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Spent crores to take care of cows and look at the condition. Nothing gets done properly in India.

when will people in India realize that this centralization of power will never be good. None of the problems will be getting solved. The rich keep getting richer as they have the so called democratic govts in their pockets and once things go bad they flee to western countries while the common poor man continues to suffer. First world countries want third world countries to remain this way in order to maintain their hegemony. People need to wake up. This democracy is the biggest bs system of governance.

whats the point of doing bhangra at an environmental rally?

It goes insane, like people saying don't call Diwali, Diwali because it's 'Hindu' but then you read Guru Gobind Singh Ji's hukamnamas and they use the word Diwali. That's how twisted insular, uninformed, binary thinking gets you.

interesting, do tell more. There are probably sources such as suraj prakash and others to look at right? This really irks me. I used to be in London uni sikh societies in the 2000s and that's when they started corrupting Mai Bhago's name. And then in the last decade sikh groups started doing the same to Mata Gujari Ji. And it's always the groups dealing with youth and young children who push these. And I feel it's coming from certain jathas which don't follow itihasic granths!

I think it was probably incorporated and 'standardised' during the Singh Sabha Lehar like a lot of stuff we live with today. European influence.

I agree, and I'm also pretty sure most sullay there would lump all Sikhs with the Hindus too.

Then where did Kaur come from?

@proudkaur21 Its so hard to feel sympathetic for hindus man.... this murder was horrific but lust blood genocides they play victim when they get hit back

@Kau89r8 he thinks without religion the world will be peaceful and all fairy tales. i think he doesn't really know what humans are really like deep down inside

Were all Sikh women previously named Devan?

Health reasons probably. Daas only ever seen elders ask for “swayaa” which basically means ‘whoa that’s way too much, can you give me a little bit please’. Opposite of a young kid coming back to ask for more. How can anyone refuse their cute face ??

I had an older uncle who did this, he had diabetes, and the flour and sugar would send his blood sugar levels sky high. So he stop eating it - not out of choice though. That might be another reason? A lot of people avoid khandh these days.

Vaheguru ji ka khalsa Vaheguru ji ki fateh Bhenji, what you are feeling is common. Whenever we go through bad experiences in our life we are quick to doubt Vaheguru ji. But as Gurbani Says If the Chote Sahibzaade had thought " Is it worth it to give Shaheedi for the Panth?" Then the Khalsa Panth wouldn't remain. Bhenji are you amritdhari? Do you do your nitnem? If you're not amritdhari and do not do your nitnem, it's okay Guru Sahib will guide you towards that path soon. Meanwhile try to do mool mantar sahib. That's all you need for Vaheguru ji's kirpa. Do 1 mala a day. I can guarantee you will have your own experiences and your trust and love in Vaheguru Ji will be restored by Sache Patshah. All we need in our lives are Guru Sahib's blessing. Mool mantar is amazing and by doing it Vaheguru ji will have pity on his servants and bring us to his Path. Bhenji, you are a daughter of our Guru. Do not lose hope! Remain in patience and Sehaj. All will be good soon. No matter what you have gone through always remember the faces of our Shaheeds who embraced their death with smiles on their faces because they knew about this false world, they knew Guru Sahib Ji is Ang Sang. You may not realize it but Guru Sahib is always with his Khalsa. Even while you are reading this post, Guru Gobind Singh Sahib Jio Maharaj is right next to you! All you need to do is have Sehaj and keep trust. Once our illusion of Maya is gone, all we see is Prakash everywhere. Then we do not doubt on what is the point or whether it is worth it. We crave more Anand and long to be in the Charan of Sache Patshah. Do mool mantar, keep Simran in your heart 24/7. The rest Vaheguru ji Himself will guide you. Guru Sahib is right next to you waiting for you to realize his presence and get Darshan. Gurmukh Pyare always see Guru Sahib as Ang Sang. Have faith Bhenji, all will be good soon. Bhul Chuk Maf ji ? Vaheguru ji ka khalsa Vaheguru ji ki fateh!

I have not been to punjab in a few years but I have people back home who tell me everything. The cities of punjab are most likely a gone case at this point. Just deduct the population of city sikhs from our total population because majority of them will not be having sikh kids. Our biggest misfortune is that most of our rich people back home are our biggest backstabbers.

I'm not saying those sikhs should remain poor but just an observation that the only good sikhs are the ones who are not exactly rich unfortunately. It's just my own experience. None of the rich sikh girls from the city will be marrying sikh boys . I'm just telling the truth. From here what we do is upto us. For most of the rich money is their religion. 99% of the people will give up their morals once they have money. If I tell you the kind of things these city sikh girls do you will be in shock.My cousin back home told me this one rich doctor's daughter got so drunk at some party she removed her clothes and her dad was called and he cut off her hair in anger. This is how 90% of them behave. And it's not even some western country. It's back home in Punjab in the cities.

You do realise it's over, don't you? There's no coming back from this. It will get worse, not better. With all due respect to the Sikhs (or potential Sikhs) from extremely humble backgrounds, that's that classic pandering to so-called humility and poverty that doesn't elevate a quom but decelerates its progress, and in some cases reverses it. Strength in numbers is all well and good, but have a look at how the "numbers" conduct themselves on a day-to-day basis. Again, stop with the Hollywoodisation of reality.

I think what a sikh women is called should be the last of our worries when our whole future is at stake.

I heard from katha that kurri actually comes from the word koora, ie that it is a derogatory word for women. I wonder how much punjabi has changed with neo-gurmukhi introducing pehr bindi letters using z, p and sh

Damaging cultural anti-Sikh practices such as foeticide, dowry, and casteism need to be eliminated. Don't destroy the colourful aspects of our collective character. I don't personally like dancing or any of that crap myself, but as you get older and you look at culture as a subject that informs a unique group's identity, you cannot, or at least shouldn't, eradicate harmless "rang-brang" under the auspices of religious autocracy. The problem arrives when things are indulged in to excess, and that's a problem for Sikhs, because we are prone to extremes. It's a flaw in our character. I don't like this Sharia-esque mentality of khattar Sikhs. I'm one myself in certain respects but I know when to pull back and see the bigger picture. Unfortunately, the low-IQ hot-heads are unknowingly sowing the seeds for rebellion against their cause before they've even laid the first brick of the foundations of their movement. If you can't trace the evolution and subsequent stages of a scenario where this type of censorship will be rallied against by your own people who don't share your religious devotion, then you don't deserve what you're aiming for. Open a history book. History is littered with such examples. Wake up and focus on REAL problems facing Sikhs; that require intelligence and tenacity to tackle, not superfluous, easy side issues that don't matter.

Khalsa Ji, With regards to Bhai Gurdas ji’s vaaran, about Waheguru Gurmantar. I feel that this video is misinterpreting the Vaar. My understanding is that ਵ is from Vasudev. ਹ is from Hari. ਗ is from Gobind. ਰ is from Ram. All,of these names of Akal Purakh were used. The word Waheguru has nothing to do with deities. If in doubt, read the chapter from the history of 6th Patshahi, where Bhai Gurdas Ji explained the meaning of Waheguru to the seven hundred intellectual Pandits of Kanchi. The Pandits of Kanchi became Sikhs of 6th Patshahi, after hearing the katha. Waheguru...

Sikhi is not a science. You can not compare the two. Sikhi is to create a relationship with Waheguru. Sikhi is about faith, emotion, the unseen, you can therefore not really have scientific explanation for Sikhi. Guru ji has clearly told us not to have sex outside of marriage, The only person you are supposed to have a physical relationship with is your wife and no one else. If you have sex outside of marriage then you will face the consequences hereafter, gurbani tells us of the suffering one faces. Guru ji tells us that apart from our wife all other females are our sisters. Read bhai rama's autobiography, he had a out of body experience and was taken to hell by jamdoots where he was tortured for having sex before marriage. Listen from 0:52 He explains what Guru Tegh Bahadur ji said to Guru Gobind Singh ji

@mahandulai You should post on sikhi Reddit, you will get more learned answers!

Yay another meat debate ? fml

bhai gurdas jis varan The butcher slaughters the goat; salts the meat and strings it on a skewer. While being killed the goat laughingly says: I have come to this condition for grazing only coarse leaves of arid wild plants. What will be the plight of those who cutting the throat with a knife eat the flesh of animals? The perverted taste of the tongue is harmful for the teeth and damages the mouth. The one who eyes another’s wealth or body or slanders becomes a poisonous Amphisbaena. This snake is controlled by the Guru's mantra but the Guru-less manmukh never listens to this glorious mantra. The Manmukh blindly moves ahead, never realizing the approaching deep pit ahead! (note: Amphisbaena is a mythical serpent having a head at each end of its body.) Vaar 37 Pauri 21 Lion catches a goat; As the goat is dying, it begins to laugh. In awe the lion asks, why are you laughing? Humbly the goat says: Our sons are destroyed (castrated). We only eat wild plants and suffer being slayed & skinned alive. Those who cut our throats and eat our flesh, what will be their plight? Proud and arrogant their bodies are a waste; inedible and fruitless. All who come to the world will eventually die. Vaar 25 Pauri 17

Meat is nasty anyway, your basically eating something which pissed, shitted, had sex, carried lice, had illnesses and was a living walking thing

then why does Guru Granth Sahib ji tell us not to eat meat? O human being, whatever you can see with your eyes, shall perish. The world eats dead carcasses, living by neglect and greed. ((Pause)) Like a goblin, or a beast, they kill and eat the forbidden carcasses of meat. So control your urges, or else you will be seized by the Lord, and thrown into the tortures of hell In this Dark Age of Kali Yuga, people have faces like dogs; they eat rotting carcasses for food. They bark and speak, telling only lies; all thought of righteousness has left them.

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and your point is what ? we all know singhs ate meat back then and sikhi respects that fact , it also respects personal choice and freedoms to choose our paths. Eat chatka if it makes you feel happy ,don't if it makes you happy - food is not going to save anyone it's only Gurbani, sewa, simran and Guru Kirpa. All those chatka eating guys ...how are they justifying their hands-off approach to Shillong, Sikhligars, Rajasthan , Madhya Pradesh, Gujarat and all the places where raksha is needed of our sikh bretheren? I thought all this meat eating was to build them up for battle ...so?

While Chandi Di Vaar is an extremely potent Bir Ras Bani it's also a bani to help with another type of war. The internal war that we all face. Notice how the names of the demons all allude to things Guru Sahib warns us about. For example. Mahikasur (the first demon Durga slays) is also a figurative of sexual desire. His name can be roughly alluded to that, Sumbh (Pride) and Nisumbh (anger) are both other emotions we're meant to destroy. Now this is where the name of Rakatbheej is also changed to Sronatbheej, The latter translates to gossip or all hearing. However this isn't unique to this bani, they are the same demon since Guru Sahib in Chandi Charitar also changes the name back and forth. The Gods (representing good people or goodness) at the start of the Ballad are filled with ego, so to destroy that ego God sent these demons (the vices). The Vices humbled the person, destroyed everything they built in heaven and took over. Reduced to nothing they sought the refuge of Durga (think of her a manifestation of power), She then goes off and faces the demons. She destroys them the same way we are to destroy the vices. Then along comes Sronatbheej, He's extremely powerful and also different than the other vices because he multiples. This vice (of gossip) isn't anything we can destroy in ourselves, because like his clones its an external foe. Durga in a fit of rage and anger envisions Kalika (she represents knowledge here), She bursts out of her forehead and starts to face the demons. In the battle Durga has the forces of the Devtas (good people) as well but she also brings her Yognis (some say these are witches but from what I was taught they are also over 50 goddesses who are handmaidens of Durga, basically her vanguard). They start drinking the blood along with Kali and Durga starts the normal process of destroying the demons with her blades. This is an analogy on how we should be dealing with gossip, rather than letting it grow and mature into something we cant contend, destroy them at their roots. The demons flee after Durga and Kalika overwhelm them and then along comes the next sin in the form of Nisumbh (anger). He gets obliterated and then comes Sumbh (Pride), he also faces his demise at Durga's hands. There's a nice poetic linakage to how the demons die too. First to fall is Mahikasur (sexual desire). For humans this is the root of most if not all problems (Kaam in some instances can also mean desires), Maskeen Ji did an amazing Katha on this very topic. After his demise things were calm and collect for a while but 2 more demons rose. Anger and Pride. Anger and Pride go hand in hand, if you hurt someones pride then the chances are they will come for you in a fit of rage, we sadly see it in Punjabi Culture a-lot. Anger and Pride had 4 sub-demons. Dhoomar Lochan, Chand and Mund, Sronatbheej. Dhoomar Lochan (cloudy vision) is the first to fall. Let's ponder why. To en-better ourselves we need to be able to see clearly, if we see things half way its extremely dangerous. For example, fog is extremely dangerous, remove the fog and vola things are so much better. Chand and Mund are the next to come. They represent Greed and Attachment, Both go hand in hand. If we get greedy, we'll naturally get attached to the items we lust after. Now that Dhoomar Lochan is dead and we can see clearly we face the vice of Greed and desires. Durga obliterates them too. Now comes SronatBheej. ohoho he's the big bad daddy in the whole thing. All the other demons are internal foes, while this bugger is an external and an internal one. See above how he was killed. Now that we've dealt with sexual desire (important to add that Mahikasur was lusting after Durga as she was incredibly beautiful), Cloudy thought, Greed and attachment. Now comes the biggest sins of anger and pride. I don't need to really tell anyone on here as Guru Granth Sahib Ji tells us just how destructive these vices are. They are the root of almost all evil deeds. Guru Nanak Dev Ji in Sidh Gost even wrote "ਹਉ ਹਉ ਮੈ ਮੈ ਵਿਚਹੁ ਖੋਵੈ ॥ ਦੂਜਾ ਮੇਟੈ ਏਕੋ ਹੋਵੈ ॥ " So they eventually fall to Durga's power. The end of the bani Guru Gobind Singh Ji writes "ਦੁਰਗਾ ਪਾਠ ਬਣਾਇਆ ਸਭੇ ਪਉੜੀਆਂ ॥ ਫੇਰ ਨ ਜੂਨੀ ਆਇਆ ਜਿਨ ਇਹ ਗਾਇਆ ॥੫੫॥ " If we observe the bani in a metaphorical sense AS well as a physical sense that line also shines. Any person who obliterates these vices the same way Durga destroys these demons, no way will they be reborn. As they become immaculate and a form of the Timeless Lord himself. The bani is also an amazing Journey for new beginners (the writing and understanding is so simple), a guide on how to enbetter ourselves internally as well waging war against Tyrants.

Not read all the thread as it is too long but I personally believe anyone can ask any question of Sikhi, the whole point of being a disciple or student is to constantly learn and strive to learn

Interesting that now since Niddar has been exposed as an rss affiliate you no longer are trying to promote his self invented SV. But still stubbornly bad mouth Gatka not realising Gatka is a broad term with many shades. Gatka can be hardcore like what the authentic Nihangs in Buddha Dal in India practice who can without a doubt decapitate any of their western Gatka critics while this broad term is also sadly used by show men types like Bir Khalsa.As for the unarmed martial arts. Khalsa of old were never Shastar-heen. Shastars were always adorned by the Khalsa. But if by chance a Singh was unarmed that is why Guru Sahib wanted his Sikhs to learn a grappling martial art like Indian kushti. And to learn this amazing grappling art puratan Singhs did the exercises of Pehlvaans which made a single Singh so physically strong that he could take on multiple opponents. Baba Deep Singh jee was also a wrestler which is why he was so physically strong. I can imagine him practicing and swinging around on his heavy wooden moonglis which would explain how a man in his 80s was able to swing his heavy khanda and kill a whole lot of Pathans. Sorry, none of those kung fu moves of Niddar worked back then.

None of these were written during Guru Period to justify this manmat. Suraj Parkash and Panth Parkash were both written during period of M Ranjit Singh. The authors project the contemporary behavior and customs like Bhang consumption to puratan times. I would be very surprised to find a contemporary account of the Gurus saying they consumed Bhang or any other Nasha.

I hope not. If one has to utilise stimulants to connect with God, there's no hope for the rest of us. I can appreciate its medicinal advantages, but the spiritual aspect of it seems like a stretch.

Originally Guru Sahib jee wanted his Sikhs to be physically strong. So Guru Jee created wrestling akharas for Sikhs where they would do tough exercises of pehlvaans like Dands, Baithaks, swinging moonglis and gurj that pehlvaans of olden times performed which had similar swing like movements to Gatka. These exercises made puratan Sikhs extremely strong. And to aid in their physical strength training these Sikhs would also drink a lot of Shardayee which is a very healthy desi milk drink. Then after the Gurus period, wars became more frequent. One battle had just finished then another would start not giving enough time to let the wounds from the previous battles to heal. Warriors began taking medicines to aid in the healing of their wounds. Among them was bhang which served as a pain killer like morphine does today. The frequency of taking this pain killer resulted in some to become addicts also known as Amlis in Punjabi who could not leave this new addiction. These Amlis then needed to justify their addiction since war was the only real justification, so they came up with the number 5 since 5 has a special place in the Sikh Panth with many things being five in number. Eventually the Amlis had turned this 5 bhang leafs into a "puratan" tradition, and to make it healthy they mixed those Bhang leafs in Shardayee that Sikhs were taking since the times of the Gurus giving it a further puratan touch.

By any stretch of the imagination that is a massive generalisation. Like ms514 I also studied a Life Science Degree, a half unit was the fascinating world of Toxins. A famous quote from Paracelsus applies to toxins as well as drugs '"All things are poison and nothing is without poison; only the dose makes a thing not a poison." This is often condensed to: "The dose makes the poison" or in Latin "Sola dosis facit venenum". So anything ingested in the right quantity can be a poison or harmful. Those who abuse cannabis are not looked upon favourably and there are videos by Nihangs that denounce their behaviour, including the one I posted earlier. From a demographical point of view I cannot say how many are nashaee.

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH Some facts: A) Timestamp on this website is local to your timezone. Local time, per time stamp, was 8:14 PM. B) I am a pharmacist. As others in the medical profession will tell you, many of the medications being taken today are based on plants. Morphine and its many derivative compounds used as medication is derived from opium. Vinca alkaloids are derived from plants and are the basis of some powerful chemotherapy agents. Gila monster saliva is used to make a diabetes medication. Digoxin is derived from a very beautiful landscaping plant. Aspirin - tree bark and so on. This subject is of interest to many medical professionals, who know there are patients who are refractory to pharmacy available medicines and are taking cannabis compounds to treat their ailments with success. Rather than dismiss it, every medical professional has to keep his/her mind open to the treatment modalities which are effective and of benefit to patients. C) There are many patients that are able to get relief from cannabis use that have failed almost every other option and a wide variety of diseases, from pain, to glaucoma, inflammatory conditions, anxiety and others have been successfully treated despite being refractory to treatment with traditional Western medications. If anything, the side effect and lethality profile of cannabis compunds are very favorable to pharmacy available medications. D) CBD is a compound found in cannabis that is not addiction promoting (rather, it seems to counter the effects of THC - the compound that makes you high) and seems to have a multitude of benefits that are of medicinal nature benefit without the high. This chemical seems to have vast potential for medicinal use. E) Other medications - Marinol and Sativex - are established medications based on cannabis. E) The body has cannabis receptors. Compounds that work on cannabis receptors are also found in breastmilk of mothers. F) Poppy seeds, commonly used in Eastern cooking, has traces of opium on it, but its benefits are large and the traces of opium are not significant enough to consider it an intoxicant. Given all of the above, and given that Nihung Singhs also have vaids and hakeems amongst their midst practicing traditional Indian medicine and their practice of consumming cannabis, it is not a large stretch of the imagination to inquire whether there was a medicinal purpose to its use outside of pain control. Was there a more holistic effect that was desirable from the CBD dominant and THC minimal varieties of cannabis that were a rationale to using cannabis.

LOL Jagsaw I have to say that story is hilarious ? Ive heard a few stories of people having bad experiences on that stuff. Nihangs today have zero reason to get high or cut off defensless goats heads. They say they are keeping centuries old tradition alive by doing so, but how come they only keep these easy traditions going, what about the tradition of actually fighting for justice? Another hilarious excuse they give is that cutting off a goats head is somehow training them for war, as if the two are similiar in any way shape or form.

Everything is a conspiracy, right? Also, after looking at the time the OP posted, what if the world doesn't revolve around you and he is actually from another time zone? Anyways, on topic, when I went to Punjab i saw a Nihang Singh in Bathinda with a katar. Mama ji and I stopped him and we talked and he was happy that there are Sikhs abroad so he invited us to his house. He offered us some ragra but my mama ji and I declined, I had no idea what was offered until my mama ji told me outside haha. They actually do it, but I think most do it as a nasha now instead of medicinal purposes. If you hear stories in pinds of our grand and great grandparents - you'll hear there were desi medicine makers who made dwaiyaan out of plants similarly to how a lot of medicine is made here in the west (but not nearly as advanced obviously). I worked in the ER for a small time last year and I asked one of the doctors about those who prescribe marijuana to patients and whether or not he thought it was a legitimate medicine, but his reply is that no 'real' doctor actually prescribes marijuana. With that said there are a lot of research that changes very fast in the medical field so just one doctor isn't enough of a source - especially when the question was asked in a casual manner. Interesting katha

The strains of cannabis people who typically smoke get, are often selected or specially bred for their high THC content (i.e. skunk). What's been happening over the last few decades is that growers have been trying to create the highest buzz (because it obviously sells well), so they obviously seek to increase the THC levels in various ways. So this commercial stuff is already quite different from what we might find in nature. Plus factor in that sometimes growers may cross-breed two different strains that would probably have never met in real life (i.e. a plant from India with a plant from Africa), to create a new strain. This type of weed is made up of the plant buds (not leaves) and is often grown using artificial light (indoors) which increases THC levels. Apparently natural light (as opposed to artificial) increases CBD content. Plus the leaves have a higher CBD-THC ratio than the buds. Personally, I think Singhs of old may have taken this kind of stuff to help combat PTSD or other psychological conditions that arose from the relentless warfare and violence they were surrounded with. I think people had different attitudes towards natural pharmacopoeia (including afeem) back then. I don't think it was used recreationally like today.

Jesus blessed Guru Gobind Singh Jee? Insects like Jesus do not have the aukaat to bless Dashmesh pita.Its the other way around. Dashmesh pita created and destroyed countless insects like jesus.

again har har jan dohe ik hai bib bicchar kacch nahi....to Know Akal Purakh is to be Him ...the corruptions that came after their lives are not because of their actions wholly otherwise they would be in lakh chaurasi as has been told to us by Guru Har Gobind ji instead of being seen by numerous brahmgianis (same with Mohammed ) that is also why we are told not to criticise the founders

Sikh is always a learner. So no matter where you are in the ladder, always try to improve your Sikhi lifestyle. If one is a monah, it does not mean he should not do Paath. He should do Paath in fact I would say Nitnem and should refrain from eating meat or drinking alcohol(trust me these rehits may seem difficult but they are easy). Sikhi is all about improving yourself. Take it step by step. Myself, my whole family were Monay at one time but thanks to Guru Jee's apaar kirpa, we have all become Amritdharis. For us what got us into Sikhi was to always remember 1984 and listening to the words of Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale(both his political speeches and spiritual Kathas). Always do Ardas. Remember Sikhi itself is a gift from Guru Jee. When doing ardas ask for "Sikhi Daan, Rehit Daan" with full concentration and Guru Jee will give you these priceless spiritual gifts. It is no coincident that you are a Sikh. You have done great karmas in your previous lifetimes that you are now blessed with Sikhi in this lifetime. Now what you do in this lifetime will determine what will happen to you in future. You can waste it like the 7 billion people world wide who just marry, have kids, work from 9-5 or you can make something out of it by living in Grahisti jeevan and becoming a Hukami Sikh. Spend your lifetime in doing Paath, Simran, seva of the Panth. There is no better way to spend this manukhi jeevan our goal in this lifetime should be to have the divine Darshan of Vaheguru without which we cannot escape this endless cycle of life and death.

Everyone has the right to ask questions. Keeping Kesh does not make you holy, KPS Gill has kept kesh but has killed thousands of Sikhs while Navtej Singh Guggu a Mona Panth Dardi punished Ajit Poohla for his crimes against Sikh Nation. When Dera clashes happened in Punjab or riots in the UK it was (pendu) moneh who stood up for Sikhi (along with Amrtidharis). It is not right to shun them. SIkh Panth honoured Sehajdhari Sikh Bhai Kaura Mal who saved many Sikh lives in the 18th century & they are an integral part of Sikh community (they should however seek to become Amritdhari one day).

Yes but ther should like be a day that they can ask . Like only on tuesdays. . . This wil make the spirit strong and the mind .

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ ਨ੍ਰਿਬਿਕਾਰ ਨ੍ਰਿਲੰਭ ॥ ਆਦਿ ਅਨੀਲ ਅਨਾਦਿ ਅਸੰਭ ॥ निरंकार न्रिबिकार न्रिल्मभ ॥ आदि अनील अनादि अस्मभ ॥ The Lord is Formless, Sinless and shelterless: He is the Primal Power, Blemishlless, Behinningless and Unborn; ਤਾਕਾ ਮੂੜ੍ਹ ਉਚਾਰਤ ਭੇਦਾ ॥ ਜਾਕੋ ਭੇਵ ਨ ਪਾਵਤ ਬੇਦਾ ॥੩੯੧॥ ताका मूड़्ह उचारत भेदा ॥ जाको भेव न पावत बेदा ॥३९१॥ The fool claims boastfully about the knowledge of His secrets, which even the Vedas do not know.391. ਤਾਕੌ ਕਰਿ ਪਾਹਨ ਅਨੁਮਾਨਤ ॥ ਮਹਾਂ ਮੂੜ੍ਹ ਕਛੁ ਭੇਦ ਨ ਜਾਨਤ ॥ ताकौ करि पाहन अनुमानत ॥ महां मूड़्ह कछु भेद न जानत ॥ The fool considers Him a stone, but the great fool does not know any secret; ਮਹਾਂਦੇਵ ਕੌ ਕਹਤ ਸਦਾ ਸ਼ਿਵ ॥ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ ਕਾ ਚੀਨਤ ਨਹਿ ਭਿਵ ॥੩੯੨॥ महांदेव कौ कहत सदा शिव ॥ निरंकार का चीनत नहि भिव ॥३९२॥ He calls Shiva "The Eternal Lord, "but he does not know the secret of the Formless Lord.392. ਆਪੁ ਆਪੁਨੀ ਬੁਧਿ ਹੈ ਜੇਤੀ ॥ ਬਰਨਤ ਭਿੰਨ ਭਿੰਨ ਤੁਹਿ ਤੇਤੀ ॥ आपु आपुनी बुधि है जेती ॥ बरनत भिंन भिंन तुहि तेती ॥ According to one;s won intellect, one describes Thee differently; ਤੁਮਰਾ ਲਖਾ ਨ ਜਾਇ ਪਸਾਰਾ ॥ ਕਿਹ ਬਿਧਿ ਸਜਾ ਪ੍ਰਥਮ ਸੰਸਾਰਾ ॥੩੯੩॥ तुमरा लखा न जाइ पसारा ॥ किह बिधि सजा प्रथम संसारा ॥३९३॥ The limits of Thy creation cannot be known and how the world was fashioned in the beginning?393. (www.sridasam.org) Hindi provided for your friend. The message from the verses states that many claim to know God - through claims of Vedic knowledge, through worshipping stones, through considering the One Almighty to be Mahadev (that devta who is also called Shiva). This passage describes how people who claim to know the Almighty are all subjecting the Almighty to their limited intrepretations, but in reality, the Almighty is much greater than their human intellect and knowledge. Then, you have Ganjnama by Bhai Nand Lal Sahib, which is in praise of Guru Gobind Singh Ji, that nails the coffin shut. While praising Guru Sahib, Bhai Nand Lal Ji writes: SAD HAZAARAAN SULS-O SUDS KHIDMAT GUZEEN V SAD HAZAARAAN RUBEH-O TISYA KHAAK NASHIN Lacs of gods and shastras have chosen to serve him (Guru Gobind Singh Ji); lacs of Vedas and heavens are under his command. SAD HAZAARAAN ASHR-O SULS-O SULSOON SITA-INDEH-E BARGAAHASH SAD HAZAARAAN EESHAR-O BRAHMAA V ARSH-O KURSI KHAHIND-EH-E PANAAHASH Lacs of gods and angels praise the splendor of his (Guru Gobind Singh Ji) palace; lacs of gods like ***Shiv*** and Brahama are wishing to be near his throne for protection. http://zafarnama.com/Download/ganjnama.pdf So no, Guru Sahib did not worship Shiva - it was the other way around. Same for Chandi/Durga. Those who claim that Guru Sahib worshipped Chandi to make the Khalsa should do well to remember that the same Durga was the red clothed woman who used to sweep Guru Nanak's Dharamshala and collect the Charan Dhoor of the Sadh Sangat and used that to bestow blessings upon those who worshipped her.

Well firstly it may not be a good idea to take them literally. It could well be that they are a metaphoric work about good versus evil. Plus they are old Hindu mythological stories. In teh Dasam Granth it is Chandi Ki // that is in actual Panjabi whilst the other variants are in Braj (I think). I read somewhere else in Bachitar Natak about a battle that could be heard "in all nine continents", now I don't believe that Guru Ji was talking literally when he said this but using poetic license to make a point. I don't think he meant that the battle (in the Panjab) was so loud that it could actually be heard in Europe, America etc. etc. which would be a literal interpretation.

But the chand aint a khanda coz the crescent bit dont mean miri and piri - can someone please explain what this means - I know deep singh Ji has but Im stupid and still dont get it :wub: :wub:

They say a lot of stuff, i was told the same before I was told by someone that - is ment to be the REAL Khanda :T: (the hindu Fork looking thingy which idols have) It's all <admin-profanity filter activated> made up by them - like everything else Chand looks WICKEEEEEEED :wub: bhull chukk maaf Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!