apne

Well I think it's due to SS Bhindranwale being a true image of the Guru Khalsa Panth, the poster is not saying he is Guru,but I can see why he is said maharaj and so on, as SS Bhindranwale was a true image of the Guru's Sikh like no other,not Guru or Maharaj but a true SaintSoldier of the Panth ,not one flaw in him as I see it yh well i agree but i dunno bout tat title but still if he has that love and respect in his heart fot sant ji well y not we shouldnt be so quick to critisise The guy needs a big slap! Indulging in worship of someone beside our Guru. Even Baba Jarnail Singh said that he does not call himself sant, and everyone should bow before only Guru Granth Sahib. Do paath of 'Anand Sahib', it will calm you, and make you cheerful.

Jesus died to pay for the sins of mankind, this means that the sins were paid for by Jesus. Going by definition, getting crucified for sins committed by millions, i assume population of man was not billion in 0 B.C. , is a very small punishment. I mean if it comes down to individual it gets reduced to only a minor pat on the cheek. I think it is a better arrangement, getting a pat on cheek, than spending your life in blind faith and believing in a figure that has no historical evidence. Also Sikhism teaches that man is not born with burden of sin and if there is any it gets washed away with only having a look at our Gurus face, i.e Guru Granth Sahib. And God is in the form of sacred word, shabad, that has been revealed through our Guru. (contained in Guru Granth) In Sikhism, life is the greatest gift given by Supreme God to us. Even various Gods, Jesus falls under this catagory, desire to have a human form. Life in Human form is a precious gift and our only chance to claim union with God. Following Gurus teaching, a Sikh gets merged with Supreme God himself/herself (God has no gender in sikhism). This way a Sikh of his Guru is higher than everything else in universe, even Jesus, Buddha, Muhammed, Vishnu, Krishna etc. In Sikhism, a Sikh leads life, which is sacred and pure with cheerfulness. Our Guru, Guru Arjan Dev ji, said 'to play and laugh is heart of the matter' (poor transliteration, but will get the message across). So, Sikhs go on enjoying life as a precious gift of God, by chanting his name, singing his glories , praying for well being of all Mankind (Sikhs pray daily for well-being of all Human race), knowing they are merged with true Lord himself/herself. 'Amarnamah' wriiten in 1708 by Nathmal Dhadi, shortly after demise of tenth Nanak, Guru Gobind Singh, vouchsafed that "Sikhs have been granted sovereignty of both the worlds, and must retain high spirits under all circumstances" Waheguruji ka Khalsa Waheguruji ki Fateh. ))))

Why is it that in the 1980’s, Prof. Darshan Singh chose to hold talks with intelligence agents and Government officials but today he cannot sit with GurSikhs to resolve the ‘issue’ of Sri Dasam Granth Sahib. In recent times he has held events from Sri Hazoor Sahib and spoken against the status of Sri Dasam Granth but he could not attend the convention at Damdama Sahib. In the matter of Sri Dasam Granth, there are two sides holding opposing views. What is the problem that Prof. Darshan Singh has in sitting down with the other side to resolve it? Such double-standards shown by Prof. Darshan Singh suggest a lot. There are people who like to spark a fire and then escape to save themselves and Prof. Darshan Singh has done the same. He has caused doubts in minds of so many youth, who today are ready to go after each other's throats on the matter of Sri Dasam Granth. This blame clearly lies on Darshan Singh himself. taken from panthic.org Oye isnu [darshane nu] gaddi chaad do!

May be there are not replies to the topic because the website you posted is not very good, all it has is a story that the british changed chaupai sahib, and hasnt given any evidence, proof or references that would make us believe it? And this is coming from someone who reads the so called "full" chaupai sahib The chaupai sahib is full in some of gutkas i 've read, if not all. About the british claims of website, i found it amusing!! This is true indian pyche, blaming foreign powers for all bad things. Besides we all know that the nihangs have continued to flourish with their organisations, inspite of so called persecution by british. The true fell in battles with british, the false and motivated then occupied defeated citadels and rolled out their version of Sikhi. But i do agree that beards should not be rolled up and tied , but flowing and full unshorn hair.

yes, they decided to keep it together, but that does not mean that all of the work is of Guruji. Dasam Granth is no doubt a shortened version but devised by brahmins. You cannot ignore the fact that after banda Bahadurs death till rise of misls, Sikh history is full of dark bloody chapters. and no genuine sikh accounts exists during that period, because sikhs were fighting for existence. The brahmins were aided by UDASIS and NIRMALAS. The nirmalas did provided interpretation of Gurbani, but gave it vedantic interpretation. the Deras were originally established by nirmalas. After the death of Bhai mani singh and Nawab Kapur Singh, caste hindus such as Rama Randhawa , Karma Chinna etc. tried to subvert sikhi for their gains and aided brahmins in distorting sikh writings. One of the famous distorters is Koer singh Kalal, who added 41st // in 'vaaran bhai gurdas' and showed guruji as worshipping Durga. he admiited that he was sikh only in name and took the name 'Kala'l to gain respect from name of Jassa singh kalal. (read 'gurbilas patshahi dasvin' 1751) then came large number of converts from vaishnav hindus, who are still posing a challange to sikhi. then came your famous Kesar singh Chibber, who had devout sikh ancestors like Bhai Mati Das and Bhai Sati Das. He also distorted sikh doctrines.To him, the main purpose of sikh rule should have been protection of brahmins. (read 'banswali nama' 1769) another was Sarup Das Bhalla (Mahima parkash, 1776), descendant of Guru Amar Das ji, tried to gain respectable positions for descendants of sikh gurus including dhir Mal, Prithi chand etc. who were detractors of sikhi. There was also Gurbilas Patshahi 6, 1718, by sohan kavi, who brings in lot of rituals contradicting sikh theology. baba virsa singh has named Ashok singhal as one of his trustees in his will.ashok singhal is head of RSS and claims sikhs are hindus. And it would be tiresome to include the names of many other sant babas, as list is too long. I am not saying that dasam granth does not have gurujis bani. I am saying that not all of it is his work. i am unable to find the exact thing, but the sgpc committee agreed that some parts were not work of guruji.

It was originally known as ''Bachitar Natak'' by Bhai Mani Singh in 18th century, and even he was very clear in deciphering half a dozen compositions as those of guruji , while rest belonged to his court poets. There was a lot of protest to seperate Gurbani from that of court poets, and as already stated earlier the decision was made not on logic, but chance. It was about hundered years later that it came to be known as ''Dasam Granth'', a name given by brahminical forces, not un-mischievously. :gg:

a very good article, thanks. please post more articles like these.. ))))

As would be easily evident from the comments...no one here is a scholar on the subject. *edited* While an example has been given of SGPC commitee, even they accepted that some of the parts were not from the pen of Dasam Pitah. The Udasis were good only till Gurujis time, don't forget that it were Udasis who brought Brahminical practises such as idol worship, seeing horoscopes etc. into Gurdwaras. And the less we talk about Virsa Singh the better. I have personally met him atleast twice, have also visited Gobind Sadan. He was, according to me, under brahminical influences. I lost respect for him after my second meeting. Guys, personally, i would like to beat the <admin-profanity filter activated> out of this Darshan Singh. But, please don't forget that this year we are celebrating tri-cenetary of JUGO JUG ATAL SRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI MAHARAJ. So, lets not forget who our Guru is and where our actions should be directed. And the work of Dasam Pitah in Dasam Granth is equally holy and divine, but not of his poets.

I am not a big scholar on this subject. But some parts were still not written by Guruji and that is enough, when you compare it to Adi Sri Guru Granth Sahib. The sant samaj is cutting at the roots of Sikhism, and they don't even have an authority in any Sikh scripture. Most preach kachi bani. Many of them are bad as the most Jathedars. The most pious man i have seen in my life was Bhagat Puran Singh. He was a thousand times better than modern sants, yet he called himself Bhagat and not Brahmgyani Sant Baba.

Interesting points so far..as the admim. have already decided about the Dasam Issue...some are still arguing over it. As such i feel i can add another point to it. It is a well accepted fact that not all of compositions of Dasam granth are work of Guru Gobind Singhji. But the way two Takhts are projecting it makes it look like all of the work is his composition. The debate here in Punjab is that when the panth is celebrating Gurgaddi Diwas, some motivated people are raising controveries. If they had wanted they could have waited for a year to let the celebrations pass. The problem is that the leadership of the panth has been taken over by semi-literate Jathedars and cynical Nihangs. These kind of people are for promoting their own gains and not that of Sikhi. There is allround corruption in gurdwaras. Common people who are sincere have no say. Lumpen elements in foreign countries, esp. Canada raise the slogan of khalistan for monetry gains or take control of gurdwaras. It has become very difficult to differentiate between honest and criminal enterprises functioning in realm of Sikhi. Sikhism is in doldrums in India, if its instituions get destroyed, Sikhi will not be what Gurus wanted. Majority of Jathedars, so called sants, panthic leaders are corrupt and not loyal to Gurus injuction. The dedication of Sri hazur Sahib is un-questionable, but they do have brahminical practises. In Punjab, the money offerings made to Gurdwaras are used by Akali Dal and SGPC for fighting elections. Whenever Badal does a big rally, the food at the rally is sent from langar of Harmandir Sahib. Whoever replaces Badal would be equally corrupt. Corruption will never go out from Gurdwaras because of money involved. These people have no hesitation in mis-using offerings of devotees, who earn by their hard work and their crimes seem to miss Gurujis eye.

Lal Krishna Advani (president of BJP and their Prime Ministerial candidate) stated in his Autobiography, released recently, that it was his party which put pressure on Indira Gandhi to launch Operation Blue Star. He even went on to describe Sant Bhindranwale as 'Bhasmasur'. The congress leadership (Sonia Gandhi is honest i think) has become sensible to sikhs, it is the BJP Sikhs need to watch out now. I never said they were, and the only reason we're here to refute the anti-Hindu remarks you make here on a daily basis. For example?

To Kooka, Although Kookas are supposed to have a living Guru, but i am not sure. I have seen that the present head of Kookas, sits at a lower level than palki sahib where Guru Granth Sahib ji is placed. Also Kooka movement was started by Baba Ram Singh after fall of Sikh empire. He was exiled by British to Rangoon and died there. He wrote letters to his followers that he is not and should not be treated as a Guru. He did contribute to preseve Sikhi after fall of empire to counter hindu onslaught. His revolutionary war against the british was for freedom and many years before rebellion of 1857, it was rightly the 'first war of independance', but the govt led by Gandhi and Nehru did not want any credit to go to Sikhs. He was conveniently forgotten so that credit could be given to those who were Hindus. I don't know why Kookas treat him a a Guru or Satguru, maybe to keep the ideology intact. Kooka Sahib would you please clarify the Guru position...i am confused

Don't know the exact controversy as have not read the article by the person beaten up. But here are some leads.... "As motives of Kala Afghana failed deliberately after his excommunication, the Rozana Spokesman strived to keep his ideology alive by spreading the same propaganda. In clear words, Hari Ratan Yukta states that Guru ‘Granth’ Sahib is nothing but a mere book. According to Yukta, Guru Granth Sahib should be given the same respect as followers of other religions cater to their scriptures. Just as Muslims do not bow to the Koran, Christians do not put the Bible to ‘Sukhasan’, Sikhs should also not treat Guru Granth Sahib as the living embodiment of the ten Sikh Gurus. According to Yukta, doing so leaves no difference between the Sikhs and the Hindus who also ‘worship’ statues." "Simranjit Singh Mann of Shiromani Akali Dal (Amritsar) gave an ultimatum to the Police to arrest Yukta and Sawhney or face consequences." Here is the website..but i am unable to find the aricle as i don't know the dtae of it's publishing. Maybe someone else can. http://www.***anti-sikh website not allowed***/

To Phillip or anyone for that mater, i found this on Topix.net )))) John Smith from Atheist Society Writes About Sikhism: Dear Ali, please help us. We were very impressed with your website and agreed that religion in general is no longer needed, we can all be humanistic and live in peace and harmony. We are in the process of making a website which will hopefully help to destroy the religious doctrines which divide humanity. We were doing great with knocking out Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Baha'i, even Buddhism but we have gotten very stuck with Sikhism. This religion is (to put it nicely) "a big pain in the <admin-profanity filter activated>" (Please pardon the language) We have only found one site which tries (very poorly) to argue that even this religion is not needed, but the argument is irrational and very unscientific unlike the very rational arguments you use. When we read the following from your website, we found what you said to be amazingly interesting: "Doubt Everything Find Your Own Light." "Last Words Dear friend, if you look for meaning in life, don’t look for it in religions; don’t go from one cult to another or from one guru to the next. You can expend all your life or look for eternity and will find nothing but disappointment and disillusionment. Look instead in service to humanity. You will find “meaning” in your love for other human beings. You can experience God when you help someone who needs your help. The only truth that counts is the love that we have for each other. This is absolute and real. The rest is mirage, fancies of human imagination and fallacies of our own making." By Ali Sina Why is this interesting? Because we found this religion of Sikhism to be in agreement with you! This is why we have a problem. We tried to look at their holy text (Adi Granth) but didnt find the usual absurdities we found in the other religious books. In fact its refreshingly inspiring and very good!? Maybe you can have some better luck. We tried to visit a couple of websites and got more of a shock. Did you know that they believed in Democracy, freedom of speech, choice, expression, freedom of religion, pluralism, human rights, equality between men and women, equality of all people regardless of race, religion, caste, creed, status etc. 300 years before the existance of the USA! Theirs is the only religion which says in their religious scriptures that women are equal in every respect to men. They even had women soldiers leading armies in to battle against "you know who" (The usual suspects - Muslims!) Their history is a proud one, they fought in both World Wars. Even Hitler praised them for their bravery and Aryan heritage! Dear Ali, this religion is hard for us to try and criticise but you are an expert and may find some faults overlooked by us. In their holy book, there is a round earth, water is made from chemical elements, there is even mention of the evoution process, big bang and life on other planets! This is pretty crazy and amazing stuff, who would have thought that these New York taxi drivers (There are lots of Sikh taxi drivers in NY) would have such an amzing faith? We read up some information of what Bertrand Russell had to say about Sikhism, this is the man who destroyed Christianity (same applies to Islam and Judaism) and exposed its absurdities, but even this great man got stuck when it came to Sikhism! In fact he gave up and said "that if some lucky men survive the onslaught of the third world war of atomic and hydrogen bombs, then the Sikh religion will be the only means of guiding them. Russell was asked that he was talking about the third world war, but isn't this religion capable of guiding mankind before the third world war? In reply, Russell said, "Yes, it has the capability, but the Sikhs have not brought out in the broad daylight, the splendid doctrines of this religion which has come into existence for the benefit of the entire mankind. This is their greatest sin and the Sikhs cannot be freed of it." Please bear in mind that Bertrand Russell was a great philosopher and free thinker. We have been trying for weeks now to find a way to fairly and rationally criticize and find fault with this religion but have failed. We even found out that there are many people converting to this religion in the USA and Europe as well as Russia (Mostly well educated and affluent white people). We tried to find some of their literature and see what kind of claims they make, but unfortunatley they have no missionary material as they do not have missionsaries! People become Sikh by learning usually by chance or by coming in to contact with them. They are currently the 5th biggest religion in the world and growing quite fast in the west and Russia. Please help us as we are stuck, to give you an example of they are all about we found the following websites: http://www.sikhnet.com (This is a pretty good site and helpful) http://www.hope.at/sikhism (This site is very easy to follow, check it out, they have a Womans section and a Martyrs section, it looks like that you are not the only one trying to expose the falseness of Islam, Sikhs scholars did it hundreds of years ago and got killed for it!) http://www.sikhs.org (This is the site that was on CNN when Sikhs in the USA were mistaken for Arabs and Middle Easterners and were attacked by mindless morons) Please help us out, we cant make our website about religion being the cause of war and disharmony when we have this one and only religion which makes a hell of a lot of sense! lol (I thought Atheism had all the answers but were kind of stuck now.) We look forward to hearing from you, we respect your great views and want to promote them to everyone, thank you for your time, take care.

Please don't abuse any one. It is not a great thing. <_<

Prasadi was the name of a baby elephant , which was gifted to Guru Gobind Singh ji. The prince of Assam, whose parents had sought blessings of Guru Tegh Bahadur ji for birth of a son, came and presented it as a gift to Guruji. The young elephant was white or blue in color. He was trained to perform many acts. He wold hold a jug of water and wash Guruji's feet, and then dry them with a towel. He wiped Guruji's shoes and arranged them properly for Guruji to put them on. He fetched an arrow discharged by Guruji. He would wave peacock feathers in a knot over Guruji. At night he lighted two torches and showed way to Guruji. Many people came to see him. Unfortunately, the elephant died during seige of Anandpur due to starving.

At Darbar Sahib, Amritsar they begin at 2:15 a.m and after doing parikarma of palki sahib take first 'Hukamnana' at 2:45 a.m Therefore, amrit vela should be before 3 a.m and before dawn. Guru Amar Das in Anand sahib orders his Sikhs to wake up at amrit-vela , before sunrise, take bath and recite banee of wahguru and then proceed for work. So, amrit-vela is before sunrise. when surroundings are calm and peaceful. ))))

Beware of any curious friends looking to learn about Sikhism here. I found this somewhere and thought should place it here. http://www.forananswer.org/Top_WR/Gidoomal_Differences.pdf ))))

I don't think it is a cause to worry as long as we are not treating anybody un-equally. Also different circumstances require different approach. )))) we need to be brave enough to sit on the floor in the middle of those tables in full view of everyone and eat Guru Ji's Langar in Pangat as it's meant to be. :Re: I fully agree. Sikhi is about bravery and setting examples.

Maybe they are ignorant. Or the person who wrote, probably read a book by Mc-leod. :lol:

I am sorry, i mis-represented the "channel" thing! Small mistake but corrected by another editor.Thanks.

Hi phillip, Sikhism does not believe in any "son of god', because there isn't any. God is formless and without relatives, sons, mother, father. God is not like Humans. Sikh Gurus taught that one must remain in high spirits under all circumstances, good or bad. In Sikhism you pray directly to God, not to anyone else such as Jesus. The Sikh Gurus were not Sons of god or his manifestation or incarnation because there is not any . The Sikh Guru were a channel through which God spoke. And that was not to worship or believe in anybody, holy spirit, jesus, buddha, ram muhammed etc. but only in God. (not even in Sikh Gurus) Guru Gobind Singh said that those who believe him to be God or his manifestation will be doomed. There is only one supreme God and all other held beliefs are false.

Hello everyone, This is my first post and i hope i don't do anything wrong. To Phillip, If you really want to know Sikhism than i suggest that you visit a Gurdwara near you. Learning something as you see it is always positive. Also you said that you want to know about Sikhism, but you never stated what you want to know. You must be having some questions about Sikhism, exp. relating to god, actions, lifestyle, approach etc. It is always better to ask specifically what you want to know. Since it is pretty obvious that you must have visited many other sites, and not just this one ,relating to Sikhism, therefore ambigious queries are likely to be treated with suspicion (by me atleast). Here are some brief points by me (forgive if they are being repeated) 1. Sikhism is a strictly and uncompromising Monotheistic religion. 2. The Founder of Sikhism is Guru Nanak, whose parents were Hindus. Guru Nanak ,since he was a child, rejected all existing religious beliefs of his time. The teachings of Gurus contained in Guru Granth were revealed first to Guru Nanak and then to his successive Gurus by God . Sikhism is based on revelation of Guru Nanak although what he received was not in a voilent manner or sudden. Guru Nanak met with God and said he/she was beyond description. 3. Guru Nanak lived for seventy years during which he travelled a lot and established a strict following but not by conversion. 3. Guru Nanak taught that God is Formless, eternal, all prevading, merciful, omnipresent, without mother father or any relatives, and does not take incarnation on earth. 4. Guru Nanak taught that God can be only realised through a channel, which was in the form of Guru. 5. God can be realised by only reciting his name and Gurbani (text in Guru Granth Sahib) 6. There are many Gurus on earth but only a true Guru can lead to God. 7. Guru Nanak appointed a successor and their were total nine gurus after Guru Nanak. 9. The last Guru, Guru Gobind Singh, appointed Guru Granth Sahib as the eternal Guru of Sikhs. 10. Guru Gobind Singh said that there was no difference between Guru Nanak and successive nine Gurus and all were manifestation of first guru, Guru Nanak. 11. That is why all Gurus refer to themselves as Nanak in their hymns in Guru Granth Sahib. 12.Guru Gobind Singh said that the mission of Guru Nanak was completed, therefore, there was no need of successive Gurus in human form. 13. Guru Granth is the living manifestation of Sikh Gurus, as it contains exactly what they taught and in same wording, and should be treated as such. 14.Guru Gobind Singh said that those who want to find God, can do so in Guru Granth. The teachings of Guru Nanak and his successors are contained in Guru Granth Sahib. 15.Sikhs are required to maintain distinct five k's as per guidlines of Guru Gobind singh (Tenth Nanak). 16.These are Unshorn Hair, a steel bracelet, a comb, a short underpants, a dagger. 18. If we want to speak to God, we can do so only by reciting Gurbani from Guru Granth Sahib. 19. Guru Granth Sahib is a channel (Guru) through which God speaks with us. 20. Only Guru Granth Sahib is True Guru, any other posing as such is false. A false Guru might get you some material satisfaction, but you will never realise God. 21. Sikh Gurus were not sons or messangers or incarnation of God, but a medium through which God spread his message on earth. 22. In Sikhism all praise is to God only and none else.