MentalSingh

Sikhpaji you seem to have a wild imagination. Not sure how you worked out I am part of the opposition party at the Gurdwara from my previous update but you seem to have an in-depth understanding of what's happening there. Before making such statements and naming people in public forums you should get proof. If someone has taken that much money let the polie to their investigations and get to the truth. If they do not charge anyone you should be careful what you say. Your update only highlights the major problems that are occurring at this Gurdwara. Don't take this away from the beadbi that is taking place at the gurwara. If you are in charge now then you re responsible so deal with it instead Of making excuses. Don't try and big yourself up on a public forum and talk the talk. If you can't be an adult then go and join another forum.

Don't think anyone is dissing the website but are stating the hypocrisy it shows on the committees behalf. It is sending a mixed message to the sangat and portrays a rosey picture while underneath there are many acts of beadbi taking place.

Mr Jarnail Singh Khalsa, you seem to be part of the gurdwara committee or are in someway closely linked to the management committe. You should be using your influence to stop meat and sharab being consumed on the gurdwara's property. If there are a number of uses for the hall then there is no need for the parties etc to take place there, even if the gurdwara has to pay extra to cover the costs its worth it. Primary aim for gurdwara is not to make money, breaking even is fine, making some savings is better but gurdwaras profits/rewards are based on how many people it has helped to make amritari, changed people lives for the better and education rather than whats in the bank. This is not rocket science, such a simple step to make.

This needs to be kept in the forefront of everyones minds and should left alone. If this Gurdwara can change then we cahokia be able to make the remainder change a lot more easily.

Is there any update on the progress of talk/negotiations with the RST committee? Cannot believe that it is taking so long for this issue to be resolved.

Once again the committee are hiding behind the law of the land to protect there interests. Instead of discussing with their fellow brothers about the issues. I wouldnt be surprised at the meeting if they had a lawyer and police office present. The law here does not understand our Gurdwara are ultimately run by the akaal takht and we should be following their rules. Like the Vatican rules are applied to all catholic churches so they should abide by them.

Refering back Bir_Ras ji's financial breakdown, the gurdwara receives a large amount of money from hiring out the car park on a daily basis to the people who work in near vicinity. With the gurdwara being located in the Birmingham City Centre this generates a large amount of money over 150k per year. They do not have any financial problems in this gurughar, if the sangat do not come they dont care cos the car park revenues easily cover the costs of running the gurdwara. Also all the buildings are freehold so overall it is in a very healthy financial position.

Can anyone explain why the Sikh Channel are actually recording the programme from the Jassa Singh Hall? why not use the langar hall in the gurdwara?

I did not get to watch Panth Time, will it be repeated? :cool: 5 mins of fame or what. I am glad that i have struck a nerve with Mr Bhogal et posse and i hope he reads the other comments made in this discussion and starts to realise the mistakes they are making. Most likely they will just hide under the cast umbrella use it to deflect critiscm. Also, i know for a fact that Mr Bhogal et crew provide meat and alcoholic refreshments at their group meetings to ensure the communities muppets vote for them. Mr Bhogal stop being a hypocrite and show us you want the best for Sikhi and our community and are willing stand up against the committee's wrong doings and make a stand and we will stand with you. Are you a Mouse or a Lion of the Khalsa ????

Excellent Reply above by Gura Singh, lets not forget what this topic is about. The Gurdwara just needs to comeback inline with the Sikh Maryada by stopping meat & sharab etc in their hall. Its pretty simple to be honest. The focus will then turn to the other gurdwara who are breaking the rules. It would be ideal if the committee did this off their own back rather than making the UK Sangat come down in force and make them do it. It seems like the gurdwara is run by selfish people who have nothing better to do but sit in the cosy office at the gurdwara and devise crazy plans and play with the sangats money. Wake up and think about the cancer you are spreading in the community. You will have to pay and answer maharaj ji on your deathbeds about the beadbi you are allowing to take place in his gurukar.

He and all the members of the committee have the perfect chance to redeem themselves and give a strong message to the UK Sangat that they are prepared to change and are committed in building a better future for the sangat that attend the gurdwara.

Both the President – Mr Jasvinder Singh Sagoo & General Secretary – Mr Gurcharan Singh Bahra are alcoholics and eat meat, as is 95% of the existing committee and trustees so you can understand their reluctance to resolve this issue. This is probably the root of the problem in the gurdwara. When the gurdwaras leaders are setting this example, how can you preach sikhi to your sangat. Also there has been alot of unfair elections taking place at this gurdwara in the past 5-6 years and the existing committee have a strong stranglehold on the gurdwara. Deviously they have broken up the community so no one can make a stand against them as they will only make false allegations and discredit them from the stage at the gurdwara. It’s sad, but as we live in the 'Star plus' drama generation and people love to gossip and spread malicious rumours about each other so people just stand down and walk way scared of the backlash. The hall does have its good uses e.g. sports, general fitness and community projects etc but there is no place for alcohol and meat being served on the gurdwara property and the gurdwara making money in this way.

SinghWarrior I totally agree with you. This is not a caste issue it's about promoting the correct Maryada thoughout all the UKs and (worlds) Gurdwara.

When I started this topic I just wanted to get a consensus of how many people supported the queue system. The only places I can think where is langar is served in the traditional manner is- Guru Nanak Nishkam Jatha Ramgarhia Sikh Temple - Graham st Any others anyone know of ? I dont think people will switch back now. A generation has been brought up on the queue system and they do not know any better.

what i was referring to was what will people think of next to make 'improvements' to the current system. It has already changed from serving to queueing, what will it change to in the next 10-20 years. You are looking at the short term, instead of thinking about the next generation and what legacy and Sikhi we leave them with.

When i started this topic i wanted to know what sangat thought of the queue system and it seems to be favourable towards having queue systems. Seems like we are finding shortcuts in every aspect of Sikhi now and are losing our humility and hard working mentality going forward. Back in the day when we used to serve langar, 10 people used to serve langar and we used to complain that not enough sewadars come and people have to wait. Now we are using a queue system with 4-5 sewadars and have increased the waiting time and still complain about not having enough sewadars. What will be next and were do we stop ? will we be giving doggy bags to everyone or have a system were you take a number and we will have your food ready soon like at Maccies ?? when will the efficiencies stop ?? its becoming a business, no patience, no love, no role models.... What concerns me is that shortcuts are being applied everywhere, in our gurbani, sewa etc and are losing the methods and procedures that have been running for hundreds of years so they suite our modern day convienences.

this is an excellent result for all your hard work. hope your work will continue around the other gurdwara in the UK were such beadbi is taking place.

Whitehorse, when relatives come to your house do you a) serve them b) do you make them stand in a line? If it's a), then why are you making Gods guests standinline at his house? If it's b) then you are truly lost Western Gurdwara started using the queue system in the 90's before this all served langar because people had a lot more humility and love for on another.

If you are not humble enough to understand the differences of queuing like beggars and actually getting out there and serving then it is pointless reasoning with you. You are not humble enough. That's is the problem with most Sikhs.

I think people are failing to understand that if we do not do the basics correctly then how are we going to tackle the bigger issues. We need to spend time getting the basics correct and then build on the solid foundations again which have been lost. It's about getting the little things right.

Pics above describe my point. The principle is distributing langar rather than making people come to you asking for food. There is a major difference.

apologies if i have offended anyone by my comments.

Whitehorse, you are living a cuckoo land. Have you ever been to Harminder Sahib and seen how many thousands of people are served langar on a daily basis traditionally ? it runs smoothly because people go out their way to help and serve langar. Yes they serve a simple langar, then why dont we serve langar in a more simple format ???? the principles of langar are not their to stuff yourself silly and make one more dish than the oher person so you can brag to your relatives etc. Its about sitting on a level with all people of different creeds etc. Its people like you who would do work for the gurdwara and leave them with an Invoice for payment. You have no understanding of what our underlying principles are which are getting lost in.

I am glad to see someone to understands true SEWA, thanks Bundha. waiting in a queue is not efficient or practible. Do you like seeing older people waiting in a queue for ages then struggling to carry their trays full of food and a walking stick to find somewhere to sit ????? Its not the right to treat your sangat in this way. Sangat needs to get back to basics!!!

it is a common place now to find queue systems in gurdwara to get langar. the concept of Sewa seems to be dilluted and washed away and has resulted in a generation who do not understand sewa. people do not want to do any work and take the easy option of setting up queue systems thinking that they are practical and efficient. In my opinion the queues tend to be going against the core principles of sewa. We are standing there waiting for people to come to us for langar when it should be the other way round. Would you make people queue up when they come to your house and you are serving them food ? Would you make any of our Guru Ji's wait in line to serve them langar ? No you wouldnt. SO WHY do you make his people stand inline cos you are too lazy to serve food with your heart and humbleness to all no matter who they are. I find the this really fustrating as this is an important part of our religion and in most gurdwara we have lost the basic principles of sewa.