Inder Singh

But in this thread no-one has questioned Sahib Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji or Dasam Granth, just maryada was questioned. Is it still righteous to raise the sword? - we are 2% of the world population, shall we raise the sword on the other 98% that doesn't agree with us? - or better still, lets raise it on the other 1.8% of us which are lost and mis-guided, that'll fix the problem! I don't understand what people are bragging about - what's the worst that can be done? You'll beat each other up? Break a few bones? Kill one another? - aaho that's how you'll wash your sins and help you fellow human being/sikh veer wash theirs. Plus, these kind of hollow threats don't scare off everyone.. some people have no fear of expressing their views, and they don't need to advertise it. Jadon guru da danda varna ah, koi awaaj nahi auni. Anyhow, I won't hijack this thread any longer. I'm sorry I just had to get that out of my system. Gurfateh. So you have abandoned that thread and come here. It is you who was doubting Dasam granth sahib in the otehr thread. Here you are stating something else. Both granths are from our Guru sahibs and hence no violation of maryada

Khalistan_ z is one of the most behaved singhs i have seen on this forum. His stance on Dasam granth should not be taken as an affront towards AKJ. AKJ itself a staunch supporter of Dasam Granth.

I read that purewal was a factory worker in Canada and has no knowledge about astronomy at all.How come this man could devise a calender?

You do not seem to be a singh to me . You have been given answers by so many to your query. Do not you see those. You are here for mischief and moderators need to nip that mischief.

You claim to be a follower of AKJ. They are brave gursikhs as they sing bani of dasam pita and have sacrificed always for panth. Instead of posing questions here why do not you go there and resolve with them. Are you sacred?

When people fall short of constructive reasong all that they have is to forward a repeated crap time and again MOD: you need to exercise control now. But please do not delete the thread.

You know nothing about sikh traditions. Visit takhats to know tradiitons. At Takhats main podium is for weapons.May be a fool may appear in future and start saying why these weapons are there. Already opponents of Dasam Granth are disowning weapons also.

Is that Bhai Ram Singh Ji of DDT (who split from Baba Harnam Singh of Mehta) visiting in England? By the way, what do you think of parkash as it is done at Hazur Sahib? parkash of Dasam granth is not new.It was in parkash at akal takhat also till 1944 when its parkash was lifted by SGPC.Before that there was akhand path of Dasam Granth at akal atkhat.Mohan singh Nagoke was president of akali dala nd SGPC that time. May be we are paying the price now for lifting the parkash..

Persons like you deserve no reply as they do not understand gentelman's language.Had you been so brave you would have dared to stop the parkash and taste the answer.

It is a famous picture by a world famous austrian painter and was in collection of Maharan Bhambha, daughter of Dalip singh. Nobody doubts that.People who doubt may disown their praents also in their life at some point doubting whether they were born from them. The Seeks And Their College At Patna - Sir Charles Wilkins (1781 AD) The Seeks And Their College At Patna By Sir Charles Wilkins (1781) I found the College1 of the Seeks, situated in one of the narrow streets of Patna, at no very considerable distance from the Custom-house. I was permitted to enter the outward gate, but, as soon as I came to the steps which led into the Chapel, or public-hall, I was civilly accosted by two of the Society. I asked them if I might ascend into the hall. They said it was a place of worship open to me and to all men; but at the same time, intimated that I must take off my shoes. As I consider this ceremony in the same light as uncovering my head upon entering any of our temples dedicated to the Deity, I did not hesitate to comply, and I was then politely conducted into the hall and seated upon a carpet, in the midst of the assembly, which was so numerous as almost to fill the room. The whole building2 forms a square of about forty feet, raised from the ground about six or eight steps. The hall is in the centre, divided from four other apartments by wooden arches upon pillars of the same materials, all neatly carved. The room is rather longer than it is broad. The floor was covered with a neat carpet, and furnished with six or seven desks, on which stood as many of the books of their law; and the walls, above the arches, were hung with European looking glasses in gold frames, arid pictures of Mussulman Princes, and Hindoo Deities. A little room, which, as you enter, is situated at the left hand end of the hall is the chancel, and is furnished with an altar covered with a cloth of gold, upon which was laid a round black shield over a long broad sword, and, on either side, a chowry of peacock feathers mounted in silver handle. The altar was raised a little above the ground in a declining position. Before it stood a low kind of throne plated with silver; but rather too small to be useful; above it were several flower pots and rose-water bottles, and on the left hand stood three Urns which appeared to be copper, furnished with notches to receive the donations of the, charitable. There stood also near the altar, on a low desk, a great book3 of folio size, from which some portions are daily read in their divine service. It was covered with a blue mantle, on which were painted, in silver letters, some select passage of their law. After I had a long conversation with two of the congregation, who had politely seated themselves, on each side of me, on the carpet, and whom I found very intelligent, notice was given that it was noon and the hour of divine service. The congregation arranged themselves upon the carpet, on each side of the hall, so as to leave a space before the altar from end to end. The great book, desk, and all, was brought, with some little ceremony from the altar; and placed at the opposite extremity of the hall. An old man, with a reverend silver beard, kneeled down before the desk with his face towards the altar; and on one side of him sat a man with a small drum, and two or three with cymbals. The book was now opened, and the old man began to chant to the tune of the drums and the cymbals; and at the conclusion of every verse, most of the congregation joined chorus in a response, with countenances exhibiting great marks of joy. Their tones were by no means harsh; and the time was quick; and I learnt that the subject was a Hymn in praise of the Unity, the Omnipresence, and the Omnipotence of the Deity. I was singularly delighted with the gestures of the old man; I never saw a countenance so expressive of infelt joy, whilst he turned about from one to another, as it were, bespeaking their assents to those truths which his very soul seemed to be engaged in chanting forth. The Hymn being concluded, which consisted of about twenty verses, the whole congregation got up and presented their faces with joined hands towards the altar, in the attitude of prayer. A young man stood forth, and, with a loud voice and distinct accent, solemnly pronounced a long prayer or kind of liturgy, at certain periods of which all the people joined in a general response, saying Wa Gooroo.4 They prayed against temptation; for grace to do good; and for the general good of mankind; and a particular blessing to the Seeks; and for the safety of those who at that time were on their travels. This prayer was followed by a short blessing from the old man, and an invitation to the assembly to partake of a friendly feast. The book was then closed and restored to its place at the altar, and the people being seated as before, two men entered bearing a large iron caldron called curray5, just taken from the fire, and placed it in the centre of the hall upon a low stool. These were followed by others with five or six dishes, some of which were of silver, and a large pile of leaves sewed together with fibres in the form of plates. One of these plates was given to each of the company with- out distinction, and the dishes being filled from the caldron, their contents were served out till everyone had got his share: myself was not forgotten; and, as I was resolved not to give them the smallest occasion for offence, I ate my portion. It was a kind of sweetmeat,6 of the consistence of soft brown sugar, composed of flour and sugar mixed up with clarified butter, which is called Ghee. Had not the Ghee been rancid, I should have relished better. We were next served with a few sugar plums; and here ended the feast and the ceremonies of the day. They told me the religious part of the ceremony was daily repeated five times. I now took my leave, inviting some of the principal men amongst them who were about to return to their own country through Banaris, to pay me a visit. In the course of the conversation I was engaged in with the two 'Seeks' before the service, I was able to gather the following circumstances. That the founder of their faith was called Naneek Sah, who flourished about four7 hundred years ago at Punjab, and who, before his apostasy, was a Hindoo of the Kshetry or military tribe; and that his body disappeared as the Hindoos and Mussulman were disputing for it, for upon their removing the cloth that covered it, it was gone. That he left behind him a book, composed by himself,8 in verse and the language of Punjab, but a character partly of his own invention,9 which teaches the doctrines of the faith he had established. That they called ie. this character, in honour of their founder,Gooroo-Mookhee: from the mouth of the preceptor. That this book, of which that standing near the altar, and several others in the hall, were copies, teaches that there is but one God, Omnipotent and Omnipresent, ' filling all space and pervading all matter: and that He is to be worshiped and invoked. That there will be day of retribution, when virtue will be rewarded and vice punished (I forgot to ask in what manner); that it not only commands universal toleration, but forbids murder, theft, and such other deeds as are, by the majority of the mankind, esteemed crimes against society; and inculcates the practice of all the virtues, but particularly universal philanthropy, and a general hospitality to strangers and travellers. This is all my short visit would permit me to learn of this book. It is a folio volume, containing about four or five hundred pages. They told me further, that some years after this book of Noneek Sah had been promulgated, another10 made its appearance, now held in almost as much esteem as the former. The name of the author has escaped my memory; but they favoured me with an extract from the book itself in praise of the Deity. The passage had struck my ear on my first entering the hall when the students were all engaged in reading. From the similarity of the language to theHindoovee11, and many Sanscrit words, I was able to understand a good deal of it, and I hope, at some future period, to have the honour of laying a translation of it before the Society. They told me I might have copies of both their books, if I would be at the expense of transcribing them. I next enquired why they were called Seeks, and they told me it was a word borrowed from one of the commandments of the founder which signifies "Learn thou"; and it was adopted to distinguish the sect soon after he disappeared. The word, as is well known, has the same import in the Hindoovee. I asked them what were the ceremonies used in admitting a proselyte. A person having shown a sincere inclination to renounce his former opinions, to any five or more Seeks assembled together, in any place, as well on the highway as in a house of worship, they send to first shop where sweetmeats are sold and procure a small quantity of a particular sort which is very common, and as I recollect, they call Batasa, and having diluted it in pure water, they sprinkle some of it on the body, and into the eyes of the: convert, whilst one of the best instructed repeats to him in any languages with which he is conversant the chief cannons of their faith, exacting from him a solemn promise to abide by them the rest of his life. This is the whole of the ceremony. The new convert may then choose a Gooroo,12 or preceptor, to teach him in the language of their scripture, who first gives him the alphabet to learn, and so leads him on, by slow degrees, until he wants no further inscription. They offered to admit me into their Society; but declined the honor; contenting myself with the alphabet which they told me to guard as the apple of my eye, as it was a sacred character. I find it differs but little from the Dewnagur13. The number, order and powers of the letters are exactly the same. The language itself is a mixture of Persian, Arabic and some Sanscrit, grafted upon the provincial dialect of Punjab, which is a kind of Hindoovee, or, as it is vulgarly called by us, moors. The Gurdwara Harmandir Sahib, called Takht Patna Sahib, the birth place of Guru Gobind Singh. The Guru was born here on Poh Sudi 7, 1723 Bikrami, December 22, 1666 A.D., during the reign of Emperor Aurangzeb. The description given by Charles Wilkins is of the old building of the Gurdwara which does not exist at present. It was burnt, I was told during my stay there in 1933, somewhere in the beginning of the nineteenth century, and the present building was erected by Maharaja Ranjit Singh and other Sikh chiefs and Sardars, During the earthquake of January 1934 the buildings of the Gurdwara were rudely shaken and some of them fell to the ground. But, strangely enough, no serious harm was done to the Gurdwara proper. The Sikh Community has taken in hand the reconstruction of the demolished portions and the northern side has now been completed with the funds raised by the Chief Khalsa Dewan, Amritsar, and other institutions and Sangats. Guru Granth Sahib, the sacred scripture of the Sikhs Wahiguru, God; also translated as 'Glory to thee, O Lord !' Karahi. Karah Prasad. This should be 'about three hundred to two hundred fifty years'. Guru Nanak. the founder of the Sikh religion, lived from 1469 to 1539 A.D. Here Wilkins evidently refers to the Guru Grantha Sahib. The whole of it was not composed by Guru Nanak. In addition to the compositions of the Gurus, first to the fifth and the nineth (with a Shaloka of the tenth Guru, as is commonly believed), it embodies the compositions of several other saints, Muslims and Hindus, and even Sudras, of both sexes. This view held by the Sikhs as early as 1781, when Wilkins visited Patna, lends further support to those who hold that Gurmukhi characters were invented. or perfected in their present forms, by Guru Nanak himself and not by Guru Anged, the Second Guru. Evidently, the Dasam Granth, also called the Daswin Padshahi da Granth Hindi, Devnagri The word Gooroo (Guru) here is used in the sense of Ustad or teacher. The Devnagri, Hindi or Sanskrit: characters AUTHOR'S PREFATORY LETTER The Secretary to the Asiatick Society Sir, Before I left 'Calcutta', gentleman, with whom I chanced to be conversing of the sect of people who are distinguished from the worshippers of 'Brahm' and the followers of Mahommed by the appellation Seek, informed me that there was a considerable number of them settled in the city of 'Patna', where they had a College for teaching the tenets of their philosophy. As 'Patna' was in my way to 'Banaris', I no sooner arrived there than I enquired after the College, and I was presently conducted to it ; and I now request you will please lay before the Society the few observations and enquiries which a single visit of about two hours could admit of my making. If such as they are they should hereafter be found useful either as a clue to guide another in his researches in the same path, or to add to some future account to render it more complete, my end in troubling you to lay it before the Society is fully answered. I have the honour to subscribe myself, Sir, Your most obedient humble servant, Charles Wilkins. Banaris, 1st March, 1781

Seeks and Their College at Patna by Sir Charles Wilkins - Dr Ganda Singh Review Seeks and Their College at Patna by Sir Charles Wilkins Dr. Ganda Singh Sir Charles Wilkins, the writer of the following observations on The Sikhs and their College at Patna as an eminent orientalist of his times (1749 or 1750-1836). He was the son of the famous Walter Wilkins and was born in 1749 or 1750. At the age of about twenty-one he arrived in Bengal in 1770 as a writer in the East India Company's service. Like most of the Englishmen of those days, he was highly interested in the study of oriental languages. He devoted his leisure hours to the study of Sanskrit and was the first Englishman to acquire a thorough knowledge of that language and published a grammar of it in 1779. Under the patronage of the then Governor General. Warren Hastings, he translated the Hindu religio-philosophical work, the Bhagavad-Gita and deciphered many Sanskrit inscriptions. He himself prepared the first Bengali and Persian types and set up a printing-press at Calcutta for the oriental languages. He was the right hand of Sir William Jones of revered memory in founding the Asiatic Society of Bengal (later the Royal Asiatic Society of Bengal), now the Asiatic Society at Calcutta and establishing the well-known series of the Asiatic Researches. After sixteen years' stay in India he returned to England in 1786 and published his translations of the Sanskrit book of fables, the Hitopdesha, and of Kalidas's drama Shakuntala. In 1800 he was made the custodian of the vast collection of oriental manuscripts taken away from the library of Tipu Sultan at Seringapatam, and he was the first Librarian of the India House Library, London. He was also a scholar of Islamic literature and, in 1806, he edited Richardsons' Persian and Arabic Dictionary which speaks so highly of the depth of Wilkin's learning. Two years later in 1808 he produced another Sanskrit Grammer which was a greatly an improved, or rather a re-written, edition of his first work on the subject. In addition to these works he wrote a large number of valuable papers on Indian subjects which created a good deal of interest in England about the people of this country For his deep scholarship and services to the cause of literature, the University of Oxford conferred upon him the degree of the Doctor of Civil Law (D. C. L.), and the Royal Asiatic Society of Literature gave him their medal as "Princeps Literature Sanskrita," and he was elected as an Associate of the French Institute. He was also an LL. D. (Legum Doctor=Doctor of Laws) and an F. R. S. (Fellow of the Royal Society). King George IV was pleased to Knight him in 1833 and give him the badge of the Guelphic Order. Three years later, Sir Charles Wilkins died on May 13, 1836, laden with honours and international fame as a pioneer scholar of oriental literature. These observations of Sir Charles on the 'Sikhs and their College at Patna' were written for the Asiatic Society from Benares on March 1. 1781, after he had paid a visit to the Sikh temple Takht-Sahib (popularly known as Harmandir Sahib), the birth-place of Guru Gobind Singh, on his way to that city, and were published in the Asiatick Researches or Transactions of the Society, 1788. This is the first known account of the Sikh institutions written by an Englishman, the only other accounts in English of any importance written before this being from the pen of a French-Swiss gentleman Major (afterwards Colonel) Antonie Louis Henri Polier (1741-1795) written in 1780 as a memoir, and in 1776 in his letter of May 22 from Delhi to Colonel Ironside at Belgram. I consider these observations of the learned writer interesting and worthy of the attention of the students of history and religion, and this is my only apology for placing them before the readers after the lapse of over a century and a half. It appears that like most of the other Sikh temples in the country in those days, the Patna temple also was running a flourishing Pathshala under the guidance of the priests. It is, perhaps, therefore, that he calls the temple a 'College'. There may be another reason also. The Schools and Colleges were then called Dharamshalas or Pathshalas. The Gentleman with whom Wilkins happened to be conversing about the Sikhs might have called the temple a Sikh Dharamshala, as the Sikh temples are so often called. This might also have led Wilkins to suppose that it was a Sikh College. It is most gratifying to find that the views of the Sikhs in respect of their temples were as modern in the eighteenth century as men of twentieth century are expected to hold. Every man of whatever caste or creed was allowed to enter them. When Wilkins asked the Sikhs present there "if I might ascend into the hall. They said it was a place of worship open to me and to all men". There were no restrictions on the admission of anyone into the Sikh brotherhood, if he were willing to be initiated into it. Wilkins tells us that they offered to admit him into it. While editing I have made no changes whatever in the original and have also retained the old original spellings, however queer they may appear today. Wherever necessary, I have given my explanations in the footnotes. Dr Ganda Singh Khalsa College, Amritsar December 31, 1939 Source: Early European Accounts of the Sikhs, Dr Ganda Singh

Maharaja Ranjit Singh listening to the two sacred Granths being recited near Sri Harimandir Sahib. (A Painting by August Theodore Schoefft (1809-1888), made in Amritsar. From Princess Bamba Collection) Note: The following is an excerpt from a book, Sketch of the Sikhs, a singular nation in the province of Penjab,written by Sir John Malcolm* in 1812. John Malcolm's work is one of the rarest firsthand information recorded by a western historian on the lifestyle, belief systems and traditions of the Sikhs in Punjab during the 18th century . Guru-mata When Gurmata or great national council, is called, (as it always is, or ought to be, when any imminent danger threatens the country, or any large expedition is to be undertaken) all the Sikh chiefs assemble at Amritsar. The assembly, which is called the Guru-mata, is convened by the Acalis; and when the chiefs meet upon this solemn occasion, it is concluded that all private animosities cease, and that every main sacrifices his personal feelings at the shrine of the general good; and, actuated by principles of pure patriotism, thinks of nothing but the interests of the religion, and commonwealth, to which he belongs. When the chiefs and principal leaders are seated, the Adi-Granth and Dasama Padshah ka Granth are placed before them. They all bend their heads before these scriptures, and exclaim, Wa! Guruji ka Khalsa! Wa! Guruji ki Fateh! A great quantity of cakes, made of wheat, butter, and sugar, are then placed before the volumes of their sacred writings, and covered with a cloth. These holy cakes, which are in commemoration of the injunction of Nanac, to eat and to give to others to eat, next receive the salutation of the assembly, who then rise, and the Acalis pray aloud, while the musicians play. The Acalis, then the prayers are finished, desire the council to be seated. They sit down, and the cakes being uncovered, are eaten of by all classes of Sikhs: those distinctions of original tribes, which are, on occasions, kept up, being on this occasion laid aside, in token of their general and complete union in one cause. The Acalis then exclaim: "Sirdars! (Chiefs) this is Guru-mata!" on which prayers are again said aloud. The chiefs, after this sit closer, and say to each other: "The sacred Granth is betwixt us, let us swear by our scripture to forget all internal disputes, and to be united." This moment of religious fervor and ardent patriotism, is taken to reconcile all animosities. They then proceed to consider the danger with whcih they are threatened, to settle the best plans for averting it, and to choose the generals who are to lead their armies against the common enemy. The first Guru-mata was assembled by Guru Govinid; and the latest was called in 1805, when the British army pursued Holkar into the Penjab. (pages. 120-123) ________________________ *Sir John Malcolm (May 2, 1769 ‑ 1833) was a Scottish soldier, statesman, and historian. He held various distinguished posts, being Ambassador to Persia, Resident of Gwalior (1803-1804) and Governor of Bombay 1827-1830. He was the author of several valuable works regarded as authorities, viz., Sketch of the Sikhs, a singular nation in the province of Penjab (1812), A History of Persia (1815), Memoir of Central India(1823), Political History of India from 1784 to 1823 (1826), and Life of Lord Clive (1836) --------------------------------------- Not only that when khalsa fauj was at war front both granths were with them in battle field with special forces protecting them.This is noted by a persina writer in ibaratnama.

Why so allergic? Is it not bani of tenth master? If so then what is wrong? Did bhai mani singh ji not compile Dasam granth and SGGS ji as one granth? Of course he did. Then what is the problem.

AKJ USA and akj canada are fully supporters of Dasam bani in letter and spirit.They are one with Damdami taksal and are the main driving force for dasam bani.Panthic weekly is of AKJ. Those who denounce dasam bani are no more AKJ as they are flouting directions of sikh panth and Bhai Sahib Randhir singh ji. Carry on the crusade to expose them and sangat will be with you.

Dasam Bani is life line of khalsa that infuses spirit among khalsa. Those who oppose this bani are no more sikhs. They are followers of another sect.

Ragi Darshan singh was brought by his babbar touts to gurudwara in Hamburg where this dusht rejected Nitnem banis.This tape will come on when you open sikhsangat.org Here is the lover of babbars , ragi darshan spewing venom on dasam bani http://www.panthic.org/articles/5177 They are no more entitled to be called jathas after that.They are dead corpses who will vanish in due course of timea s they have lost sikh spirit. It is under smaller canopy and is in agreementwith sikh tradiitons prevalent during Dal khalsa, misl , sikh rule period.It will happen again. Let us see who stops it.

Phoney babbars of Germany who are from AKJ also oppose Dasam Granth sahib. These babbars called Darshan ragi last year and honored him.They were babbars when they read dasam bani and now they have become Gidders. Akj derive its name from Bhai Sahib Bhai randhir singh ji. If splinter groups do not follow sikh practices they ahev no right to be called AKJ. AKJ USA and AKJ Canada are 100 percent supporters of Dasam bani.They sing dasam bani extensively in their rehansubahis.They are doing maximum to propagate dasam bani more than anyone else.They consider whole dasam granth as mukhvak patshahi10. We will prakash dasam granth in seminars in future. Those who disobey bani of dasam pita they should get out of panth.

Bloom ji Welcome back to the forum. We were missing you.

Please name the writings of Guru sahibs which you think is not recognized. Mere making a statement means nothing. I stand by my statement. All banis of dasam granth have input from dasam Pita. If there is any granth that attacks barahminism it is dasam Granth.Bh force never said what you are trying to say here in a concealed way. Nihung singh has made thr right statement. There is a Hukamnama from akal takhat also terming those who doubt Dasam Granth as Mischoief mongers.Their real aim is to indulge in propaganda against granth of kahlsa. This is complete nonsense. Have you seen kartapuri beer. if so tell us how it looks. If not then your staement is aime at spredaing misinformation.

Is zafarnama not a composition of dashamesh pita? Of course it is.Then why should not it be added. I may ask in the same way why Guru teg bahadar's bani was added?

Major section of krishna avtar that describes war part is not found in Dasam Skanad at all. It is completely new and totally composed by Guru Gobind singh ji. So those lines are not to be taken literal.

All banis, repeat all banis, have input from Dasam Pita.What made you to say even if one bani? You need to do a lot of home work before asking such questions as you will not be able learn everything from internet forums.

This is a sharabi kabaabi jathedar ragi darshan singh http://www.panthic.org/articles/5193 RAGI DARSHAN SINGH - A TRAITOR AMIDST THE SIKHS PANTHIC.ORG Published on December 25, 2009 seems controversy is not anything new for Darshan Singh, the heretic Ragi, who was recently declared a 'Guru-Nindak' and a 'Tankhaiya' by Sri Akal Takht Sahib, for disobeying the authority of the Supreme Seat of Sikhism. Evidence has surfaced that more than two decades ago, two major freedom fighting organizations, Bhindranwala Tigers Force, and Babbar Khalsa International were suspicious of the heretic Ragi Darshan Singh, and acknowledged that he was unfit to serve as the Jathedar of Sri Akal Takht Sahib during those turbulent times. Many have suspected that was Ragi a mole working for the Government agencies, installed to actively derail and torpedo the Khalistan movement in the late 1980s. New evidence and suspicions raised by prominent Sikh leaders of the past seem to validate this notion. Ragi Darshan Singh was installed by the Tohra led Shiromani Gurdwara Parbandhak Committee (SGPC) in late 1986. Although Baba Gurbachan Singh Manochahal was also declared Jathedar of Sri Akal Takht Sahib by a section of the Khalistan freedom fighters, he later resigned for the sake of Panthic unity. Little did he know about the treachery that was unfolding under the leadership of his successor. The Chandigarh Tribune narrates this shifting of power at the Sikh Takhts in their July 13th, 2002 editorial interestingly titled 'Misdeeds' of stalwarts during militancy. The Tribune editor notes: "The SGPC under Mr Tohra had sacked the head granthi of Darbara Sahib and secured and accepted the resignation of Giani Kirpal Singh and secured and accepted the resignation of Giani Kirpal Singh as Jathedar Akal Takht. On December 31 (1986), Bhai Darshan Singh Raagi joined as jathedar. On January 23, 1987, the three head priests had also been dismissed and in their place, Giani Puran Singh, Giani Savinder Singh, Giani Jaswant Singh and Giani Kashmir Singh were appointed as high priests. The 'Sarbat khalsa' held on January 26, 1987, approved the resolution of April 29 for Khalistan and also the recent appointments of the high priests. In a recorded message of Gurbachan Singh Manochahal played to the gathering he resigned from the post of Jathedar, Akal Takht, to accommodate Bhai Darshan Singh in the larger interest of the Panth." (July 13, 2002 , Tribune India) Softening the Target : Ragi Darshan Singh and Shushil Muni Furthermore, the former Joint Director of India's Intelligence Bureau, Maloy Krishna Dhar, in his memoirs, states: "He (Rajiv Gandhi) has already played the peace card through Ragi Darshan Singh and a Jain preacher Sushil Muni…" (Open Secrets – India's Intelligence Unveiled, Maloy Krishna Dhar, Manas Publications -2005) Perhaps, one of the strongest criticisms, and serious allegations leveled against the Ragi came from Baba Gurbachan Singh Manochahal. Baba Manochahal was the head of the Bhindranwala Tigers Force (BTF), and a key member of the Panthic Committee, at that time period. Ragi addressing the 'Sikh Convention' on August 4th, 1987, an event that would be the catalyst for derailing the Khalistan Movement During a convention held at the Sri Darbar Sahib complex at the Teja Singh Samundri Hall on August 4th, 1987, a statement was read by Baba Manochahal's representative, Bhai Daya Singh Chohla, that chided the Ragi along with the rest of the 'Singh Sahibans' for backtracking on their previous pledge to lead the struggle for the liberation of the Sikh Homeland – Khalistan. The convention was called by the Takht Jathedars under the pretext that this assembly would 'define' the goals and objectives of the Sikh cause. Baba Manochahal and others openly questioned the need to define the Panth's goals and objectives when the Sarbat Khalsa had already done so. Baba Manochahal argued that the goal for the establishment of an independent Sikh Homeland, Khalistan had already been declared in 1984 and further ratified by the Sarbat Khalsa in 1986. The contovercial convention, organized by Ragi Darshan Singh, was attended by Takht Jathedars Giani Kashmir Singh, Giani Sawinder Singh, Giani Jaswant Singh, and many prominent Sikh politicians and personalities of that time. Khalistan no longer a goal At the gathering it was declared by the Ragi that the Sikh nation's goal was not an independent and separate homeland of Khalistan. Instead, the Sikhs should strive for a more more autonomy in India as promised by Pandit Nehru during the partition. The Sikhs no longer needed to fight an armed struggle declared the Ragi, self-governance and autonomy could only be gained through dialogue and votes. Chaos prevailed throughout at the convention, but this did not distract the Ragi from his task. This was perhaps the first direct attempt to derail the Khalistan struggle at the public level, and an insult to the declarations passed by the Sarbat Khalsa in 1986. Bhai Daya Singh of Chohla Sahib, an associate of Baba Gurbachan Singh Manochahal (BTF) Bhai Daya Singh of Chohla Sahib, an associate of Baba Gurbachan Singh Manochahal at that time delivered a fiery message from BTF's Jathedar, and directly alleged that the Singh Sahibans were working hand-in-hand with the Indian Government to mislead Sikh community and divide the Sikh Freedom Fighters. In the message read by Bhai Daya Singh, Baba Manochahal warned, such underhanded tactics would not be allowed to succeed by the Sikh Nation. Message from Shaheed Baba Gurbachan Singh Manochahal - read by BTF Deputy Bhai Daya Singh: (click to listen) View full text of Baba Manochahal's Warning to Ragi Darshan Singh Some of main points and questions raised by Baba Manochahal to the Singh Sahibans were as follows: Has the Panth actually been fighting without an real objective/goal for the last five years? Since 1984, the struggle for Khalistan was lauched when the Indian Government attacked Sri Dabar Sahib. This is according to the words of Sant Jarnail Singh Ji Bhindranwale. All Sikh Jujharoo (freedom fighting) organizations are struggling for the establishment of Khalistan. What objective are you trying to define? Does this Sikh Convention want to put the Sikh Nation at the mercy of those so-called Sikh leaders who assisted the Government in the assault on Sri Darbar Sahib, Sri Akal Takht Sahib, and the destruction of hundreds of Saroops (of Guru Granth Sahib Ji), and the elimination of thousands of Singhs, Bibis, and children? Singh Sahibs, we smell the stench that you have joined the Center, who is all too eager to appease the Jujharoo Singhs on the basis of Sri Anandpur Sahib Resolutions. You are now speaking of defining goals, if you still have not understood the goals of the Panth, then what else can the Panth expect from you? Singh Sahibs, time will expose the truth. Is it not your intention at this program to weaken the resolve of the Sikh organizations fighting for Khalistan, and create chaos in the Sikh community? Do you still have faith in the Indian Government? The same government that is actively destroying and eliminating Sikh institutions, the Sikh identity, and Sikh culture? If you still have faith in such a Government, then there is no one who is in a dark pit than you, regardless of how high your current position is. All Sikhs respect Sri Akal Takht Sahib, and the positions of the Singh Sahibans, but no one will be allowed to become a government stooge while holding such a respectable position. It needs to be made clear that only those Singhs can serve the Panth that are ready and willing to sacrifice everything for the sake of the Panth. Regardless of the strong opposition by Baba Manochahal and other Jujharoo Singhs, the Ragi and the convention organizers passed resolution that would attempt to derail the Khalistan struggle by redefining it as simply a movement for further autonomy for Punjabis in the current Indian framework. The next day Punjabi papers eagerly flashed the redefined objective by the Jathdars all over the front-pages. It seemed like the first steps of the Government planned coup to hijack the Sikh Freedom struggle from the Jujharoo organizations had been successfully accomplished – thanks to the Ragi, and his SGPC cohorts. Front page of Ajit on the Ragi organized 'Sikh convention' "ਸਿੱਖ ਕਨਵੈਨਸ਼ਨ ਦੇ ਪ੍ਰਸਤਾਵ" "ਸਿੱਖ ਪੰਥ ਭਾਰਤ 'ਚ ਅਜ਼ਾਦੀ ਨਾਲ ਰਹਿ ਸਕਣ ਵਾਲੇ ਖਿਤੇ ਦੀ ਪ੍ਰਾਪਤੀ ਲਈ ਸੰਘਰਸ਼ ਕਰੇਗਾ" "ਖਾਲਿਸਤਾਨ ਦੇ ਮਾਮਲੇ ਤੇ ਮਤਭੇਦ - ਅਜ ਹਥਿਆਰ ਨਹੀਂ ਵਿਚਾਰ ਕਾਰਗਰ : ਸਿੰਘ ਸਾਹਿਬ" "Resolutions of the Sikh Convention" "Sikh Panth will struggle for the region inside India where they can have automony." "Disagreement over the issue of Khalistan – Diplomacy more effective than Weapons: Singh Sahib" (Translation of Ajit newspaper headlines from August 5th, 1997) In a seperate audio, Baba Gurbachan Singh Mahochahal shared his views on the treachary by the Ragi his predecessors. Voice of Shaheed Baba Gurbachan Singh Manochahal: (click to listen) "The Ragi backtracked on his promise to uphold the resolutions on Khalistan, and has walked away from his duty. The Kharkoo Singhs put their trust in him, but he failed them. The Jathedar of Sri Akal Takht Sahib not be a person controlled by the Government." - Shaheed Baba Gurbachan Singh Manochahal Bhai Daya Singh was later killed by the Indian forces near the village Jandiala Guru. Many members of Bhai Daya Singh were also killed in the coming months. Baba Gurbachan Singh Monchahal was killed in February 1993. News report of Bhai Daya Sinh's Shaheedee Babbar Khalsa Deputy-Chief Dissociates from Ragi When it became clear that the Ragi was working in the interest of the central government, activists of the Babbar Khalsa International, who like other Jujharoo organizations had originally supported the Ragi in his early days at the Jathedar, also became suspicious of his activities. An incident narrated by Babbar Khalsa International Deputy-Chief Bhai Sulakhan Singh Babbar stands out. Bhai Sahib was the main liaison between the Jathedars and the BKI leadership. During the late 1980s, Bhai Sulakhan Singh had made a surprise visit to the residence where Ragi Darshan Singh was staying. Babbar Khalsa Deputy Chief Sulakhan Singh Babbar had chastised the Ragi for violating Sikh Maryada When Bhai Sulakhan Singh entered the Ragi's residence he discovered that the Ragi was in the middle of a meal that included objectionable items, including eggs and omlet. Being a Rahitvaan Singh Bhai Sulakhan Singh immediately scolded the Ragi for being an Akal Takht Jathedar and violating the Sikh code of conduct. The Ragi defended the consumption of meat and stated they were considered Jhatka and thus allowed by the Panth. Bhai Sulakhan Singh further scolded him for making up such excuses, and for betraying the sacred position of the Takht, and stated this would be the last time he and the BKI organization would communicate with him. Bhai Sulakhan Singh immediately left the Ragi's residence in disgust, and avowed that no members of BKI would ever keep any communications with Ragi or recognize him as a Jathedar since he had violated Sikh Rahit Maryada. Babbar Khalsa Singhs were known for their strict rahit, and would not allow anybody to enter the organization who was lax in the Sikh code of conduct. The organization believed that a Sikh who could not stay true to his Guru and His Rahit, would not stay true to the Sikh Nation and it's cause. Interestingly, over the years further information has come out about the offensive dietary habits and shady morals of the Ragi, including the consumption of alcohol. Now he is often referred to as a "ਸ਼ਰਾਬੀ-ਕਬਾਬੀ ਜਥੇਦਾਰ" due to such transgressions. One can only wonder how a man who had no commitment and devotion for the Panth, and lacked basic Rahit of Sikhi could hold such a position in the Sikh nation? There is no question that the Ragi was unfit to lead the Sikhs during those turbulent times. So why was a man who has no religious or Panthic loyalty installed at the Sikhs' apex Takht? Perhaps it was for a different cause - to undermine the Sikh leadership of that time, and create chaos in the masses. Isn't that what the Ragi is doing now? Undermining the Sikh leadership and creating chaos? While determined GurSikhs sacrificed their lives for the Panth at that time, selfish individuals such as Ragi used the opportunity to gain personal wealth and fame, and continue to cause harm to the Nation. It is due to the traitorous actions of such people that the Sikhs are in this current state. The echoes of the warnings given by the great Shaheeds Baba Gurbachan Singh Manochahal and Bhai Sulakhan Singh Babbar are as relevant as they were two decades ago. The question is - are we listening? Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Is this from Suraj Prakash, if so, what chapter and rut, etc.? Thanks. Dasam Granth is replete with reverence towards shashtars. It was anandpuri beer that as looted when Anadpur sahib came under moghals. It was later sold by a pathan to a sikh and is still held by a sikh family.

Only following compositions of Dasam Granth have base from Hindu puranas 1)Chandi charitra 2) Chaubis avtar Though the base stories are from Hindu texts yet they have been adapted to sikh philosophy as bhforce has explained.There are large sections that have been altered and new chapters added. What that gurnindak is saying is 100 percent lie.He is indulging in propaganda.He is a truck driver by profession and he knows hardly anything about such a complex writing. Yes, Dasam granth sahib was compiled during Guru sahib's time.That beer was called anandpuri beer.This video explains that. http://video.google....39760281135172#