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It is what it is. Gotta move on.

That's all well and good but as I've said many times, in the modern age Demographics matter. If Sikhs+Hindus formed more than 50% of the population of Lahore then it would have gone to India but they didn't so that's that. Even in Amritsar Sikh + Hindus barely had a majority over muslims. Furthermore in Pre Partition there were more muslims in East Punjab than there were Sikhs and Hindus in West Punjab. More of them had to migrate than we did. I don't get this obsession with Lahore. I'll say it again - Partition was brutal but in the long run it was good for us. I rate Jinnah for having the foresight in seeing that Muslims and non Muslims won't get along and that's been proven again and again.

you mean breed after getting married right? and you are saying all monas are strong, there are all kind of monas...

Some problems with Sikhs: 1) We live in the past. Do Pakistanis get all nostalgic and obsessive about Amritsar and Jalandhar? 2) We put being Punjabi ahead of being Sikh. Punjabi Muslims are Muslim first, Pakistani second, Punjabi third. Punjabi Hindus are Hindu first, Indian second, Punjabi third. Sikhs are Punjabi first.

Well said, and I hope Punjabi singers and actors end this obsession with Lahore too.

Not everything is 'grooming' and we all know apne make excuses for their own choices then the blame game however doesn't mean that its not an issue regardless if some apniya fell for it. The fact they target underage 8,9,10,11,12,year olds, drug them and r*pe them one by one like with the goriya is sick. If our community was going out their way and handing out leaflets to target 'Muslim girls how would they act. If we were dressing islamic ways to target them, find underage girls to religiously convert them. Its not right Also i know the mockery name calling for Singhs and those keeping Kes ...'Golf ball, ice cream, hairy'....

You've been watching too many Bourne films.

I think it is grooming in most cases. The reason I say this, is that the girls are deliberately targeted and treated in such a way that the Paks would not treat a fellow Muslim 'Sister' . How many females from Sikh families over the age of say, 30 , voluntarily get into relationship with a Pak - very few I would think. Young people (I will use my own experience of life here) can vary in how quickly they mature, dependent on their 'street intelligence' and whatever they have been exposed to in life. I know that compared to say 15 years ago when I was at Uni, I am a lot aware of my surroundings. If I was a female, I think I could have been groomed relatively easily. I think what helped me growing up and onwards about being wary of Paks is all the Sakhian of our Gurus and Puratan Gursikhs and what they had to face from Muslims. That would be part of a 'prevention' strategy to reduce girls being groomed- ensure they are well aware of Sikh-Muslim history etc I’m linking an old thread which talks about grooming and girls’ attitudes.

so true i remember reading this account from a uk sikh girl who converted to Islam and ran away to Pakistan with her muslim husband and then he sold her in some brothel and left here there. She asked for help from uk embassy and what not and after so much long battle she was able to get out of Pakistan and then she was crying about how sorry she was for turning against her own people and what not.

There is already a beginning being made. More and more villages need to pass these resolutions until the Gujjars are not able to stay in their deras in Punjab.

Dastaar Bandi of the Tarna Dal Jathedars. Prominent Singhs in the picture include: Jathedar Akali Baba Chet Singh Ji 96 Krori, Akali Baba Santa Singh Ji 96 Krori, Akali Baba Bishan Singh Ji Tarna Dal Sri Baba Bakala, Akali Baba Kehar Singh Ji Guru Nanak Dal Tarna Dal Marianvale, Akali Baba Bishan Singh Ji Tarna Dal Hadrianbela, Akali Baba Nihal Singh Ji and Akali Baba Phurmaan Singh Ji, and Meet Jathedar Akali Baba Kharak Singh Ji Budha Dal.

Did you follow this story? And..maybe...

I’ve seen Pal Kharod and his organisation on YouTube exposing this disgusting behaviour. There is simple solution to ridding Punjab from this Kanjar tribe without resorting to violent agitation against them. The Gujjars are in Punjab because they earn their living from selling Milk to Punjabi Sikh and Hindus. Stop buying Milk from the Gujjars and they will no longer reside in Punjab. They are nomadic people and will move on to the next sucker who buys their product. The same goes for Bihari Bhaye, they moved back to Bihar during Covid lockdown when manual labour was restricted. Completely boycott their services and watch them run from Punjab.

Watch this videos. There is a Singh called Pal Kharod who has been active with a small jathebandi of Singhs who raid Gujjar Deras and recue mentally challenged people who they have abducted and forced to work for them and kept them in slavish conditions. These Gujjars have also been accused of striking people normal people on the head so that they suffer brain injuries and they can then be kept as slaves to do manual labour for them. He also raids Gaushalas as well where there are people also kept like the Gujjars keep.

Are there any limits to this magnanimous policy of yours? Mia Khalifa tweets "Khalistan Zindabad" will have you recommending her for a siropa from the Akal Takhat? Lana Rhoades wears a dastaar and the clothes of a Gursikhni for an Instagram post on Baisakhi, and you'd be championing her bringing attention to Sikhi saroop?

I'm not saying I know better than Guru ji. I've posted elsewhere that according to Guru Gobind Singh ji, a Sikh's tree dries and withers if his son cuts his hair. The question is not whether Sikhs should cut their hair. The question is whether to be nasty to people who have cut their hair because they didn't know better. I see no point in being mean to them. Just be friendly and in a group situation you can explain Sikh way of worship, Sikh history, keertan, naam simran, and also rehit including kes.

how many institutions did we have when they were hunting our people in the forests , when Bota Singh ji and Garja Singh ji put a toll station on the GT road to delhi? it is rehit first then the rest will come if you signify you know better than Guru ji daily do you think Guru ji will have your back?

Yeah, while I think there are plenty of monas who are shardhaloo of Guru ji and are pro-Panth, marrying a Hindu woman is a different thing (unless she has agreed to raise the children not to be idol-worshippers). I believe that Valerie Kaur who has done some good work is married to a Madrasi. If you really believed in the Panth, why wouldn't you marry in it? (Again, moni marries mona, kesadhari marries kessadhari, Amritdhari Amritdhari.)

Yeah, one thing we have to face is the vast majority of people are manmukhs: ਹੈਨਿ ਵਿਰਲੇ ਨਾਹੀ ਘਣੇ ਫੈਲ ਫਕੜੁ ਸੰਸਾਰੁ ॥੧੨॥ The Saints are few and far between; everything else in the world is just a pompous show. ||12|| They are worshippers of maya, and therefore they blindly listen to whatever mayadharis tell them. To the extent possible, we can and should use mayadharis without being bitten by the snake of maya: ਮਾਇਆ ਹੋਈ ਨਾਗਨੀ ਜਗਤਿ ਰਹੀ ਲਪਟਾਇ ॥ Maya is a serpent, clinging to the world.

You talking about Mohammedans, bro? ਮਹਾਦੀਨ ਤਬਿ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਉਪਰਾਜਾ ॥ ਅਰਬ ਦੇਸ ਕੋ ਕੀਨੋ ਰਾਜਾ ॥੨੬॥ ਤਿਨ ਭੀ ਏਕੁ ਪੰਥੁ ਉਪਰਾਜਾ ॥ ਲਿੰਗ ਬਿਨਾ ਕੀਨੇ ਸਭ ਰਾਜਾ ॥ Bachittar Natak ਅ. ੬ - ੨੭/੨ - ਸ੍ਰੀ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ Then the Lord created Mahadeen (Mohammed). He made him King of Arabia. He also created a Panth. He made them all kings without peni ses.

Possibly an Udaasi Sant? Kinda looks like he has locs.

Yeah, the vast majority of men who are earning higher-end salaries are married and/or old

Apne don't know how it's done.

Men: It's women that choose Women: It's men that choose

How did you find the time in your schedule to post in this thread? I thought you had an appointment at the barber shop today.

I wonder if they've remained chaste during this arduous search for a male companion?

Definitely.

If they pulled another 84, its be the 'Sikhs' who kills Sikhs off first Despite all is happening to our panth, Sikhs will still sign for the I*dian Army and die for their borders

Sturgeon urges Raab to assist Scottish Sikh man allegedly tortured in India First minister raises ‘deep concerns’ about case of Jagtar Singh Johal, who has been imprisoned for four years awaiting trial Jagtar Singh Johal, centre, being escorted to a court in Punjab state in 2017. He is facing the death penalty after allegedly being tortured into confessing involvement in a terrorist conspiracy. Photograph: Shammi Mehra/AFP/Getty Images Libby Brooks Sun 22 Aug 2021 14.52 BST Nicola Sturgeon has written to the embattled foreign secretary, Dominic Raab, urging him to intervene in the case of a Scottish Sikh man who has been imprisoned in India for nearly four years awaiting trial, and is facing the death penalty after a confession allegedly extracted under torture. In Sturgeon’s first formal intervention on the case, seen exclusively by the Guardian, the first minister expresses the Scottish government’s “deep concerns” about Jagtar Singh Johal’s detention without trial – as well as his allegations of torture and mistreatment by Indian authorities while in custody. The letter adds further pressure on the UK government after nearly 140 parliamentarians, including the former Brexit secretary David Davis, the former international development secretary Hilary Benn and the SNP leader at Westminster, Ian Blackford, wrote to Raab in February asking him to seek Jagtar’s release. Jagtar is being supported by the legal NGO Reprieve, whose deputy director Harriet McCulloch described his situation as “as clear a case of arbitrary detention as we’ve come across”. She said that, despite numerous court appearances, his trial has been repeatedly delayed at the request of the prosecution, with basic information denied to his defence counsel. McCulloch said that Jagtar, a Sikh human rights activist from Dumbarton, was violently arrested in Punjab, northern India, in October 2017, after which he was tortured with electricity into confessing his involvement in an alleged terrorist conspiracy. It has been alleged he provided £3,000 to a Sikh who was planning to kill members of the extremist nationalist group Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS), a charge he denies. In the letter, Sturgeon urges Raab to personally meet Jagtar’s family after her own meeting with his brother Gurpreet Singh Johal this month. “Gurpreet expressed his disappointment with the support his brother and their family have received from the FCDO [Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office]. He also questioned why the British prime minister did not raise Jagtar’s case with the Indian prime minister in April this year.” Boris Johnson has endeavoured to cement economic ties with India as part of the UK government’s wider foreign policy strategy by holding online talks with its prime minister, Narenda Modi, in May and during the G7 summit in Cornwall in June. Gurpreet Singh Johal told the Guardian: “I am very grateful for the Scottish government’s support, but my brother really needs the Westminster government to seek his release and bring him home. “Our family is devastated that almost four years after he was abducted and tortured, the Foreign Office has still not fulfilled its promise to take ‘extreme action’ on his case. I hope the foreign secretary will meet with me and do everything in his power to save Jaggi’s life.” https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/aug/22/sturgeon-urges-raab-to-assist-scottish-sikh-man-allegedly-tortured-in-india

Many people say that we have 11 or 12 Gurus. After thinking about it, these are the different forms of Guru Sahib that I could remember: Guru Nanak Dev Ji Guru Angad Dev Ji Guru Amar Das Ji Guru Ram Das Ji Guru Arjan Dev Ji Guru Hargobind Sahib Ji Guru Har Rai Sahib Ji Guru Har Krishan Sahib Ji Guru Tegh Bahadur Sahib Ji Guru Gobind Singh Ji Guru Granth Sahib Ji Panj Pyare Guru Panth Khalsa If we look at the number it's 13, or Teraa (yours)!

I read a lot of stuff from a western psychological perspective. It's what makes me value and appreciate gurbani even more. Bani is so far ahead, modern science is trying to catch up.

Conventional Sikhi interprets to resolve Krodh you need more Sukh (at least how I have interpreted, I could be wrong). Which is why Sukhmani Sahib path is very popular amongst the Sangat. Krodh seems to be associated with turbulence and instability. But has anyone actually looked at the causes of Krodh and it's part in the human condition? It like a lot of the other 'chors ' has a function in the human psyche but it should not control you, it is something that needs to be tamed and mastered. In my personal experience the solution to Krodh is not Sukh. Sukh is the after-effect. It is actually dukh. A lot source of anger is pain.

According to Guru Nanak Ji to a peer, "Hell and Heaven is a state of mind. Not a Geographic location." SGGS states "Jamdoot come and beat up paapis/ Nirguras. Wine and fish eaters go to hell" etc. Also, hell is fire Heaven is freedom, joy, Sukhi saans. My opinions. Apparently, God is also known as "Upperwale" (Being up there). So if Heaven is up and hell is down (according to tradition) we need to think, what is up? Space, stars! No gravity. Sounds like all the good / religious folks do become stars after death! Of course not the case but what else is up? Now, lets focus on down... Core of the Earth, Heat! Lava! Hot n scary items. Interestingly we humans may die before getting towards the Earth's core and we cannot reach the nearest star in a single life... (Ok, we should forget about stars). Simply, my opinion is (taking into SGGS account) Hell is Core of the Earth and... IDK where Sachkhand is but must be obviously some place nice. So, core of the Earth is where all the paapi souls are imprisoned n tortured. According to Guru Nanak Ji live a life where you live life a true hermit. In God's will. By doing so the mind itself becomes like Heaven. Hell and Heaven is a state of mind. Heaven too is, sadly, a Maya (groan) the truest place is with God in His Darbaar.

What is up? What is down? These are both relative to a point and our perception. Can you tell me some of the shabads that say this ? This video has been recommended by @GurjantGnostic and it talks a bit about this: Maybe Heaven & Hell is not a geographical location but a different plane...

Heavan and Hell are real places in my opinion. Dasam Granth it mentions it as real places and so does SGGS Ji. Also Vadde Sant Sant Gian Gurbachn Singh Ji believes they are real place. So does every Sampardama and that is why I believe Heaven and Hell are real

Can you talk to Boris ..write to him get hold of him His ex wife has Sikh background ...

Again, what are you suggesting ?

what do you mean ?

it's not, try this one

Start a prachaar in college. Ask Head master for permission, get other educated sikhs for presentation.

OK, so a > 50cm sword (19in) would be disallowed. So can you walk around the UK with a kirpan (3ft) or not? Does anybody have a definitive answer on that? Does the guidance on 50cm swords countermand the guidance on kirpans given above?

No, they are allowed, generally. It's a separate matter that some employers (like 7/11) may advise their employees not to fight with robbers, and simply give them the money. But if you own the store, you can certainly defend your property, with weapons if desired, and that includes firearms.

In the US it is definitely allowed. Some corporations may have a policy against it, but legally speaking you can shoot, stab, bludgeon, beat or otherwise mayhem somebody if they try armed rob you like that, with basically whatever weapon you like. Thank God Harman Singh prevailed. He also chose not to kill the guy at the end. Good on him. Vaheguru, Vaheguru, Vaheguru

I think we need to renormalise physical training for Sikh blokes with an emphasis on both physical fitness and prowess. According to Giani Gian Singh this was a norm for all Sikhs (not only those in the army) up until the end of the Sikh kingdom. But all this has to come with psychological development too. People need to get streetwise. And I think the sisters above have highlighted a really important issue with self-fixation. Like you get a lot of 'metrosexual' type young brothers these days who are fit and strong but mentally and behaviourally they are quite well....how do I say it....effeminate. I don't agree with those meek guys being stronger by the way, they are the ones who sit out all altercations out of fear or selfishness. But on the other hand the loud mothed, drinking pendu 'bwaah bwaah' type mentality is not only problematic in that such people usually end up only fighting with other apnay, it's also embarrassing and cringe worthy to behold.

If this is true then we might as well give up. If tonday can walk in like that unchallenged and do that; I haven't even got the words for the Sikh 'men' that were present when it happened. This seems so outlandish that it must be bull? Or, we'll carry on like clowns and be saying the same thing in 10 years. This situation isn't going to change and could get much worse unless people start addressing it seriously. People have been highlighting this since the 80s. That makes it 30 years.

when will these kinds of topics end :wow:

All that from just one spiked drink? I assume it was Diet Coke too. I'm beginning to think some of us are going hyper on the white knighting in these situations. We are unwittingly absolving some of these girls who relish playing with fire of all responsibility when they get burnt. Not in all situations BTW.

The issues we have are a part of a wider problem in society. We as Sikhs are not immune, but I think there is a problem when a girl follows Kim Kardashian on instagram or twitter. There is a lack of good solid role models in contemporary society. The first set of role models should be your parents. Problem is children for whatever reason pick up the bad habits first. Kids are very receptive to kirtan and bani if it is taught in the right way. Gurdwarae have the facilities available but need to do more, new Sikh schools opening up are doing more. But it is noticeable by many Sikhs that as we move up the Maslow Hierarchy of Needs that more needs to be done. Society historically have always swung between extremes from being materialistic to spiritual, feast to famine. The Sikh way is the miri-piri way, it is to have the balance so that we remain unaffected as possible with these fickle duality/changes. That is where we need to be.

I find it astounding that these girls validate their behaviour based on the behaviour of a minority of boys. The majority of Sikh males are beta male mommy's boys. Where are these "Kauragious " women that are born to lead. Do they have the boldness of not following the herd of the other girls?