abdus-salaam

So, umm, I'm lying to this board so I can ride over the hill and slaughter you? I'm not quite clear what you're even getting at here. Hopefully such a comparison sounds asinine even to you. For such a long message, you said very little, though, so it's hard to tell. I'm sorry I took Nanak's words about the unity of god and the unity of man beneath god as inspirational. Silly me, I guess I don't have the right to do that since I don't wear a turban and speak Punjabi. If you don't trust Muslims, that's your business I suppose. I've always thought the attitude "I was born into large heterogenous group A, we rule, but everyone in large heterogonous group B is bad" is kind of pointless, you know, kinda the attitude the Mughals had. You do know I'm not a Mughal and have nothing to do with them, right? I'm not even Desi. All the retarded little grudges over ancestral real estate battles you guys carry around mean nothing to me. It takes zero courage to stand up to anyone online. Ohhhh, UKgk managed to paranoicly be rude to me online, what a moral victory. Is that warrior spirit or something where you live? I'm fairly certain you'd never run your mouth to me if we met in real life, but that just is what that is. Anyway, thanks to everyone who has been helpful and answered questions/given resources on this site. I'm leaving anyway because I don't have time to deal with suspicious fools baselessly accusing me of perfidy and lying (to no apparent gain). I work hard for a living and while I make time to study truth as best I can, I don't have time or inclination to engage in internet polemics. So long, and thanks to most of you.

Would the curiculum at a Sikh school be different? Or would it just be a similar school, but for Sikhs?

Very cool. I'd like to know more about this guy.

Oh man...If Pakistani Muslims do believe some of the stuff on that list, well, that's sad. Unfortunately there are many conspiracy-minded Muslims who have all kinds of weird theries about Sikhs/Jews/Whoever. Of course, we are not alone in this (I've heard some bizarre stories about Muslims in both conversation and the American press) but admittedly, it's a bigger problem in our community than elsewhere. I found the "If is Sikh pulls out his kirpan he/she MUST use it" a bit humorous because most kirpans I've seen weren't made for combat and would be useless for cutting vegetables, let alone butchering someone. However, I do know some Sikhs carry functional knives, and honestly not pulling out a weapon if you don't intend to use it is a sound principle, martially speaking. When I have taught friends to shoot, I always emphatically say "Never point this gun at anyone you're not prepared to kill, and never show it off or wave it around." The Samurai who practiced Bushido had similar rules.

LimeyGuptKuar Well, I'm glad that you showed me that Sikhs can be as stupid and pig headed as Muslims. I could point out verses from your own sources where Nanak himself talks positively about Muslims, but why bother? Don't want me poking around if I'm tentative about joining your little club straight off? Great to know. Really, you're a credit to your faith.

And I already explained why it was a retarded thing to say in the first place. I looked at that site and I'm not going to go over it point by point (I'm here to learn about Sikhi, not to convert others to Islam), I spotted many misrepresentations, mis-attributions, and eye-rollers like "Muslims should consider themselves lucky to have such a beautiful path offered to them. It is for their own benefit to give up the incomplete and imperfect religion of Islam and adopt the Sikh way of life." But please do 'stand by' a statement that makes no sense and throw hatemongering propaganda my way. There's plenty like you in Islam, and I'm sure if you'd been born into Islam instead you'd be online saying how much Sikhi sucks. Yawn.

Singstah Have I argued with anyone here at any point? No. I asked for my own edification because, duh, I don't know. Paranoid much? I do like that I've come on here with sincere questions and already had a couple of members accuse me of lying and plotting. See, Sikhs I've met in real life don't act like this generally, so I wonder if you're the minority or if it's just an internet thing, where people get mouthier and irresponsible as they have less and less accountability. For all the Americans who have called me a towel-head, savage, etc online, it never happens when I'm out in public even in Islamic clothes. I doubt if I walked into a gurdwaara and asked these questions, people would be talking like you. Whatgives?

UGK Look, I do not claim to be an expert on what the Gurus transmitted, but I have been studying it. I guess according you that means...I should be a Sikh now or I'm a rejecter or....I've heard the same excuse from Muslims who want to scream at anyone investigating Islam who doesn't want to dive right into it without exploration. I have my doubts to what extent you have studied Islam, because I'm so used to Islam-bashing Christians going online with a few quotes they got from Robert Spencer's website and claiming to be experts on Qu'ran and hadith even when they confuse the two. I see differences and similarities, but am more interested in the smiliarities. I'm risking a lot tomorrow; After Jummah, I'm going on to tell the Mosque board, of which I'm a member, that I've come to believe in Nanak's message as I understand it, and ask them if they want me to keep serving. I'm pretty sure some, maybe most, will ask me to resign, and several brothers I'm close to may shun me after that. If I hadn't read any Gurbani, I don't think I'd take such a step, so please don't act like you have my number or something.

The same attitude is usually present in Muslims who talk trash on Sikhs. Every group has its "enlightened beings".

That's the ceremony whereby one becomes a Khalsa, right?

Peace I think this is probably more of a South-Asian cultural conflict than anything. While most Muslims, of course, view Islam as truth (as almost anyone does with their religion) I think the vast majority of non-Desi Muslims probably have no specific designs on Sikhs. I still believe in Muhammad's revelation but now I also believe in Guru Nanak's message; I would never try to convert you, I have enough to work out on my own If a non-Sikh reads Guru Nanak Dev ji's message (Gurmat meaning Guru ji's divine teaching) they will surely notice a vast difference in their own religious teachings. In my opinion you have not been reading Gurbani. In my opinion you don't know me or anything about me and you're making some odd assumptions. There are differences. There are also similarities. I'm glad that paranoid, accusatory, and chauvanistic attitudes aren't just present in the Muslim community. I'm glad to see that if I choose to keep exploring Sikhi, I can look forward to them here too. Makes my day.

Harmeet, Yeah, religion is not a gang/nationalist thing to me. I just want to make the most of this life and know god as much as possible, inshallah. Kharku And you as well.

That's interesting. I listen to Hip Hop but it's usually pretty conscious stuff, not gats and bling type of stuff, e.g. Dilated Peoples, Brother Ali, Lupe Fiasco, Blueprint, RJD2, etc etc. In Islam maybe half the ulema say no music, several more say nothing with strings, some say only Islamic singing, a significant minority say music is okay. I knew Sikhs used music but was not clear to what extent it was okay to listen to non-canon music.

Kharku Still figuring that out. I have heard wisdom from them as well and respect Gobind Singh as I respect all brave and principled warriors. Mehtab What does that mean? I don't know Punjabi. Harmeet, I am from San Diego but have lived all over the world. This happened in the Bay Area though. Don't ask me which gurdwara, I don't know :s

I was just young and dumb and liked to travel and get in trouble (still do sometimes, but I'm smarter about it now). I ended up in a situation where I was not like, homeless per se but low on money and without a permanent place to crash, and I discovered a Gurdwara by accident when I asked a Sikh in a turban what the signifigance of the stuff he was wearing. He invited me to come eat with them and I did and, um, yeah. That was it. But it wasn't til recently I was willing to unambiguously embrace Nanak as a messenger of God.

what is exactly sikh music in your eyes? i hope its not bhangra Haha, no, I just mean music that is not traditional to Sikhs, like, who listens to Hip Hop, techno, rock, whatever.

Not being Desi, I only know what I read in history books. I could never hate Sikhs; I was broke and in a transitory position when I was younger and the Sikhs reached out to me, fed me at the Gurdwaara, and treated me like a brother even though they didn't know me and made no attempt to convert me. I'd love to see all people of God, and all humanity, live in peace someday.

Hi I am just posting this out of curiosity; how many of you listen to non-Sikh music? I'm not trying to be disrespectful at all, I just want something to compare to Muslims and music.

Thank you for the advice. For whatever it's worth the train of Islamic thought I follow has relatively few rituals, pretty much just salaat, sawm, and hajj (though I know the last two are not seen as worthwhile in Sikhism).

Peace I think this is probably more of a South-Asian cultural conflict than anything. While most Muslims, of course, view Islam as truth (as almost anyone does with their religion) I think the vast majority of non-Desi Muslims probably have no specific designs on Sikhs. I still believe in Muhammad's revelation but now I also believe in Guru Nanak's message; I would never try to convert you, I have enough to work out on my own

Wa Alaykum Salaam Thanks for your responses. I recently found Robert Bly's translations of Kabir's poetry and have been reading them, they are very beautiful masha'allah. I also read the links and sections of SGGS and found it all very helpful, thank you all and god bless. You have my word, I am sincere and not out to convert Sikhs to Islam or cause trouble or anything like that; I'm a grown man, and don't engage in that kind of foolishness. Unfortunately I speak very little Arabic. I only speak English, Spanish and some Chinese.

I am a Muslim who has come to the conclusion that Guru Nanak was a messenger of God. I am not ready (at least now) to become a Sikh, so I would like to learn more about the Muslims who ( I have heard) lived with, followed, and even fought alongside the Gurus. If anyone could give me any information on this, or at least point me to it, it would be much appreciated; this will be a strange road at least for now, as many Muslims would consider this apostasy, and I'd like to know about others who have done it. I have also asked at a couple other Sikh sites and they have been helpful, and asked a couple of Sikh friends, but the more I can discover, the better.