ISingh

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

If Guru Nanak Dev Ji can worship Waheguru in a Masjid withought any influences, then why can not his Sikhs worship Waheguru in a Mandhir withought idol worship, arti and any other Hindu practice?

"The Hindu is blind and the Muslim is one-eyed. The Lord divine is the wiser of the two. The Hindu worships at the temple and the Muslim at the mosque. Namdev serves that Lord, who has neither a temple nor a mosque." (Bhagat Namdev, Gond, pg. 875)

I've said already twice that there is nothing wrong at all in visiting other places of worship for observance and to understand other faiths:

Page 1350

Prabhaatee:

byd kqyb

khhu mq JUTy JUTw jo n ibcwrY ]baedh kuthaeb kehuhu muth jhoothae jhoothaa jo n bichaarai

Do not say that the Vedas, the Bible and the Koran are false. Those who do not contemplate them are false.

But why??????? What is the sole purpose of a Gurdwara????? So you can go to a Mosque or Mandhir instead. Did you even read what i posted about Guru Nanak Dev Ji? Guru Nanak's parchaar was of Truth, not "I'll go and pray in a mosque and mandir so my Sikhs can do the same." He wanted Hindu and Muslims to realise that there is Only One, whether He be called Alllah or Raam. You say Sikhs can worship in a mandir withought idol worship, arti and any other Hindu practices. So whats the purpose of a Gurdwara, so we can worship waheguroo with idol worship, arti and any other Hindu practices?

Page 730

Soohee, First Mehl:

gurU duAwrY hoie soJI pwiesI ]

guroo dhuaarai <admin-profanity filter activated> sojhee paaeisee

Through the Gurdwara, the Guru's Gate, one obtains understanding.

Page 32

Siree Raag, Third Mehl:

dyvx vwly kY hiQ dwiq hY gurU duAwrY pwie ]

dhaevun vaalae kai hath dhaath hai guroo dhuaarai paae

The Gift is in the Hands of the Great Giver. At the Guru's Door, in the Gurdwara, it is

received.

Page 1015

Maaroo, First Mehl:

gur duAwrY nwau pweIAY ibnu siqgur plY n pwie ]

n>

gur dhuaarai naao paaeeai bin sathigur pulai n paae

Through the Guru's Gate, the Gurdwara, the Name is obtained. Without the True Guru, it is not received.

Page 1074

Maaroo, Fifth Mehl, Solhas:

gur duAwrY hir kIrqnu suxIAY ]

gur dhuaarai har keeruthun suneeai

At the Gurdwara, the Guru's Gate, the Kirtan of the Lord's Praises are sung.

siqguru Byit hir jsu muiK BxIAY ]

sathigur bhaett har jus mukh bhuneeai

Meeting with the True Guru, one chants the Lord's Praises.

Can you do all this in a mandhir, mosque or church. No i think not. Even Bahgat Kabeer Ji Says (Raag Sorath Page 654)

byd purwn sBY mq suin kY krI krm kI Awsw ]

baedh puraan subhai muth sun kai kuree kurum kee aasaa

Listening to all the teachings of the Vedas and the Puraanas, I wanted to perform the religious rituals.

kwl gRsq sB log isAwny auiT pMifq pY cly inrwsw ]1]

kaal grusuth subh log siaanae outh punddith pai chulae niraasaa

But seeing all the wise men caught by Death, I arose and left the Pandits; now I am free of this desire. ||1||

mn ry sirE n eykY kwjw ]

mun rae sariou n eaekai kaajaa

O mind, you have not completed the only task you were

given;

BijE n rGupiq rwjw ]1] rhwau ]

bhajiou n rughupath raajaa

you have not meditated on the Lord, your King. ||1||Pause||

You said:

The fact that many Sikhs today perform these rituals is too, not very suprising as many of our ancestors originate from the Hindus.

Dur kI bwxI AweI ]

dhur kee baanee aaee

The Bani of His Word emanated from the Primal Lord.

therefore Sikhs did not originate from Hindu ancestors but Waheguroo.

Firstly, why can not we compare friends from our social life to Guru Ji coming our house? Is Guru Ji not our social friend?

Respect everyone. But you cannot honestly say that you would give your social friend and Guru Jee the same status and respect in your home? Guru is our Only True Friend who will stick with us no matter what we do. Your social friends are materialistic in the world which we live in.

Bani written by Bhagat

Kabeer Ji who himself was a muslim.

Varaa Bhai Gurdas Ji

suxI pukwr dwqwr pRB gur nwnk jg mwihM pTwXw]

sunee pukaar dhaathaar prubh gur naanuk jug maahin puthaayaa

The benefactor Lord listened to the cries (of humanity) and sent Guru Nanak to this world.

crn Doie rihrws kr crnwimRq is`KW pIlwXw]

churun dhoe rehiraas kur churunaamrith skhiaa peelaayaa

He washed His feet, eulogised God and got his Disciples drink the ambrosia of his feet.

Wasn't Bhagat Kabir Ji a Sikh accroding to this? If his Bani is in Guru Granth Sahib Ji then wasn't he a disciple of Guru Nanak?

If you say NO then you have no Vishwaas in Guru Granth Sahib Ji at all, and this isn't a hardcore statement, its blatently obvious from your posts

Can other people please put their views forward.

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

To be honest I personaly think that the majority of the Sikhs would just laugh if someone told them the Sikhs are part of Hinduism-

Tose who have knowlegde and practice Sikhi will laugh, but the majority don't understand and these ridiculous practices have already become a part of their lives.

I dont believe they are implying the Mandhir is a special place but I believe its just simply what they say- they want to show their respect. Why do we invite close friends to our houses for meals? Its just respect. I think we shouldnt jump to hardcore conclusions unless their is solid evidence- but this was just painting youre own picture withought anything to paint.

Firstly you can't compare your friends from your social life to Guru Ji coming to your house. Thats that. Secondaly there ar

e no hardcore conclusions. What i said was quoted from what the pardaan sahib from Guru Gobind Singh Gurdwara at the time of vasakhi said. He said "they wan't to pay respect", whats wrong with that. He was invited by Singh Sabha to the Gurdwara to question him about what was going on with the Nagar Kirtan-Seen as Leeds Road was where the Nagar Kirtan was starting from. The same Pardaan justfied his answer by saying "Both Hindu and Muslim Bani is in the Guru Granth Sahib." Now if this is came from the Pardhaan of a Gurdwara, then what are the thoughts of the Sangat. Obviously the same.

But fundamently there is nothing wrong for a Sikh to go to Mandhir.

Please give your reasons. Be fair i've given you all the possible reasons, but you still come to this conclusion. Justify your answer. Theres nothing wrong with going to other places of worship for observance of other faiths for your knowledge, but if your saying its ok to go and do idol worship, because thats what they do in a mandhir then you are completely and utterly wrong according to Guru Granth Sahib Ji

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Isingh i think ur getting ur wires crossed

Ehh...Singhni i wasn't even replying to your post. My reply is on a completely different topic: RSS and Nagar Kirtan!

I think your getting your wires crossed. :T:

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

Sure simran would have many possotive implications on the human body- NO DOUBT. But as a Doctor it is my duty make you aware the negative implications too

Tell me this, can Naam Abhyaas EVER be negative?

The only correct way to Naam Jap is from the NAAM that Punj Piare give in the presence of Guru Ji.

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

ISingh, Vir Ji, if their is a hukamnama stating that Guru Granth Sahib Ji should not be taken to or rest outside any other place other than the Gurdwara- please could you state it. If you are not completely sure if there is such a hukamnama (as it appears to me), you should not presume there is one.

If anything we Sikhs should be more willing to visit the mandir if it has links with RSS- to let the RSS know that we sikhs are so strong that noything can change us

Regarding RSS, the whole issue is being looked at from the surface. Your very right in saying that we should be strong enough to visit the Mandir. But here's where RSS and other Hindu organisations are 1 step ahead of us. You know, I know and they know that Sikhs at this present time are not united in the Panth. How can we be when there are people in main organisations of the Panth are running around like dogs for the Indian government and implementing more of th

e Hindu beliefs into the Panth. Because they know the majority of sikhs dont have a clue and are vulnerable, they ask for Nagar Kirtan to stop outside the mandhir. Why? So they can drill the idea into the Nagar Kirtan sangat that Sikhi is part of Hinduism!!!! The other reason they give is that they want to pay respect to Guru Ji????? Guru Ka Ghar (Gurdwara) is open to anyone and everyone for them to pay satkaar to Guru Ji. So why is the Mandhir any special??

I dont see whats wrong for a sikh or the sikhs guru (Guru Granth Sahib Ji) to attened a Mandir

AMg 1349

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Page 1349

pRBwqI ]

prubhaathee

Prabhaatee:

Alhu eyku msIiq bsqu hY Avru mulKu iksu kyrw ]

aluhu eaek museeth busuth hai avur mulukh kis kaeraa

If the Lo

rd Allah lives only in the mosque, then to whom does the rest of the world belong?

ihMdU mUriq nwm invwsI duh mih qqu n hyrw ]1]

hindhoo moorath naam nivaasee dhuh mehi thuth n haeraa

According to the Hindus, the Lord's Name abides in the idol, but there is no truth in either of these claims. ||1||

Alh rwm jIvau qyry nweI ]

aleh raam jeevo thaerae naaee

O Allah, O Raam, I live by Your Name.

qU kir imhrwmiq sweI ]1] rhwau ]

thoo kar mihuraamath saaee

Please show mercy to me, O Master. ||1||Pause||

dKn dyis hrI kw bwsw piCim Alh mukwmw ]dhukhun dhaes huree kaa baasaa pashim aleh mukaamaa

The God of the Hindus lives in the southern lands, and the God of the Muslims lives in the west.

idl mih Koij idlY idil Kojhu eyhI Taur mukwmw ]2]

dhil mehi khoj dhilai dhil khojuhu eaehee thour mukaamaa

So search in your heart - look deep into your heart of hearts; this is the home and the place where God lives. ||2||

bRhmn igAws krih caubIsw kwjI mh rmjwnw ]

brehumun giaas kurehi choubeesaa kaajee meh rumujaanaa

The Brahmins observe twenty-four fasts during the year, and the Muslims fast during the month of Ramadaan.

igAwrh mws pws kY rwKy eykY mwih inDwnw

]3]

giaareh maas paas kai raakhae eaekai maahi nidhaanaa

The Muslims set aside eleven months, and claim that the treasure is only in the one month. ||3||

khw aufIsy mjnu kIAw ikAw msIiq isru nWeyN ]

kehaa ouddeesae mujun keeaa kiaa museeth sir naaeae

What is the use of bathing at Orissa? Why do the Muslims bow their heads in the mosque?

idl mih kptu invwj gujwrY ikAw hj kwbY jWeyN ]4]

dhil mehi kuputt nivaaj gujaarai kiaa huj kaabai jaaeae

If someone has deception in his heart, what good is it for him to utter prayers? And what good is it for him to go on pilgrimage to Mecca? ||4||

eyqy Aaurq mrdw swjy ey sB rUp qum@wry ]

eaethae aouruth murudhaa saajae eae subh roop thumuaarae

You fashioned all these men and women, Lord. All these are Your Forms.

kbIru pUMgrw rwm Alh kw sB gur pIr hmwry ]5]

kubeer poonguraa raam aleh kaa subh gur peer humaarae

Kabeer is the child of God, Allah, Raam. All the Gurus and prophets are mine. ||5||

khqu kbIru sunhu nr nrvY prhu eyk kI srnw ]

kehuth kubeer sunuhu nur nuruvai puruhu eaek kee surunaa

Says Kabeer, listen, O men and women: seek the Sanctuary of the One.

kyvl nwmu jphu ry pRwnI qb hI inhcY qrnw ]6]2]

kaevul naam jupuhu rae praanee thub hee nihuchai thurunaa

Chant the Naam, the Name of the

Lord, O mortals, and you shall surely be carried across. ||6||2||

Go to http://www.sikhlionz.com/rss.htm to see what kind of things they distribute about Sikhi.

correct me if i'm wrong, did not Guru Nanak Dev Ji not visit a masjid? Guru Nanak Dev ji visited a masjid but still worshiped the one mercifull waheguru beacuse he saw no difference in allah and waheguru.

Correct. But here's why Guru Nanak Dev Ji really went to Masjid:

After this, Guru Nanak donned a religious costume and associated constantly with religious men. He remained silent for one day, and the next he uttered the pregnant announcement, 'There is no Hindu and no Musalman.' The Sikhs interpret this to mean generally that both Hindus and Muhammadans had forgotten the precepts of their religions. On a complaint made by the Nawab's Qazi, or expounder of Muhammadan law, the Guru was summoned before Daulat Khan to give an explanation of his words. He refused to go, saying, 'What have I to do with your Khan?' The Guru was again called a madman. His mind was full of his mission, and whenever he spoke be merely said, 'There is no Hindu and no Musalman.' The Qazi was not slow to make another representation to the Governor on the impropriety of Nanak's utterance. Upon this the Governor sent for him. A footman went and told the Guru that the Governor had requested him to come to h

im. Then Guru Nanak stood up and went to the Governor. The Governor addressed him, 'Nanak, it is my misfortune that such an officer as thou should have become a faqir.' The Governor then seated him beside him, and directed his Qazi to ask, now that Nanak was in conversational mood, the meaning of his utterance. The Qazi became thoughtful, and smiled. He then asked Nanak, 'What hath happened to thee, that

[1. S. colloquialism.

2. Mâru.]

{p. 38}

thou sayest there is no Hindu and no Musalman?

The Guru, not being engaged in controversy with Hindus at the time, gave no answer to the first part of the question. In explanation of his statement that there was no Musalman he uttered the following:--

To be[1] a Musalman is difficult; if one be really so, then one may be called a Musalman.

Let one first love the religion of saints,[2] and put aside pride and pelf[3] as the file removeth rust.

Let him accept the religion of his pilots, and dismiss anxiety regarding death or life;[4]

Let him heartily obey the will of God, worship the Creator, and efface himself--

When he is kind to all men, then Nanak, shall he be indeed a Musalman.[5]

The Qazi then put further questions to the Guru. The Guru called on Mardana to play the rebeck, and sang to it the following replies and instructions adapted for Muhammadans:--

Make kindness thy mosque, sincerity thy prayer-carpet, what is just and lawful thy Quran,

Modesty thy circumcision, civility thy fasting, so shalt thou be a Musalman;

Make right conduct thy Kaaba,[6] truth thy spiritual guide, good works thy creed and thy prayer,

The will of God thy rosary, and God will preserve thine honour, O Nanak

[1 In the original, 'to be called a Musalman.' The same idiom is found in Greek.

2. Also translated--(a) Let him first of all make his religion agreeable to men; (B) let him first love his saints and his religion.

3. Also translated--(a) which bring trouble; (B) to dispel pride and worldly love is to be filed or cleansed of impurities.

4. This verse is also translated--Being resigned to God, obedient (dîn), and lowly (mahâne), let man set aside all fear of birth and death--the transmigration which so exercises the oriental mind.

5. Mâjh ki Wâr.

6. The great cube-like Muhammadan temple at Makka to which the faithful make pilgrimages.]

{p. 39}

Nanak, let others' goods[1] be to thee as swine to the Musalman and kine to the Hindu;[2]

Hindu and Musalman spiritual teachers will go bail for thee if thou eat not carrion.[3]

Thou shalt not go to heaven by lip service; it is by the practice of truth thou shalt be delivered.

Unlawful food will not become lawful by putting spices[4] therein.

Nanak, from false words only falsehood can be obtained.

There are five prayers, five times for prayer, and five names for them[5]--

The first should be truth, the second what is right, the third charity in God's name,

The fourth good intentions, the fifth the praise and glory of God.

If thou make good works the creed thou repeatest, thou shalt be a Musalman.

They who are false, O Nanak, shall only obtain what is altogether false.

The Qazi became astonished at being thus lectured. Prayers had become to him a matter of idle lip-repetition of Arabic texts, while his mind was occupied with his worldly affairs.

It was now the time for afternoon prayer. The whole company, including Nanak, went to the mosque. Up rose the Qazi and began the service. The Guru looked towards him and laughed in his face. When prayer was over, the Qazi complained to the Nawab of Nanak's conduct. The Guru said he had laughed because the Qazi's prayer was not

[1. Literally

--rights, or what is due to thy neighbour.

2. The Musalmâns abstain from the flesh of swine, and the Hindus from the flesh of kine.

3. What is not thine own.

4. This means that, if wealth be improperly obtained, a portion of it bestowed in alms will be no atonement.

5. Prayers, or rather texts from the Qurân, are repeated by strict Musalmâns at dawn, at midday, in the afternoon, in the evening, and before going to sleep at night.]

{p. 40}

accepted of God. The Qazi asked Nanak to state the reason for his conclusion. The Guru replied that immediately before prayer the Qazi had unloosed a new-born filly. While he ostensibly performed divine service, he remembered there was a well in the enclosure, and his mind was filled with apprehension lest the filly should fall into it. His heart was therefore not in his devotions. The Guru informed the Nawab also that while he was pretending to pray, he was thinking of purchasing horses in Kabul. Both admitted the truth of the Guru's statements, said he was favoured of God, and fell at his feet. The Guru then uttered the following:--

He is a Musalman who effaceth himself,

Who maketh truth and contentment his holy creed,

Who neither toucheth what is standing, nor eateth what hath fallen--

Such a Musalman shall go to Paradise

Taken from The Sikh Religion by Max Arthur MacAuliffe 1909, Volume 1, The Life of Guru Nanak, Chapter III

http://www.sacred-texts.com/skh/tsr1/index.htm

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

The following Gursikhs will be doing Kirtan Seva:

Bhai Manmohan Singh (California)

Bibi Amrit Kaur (California)

Bhai Parmjit Singh (Jallandher)

Bhai Jasvir Singh (Chandigarh)

Bhai Manjit Singh (Glasgow)

Giani Amolak Singh (UK)

Bhai Apardeep Singh (UK)

Bibi Kuldeep Kaur (UK)

...and others

AMg 400

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Page 400

Awsw mhlw 5 ]

aasaa mehulaa 5

Aasaa, Fifth Mehl:

sUK shj Awndu Gxw hir kIrqnu gwau ]sookh sehuj aanudh ghunaa har keeruthun gaao

Peace, celestial poise and absolute bliss are obtained, singing the Kirtan of the Lord's Praises.

grh invwry siqgurU dy Apxw nwau ]1]

gureh nivaarae sathiguroo dhae apunaa naao

Bestowing His Name, the True Guru removes the evil omens. ||1||

bilhwrI gur Awpxy sd sd bil jwau ]

balihaaree gur aapunae sudh sudh bal jaao

I am a sacrifice to my Guru; forever and ever, I am a sacrifice to Him.

gurU ivthu hau vwirAw ijsu imil scu suAwau ]1] rhwau ]

guroo vittuhu ho vaariaa jis mil such suaao

I am a sacrifice to the Guru; meeting Him, I am absorbed into the True Lord. ||1||Pause||

sgun Apsgun iqs kau lgih ijsu cIiq n AwvY ]

sugun apusugun this ko lugehi jis cheeth n aavai

Good omens and bad omens affect those who do not keep the Lord in the mind.

iqsu jmu nyiV n AwveI jo hir pRiB BwvY ]2]this jum naerr n aavee jo har prabh bhaavai

The Messenger of Death does not approach those who are pleasing to the Lord God. ||2||

puMn dwn jp qp jyqy sB aUpir nwmu ]punn dhaan jup thup jaethae subh oopar naam

Donations to charity, meditation and penance - above all of them is the Naam.

hir hir rsnw jo jpY iqsu pUrn kwmu ]3]

har har rusunaa jo jupai this poorun kaam

One who chants with his tongue the Name of the Lord, Har, Har - his works are brought to perfect completion. ||3||

BY ibnsy BRm moh gey ko idsY n bIAw ]

bhai binusae bhrum moh geae ko dhisai n beeaa

His fears are removed, and his doubts and attachments are gone; he sees none other than God.

[font=Gurb

aniWebThick]nwnk rwKy pwrbRhim iPir dUKu n QIAw ]4]18]120][/font][/font]

naanuk raakhae paarubreham fir dhookh n theeaa

O Nanak, the Supreme Lord God preserves him, and no pain or sorrow afflicts him any longer. ||4||18||120||

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

Just a couple of questions:

What does the metal wiring used for holding chand/khanda signify? (very sorry don't know the proper name)

What are reasons for leaving the top of the dumalla open with the keski underneath showing and not covering it with the outer fabric

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

A humble request to all to attend the first ever UK North Samgam and to bless everyone with your presence and Sangat.

AMg 253

Page 253

pauVI ]Pauree:

Anidnu ismrhu qwsu kau jo AMiq shweI hoie ]

Night and day, meditate in remembrance on the One who will be your Help and Support in the end.

ieh ibiKAw idn cwir iCA Cwif cilE sBu koie ]

This poison shall last for only a few days; everyone must depart, and leave it behind.

kw ko mwq ipqw suq DIAw ]

Who is our mother, father, son and daughter?

igRh binqw kCu sMig n lIAw ]

Household, wife, and other things shall not go along with you.

AYsI sMic ju ibnsq nwhI ]

So gather that wealth which shall never perish,

piq syqI ApunY Gir jwhI ]

so that you may go to your true home with honor.

swDsMig kil kIrqnu gwieAw ]

In this Dark Age of Kali Yuga, those who sing the Kirtan of the Lord's Praises in the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy

nwnk qy qy bhuir n AwieAw ]15]

- O Nanak, they do not have to endure reincarnation again. ||15||

n style='font-family:GurbaniWebThick'>vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

Need some help with soundforge 6. I got live recording kirtan on md and i have put it on pc using soundforge. The recoding is good quality but the only problem is that the karkale/shenai are a bit to strong. How would I go about softening/ decreasing the loudness of the karkale and perhaps raising the kirtanis voice?

Anyone an expert in using soundforge please help. MKhalsa Jee, I'm sure you use this software?

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

The guru teaches all .. we shouldnt argue where he teaches as he is our eternal teacher .. it doesnt make a differnce if its at the gurdwara or at a mandhar the guru is still remains our guru!

We go the Gurdwara to darshan of Guru Ji, "Man Neeva Karkai". The gurdwara is open to anyone wishing to do the same as long as they abide to the basic Gurdwara principles. So why do we take Guru Ji places like the Mandir, So Guru Ji comes to them first? Why not instead of Going to the Gurdwara, we stay at home at let Guru Jee come to us?

However Guru Granth Sahib Ji also says:

SGGS p.428 Guru Amar Das Ji

ijn@w ipru rwivAw Awpxw iqn@w ivthu bil jwau ]

jinuaa pir raaviaa aapunaa thinuaa vittuhu bal jaao

I am a sacrifice to those who have enjoyed their Husband Lord.

sdw ipr kY sMig rhih ivchu Awpu gvwie ]5]

sudhaa pir kai sung rehehi vichuhu aap guvaae

Th

ey dwell forever with their Husband Lord; they eradicate self-conceit from within. ||5||

qnu mnu sIqlu muK aujly ipr kY Bwie ipAwir ]

thun mun seethul mukh oujulae pir kai bhaae piaar

Their bodies and minds are cooled and soothed, and their faces are radiant, from the love and affection of their Husband Lord.

syj suKwlI ipru rvY haumY iqRsnw mwir ]6]

saej sukhaalee pir ruvai houmai thrisunaa maar

They enjoy their Husband Lord upon His cozy bed, having conquered their ego and desire. ||6||

kir ikrpw Gir AwieAw gur kY hyiq Apwir ]kar kirupaa ghar aaeiaa gur kai haeth apaar

Granting His Grace, He comes into our homes, through our infinite Love for the Guru.

vru pwieAw sohwgxI kyvl eyku murwir ]7]

vur paaeiaa sohaagunee kaevul eaek muraar

The happy soul-bride obtains the One Lord as her Husband. ||7||

sBy gunh bKswie lieEnu myly mylxhwir ]subhae guneh bukhusaae laeioun maelae maelunehaar

All of her sins are forgiven; the Uniter unites her with Himself.

nwnk AwKxu AwKIAY jy suix Dry ipAwru ]8]12]34]

naanuk aakhun aakheeai jae sun dhurae piaar

O Nanak, chant such chants, that hearing them, He may enshrine love for you. ||8||12||34||

Its a matter having love for your Guru:

SGGS p.1412 Guru Nanak Dev Ji

jau qau pRym Kylx kw cwau ]<

/span>

jo tho praem khaelun kaa chaao

If you desire to play this game of love with Me,

isru Dir qlI glI myrI Awau ]

sir dhar thulee gulee maeree aao

then step onto My Path with your head in hand.

What i meant by the Hukamnama was that 'in the procession of the nagar kirtan' Guru Ji should only be taken to Gurdwaras and nowhere else ie. Mandir. Again if people want to pay respect then they should join in the Nagar Kirtan and follow behind in the foot steps of Guru Sahib.

Another thing how does that mandir have links with RSS

I can't believe that you think the Mandir has no links with RSS. Hasmukh Shah who is one of the 12 international trustee of VHP, a hindu nationalist group has strong links with the mandir. Their whole aim is to make Sikhs believe they are part of Hinduism, and the way they want us to believe is by taking Nagar Kirtan to the Mandir. They didn't just decide one day that we want the Nagar Kirtan to come to the Mandir, they have aims and objectives behind the plans

Open you Eyes!

Sorry if i have offended

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

as a person brought up as a "Ramgaria" in leeds had sum view point clashes

in my personal opinion they are also very naive and unwilling to accept, 4get respect others peoples view points and up bringing, and believe that their own militant style up bringing is the only tru 1

Fair enough. You are entitled to your own opinion but can u explain how you came to this conclusion. By explain i mean to say what was said to you. Singh Sabha Gurdwara does respect others peoples view points, as long as it is in line with Guru Granth and Guru Panth. Where there is something false being done in terms of parchaar, then its not a matter of respect, but a matter of right and wrong according to the Sikhi. A prime example would be the issue of the Bradford Nagar Kirtan this year, atking Maharaaj to a RSS based Hindu Mandir. There is actaully a hukamnama (I think) st

ating that Guru Granth Sahib not should be taken to and rest outside any other place other the Gurdwara. Now many other Gurdwaras in Bradford protested and did something about this. None! It was only Singh Sabha who organised youth to give out leaflets (as there was nothing else we could do) outside the Hindu Mandir. We were also called "extremeists and troublemakers". If doing parchaar like this is regarded as a "millitant style upbringing" then so be it.

but until we accpt the Sangat of what it has bcom.. regardless whether its full ov chillaz

Your right. Guru Granth Sahib Jee does give SadhSangat a high status, but not "chillaz". If we accept the sangat for what it has become, is that it then? If its full of "chillaz" does it stay at that? No. It is accepted of what the sangat has become, which is why there is much parchaar being done to change the situation from "become" to what it "should" be.

sqsMgiq kYsI jwxIAY ]

suthusungath kaisee jaaneeai

How is the Society of the Saints to be known?

ijQY eyko nwmu vKwxIAY ]

jithai eaeko naam vukhaaneeai

There, the Name of the One Lord is chanted.

Sorry if I have offended

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Veera, i get the same looks when i go to the other Gurdwaras in Bradford. People presume your some "baba ji" becuase you wear bana and dumalla. I'm nothing.

There is a lot of youth in Bradford, but i think the problem is flirting between girls and boys at the Gurdwara. This is everywhere. Kaam is so powerful, that little things like flirting seem nothing you.

The one gurdwara bradford project is huge. The only way to do this is in my opinion is to hold camps, seminars, kirtan darbaars, rehnsbais organised by all the Gurdwaras put together doing parchaar of Guru Granth and Guru Panth. There are regular camps held at various Gurdwaras in Bradford, but everyone tries to keep the organistaion and content of the camp between a few. This is mainly due to personality clashes and parchaar of different maryadas, whereas there should be parchaar of only one maryada, the Akaal Takth Rehit Maryada.

Gurdwaras are beginning to do more parchaar in bradford, but i agree with Jagjit Singh when he says Singh Sabha are most active Gurdwara in Bradford. But that doesn't mean that all other issues don't go on. There is caste, but its not shown and there people in the Gurdwara who have a backward thinking and try to change the gurdwara, akaal thakt maryada to what they heard from some baba or sant ji.

Bhai Surjit Singh ,Punjab did parchaar at khalsacamp and then came to Bradford from Saturday to Friday and did parchaar. Up until wednesday the programme was broadcasted on punjab radio. he said "that the rate that sikhi is going down now, there will be nothing left in the years to come. Its important that w

e educate the youth who will be the ones running the gurdwaras and doing mass parchaar for the Panth"

Bhul Chukh Maaf

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

The Akhand Kirtani jatha Uk North smagam will be held in Leeds and Bradford from 12th to 15th November 2003. The smagam will be based at Singh sabha Gurdwara, Bradford, with Asa Di // every morning. Then in the evening the smagam will visit various Gurdwaras. The main rainsbhai will be on the 15th November at Chapeltown Gurdwara in Leeds.

There will be an Amrit Sanchaar for all those wishing to be blessed with the Gift of Amrit. Gursikh international kirtani sevadaars will be arriving.

"Aavo sajjana ho Dekha darshan thera Ram,

Ghar Appenare karee thakan, mae mun chow kanera Ram."

My Lord beloved, I await your darshan,

In my house, I await you with much anticipation.

More details will be released soon. Book your holidays now.

Accomodation will be availbale for all sangatan.

Sevadaars:

Bhai Kamaljit Singh : 0797 1185457

Bhai Amrik Singh: 01274 407670

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Pyare jio, The 4th Annual leeds & bradford Sikh youth Camp will be held on 11th-12th October. It will be held at Singh Sabha, Grant street, Bradford. The day will start from 9am to 6pm. This years camp has beeen completely reformatted, so those who have attended all the previous camps, will still find something new.

A benti to the sangat to let all freinds and relatives know aswell. It is open to youth from & years old to 16 years plus. It is organised by the youth for the youth.

"To teach someone Gursikhi is to touch their life forever."

All details, application forms, and poster are on the official website - http://www.sikhyouthcamp.com

also pictures from last years camp!

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

i got this e-mail from someone.. i coudn't exactly answer his question in full form.. :D instead it got me confused too...

sadhsanagt ji.. help me out by giving you opinion on this pls... :

" I would like to ask you a question if you dont mind, i went to a gurdwara in west london in the uk, there was a akhand paath there and , one thing i saw out of place was that along side the paati some body was reading jap ji sahaib non stop , i ask y thats was but people couldnt give me a stright answer,i was told that it makes up for the mistakes the paati makes but i assumed that would be asked for in the addarss. i asked a number of people but nobody could give me a satisfactory answer. so could you explain to me to the best of your knowledge why this is done thats way

the akand paath came to an end and arttee was carried out, i never saw this carried out before , but a few friends of mine

who are ni hung singhs were there carring out the arrtee, artte was done through kirtan and than towards the end they had a bell and a dhaall with candels on and were waving it in the fashion that hindus carry out arrtee , and than flowers were thrown on to the Guru Granth Sahib,

i asked people about arrtee and i was told it was not a done thing in gurdwaras, but its carried out at haazoor sahib, but its under hindu inflence, because people would go bak into hindu rituals, but i was told that arrtee or arrtaa is carried out through kirtan but not through the dhaall waving , , i have asked a number of people who have knowlegde of sikhism but i would like your opion on that if possible ."

please post your feedback.. thankyou..

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

" I would like to ask you a question if you dont mind, i went to a gurdwara in west london in the uk, there was a akhand paath there and , one thing i saw out of place was that along side the paati some body was reading jap ji sahaib non stop , i ask y thats was but people couldnt give me a stright answer,i was told that it makes up for the mistakes the paati makes but i assumed that would be asked for in the addarss

Think logically... If there is akhand paath going on would we start doing kirtan to make up for the mistakes. Afterall kirtan is gurbani, just like japji sahib. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with doing japji sahib, but in Gurus Darbar, where there is SaadhSangat present, there should only be one thing doen at once. Mistakes should be avioded whilst reading Bani, but mistakes are bound to be made seen as we live in a kaljugee world. But like everything, at the end of doing akhand paath we should ask for forgiveness for any mistakes. If JapJi Sahib is done in silent, who will benefit, the person doing the paath, not the person doing akhand paath. Mstakes are not made up this way. Also if akhand paath is being done, and at the same time JapJi Sahib or any other bani is being read, how are the sangat suppose to concentrate on what is being read?

According to the Akaal Rehit Marayada:

THE CODE OF SIKH CONDUCT AND CONVENTIONS

CHAPTER-VI

Taking Hukam* (Command)

Article VII

b. In the course of the congregational sessions, only one thing should be done at a time : performing of kirtan, delivering of discourse, interpretative elaboration of the scriptures, or reading of the scriptures

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!