmail onto their turbans before battle. Chris Pearen, president of Spark Innovations whose firm helped create the prototype, said his team consulted with Sikh riders, including the Sikh Motorcycle Club of Ontario. “We included several materials that are currently used in other motorcycle clothing protection to layer up the turban to get to where we are today,” Pearen said. Jagdeep Singh, spokesperson for the Sikh Motorcycle Club of Ontario, told CTVNews.ca in a phone interview he's "really excited" about the prototype but said more needs to be done before his group can endorse it. “We welcome the freedom to ride message that the Tough Turban touts, however for now, it strictly remains a concept. The idea needs to be developed further and tested for practical daily wear," he explained. “In the meantime, Sikhs should have the same freedoms to ride in Saskatchewan, Quebec and the eastern provinces. We continue our fight to seek helmet exemption for turban wearing riders in these provinces, and the ability to broaden the benefits that come from charitable rides led by our club.” TOUGH TURBAN ALLOWS FOR EXPRESSION: BATH Wearing a turban is a deeply important symbol for Sikhs and some motorcyclists of the faith have had helmet exemptions for years. British Columbia and Manitoba first granted Sikhs a helmet exemption in 1999, with Ontario and Alberta following suit in 2018. Bath said the idea behind the Tough Turban “really came out of how we can celebrate the fact that people have the ability to have self-expression while riding a motorcycle but use the latest protective gear within that.” But designers behind the “Tough Turban” acknowledge that despite it having safety material such as D30-like shock absorbers, it doesn’t offer the same kind of impact resistance and protection as a traditional full-face motorcycle helmet. However, if you’re looking to nab one of the Tough Turban’s, you’re out of luck, at least for now. Although riders can download the “open source” documentation of their design, none of the parties involved have committed to mass production yet, but that could change soon as popularity for the idea has taken off on social media. Videos of the turban prototypes have racked close to 20,000 views on Pfaff’s YouTube and Instagram feeds. And Bath and the team said some motorcycle apparel manufacturers -- including some overseas -- have been reaching out asking how they collaborate or be a part of potentially scaling up the idea. “We received a lot of overwhelming positivity from around the world, which has been amazing… and it's been great to see that really embraced by the Sikh community from everywhere.” One of those people is motorcycle enthusiast Shamsher Singh Sidhu, who tested out the Tough Turban in the videos. “Tying a turban to me is more than just a fashion statement, it’s a whole heritage, it’s your freedom to express yourself, your identity. And that’s what riding is to me – being on an open road, feeling the wind on you, it’s just freedom.” RELATED IMAGES Spark Innovations, the firm helped create the prototype, consulted with Sikh riders to ensure the Dyneema material was flexible enough to be tied into a turban. (The Moto Foto | Dan Lim) Vic Bath wants riders like his father to feel safer with his new protective turban called the 'Tough Turban' that features bulletproof laminate and foam that hardens on impact. (The Moto Foto | Dan Lim)

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Indeed. But we know how to stay in our house. And I think our enmity with invaders goes back to the events described by Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaja in his Bani.

Tldr version. The Irish made a huge mistake converting to catholicism. After a thousand whatever of years of fighting off the vikings, romans, and anglo saxons, we were given a chance to join christendom and be off limits too the other christian nations. Not knowing how christianity had been usurped and inverted we took to it quite dutifully with the ignorance of real believers. Only to find out the hard way we were sold into servitude and betrayed by the pope and then raped and molested in every fashion. Not having our previous traditions we were not able to fend off the wasps. The Irish color spectrum goes from black to green to orange and that bit...tsk tsk.

Well since this thread started, i never really thought about it, but you guys have really made me thinking but will buy land properties in Panjab and all other cities like Bangalore , when i am able too lol (need to make $$$ first)

Hah. No Bhenji. That's Akal's mercy on me. I looked eveywhere for the Truth before collapsing here. I only have Gurmat and the Sangat to thank for educating this wretch. We are so blessed with the amount of Sikhi available to us right now, and the ability to keep these kinds of Sangat. The Guru is still preparing me for Amrit.

Beautiful word, bro. That's exactly what it is. It's the antithesis of Sikh values; hand-wringing, helplessness, and the constant perpetuation of being victims when they're actually not. There's a difference between acknowledging stark issues and their impact on people in the hope of attempting a way out of the mire, and then there's what these people do which is simply a desire to revel in misery. But then for these folks Sikhi is nothing more than a label; for them it's nothing to be adhered to in seriousness aside from when it affords them some kind of imagined and selfish privilege.

Plenty of Indians will do whatever they are lead to believe by the media or by bribe.

The irony seems to be lost on certain far left females. They are 100 percent identical to the white, male, cheating, abusing, good for nothing stereotype they purport to hate. Unemployed. Narcissistic. Quick to anger Controlling. A lot of this ...modern thinking seems to simply alleviate them of having any responsibility, discipline, commitment or role of any kind. It's delidri. Like I'm all for equal rights. Which half of this work load is yours? Your choice.

In so called christian countries it's quite easy to get one to hate and kill in the name of Jesus ironically. But most definitely that narrative would be harder to pull in india. They better keep milking Singhs for muscle.

^^^ Strange to see mainstream Indian media producing an article like that ^^^ which basically acknowledges Sikh problems and our separateness from the Hindu majority. You'd think they'd privately be gleeful at the prospect of us abandoning the religion. They're probably worried what it might mean for Indian army recruitment numbers if we all start going to church. ?

https://www.indiatvnews.com/news/india/why-christian-missionaries-are-trying-to-convert-sikh-youths-in-punjab-aaj-ki-baat-episode-october-13-rajat-sharma-blogpost-740309 Opinion | Why Christian missionaries are trying to convert Sikh youths in Punjab? In some cases, Sikh youths have been offered money and other allurements like visas for US and Canada. Rajat Sharma@RajatSharmaLiveNew DelhiUpdated on: October 14, 2021 13:50 IST Image Source : INDIA TV Opinion | Why Christian missionaries are trying to convert Sikh youths in Punjab? Reports about conversion of Sikh youths to Christianity by missionaries in the border areas of Punjab are disturbing. Most of these conversions have been reported from rural and border areas of Punjab like Batala, Gurdaspur, Jalandhar, Ludhiana, Fatehgarh Churian, Dera Baba Nanak, Majitha, Ajnala and Amritsar. The officiating Jathedar of Sri Akal Takht Giani Harpreet Singh has alleged that Christian missionaries have been carrying out conversions in these belts by luring poor Sikh youths. In some cases, Sikh youths have been offered money and other allurements like visas for US and Canada. The president of Shiromani Gurdwara Parbandhak Committee Bibi Jagir Kaur has launched a counter-drive by sending nearly 150 teams of Sikh preachers, who are trying to convince Sikh youths not to convert to other religions. There are seven preachers in each team and they have been sent to Majha, Malwa and Doaba regions of Punjab. The SGPC drive is named ‘Ghar Ghar Andar Dharamsaal’, which means ‘sacred shrine inside every home’. Bibi Jagir Kaur has said, “our teams of preachers stay for a week in each village, they invite the Sikh Sangat to recitation of Gurbani, Sikh ‘rehat maryada’ (code of conduct), Sikh history and religious principles. Free religious literature on Sikhism is distributed to people to stop them from converting to other religions.” Rising rate of conversions to Christianity has justifiably caused alarm among the Sikh clergy and intellectuals. To counter ‘prayer meetings’ by Christian evangelists, Sikh preachers assemble children inside gurudwaras every evening to teach them the correct recitation of Gurbani (religious hymns) and to create awareness about Sikh religion. The campaign concludes with ‘amrit sanchar’ (initiation rites) on the last day. Christian missionaries are travelling in buses mostly in rural areas of Punjab bordering Pakistan, where they try to spread the gospel. They mostly concentrate on Dalit Mazhabi Sikhs and offer inducements for converting to Christianity. They conduct meetings in villages and induce Dalit Mazhabi Sikh youths to convert and enjoy a good life in developed countries like the US and Canada. Videos are being circulated on social media on how evangelists are trying to convert these Sikh youths, mostly in border areas. This has naturally raised concerns about national security. In my prime time show ‘Aaj Ki Baat’ on Wednesday night, we showed a video sent by Akali Dal leader Manjinder Singh Sirsa. The video showed a village in Ludhiana district, where Sikh elderly persons confronted a team of Christian evangelists and asked them to leave the village. The missionaries were moving from house to house and asking people to convert. The elderly Sikhs in the village told the missionaries that Punjab is the land of the Tenth Badshah, and they need not spread the word of Christianity here. Our correspondent Punit Parinja met a local Sikh leader Gurmail Singh of Dhanoor village, and asked him about the authenticity of the video. Gurmail Singh said, nearly 10 to 15 days ago, 25 to 30 Christian evangelists came to the village and started distributing pamphlets which stated, ‘Join us, we will take you on the path to God’. Some villagers told our reporter that the missionaries were offering jobs and money for converting to Christianity. Akali leader Manjinder Singh Sirsa told India TV that missionaries have tried to lure Sikh youths by offering to arrange visas and get them settled in the US or Canada. He alleged that such evangelists are active in several districts of Punjab. The Jathedar of Sri Akal Takht Giani Harpreet Singh said, “whatever is happening amounts to an attack on Sikh religion. Missionaries of Church are misguiding people and offering inducements. This is a big danger and Sikh samaj should come forward and fight this menace with full might.” Our reporter showed the video to senior Punjab police officers. One police officer of DSP rank said, till now, they have not received any complaint about forced conversion from anybody, but since the video has surfaced, police would speak to villagers and probe the matter. SGPC chief Bibi Jagir Kaur told India TV that those who are harbouring illusions about converting Sikhs to their religion, should know that the roots of Sikh religion run very deep. Any amount of inducements will not help in religious conversions, she added. Bibi Jagir Kaur said, “we are not in competition with any other religion, nor do we fear anybody. Sikh religion is so strong that no amount of inducements will succeed. We are not afraid of evangelists. We will continue with our own drive for spreading the tenets of Sikh religion among our people. Only people who are mentally weak will agree to convert to another religion. I do not consider those who have converted as true Sikhs. A true Sikh can never be misguided nor can he convert to another religion because of inducements. Sikhs are taught since childhood to offer supreme sacrifice for the sake of religion.” We sought reaction from Rev. Sunil Solomon from the Church of North India. He said, “our evangelists spread the message of love and Christ’s teachings among the people. We are against forced conversions. It is up to the people to decide which religion they want to choose.” I was surprised when I read reports about Christian missionaries active in the sensitive border areas of Punjab. They should know that Sikhs are a martial race and they have a long history of offering supreme sacrifice for the sake of defending their religion. The history of Sikhs is replete with stories of supreme sacrifices and bravery of the Gurus and their disciples. These evangelists must know that it was Guru Teg Bahadur who took up the sword against Mughal rulers to save Kashmiri Pandits from being forcibly converted to Islam. The Guru himself refused to be converted to Islam and offered supreme sacrifice. The brave sons of Guru Govind Singh refused to be converted to Islam, and opted for martyrdom. Had the Christian evangelists read the history of Sikhs, they would not have ventured to convert people in Punjab. The second point is that, Sikhs have a long history of community service. During calamities, both natural and manmade, Sikhs are the first to come forward to set up community kitchens (langars) to offer food to the needy. The very essence of organizing ‘langar’ in all Sikh gurudwaras is that nobody must sleep on an empty stomach. The gurudwaras offer free medicines, treatment and education to the poor. It is, however, a fact that there is a craze among Sikh youths to opt for better living and they yearn for visas to go to the US, UK or Canada. By dangling inducements like arranging visas, the evangelists may be luring some of the youths to convert, but the Sikh community has now become alert, after the Jathedar of Akal Takht and the SGPC chief have sounded the alarm. The missionaries will not succeed in their aim. The teachings of Guru Nanak have been guiding the Sikhs for several centuries. The nation remains indebted to the Sikh community, which has given supreme sacrifices for defending India.

Sikhs show their devotion to God by not cutting or trimming their hair, meaning any attempt to do so is deeply offensive. Mr Singh, who's family do not want his full name used as he is still in hospital, said staff were rude and "had an attitude problem" when they tried to arrange Zoom calls. @dallysingh101 - maybe this was 'naughty' but also possible, the care worker/nursing staff thought 'let's make it easier by not having to maintain his beard during washes/dressing' - not that this is a justification, especially given how a good percentage of the hospital's patients must be Sardars. Wonder how close the family was or tried to help prevent this happen, maybe they could have done more ? Hillingdon Hospital 'needlessly' shaved Sikh's beard By Joseph Reaidi & Chris Dyer He was transferred from Northwick Park to Hillingdon Hospital https://www.harrowtimes.co.uk/news/19645342.hillingdon-hospital-needlessly-shaved-sikhs-beard/ A hospital has apologised after nurses “needlessly” cut the beard of a Sikh pensioner who was being treated for a stroke and tried to hide what happened from his family. The furious relatives of the 71-year-old man said because his facial hair was trimmed without permission or for any medical reason it amounted to a human rights violation. Mr Singh was take to Northwick Park Hospital, Harrow, in August after his latest stroke and was then shortly moved to Hillingdon Hospital – run by the Hillingdon Hospitals NHS Trust. Hillingdon Hospital was not allowing face-to-face visits with patients, leaving family members having to contact loved ones via video as recently as last month. Manpreet Aujla said her father was very sensitive about his hair and beard and would not have consented to the trim had he been able to talk. The dad-of-two from Southall, west London, has been unable to communicate and can only partially move his right arm since suffering five strokes and a bleed on the brain. A complaint was made the following day to the ward manager and a video call showing his full face was allowed, the family claimed. The hospital denies staff attempted to conceal the beard trim and said that wearing of face coverings in the hospital was standard practice. Ms Aujla, 27, said: "They [staff] would only show his eyes in the video and he had a mask on pulled up to his eyes. "I got a glimpse of his face and said 'what's happened to my dad's beard?' A ward manager said he was unaware it had been cut. I just started crying, I had never seen my dad like that. The whole family was so distressed. "And I know it would really upset him because even if people mentioned trimming his beard he wouldn't talk to them for ages. He didn't like anyone even touching his beard. There's no way he would have consented to that. "When I asked why he had a face mask on, the staff said 'because of Covid', but no other patients had them on. "When I asked them if there was a clinical need, there was no reason given. This would only have needed to be done if there was surgery being carried out. The manager just said 'it will grown back', which shows how little they understand about Sikhs." Ms Aujla added: "I think he was being discriminated against because he is not as active as he was last time he was in the hospital. I don't think they were paying attention to him and were just leaving him and not doing much rehab." The Sikh Federation has also backed Mr Singh's family and staff at Hillingdon Hospital will have known not to cut his hair as many observers of the religion live and work in the area. The federation has written to health minister Sajid Javid and shadow minister, Jon Ashworth, calling for a full investigation into how the incident took place and what disciplinary action will be taken. Bhai Amrik Singh, chair of the Sikh Federation UK said: “It is impossible to describe in words the impact on a Sikh of his hair being removed without consent and with no clinical reasoning. This is a gross violation of the patients’ human rights and his right to practice his faith for which heads must roll. “We can only imagine the trauma of this outrageous act on the mental well-being of the 71-year old stroke victim who has already been suffering for over six weeks. “His family are deeply upset by the actions of staff at Hillingdon Hospital who firstly completely disrespected their father’s faith followed by an attempted cover up that makes the situation even worse." Hillingdon Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust claimed it takes "equality and spiritual wellbeing extremely seriously" and has policies to safeguard religious beliefs and cultural practices. A spokesman for the trust said: "We would like to apologise to the family for any distress we may have caused - this was an honest mistake made during our care for this patient and we have carried out an investigation into the incident, to learn from it and help ensure it does not happen again. "We are in ongoing contact with the family and our chief executive, Patricia Wright, has also reached out to the Sikh Federation to discuss any broader concerns they may have.”

Devil's Advocate: isn't that just shuffling around on the periphery occupying ourselves with activities far removed from the actual core power structure where decisions are actually made and things get done, while deluding ourselves we're making a difference with busy-work that barely makes a dent in the long-term picture? Isn't that what happens when a Gurdwara committee has a falling out, and a splinter group breaks off to open up another Gurdwara (this time a little smaller and dingier than the main one) a few streets away, lol? The problems in the original committee that caused the aggravation aren't tackled; they're left to fester and exacerbate while another future committee conflict is seeded with the opening of another building. And so it goes on. I think there'll need to come a moment when renegade yet ultimately big-picture-seeing loyalist elements within the panth will have to be brave and take on those who've occupied the seats of power and influence in unequivocal terms. The slander, emotional blackmail, name-calling, etc., will be relentless, but the end result, if seen through, will be tremendous. Of course, the constantly fearful or brainwashed or those who've grown rich, fat, and wealthy thanks to the current system will try their darndest to put a dampener on things because it means their ride on the gravy train is coming to an end. Change needs to happen IN Punjab IN those institutions. That place needs a clearing out. Messing around with other stuff is just a huge coping strategy IMO.

Amen to all that bro. Amen to that too. Amen to that too. And, those Gurudwara are also run by money and democracy. Reiterate @dallysingh101 we have to start parallel ground level movements. I would add to that, do away with voting and institute representative selections and Panj Pyare, and demonitize as much of the Panth as we can, and instead deal in Seva. We only need so many buildings, and we could substitute rural land holdings for half the ones we do have already. The buildings only have to be so nice. And Langar only costs so much. It should not take much money to run a Gurudwara, and even when dealing in less cash than now, we should be able to use that smaller amount of money and still afford to pay Granthis and others for their fulltime services. Bungas basically pay for themselves, since people have to pay rent somewhere anyway. What's more important is what we can provide for each other through collaboration. Secondary to all that is what we can do for the world, life itself, others. We cannot draw a circle around ourselves, nor can we bend over backwards serving others while we ignore our own house.

One man out of a tiny minority within a slightly bigger minority, lol. Time to accept that perhaps it's over from a collective perspective, and consider individual efforts for personal spiritual advancement? I continue repeating myself but India-based Sikhs are a lost cause. They're gone. They have two modes: either total Punjabiyat crassness and hedonism, or adherence to a surface level Sikhi that hasn't penetrated their inner selves. That's it. Those who buck these trends don't have enough numbers to make a difference.

I think one big factor (at least) might be that we've tied it into Panjabi identity and not extrapolated the universal aspects of it? Language/linguistic skills are also an issue. Also, let's keep it real. In terms of what outsiders would call a preacher (or us a parchaarak), our lot (in comparative terms), have these really unanimated, dry, boring personalities compared to others. That's probably another factor why so many people felt Bhai Jagraj Singh, he wasn't like that. I think a lot of Americans would actually like Sikhi, especially because of Sikhi's pro-weapons stance, and right to self defence and history of challenging oppressive, powerful governments. But if we promote this, and the apnay they encounter don't match the description and start showing sycophantic tendencies.......well.....they'll only see them as lesser beings (understandably).

Bhai jagraj singh was western too and i think he had much more impact within the past few years than any of the sgpc people. We have bad apples too but then we have enough good apples who can help our community in numerous ways. SGPC and people back home are just sleeping. One problem with us is we do not know how to relate to non sikhs and i dont know why this is.

From what I've heard alcohol parties are heavily involved in garnering votes.

but i dont understand this. White christians are racist too and so are arab muslims but blacks and south asians still become christians even after history of enslavement why? Its all because of money. They pay people money and benefits to change their religion. And most people are more worried about filling their stomach than caring about spirituality which is why our guru started langar because he knew how can humans focus on spirituality when their stomachs are empty. These people do not care about spirituality or the truth . They only care about benefits dont we all do which is why we came to the west? Very very very few people in this world are spiritually strong who will not stop believing in the truth for any amount of worldly desires. Now your avg pendu is not gonna be spiritually enlightened are they?

https://www.mylondon.news/news/west-london-news/hospital-removes-71-year-old-21787688 Hospital removes 71-year old Sikh stroke victim's facial hair illegally in 'gross violation of human rights' The family claims the hospital tried to cover up their mistake by covering his face with a mask on video calls By Ben Kempton 10:59, 7 OCT 2021 The family of Mr Singh wanted his eyes to be pixelated for safety reasons A West London hospital breached a 71-year-old Sikh stroke victim’s religious beliefs by removing his beard without family consent. Mr Singh, whose family don’t want him to be named for safety reasons, was left unable to speak after suffering a stroke. The man from Ealing was submitted to Hillingdon Hospital where they cut his beard without obtaining his permission or seeking the consent of his family. In the Sikh religion, a beard signifies their commitment to the religion. The Rehat Maryada explicitly forbids cutting or shaving any body hair for initiated Sikhs. The Hillingdon Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust called it an 'honest mistake' The family claim this would have been well known to staff at Hillingdon Hospital given the local demographics and high proportion of Sikhs living and working at the hospital. They believe the staff subsequently tried to hide their actions from them by covering his chin with a face mask during video calls. His daughter last week during a video call noticed her father was unusually wearing a normal mask and was told this was because of Covid. In a follow up video call the next day nurses would only show the eyes of the 71-year old. A complaint was made the following day to the ward manager and a video call showing his full face was permitted. His family members were shocked to see that their father’s moustache and beard had been trimmed by staff and they offered no clinical reasoning for cutting his facial hair. His daughter Manpreet told MyLondon: “I broke down and started crying because I’ve never seen him like that, he always had a beard when I grew up. “The way they covered up their mistake made it even worse. All we wanted as a family was a written apology but they refused. The staff were really rude and now they have stopped us from having any video calls with him. “We are unhappy with the NHS and we want to take it further. I would encourage anyone else that this has happened to, to do the same. This is not right.” Mr Singh’s daughter has now reached out to the Sikh Federation (UK), who has written to Sajid Javid, the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care. The Sikh Federation (UK) has also written to Patricia Wright, the Chief Executive of Hillingdon Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust, demanding answers, and called for a full investigation on how the incident took place. The family has been advised it may sue Hillingdon Hospital NHS Foundation Trust for failing to observe the law that protects patients from such abuse. Bhai Amrik Singh, the Chair of the Sikh Federation (UK) said: “It is impossible to describe in words the impact on a Sikh of his hair being removed without consent and with no clinical reasoning. “This is a gross violation of the patients’ human rights and his right to practice his faith for which heads must roll. “They knew what they had done to compromise Mr Singh’s faith was a major mistake and unforgivable.” He added: “We can only imagine the trauma of this outrageous act on the mental well-being of the 71-year old stroke victim who has already been suffering for over 6 weeks. “His family are deeply upset by the actions of staff at Hillingdon Hospital who firstly completely disrespected their father’s faith, followed by an attempted cover up that makes the situation even worse. A spokesperson for the Hillingdon Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust said: "We would like to apologise to the family for any distress we may have caused. "This was an honest mistake made during our care for this patient and we have carried out an investigation into the incident, to learn from it and help ensure it does not happen again.

I agree. This must be fully investigated. Can't trust anyone. I know of an elderly family friend who has carers and is convinced they stole money from her purse. The news article if 'naughty' is a lot worse though.

Surely in an area like Uxbridge, with the big Sikh population in surrounding areas, people would know about the significance of kesh to Sikhs. This seems 'naughty'?

If you treat people like dirt then this is what happens. Sikhi was meant to end the caste system or at least make everyone equal. Almost 600 years later it still hasn't done it.

Traditionally Sikhs did shastar pooja on Dusherah and then had mock fights.

Yes, we were. I think it's quite funny. ? We'll never reach the summit of the hierarchy bossed by the Brahmin. Don't you forget it!

Historically Dushera is a hindu festival, and is celebrated in remeberance of Ram, the son of king Dashrath. Ram was an incarnation of Vishnu jee. People rejoice in celebrating it, as Ram rescued his wife Sita and killed the demon Ravan. It represents the victory of goodness over evil. For us as sikhs, we can have another more accurate view about this whole scene in the perspective of sikhee. Our soul is represented as Sita, the ten headed demon Ravan, as the mind with its ten heads as 5 karam indriyas and 5 gyan indriyas. This demon mind has kept us prisoners in this mayavee creation; keeping us apart from our Lord Wahiguru. This demon, plays tricks upon us, in the form of vaasnas, trishnas, etc, in order to divert our attention, our rememberance of our true Lord Wahiguru, towards the perisahble mayavee creation But then, the soul, using the Name or Naam of Wahiguru and making Him pargat within, He is manifested as Shabad Guru, who defeats this dusht mind or kaal, and takes the wadbhgee soul back to Sach Khand, our true everlasting blissful land... once the soul reaches there, there is an endless festival of Lights, of the Jot of Wahiguru. Outer dusheras and diwalis last only a few days, but, in the inner spiritual realms, there is constant Diwali, when the bride soul, gets reunited with the beloved Wahiguru Well, this was a play... an mystical interpretation of this seasonal festival .... Sat Sree Akal.