besoft

After going through your reply, I think most of the doubts are over. Yes, I know Gurmukhi perfectly well and have read Teeka of Sahib singh ji. Faridkoti Teeka is slightly different. As suggested I have been able to get hold of the book...Hum Hindu Nahin. My sincerest Regards and thx. Namstang ji: There is no need of feeling any guilt on your head. I might have sounded harsh but we are not perfect human beings.I quote a 'tuk' of Farid ji. Keep it in mind while interacting with others as No one is wise and no one is fool.{Bani} Do not Break the Heart of anyone. These are all precious Jewels.{Farid ji} May Waheguru Forgive you.! Guru Rakha or Rab Rakha. See you soon in some other thread.

Respected Bijla Singh ji, You offer counter arguments to Kala Afgan but when some sikh asks you for clarifications you stop after your initial reaction only. This does not seems reasonable. Anyway, it is one's personal choice. [Ref; thread On Vedas] Kindly do not bother now. Regards.!

Respected Namstang ji, Pl. Carry on with your advise to sangat.Your language smells arrogance and not humility that is also to be practiced as edicted by SGGS. But please have your indulgences as we are all Guided by Satguru. Someday, you shall also be answerable for causing hinderances in the spread of sikhi. No wonder sikhs in Punjab are disillusioned. There are no one in Gurudwaras with whom can discuss and sort out your doubts. This is the only place that we can help one another and help the understanding of Sikhi. You have not been ,in any case, forced to reply.Chose those options that are in the overall interest and not your own. Yes, I had made a request to Mr. Bijla singh ji. The concerned line has been underlined also. It was not meant for you at all. That should satisfy you for the time being. What do you suggest.? Read Granth Sahib and remove doubts.!!!

Thank you Dear Bijla Singh ji for giving me space to express myself freely let us look again at the following: ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਨਾਦੰ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਵੇਦੰ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਰਹਿਆ ਸਮਾਈ ॥ If the Gurus words are wisdom of Vedas where is the question of discarding the Vedas. We always compare something that is above the thing that we are comparing or there should be reasonable level of appreciation in the thing cited for comparison. [e.g.If I am appreciating my dog,I shall always say that my dog is brave and is a tiger. I shall not say that the tiger is like my dog.] If we are comparing the Guru word with with the wisdom of Vedas, it stands to logic that Vedas are held in esteem. Panth might have rejected it for the reasons that I am not aware of but we follow the panthic approach. But we have the right to interpret the things and seek clarifications as to the things that seemingly are against some of the lines of bani. Hope you shall take in the spirit that I am just clearing my doubts and have full faith in Guru Vaaks. Kindly offer your advice so that I can reconcile things Also Kindly advise, if Simran is better than discussing things like this on forums. Thanks in anticipation.!

Have you read vedas in their entirety? I need not read them unless bani says so. I am just quoting form bani to understand as to why this approach has been adopted if Granth Sahib has held them in respect at more than one place. "The Holy Saints preach the teachings of the Vedas, but the unfortunate fools do not understand them. [717-7 todi, Mehl-5] How do we reconcile this statement and many others that may be posted, if required. Monkey/Hanuman is the subject matter of Ramayana and not Vedas.

Thanks for the above posts. I do find references in Granth sahib that clearly states the things that are in sync. with the Gurmat. Ofcourse, at many places things may not be so appreciatively stated.Let us have a look at the following. 1.The great men have studied the Shaastras, the Simritees and the Vedas, and they have said this:[215-12] 2."Without the Lord's meditation, there is no emancipation, and no one has ever found peace."||1||[215-13] I understand Gurmukhi but my browser does not permit me to post the bani.

The topic/title is self suggestive. I shall be grateful if healthy discussion is carried on this and members may share their view points. Love to all.

It is very enlightening view point. Sikhs may have some different view points from Hindu ideology but Gurus have always taught us that we should be engaged in 'sarbat Bhala'. Sharing happy and sad moments of every one is the innate teachings for the sikhs. Yes, we celebrate this day of lights, it almost as a festival and that spirit we should always keep. Culturally we are not much different from Hindus and we share many things with them. May be we do not like to utter these things on the forums lest it may invite the wrath of other members. I like this day as the day of light .I like the way my little daughter makes 'Rangoli' at the entrance of the house and everyone is welcome. We do visit Gurudwaras and light candles. What is there to be so serious about it? We are all humn beings. We all like our hearts to blossom some time or the other. Always pondering over 'sabads' and 'bani' is good but then till we reach a stage when mind is above this play of maya, we all like to be happy and gay. Guru sahibs have cautioned against pleasure and seeking pleasure but being happy is another feeling and I think that we should always be happy and that is a blessing. My views are not in alignment with the spirit of this thread for which I deserve to be pardoned. I have been to Gwalior Kila Gurudwara[Datta bandi Chor] with my family and we enjoyed the stay very much. Incidentally, it shall be appropriate that I should tell that I am a born-sikh and have been subjected to all that happened during 1984 riots and I do not keep hairs and now I feel it is high time that I should become Amritdhari and would request sangat to pray for me that Guru Sahibs give me enough courage to become Puran Guru sikh. My wife is also a very religious lady and she gets up daily at about 3 a.m. and does her duties. I really want to join her now before it is too late. Sorry for all diversions. i am i tears and shall stop here. Love to all.

There is no physical hell and heaven. Gurbani do state or gives reference to Hell and heaven. But it, to the best of my understanding, is state of mind only.When e feel happy we are in heaven and when aggrived we are in Hell. There are about 180 times that SGGS mentions hell in the bani. I am giving below a sabad that I like.It is from Sukhmani sahib ji;Octave is not given in full ,only sabad format is reproduced. ਅਸਟਪਦੀ ॥ Asatpaḏī. Ashtapadee: ਸੰਤ ਕੈ ਦੂਖਨਿ ਆਰਜਾ ਘਟੈ ॥ Sanṯ kai ḏūkẖan ārjā gẖatai. Slandering the Saints, one's life is cut short. ਸੰਤ ਕੈ ਦੂਖਨਿ ਜਮ ਤੇ ਨਹੀ ਛੁਟੈ ॥ Sanṯ kai ḏūkẖan jam ṯė nahī cẖẖutai. Slandering the Saints, one shall not escape the Messenger of Death. ਸੰਤ ਕੈ ਦੂਖਨਿ ਸੁਖੁ ਸਭੁ ਜਾਇ ॥ Sanṯ kai ḏūkẖan sukẖ sabẖ jā­ė. Slandering the Saints, all happiness vanishes. ਸੰਤ ਕੈ ਦੂਖਨਿ ਨਰਕ ਮਹਿ ਪਾਇ ॥ Sanṯ kai ḏūkẖan narak meh pā­ė. Slandering the Saints, one falls into hell. ਸੰਤ ਕੈ ਦੂਖਨਿ ਮਤਿ ਹੋਇ ਮਲੀਨ ॥ Sanṯ kai ḏūkẖan maṯ ho­ė malīn. Slandering the Saints, the intellect is polluted. ਸੰਤ ਕੈ ਦੂਖਨਿ ਸੋਭਾ ਤੇ ਹੀਨ ॥ Sanṯ kai ḏūkẖan sobẖā ṯė hīn. Slandering the Saints, one's reputation is lost. ਸੰਤ ਕੇ ਹਤੇ ਕਉ ਰਖੈ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥ Sanṯ kė haṯė ka­o rakẖai na ko­ė. One who is cursed by a Saint cannot be saved. ਸੰਤ ਕੈ ਦੂਖਨਿ ਥਾਨ ਭ੍ਰਸਟੁ ਹੋਇ ॥ Sanṯ kai ḏūkẖan thān bẖarsat ho­ė. Slandering the Saints, one's place is defiled. ਸੰਤ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾਲ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਜੇ ਕਰੈ ॥ Sanṯ kirpāl kirpā jė karai. But if the Compassionate Saint shows His Kindness, ਨਾਨਕ ਸੰਤਸੰਗਿ ਨਿੰਦਕੁ ਭੀ ਤਰੈ ॥੧॥ Nānak saṯsang ninḏak bẖī ṯarai. ||1|| O Nanak, in the Company of the Saints, the slanderer may still be saved. ||1|| ਸੰਤ ਕੇ ਦੂਖਨ ਤੇ ਮੁਖੁ ਭਵੈ ॥ Sanṯ kė ḏūkẖan ṯė mukẖ bẖavai. Slandering the Saints, one becomes a wry-faced malcontent. ਸੰਤਨ ਕੈ ਦੂਖਨਿ ਕਾਗ ਜਿਉ ਲਵੈ ॥ Sanṯan kai ḏūkẖan kāg ji­o lavai. Slandering the Saints, one croaks like a raven. ਸੰਤਨ ਕੈ ਦੂਖਨਿ ਸਰਪ ਜੋਨਿ ਪਾਇ ॥ Sanṯan kai ḏūkẖan sarap jon pā­ė. Slandering the Saints, one is reincarnated as a snake. ਸੰਤ ਕੈ ਦੂਖਨਿ ਤ੍ਰਿਗਦ ਜੋਨਿ ਕਿਰਮਾਇ ॥ Sanṯ kai ḏūkẖan ṯarigaḏ jon kirmā­ė. Slandering the Saints, one is reincarnated as a wiggling worm. ਸੰਤਨ ਕੈ ਦੂਖਨਿ ਤ੍ਰਿਸਨਾ ਮਹਿ ਜਲੈ ॥ Sanṯan kai ḏūkẖan ṯarisnā meh jalai. Slandering the Saints, one burns in the fire of desire. ਸੰਤ ਕੈ ਦੂਖਨਿ ਸਭੁ ਕੋ ਛਲੈ ॥ Sanṯ kai ḏūkẖan sabẖ ko cẖẖalai. Slandering the Saints, one tries to deceive everyone. ਸੰਤ ਕੈ ਦੂਖਨਿ ਤੇਜੁ ਸਭੁ ਜਾਇ ॥ Sanṯ kai ḏūkẖan ṯėj sabẖ jā­ė. Slandering the Saints, all one's influence vanishes. ਸੰਤ ਕੈ ਦੂਖਨਿ ਨੀਚੁ ਨੀਚਾਇ ॥ Sanṯ kai ḏūkẖan nīcẖ nīcẖā­ė. Slandering the Saints, one becomes the lowest of the low. ਸੰਤ ਦੋਖੀ ਕਾ ਥਾਉ ਕੋ ਨਾਹਿ ॥ Sanṯ ḏokẖī kā thā­o ko nāhi. For the slanderer of the Saint, there is no place of rest. ਨਾਨਕ ਸੰਤ ਭਾਵੈ ਤਾ ਓਇ ਭੀ ਗਤਿ ਪਾਹਿ ॥੨॥ Nānak sanṯ bẖāvai ṯā o­ė bẖī gaṯ pāhi. ||2|| O Nanak, if it pleases the Saint, even then, he may be saved. ||2|| ਸੰਤ ਕਾ ਨਿੰਦਕੁ ਮਹਾ ਅਤਤਾਈ ॥ Sanṯ kā ninḏak mahā aṯṯā­ī. The slanderer of the Saint is the worst evil-doer. ਸੰਤ ਕਾ ਨਿੰਦਕੁ ਖਿਨੁ ਟਿਕਨੁ ਨ ਪਾਈ ॥ Sanṯ kā ninḏak kẖin tikan na pā­ī. The slanderer of the Saint has not even a moment's rest. ਸੰਤ ਕਾ ਨਿੰਦਕੁ ਮਹਾ ਹਤਿਆਰਾ ॥ Sanṯ kā ninḏak mahā haṯi­ārā. The slanderer of the Saint is a brutal butcher. ਸੰਤ ਕਾ ਨਿੰਦਕੁ ਪਰਮੇਸੁਰਿ ਮਾਰਾ ॥ Sanṯ kā ninḏak parmėsur mārā. The slanderer of the Saint is cursed by the Transcendent Lord. ਸੰਤ ਕਾ ਨਿੰਦਕੁ ਰਾਜ ਤੇ ਹੀਨੁ ॥ Sanṯ kā ninḏak rāj ṯė hīn. The slanderer of the Saint has no kingdom. ਸੰਤ ਕਾ ਨਿੰਦਕੁ ਦੁਖੀਆ ਅਰੁ ਦੀਨੁ ॥ Sanṯ kā ninḏak ḏukẖī­ā ar ḏīn. The slanderer of the Saint becomes miserable and poor. ਸੰਤ ਕੇ ਨਿੰਦਕ ਕਉ ਸਰਬ ਰੋਗ ॥ Sanṯ kė ninḏak ka­o sarab rog. The slanderer of the Saint contracts all diseases. ਸੰਤ ਕੇ ਨਿੰਦਕ ਕਉ ਸਦਾ ਬਿਜੋਗ ॥ Sanṯ kė ninḏak ka­o saḏā bijog. The slanderer of the Saint is forever separated. ਸੰਤ ਕੀ ਨਿੰਦਾ ਦੋਖ ਮਹਿ ਦੋਖੁ ॥ Sanṯ kī ninḏā ḏokẖ meh ḏokẖ. To slander a Saint is the worst sin of sins. ਨਾਨਕ ਸੰਤ ਭਾਵੈ ਤਾ ਉਸ ਕਾ ਭੀ ਹੋਇ ਮੋਖੁ ॥੩॥ Nānak sanṯ bẖāvai ṯā us kā bẖī ho­ė mokẖ. ||3|| O Nanak, if it pleases the Saint, then even this one may be liberated. ||3|| ਸੰਤ ਕਾ ਦੋਖੀ ਸਦਾ ਅਪਵਿਤੁ ॥ Sanṯ kā ḏokẖī saḏā apviṯ. The slanderer of the Saint is forever impure. ਸੰਤ ਕਾ ਦੋਖੀ ਕਿਸੈ ਕਾ ਨਹੀ ਮਿਤੁ ॥ Sanṯ kā ḏokẖī kisai kā nahī miṯ. The slanderer of the Saint is nobody's friend. ਸੰਤ ਕੇ ਦੋਖੀ ਕਉ ਡਾਨੁ ਲਾਗੈ ॥ Sanṯ kė ḏokẖī ka­o dān lāgai. The slanderer of the Saint shall be punished. ਸੰਤ ਕੇ ਦੋਖੀ ਕਉ ਸਭ ਤਿਆਗੈ ॥ Sanṯ kė ḏokẖī ka­o sabẖ ṯi­āgai. The slanderer of the Saint is abandoned by all. ਸੰਤ ਕਾ ਦੋਖੀ ਮਹਾ ਅਹੰਕਾਰੀ ॥ Sanṯ kā ḏokẖī mahā ahaʼnkārī. The slanderer of the Saint is totally egocentric. ਸੰਤ ਕਾ ਦੋਖੀ ਸਦਾ ਬਿਕਾਰੀ ॥ Sanṯ kā ḏokẖī saḏā bikārī. The slanderer of the Saint is forever corrupt. ਸੰਤ ਕਾ ਦੋਖੀ ਜਨਮੈ ਮਰੈ ॥ Sanṯ kā ḏokẖī janmai marai. The slanderer of the Saint must endure birth and death. ਸੰਤ ਕੀ ਦੂਖਨਾ ਸੁਖ ਤੇ ਟਰੈ ॥ Sanṯ kī ḏūkẖnā sukẖ ṯė tarai. The slanderer of the Saint is devoid of peace. ਸੰਤ ਕੇ ਦੋਖੀ ਕਉ ਨਾਹੀ ਠਾਉ ॥ Sanṯ kė ḏokẖī ka­o nāhī ṯẖā­o. The slanderer of the Saint has no place of rest. ਨਾਨਕ ਸੰਤ ਭਾਵੈ ਤਾ ਲਏ ਮਿਲਾਇ ॥੪॥ Nānak sanṯ bẖāvai ṯā la­ė milā­ė. ||4|| O Nanak, if it pleases the Saint, then even such a one may merge in union. ||4|| ਸੰਤ ਕਾ ਦੋਖੀ ਅਧ ਬੀਚ ਤੇ ਟੂਟੈ ॥ Sanṯ kā ḏokẖī aḏẖ bīcẖ ṯė tūtai. The slanderer of the Saint breaks down mid-way. ਸੰਤ ਕਾ ਦੋਖੀ ਕਿਤੈ ਕਾਜਿ ਨ ਪਹੂਚੈ ॥ Sanṯ kā ḏokẖī kiṯai kāj na pahūcẖai. The slanderer of the Saint cannot accomplish his tasks. ਸੰਤ ਕੇ ਦੋਖੀ ਕਉ ਉਦਿਆਨ ਭ੍ਰਮਾਈਐ ॥ Sanṯ kė ḏokẖī ka­o uḏi­ān bẖarmā­ī­ai. The slanderer of the Saint wanders in the wilderness. ਸੰਤ ਕਾ ਦੋਖੀ ਉਝੜਿ ਪਾਈਐ ॥ Sanṯ kā ḏokẖī ujẖaṛ pā­ī­ai. The slanderer of the Saint is misled into desolation. ਸੰਤ ਕਾ ਦੋਖੀ ਅੰਤਰ ਤੇ ਥੋਥਾ ॥ Sanṯ kā ḏokẖī anṯar ṯė thothā. The slanderer of the Saint is empty inside, ਜਿਉ ਸਾਸ ਬਿਨਾ ਮਿਰਤਕ ਕੀ ਲੋਥਾ ॥ Ji­o sās binā mirṯak kī lothā. like the corpse of a dead man, without the breath of life. ਸੰਤ ਕੇ ਦੋਖੀ ਕੀ ਜੜ ਕਿਛੁ ਨਾਹਿ ॥ Sanṯ kė ḏokẖī kī jaṛ kicẖẖ nāhi. The slanderer of the Saint has no heritage at all. ਆਪਨ ਬੀਜਿ ਆਪੇ ਹੀ ਖਾਹਿ ॥ Āpan bīj āpė hī kẖāhi. He himself must eat what he has planted. ਸੰਤ ਕੇ ਦੋਖੀ ਕਉ ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਰਾਖਨਹਾਰੁ ॥ Sanṯ kė ḏokẖī ka­o avar na rākẖanhār. The slanderer of the Saint cannot be saved by anyone else. ਨਾਨਕ ਸੰਤ ਭਾਵੈ ਤਾ ਲਏ ਉਬਾਰਿ ॥੫॥ Nānak sanṯ bẖāvai ṯā la­ė ubār. ||5|| O Nanak, if it pleases the Saint, then even he may be saved. ||5|| ਸੰਤ ਕਾ ਦੋਖੀ ਇਉ ਬਿਲਲਾਇ ॥ Sanṯ kā ḏokẖī i­o billā­ė. The slanderer of the Saint bewails like this - ਜਿਉ ਜਲ ਬਿਹੂਨ ਮਛੁਲੀ ਤੜਫੜਾਇ ॥ Ji­o jal bihūn macẖẖulī ṯaṛafṛā­ė. like a fish, out of water, writhing in agony. ਸੰਤ ਕਾ ਦੋਖੀ ਭੂਖਾ ਨਹੀ ਰਾਜੈ ॥ Sanṯ kā ḏokẖī bẖūkẖā nahī rājai. The slanderer of the Saint is hungry and is never satisfied, ਜਿਉ ਪਾਵਕੁ ਈਧਨਿ ਨਹੀ ਧ੍ਰਾਪੈ ॥ Ji­o pāvak īḏẖan nahī ḏẖarāpai. as fire is not satisfied by fuel. ਸੰਤ ਕਾ ਦੋਖੀ ਛੁਟੈ ਇਕੇਲਾ ॥ Sanṯ kā ḏokẖī cẖẖutai ikėlā. The slanderer of the Saint is left all alone, ਜਿਉ ਬੂਆੜੁ ਤਿਲੁ ਖੇਤ ਮਾਹਿ ਦੁਹੇਲਾ ॥ Ji­o bū­āṛ ṯil kẖėṯ māhi ḏuhėlā. like the miserable barren sesame stalk abandoned in the field. ਸੰਤ ਕਾ ਦੋਖੀ ਧਰਮ ਤੇ ਰਹਤ ॥ Sanṯ kā ḏokẖī ḏẖaram ṯė rahaṯ. The slanderer of the Saint is devoid of faith. ਸੰਤ ਕਾ ਦੋਖੀ ਸਦ ਮਿਥਿਆ ਕਹਤ ॥ Sanṯ kā ḏokẖī saḏ mithi­ā kahaṯ. The slanderer of the Saint constantly lies. ਕਿਰਤੁ ਨਿੰਦਕ ਕਾ ਧੁਰਿ ਹੀ ਪਇਆ ॥ Kiraṯ ninḏak kā ḏẖur hī pa­i­ā. The fate of the slanderer is pre-ordained from the very beginning of time. ਨਾਨਕ ਜੋ ਤਿਸੁ ਭਾਵੈ ਸੋਈ ਥਿਆ ॥੬॥ Nānak jo ṯis bẖāvai so­ī thi­ā. ||6|| O Nanak, whatever pleases God's Will comes to pass. ||6|| ਸੰਤ ਕਾ ਦੋਖੀ ਬਿਗੜ ਰੂਪੁ ਹੋਇ ਜਾਇ ॥ Sanṯ kā ḏokẖī bigaṛ rūp ho­ė jā­ė. The slanderer of the Saint becomes deformed. ਸੰਤ ਕੇ ਦੋਖੀ ਕਉ ਦਰਗਹ ਮਿਲੈ ਸਜਾਇ ॥ Sanṯ kė ḏokẖī ka­o ḏargeh milai sajā­ė. The slanderer of the Saint receives his punishment in the Court of the Lord. ਸੰਤ ਕਾ ਦੋਖੀ ਸਦਾ ਸਹਕਾਈਐ ॥ Sanṯ kā ḏokẖī saḏā sahkā­ī­ai. The slanderer of the Saint is eternally in limbo. ਸੰਤ ਕਾ ਦੋਖੀ ਨ ਮਰੈ ਨ ਜੀਵਾਈਐ ॥ Sanṯ kā ḏokẖī na marai na jīvā­ī­ai. He does not die, but he does not live either. ਸੰਤ ਕੇ ਦੋਖੀ ਕੀ ਪੁਜੈ ਨ ਆਸਾ ॥ Sanṯ kė ḏokẖī kī pujai na āsā. The hopes of the slanderer of the Saint are not fulfilled. ਸੰਤ ਕਾ ਦੋਖੀ ਉਠਿ ਚਲੈ ਨਿਰਾਸਾ ॥ Sanṯ kā ḏokẖī uṯẖ cẖalai nirāsā. The slanderer of the Saint departs disappointed. ਸੰਤ ਕੈ ਦੋਖਿ ਨ ਤ੍ਰਿਸਟੈ ਕੋਇ ॥ Sanṯ kai ḏokẖ na ṯaristai ko­ė. Slandering the Saint, no one attains satisfaction. ਜੈਸਾ ਭਾਵੈ ਤੈਸਾ ਕੋਈ ਹੋਇ ॥ Jaisā bẖāvai ṯaisā ko­ī ho­ė. As it pleases the Lord, so do people become; ਪਇਆ ਕਿਰਤੁ ਨ ਮੇਟੈ ਕੋਇ ॥ Pa­i­ā kiraṯ na mėtai ko­ė. no one can erase their past actions. ਨਾਨਕ ਜਾਨੈ ਸਚਾ ਸੋਇ ॥੭॥ Nānak jānai sacẖā so­ė. ||7|| O Nanak, the True Lord alone knows all. ||7|| ਸਭ ਘਟ ਤਿਸ ਕੇ ਓਹੁ ਕਰਨੈਹਾਰੁ ॥ Sabẖ gẖat ṯis kė oh karnaihār. All hearts are His; He is the Creator. ਸਦਾ ਸਦਾ ਤਿਸ ਕਉ ਨਮਸਕਾਰੁ ॥ Saḏā saḏā ṯis ka­o namaskār. Forever and ever, I bow to Him in reverence. ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕੀ ਉਸਤਤਿ ਕਰਹੁ ਦਿਨੁ ਰਾਤਿ ॥ Parabẖ kī usṯaṯ karahu ḏin rāṯ. Praise God, day and night. ਤਿਸਹਿ ਧਿਆਵਹੁ ਸਾਸਿ ਗਿਰਾਸਿ ॥ Ŧiseh ḏẖi­āvahu sās girās. Meditate on Him with every breath and morsel of food. ਸਭੁ ਕਛੁ ਵਰਤੈ ਤਿਸ ਕਾ ਕੀਆ ॥ Sabẖ kacẖẖ //ṯai ṯis kā kī­ā. Everything happens as He wills. ਜੈਸਾ ਕਰੇ ਤੈਸਾ ਕੋ ਥੀਆ ॥ Jaisā karė ṯaisā ko thī­ā. As He wills, so people become. ਅਪਨਾ ਖੇਲੁ ਆਪਿ ਕਰਨੈਹਾਰੁ ॥ Apnā kẖėl āp karnaihār. He Himself is the play, and He Himself is the actor. ਦੂਸਰ ਕਉਨੁ ਕਹੈ ਬੀਚਾਰੁ ॥ Ḏūsar ka­un kahai bīcẖār. Who else can speak or deliberate upon this? Bhul Chuk Mauf

There is no physical hell and heaven. Gurbani do state or gives reference to Hell and heaven. But it, to the best of my understanding, is state of mind only.When e feel happy we are in heaven and when aggrived we are in Hell. There are about 180 times that SGGS mentions hell in the bani. I am giving below a sabad that I like: ਅਸਟਪਦੀ ॥ Asatpaḏī. Ashtapadee: ਸੰਤ ਕੈ ਦੂਖਨਿ ਆਰਜਾ ਘਟੈ ॥ Sanṯ kai ḏūkẖan ārjā gẖatai. Slandering the Saints, one's life is cut short. ਸੰਤ ਕੈ ਦੂਖਨਿ ਜਮ ਤੇ ਨਹੀ ਛੁਟੈ ॥ Sanṯ kai ḏūkẖan jam ṯė nahī cẖẖutai. Slandering the Saints, one shall not escape the Messenger of Death. ਸੰਤ ਕੈ ਦੂਖਨਿ ਸੁਖੁ ਸਭੁ ਜਾਇ ॥ Sanṯ kai ḏūkẖan sukẖ sabẖ jā­ė. Slandering the Saints, all happiness vanishes. ਸੰਤ ਕੈ ਦੂਖਨਿ ਨਰਕ ਮਹਿ ਪਾਇ ॥ Sanṯ kai ḏūkẖan narak meh pā­ė. Slandering the Saints, one falls into hell. ਸੰਤ ਕੈ ਦੂਖਨਿ ਮਤਿ ਹੋਇ ਮਲੀਨ ॥ Sanṯ kai ḏūkẖan maṯ ho­ė malīn. Slandering the Saints, the intellect is polluted. ਸੰਤ ਕੈ ਦੂਖਨਿ ਸੋਭਾ ਤੇ ਹੀਨ ॥ Sanṯ kai ḏūkẖan sobẖā ṯė hīn. Slandering the Saints, one's reputation is lost. ਸੰਤ ਕੇ ਹਤੇ ਕਉ ਰਖੈ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥ Sanṯ kė haṯė ka­o rakẖai na ko­ė. One who is cursed by a Saint cannot be saved. ਸੰਤ ਕੈ ਦੂਖਨਿ ਥਾਨ ਭ੍ਰਸਟੁ ਹੋਇ ॥ Sanṯ kai ḏūkẖan thān bẖarsat ho­ė. Slandering the Saints, one's place is defiled. ਸੰਤ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾਲ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਜੇ ਕਰੈ ॥ Sanṯ kirpāl kirpā jė karai. But if the Compassionate Saint shows His Kindness, ਨਾਨਕ ਸੰਤਸੰਗਿ ਨਿੰਦਕੁ ਭੀ ਤਰੈ ॥੧॥ Nānak saṯsang ninḏak bẖī ṯarai. ||1|| O Nanak, in the Company of the Saints, the slanderer may still be saved. ||1|| ਸੰਤ ਕੇ ਦੂਖਨ ਤੇ ਮੁਖੁ ਭਵੈ ॥ Sanṯ kė ḏūkẖan ṯė mukẖ bẖavai. Slandering the Saints, one becomes a wry-faced malcontent. ਸੰਤਨ ਕੈ ਦੂਖਨਿ ਕਾਗ ਜਿਉ ਲਵੈ ॥ Sanṯan kai ḏūkẖan kāg ji­o lavai. Slandering the Saints, one croaks like a raven. ਸੰਤਨ ਕੈ ਦੂਖਨਿ ਸਰਪ ਜੋਨਿ ਪਾਇ ॥ Sanṯan kai ḏūkẖan sarap jon pā­ė. Slandering the Saints, one is reincarnated as a snake. ਸੰਤ ਕੈ ਦੂਖਨਿ ਤ੍ਰਿਗਦ ਜੋਨਿ ਕਿਰਮਾਇ ॥ Sanṯ kai ḏūkẖan ṯarigaḏ jon kirmā­ė. Slandering the Saints, one is reincarnated as a wiggling worm. ਸੰਤਨ ਕੈ ਦੂਖਨਿ ਤ੍ਰਿਸਨਾ ਮਹਿ ਜਲੈ ॥ Sanṯan kai ḏūkẖan ṯarisnā meh jalai. Slandering the Saints, one burns in the fire of desire. ਸੰਤ ਕੈ ਦੂਖਨਿ ਸਭੁ ਕੋ ਛਲੈ ॥ Sanṯ kai ḏūkẖan sabẖ ko cẖẖalai. Slandering the Saints, one tries to deceive everyone. ਸੰਤ ਕੈ ਦੂਖਨਿ ਤੇਜੁ ਸਭੁ ਜਾਇ ॥ Sanṯ kai ḏūkẖan ṯėj sabẖ jā­ė. Slandering the Saints, all one's influence vanishes. ਸੰਤ ਕੈ ਦੂਖਨਿ ਨੀਚੁ ਨੀਚਾਇ ॥ Sanṯ kai ḏūkẖan nīcẖ nīcẖā­ė. Slandering the Saints, one becomes the lowest of the low. ਸੰਤ ਦੋਖੀ ਕਾ ਥਾਉ ਕੋ ਨਾਹਿ ॥ Sanṯ ḏokẖī kā thā­o ko nāhi. For the slanderer of the Saint, there is no place of rest. ਨਾਨਕ ਸੰਤ ਭਾਵੈ ਤਾ ਓਇ ਭੀ ਗਤਿ ਪਾਹਿ ॥੨॥ Nānak sanṯ bẖāvai ṯā o­ė bẖī gaṯ pāhi. ||2|| O Nanak, if it pleases the Saint, even then, he may be saved. ||2|| ਸੰਤ ਕਾ ਨਿੰਦਕੁ ਮਹਾ ਅਤਤਾਈ ॥ Sanṯ kā ninḏak mahā aṯṯā­ī. The slanderer of the Saint is the worst evil-doer. ਸੰਤ ਕਾ ਨਿੰਦਕੁ ਖਿਨੁ ਟਿਕਨੁ ਨ ਪਾਈ ॥ Sanṯ kā ninḏak kẖin tikan na pā­ī. The slanderer of the Saint has not even a moment's rest. ਸੰਤ ਕਾ ਨਿੰਦਕੁ ਮਹਾ ਹਤਿਆਰਾ ॥ Sanṯ kā ninḏak mahā haṯi­ārā. The slanderer of the Saint is a brutal butcher. ਸੰਤ ਕਾ ਨਿੰਦਕੁ ਪਰਮੇਸੁਰਿ ਮਾਰਾ ॥ Sanṯ kā ninḏak parmėsur mārā. The slanderer of the Saint is cursed by the Transcendent Lord. ਸੰਤ ਕਾ ਨਿੰਦਕੁ ਰਾਜ ਤੇ ਹੀਨੁ ॥ Sanṯ kā ninḏak rāj ṯė hīn. The slanderer of the Saint has no kingdom. ਸੰਤ ਕਾ ਨਿੰਦਕੁ ਦੁਖੀਆ ਅਰੁ ਦੀਨੁ ॥ Sanṯ kā ninḏak ḏukẖī­ā ar ḏīn. The slanderer of the Saint becomes miserable and poor. ਸੰਤ ਕੇ ਨਿੰਦਕ ਕਉ ਸਰਬ ਰੋਗ ॥ Sanṯ kė ninḏak ka­o sarab rog. The slanderer of the Saint contracts all diseases. ਸੰਤ ਕੇ ਨਿੰਦਕ ਕਉ ਸਦਾ ਬਿਜੋਗ ॥ Sanṯ kė ninḏak ka­o saḏā bijog. The slanderer of the Saint is forever separated. ਸੰਤ ਕੀ ਨਿੰਦਾ ਦੋਖ ਮਹਿ ਦੋਖੁ ॥ Sanṯ kī ninḏā ḏokẖ meh ḏokẖ. To slander a Saint is the worst sin of sins. ਨਾਨਕ ਸੰਤ ਭਾਵੈ ਤਾ ਉਸ ਕਾ ਭੀ ਹੋਇ ਮੋਖੁ ॥੩॥ Nānak sanṯ bẖāvai ṯā us kā bẖī ho­ė mokẖ. ||3|| O Nanak, if it pleases the Saint, then even this one may be liberated. ||3|| ਸੰਤ ਕਾ ਦੋਖੀ ਸਦਾ ਅਪਵਿਤੁ ॥ Sanṯ kā ḏokẖī saḏā apviṯ. The slanderer of the Saint is forever impure. ਸੰਤ ਕਾ ਦੋਖੀ ਕਿਸੈ ਕਾ ਨਹੀ ਮਿਤੁ ॥ Sanṯ kā ḏokẖī kisai kā nahī miṯ. The slanderer of the Saint is nobody's friend. ਸੰਤ ਕੇ ਦੋਖੀ ਕਉ ਡਾਨੁ ਲਾਗੈ ॥ Sanṯ kė ḏokẖī ka­o dān lāgai. The slanderer of the Saint shall be punished. ਸੰਤ ਕੇ ਦੋਖੀ ਕਉ ਸਭ ਤਿਆਗੈ ॥ Sanṯ kė ḏokẖī ka­o sabẖ ṯi­āgai. The slanderer of the Saint is abandoned by all. ਸੰਤ ਕਾ ਦੋਖੀ ਮਹਾ ਅਹੰਕਾਰੀ ॥ Sanṯ kā ḏokẖī mahā ahaʼnkārī. The slanderer of the Saint is totally egocentric. ਸੰਤ ਕਾ ਦੋਖੀ ਸਦਾ ਬਿਕਾਰੀ ॥ Sanṯ kā ḏokẖī saḏā bikārī. The slanderer of the Saint is forever corrupt. ਸੰਤ ਕਾ ਦੋਖੀ ਜਨਮੈ ਮਰੈ ॥ Sanṯ kā ḏokẖī janmai marai. The slanderer of the Saint must endure birth and death. ਸੰਤ ਕੀ ਦੂਖਨਾ ਸੁਖ ਤੇ ਟਰੈ ॥ Sanṯ kī ḏūkẖnā sukẖ ṯė tarai. The slanderer of the Saint is devoid of peace. ਸੰਤ ਕੇ ਦੋਖੀ ਕਉ ਨਾਹੀ ਠਾਉ ॥ Sanṯ kė ḏokẖī ka­o nāhī ṯẖā­o. The slanderer of the Saint has no place of rest. ਨਾਨਕ ਸੰਤ ਭਾਵੈ ਤਾ ਲਏ ਮਿਲਾਇ ॥੪॥ Nānak sanṯ bẖāvai ṯā la­ė milā­ė. ||4|| O Nanak, if it pleases the Saint, then even such a one may merge in union. ||4|| ਸੰਤ ਕਾ ਦੋਖੀ ਅਧ ਬੀਚ ਤੇ ਟੂਟੈ ॥ Sanṯ kā ḏokẖī aḏẖ bīcẖ ṯė tūtai. The slanderer of the Saint breaks down mid-way. ਸੰਤ ਕਾ ਦੋਖੀ ਕਿਤੈ ਕਾਜਿ ਨ ਪਹੂਚੈ ॥ Sanṯ kā ḏokẖī kiṯai kāj na pahūcẖai. The slanderer of the Saint cannot accomplish his tasks. ਸੰਤ ਕੇ ਦੋਖੀ ਕਉ ਉਦਿਆਨ ਭ੍ਰਮਾਈਐ ॥ Sanṯ kė ḏokẖī ka­o uḏi­ān bẖarmā­ī­ai. The slanderer of the Saint wanders in the wilderness. ਸੰਤ ਕਾ ਦੋਖੀ ਉਝੜਿ ਪਾਈਐ ॥ Sanṯ kā ḏokẖī ujẖaṛ pā­ī­ai. The slanderer of the Saint is misled into desolation. ਸੰਤ ਕਾ ਦੋਖੀ ਅੰਤਰ ਤੇ ਥੋਥਾ ॥ Sanṯ kā ḏokẖī anṯar ṯė thothā. The slanderer of the Saint is empty inside, ਜਿਉ ਸਾਸ ਬਿਨਾ ਮਿਰਤਕ ਕੀ ਲੋਥਾ ॥ Ji­o sās binā mirṯak kī lothā. like the corpse of a dead man, without the breath of life. ਸੰਤ ਕੇ ਦੋਖੀ ਕੀ ਜੜ ਕਿਛੁ ਨਾਹਿ ॥ Sanṯ kė ḏokẖī kī jaṛ kicẖẖ nāhi. The slanderer of the Saint has no heritage at all. ਆਪਨ ਬੀਜਿ ਆਪੇ ਹੀ ਖਾਹਿ ॥ Āpan bīj āpė hī kẖāhi. He himself must eat what he has planted. ਸੰਤ ਕੇ ਦੋਖੀ ਕਉ ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਰਾਖਨਹਾਰੁ ॥ Sanṯ kė ḏokẖī ka­o avar na rākẖanhār. The slanderer of the Saint cannot be saved by anyone else. ਨਾਨਕ ਸੰਤ ਭਾਵੈ ਤਾ ਲਏ ਉਬਾਰਿ ॥੫॥ Nānak sanṯ bẖāvai ṯā la­ė ubār. ||5|| O Nanak, if it pleases the Saint, then even he may be saved. ||5|| ਸੰਤ ਕਾ ਦੋਖੀ ਇਉ ਬਿਲਲਾਇ ॥ Sanṯ kā ḏokẖī i­o billā­ė. The slanderer of the Saint bewails like this - ਜਿਉ ਜਲ ਬਿਹੂਨ ਮਛੁਲੀ ਤੜਫੜਾਇ ॥ Ji­o jal bihūn macẖẖulī ṯaṛafṛā­ė. like a fish, out of water, writhing in agony. ਸੰਤ ਕਾ ਦੋਖੀ ਭੂਖਾ ਨਹੀ ਰਾਜੈ ॥ Sanṯ kā ḏokẖī bẖūkẖā nahī rājai. The slanderer of the Saint is hungry and is never satisfied, ਜਿਉ ਪਾਵਕੁ ਈਧਨਿ ਨਹੀ ਧ੍ਰਾਪੈ ॥ Ji­o pāvak īḏẖan nahī ḏẖarāpai. as fire is not satisfied by fuel. ਸੰਤ ਕਾ ਦੋਖੀ ਛੁਟੈ ਇਕੇਲਾ ॥ Sanṯ kā ḏokẖī cẖẖutai ikėlā. The slanderer of the Saint is left all alone, ਜਿਉ ਬੂਆੜੁ ਤਿਲੁ ਖੇਤ ਮਾਹਿ ਦੁਹੇਲਾ ॥ Ji­o bū­āṛ ṯil kẖėṯ māhi ḏuhėlā. like the miserable barren sesame stalk abandoned in the field. ਸੰਤ ਕਾ ਦੋਖੀ ਧਰਮ ਤੇ ਰਹਤ ॥ Sanṯ kā ḏokẖī ḏẖaram ṯė rahaṯ. The slanderer of the Saint is devoid of faith. ਸੰਤ ਕਾ ਦੋਖੀ ਸਦ ਮਿਥਿਆ ਕਹਤ ॥ Sanṯ kā ḏokẖī saḏ mithi­ā kahaṯ. The slanderer of the Saint constantly lies. ਕਿਰਤੁ ਨਿੰਦਕ ਕਾ ਧੁਰਿ ਹੀ ਪਇਆ ॥ Kiraṯ ninḏak kā ḏẖur hī pa­i­ā. The fate of the slanderer is pre-ordained from the very beginning of time. ਨਾਨਕ ਜੋ ਤਿਸੁ ਭਾਵੈ ਸੋਈ ਥਿਆ ॥੬॥ Nānak jo ṯis bẖāvai so­ī thi­ā. ||6|| O Nanak, whatever pleases God's Will comes to pass. ||6|| ਸੰਤ ਕਾ ਦੋਖੀ ਬਿਗੜ ਰੂਪੁ ਹੋਇ ਜਾਇ ॥ Sanṯ kā ḏokẖī bigaṛ rūp ho­ė jā­ė. The slanderer of the Saint becomes deformed. ਸੰਤ ਕੇ ਦੋਖੀ ਕਉ ਦਰਗਹ ਮਿਲੈ ਸਜਾਇ ॥ Sanṯ kė ḏokẖī ka­o ḏargeh milai sajā­ė. The slanderer of the Saint receives his punishment in the Court of the Lord. ਸੰਤ ਕਾ ਦੋਖੀ ਸਦਾ ਸਹਕਾਈਐ ॥ Sanṯ kā ḏokẖī saḏā sahkā­ī­ai. The slanderer of the Saint is eternally in limbo. ਸੰਤ ਕਾ ਦੋਖੀ ਨ ਮਰੈ ਨ ਜੀਵਾਈਐ ॥ Sanṯ kā ḏokẖī na marai na jīvā­ī­ai. He does not die, but he does not live either. ਸੰਤ ਕੇ ਦੋਖੀ ਕੀ ਪੁਜੈ ਨ ਆਸਾ ॥ Sanṯ kė ḏokẖī kī pujai na āsā. The hopes of the slanderer of the Saint are not fulfilled. ਸੰਤ ਕਾ ਦੋਖੀ ਉਠਿ ਚਲੈ ਨਿਰਾਸਾ ॥ Sanṯ kā ḏokẖī uṯẖ cẖalai nirāsā. The slanderer of the Saint departs disappointed. ਸੰਤ ਕੈ ਦੋਖਿ ਨ ਤ੍ਰਿਸਟੈ ਕੋਇ ॥ Sanṯ kai ḏokẖ na ṯaristai ko­ė. Slandering the Saint, no one attains satisfaction. ਜੈਸਾ ਭਾਵੈ ਤੈਸਾ ਕੋਈ ਹੋਇ ॥ Jaisā bẖāvai ṯaisā ko­ī ho­ė. As it pleases the Lord, so do people become; ਪਇਆ ਕਿਰਤੁ ਨ ਮੇਟੈ ਕੋਇ ॥ Pa­i­ā kiraṯ na mėtai ko­ė. no one can erase their past actions. ਨਾਨਕ ਜਾਨੈ ਸਚਾ ਸੋਇ ॥੭॥ Nānak jānai sacẖā so­ė. ||7|| O Nanak, the True Lord alone knows all. ||7|| ਸਭ ਘਟ ਤਿਸ ਕੇ ਓਹੁ ਕਰਨੈਹਾਰੁ ॥ Sabẖ gẖat ṯis kė oh karnaihār. All hearts are His; He is the Creator. ਸਦਾ ਸਦਾ ਤਿਸ ਕਉ ਨਮਸਕਾਰੁ ॥ Saḏā saḏā ṯis ka­o namaskār. Forever and ever, I bow to Him in reverence. ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕੀ ਉਸਤਤਿ ਕਰਹੁ ਦਿਨੁ ਰਾਤਿ ॥ Parabẖ kī usṯaṯ karahu ḏin rāṯ. Praise God, day and night. ਤਿਸਹਿ ਧਿਆਵਹੁ ਸਾਸਿ ਗਿਰਾਸਿ ॥ Ŧiseh ḏẖi­āvahu sās girās. Meditate on Him with every breath and morsel of food. ਸਭੁ ਕਛੁ ਵਰਤੈ ਤਿਸ ਕਾ ਕੀਆ ॥ Sabẖ kacẖẖ //ṯai ṯis kā kī­ā. Everything happens as He wills. ਜੈਸਾ ਕਰੇ ਤੈਸਾ ਕੋ ਥੀਆ ॥ Jaisā karė ṯaisā ko thī­ā. As He wills, so people become. ਅਪਨਾ ਖੇਲੁ ਆਪਿ ਕਰਨੈਹਾਰੁ ॥ Apnā kẖėl āp karnaihār. He Himself is the play, and He Himself is the actor. ਦੂਸਰ ਕਉਨੁ ਕਹੈ ਬੀਚਾਰੁ ॥ Ḏūsar ka­un kahai bīcẖār. Who else can speak or deliberate upon this?

The question has been on Board for quite sometime. It seems that no one is interested in the answer as the answer may raise many controversies on the Term 'Guru'. If the meaning of Guru is not clear to us how should we proceed further. If someone has to answer , it may kindly be done so elase this religion is also like Hinduism where Lord Krishan declares Himself as the God in Gita. Where is the difference between the two then.? No guru can be God as all of them came here thru. womb and all died like any other human being. Hence those Gurus cannot be all pervasive. Only God is all pervasive and omnipotent and omni present. Regards to all the sangat.

gur paramaesar eaek hai sabh mehi rehiaa samaae || The Guru and the Transcendent Lord are one and the same, pervading and permeating amongst all. Thank you waheguur ji. I am a sikh yes not a practicing one and intend to do the same.I wear Turban/keski and have 5k's like you wear. Dear Veer ji, kindly let me have the fair meaning assigned to the above tuk.I am asking in a plain language. I am also not giving the meaning that I assign to the Tuk.

Yes, Guru Nanak was only a mouth selected for 'waheguru', the guru or all Gurus i.e is "nature", the 'prakriti',The law that everything should be balanced is the God. Don't you agree.? God is unfathomable and cannot be seen and is One as per sikh philosophy.Can we discuss the Godhead in sikhism.I shall be very grateful.Kindly do not get annoyed the way I write.I have a working knowledge of sikhism and am trying to make concepts about your religion.I have learnt Gurmukhi but reading Dr. sahib Singh ji also does not make much sense to me right now as the entire bani is in the form of poetry. Regards

Obviously there seems to be no answer with the members on this aspect.However, let us noe forget the basic sikh philosophy based on Guru Nanak's Mool Mantra.I believe that Guru ji has not coined /phrased the Mool mantra for Himself? he was sent by The Almighty as per vaaran Gurdas ji for sending the god's word or bani. That was the purpse. Kindly post your views and ignore the previous post.

guru prmysru eyko jwxu ] gur paramaesar eaeko jaan || Know that the Guru and the Transcendent Lord are One. In the context of the above what would be the meaning of this 'tuk' as it seems to be interconnected. Thanks for helping me out. i think: without a true Guru (which we as sikhs are blessed with) nobody can find vahegurooo. Guru jee's meaning is like a teacher..someone to show us the way in this case...to show the way to vaahegurooo. the tuk is saying, without good karma u wont find him...... and without gurujee, without gurujees beauiful teachings, we can JOIN with vaheguroo. so gurujee allowes us to JOIN with vahegurooo through bani etc.this above tuk u've posted^^ yehh gurujee and vaheguroo are the same, they have the same jyot...... gurujee is like a form of vaheguroo showing us the way to merge with vaheguroo. hope that helped, sorry if im wrong. fateh yeap, thats right^^^^^^^. From the above it appears that Guru is God Himself. Guru is the creator.I hope it is that what is being implied. As all the gurus had common spirit we will Have Nanaks as the Lord Himself.? I hope it is that is meant? Kindly clarify. yes penje, im sure ur right guru prmysru eyku hY sB mih rihAw smwie ] gur paramaesar eaek hai sabh mehi rehiaa samaae || The Guru and the Transcendent Lord are one and the same, pervading and permeating amongst all. ijn kau pUrib iliKAw syeI nwmu iDAwie ] jin ko poorab likhiaa saeee naam dhhiaae || Those who have such pre-ordained destiny, meditate on the Naam. nwnk gur srxwgqI mrY n AwvY jwie ]4]30]100] naanak gur saranaagathee marai n aavai jaae ||4||30||100|| Nanak seeks the Sanctuary of the Guru, who does not die, or come and go in reincarnation. ||4||30||100|| rest of shabad--- http://www.sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=153 But it is against the sikh philosophy that God does not take Birth. 1.Burnt be the tongue that says that creator is born. 2. Guru's were with bodies. They could only be human beings. You are mistaken somehwre.Please re-think and post something that seems correct.We should also apply our brains sometime and gve bani the meaning that it deserves and not over inflate so much that it just bursts. The Sikh Gurus were perfect, and are described as such in the Sikh Scriptures. Guru Nanak himself says in Sri Rag: “Everybody else is subject to error, only the Guru and God are free from error.” Guru Arjun says in Bhairon: “Whoever you meet suffers from vices; without any defect is my true Guru, the Yogi.” The state of perfection attained by the Gurus is lucidly described in the eighth and the eighteenth octaves of Guru Arjan’s Sukhmani. The same Guru says in Asa: God does not die, nor do I fear death, He does not perish, nor do I grieve. He is not poor, nor do I have hunger. He has no pain, nor have I any trouble. There is no destroyer but God, Who is my life and who gives me life. He has no bond, nor have I got any. He has no entanglement, nor have I any care. As He is happy, so am I always rejoicing. He has no anxiety, nor have I any concern. As He is not defiled, so am I not polluted. As He has no craving, so do I covet nothing. He is pure and I too suit Him in this. I am nothing: He alone is everything. All around is the same He. Nanak, the Guru has destroyed all my superstition and defects, And I have become uniformly one with Him. Sikh Doctrines Regards

guru prmysru eyko jwxu ] gur paramaesar eaeko jaan || Know that the Guru and the Transcendent Lord are One. In the context of the above what would be the meaning of this 'tuk' as it seems to be interconnected. Thanks for helping me out. i think: without a true Guru (which we as sikhs are blessed with) nobody can find vahegurooo. Guru jee's meaning is like a teacher..someone to show us the way in this case...to show the way to vaahegurooo. the tuk is saying, without good karma u wont find him...... and without gurujee, without gurujees beauiful teachings, we can JOIN with vaheguroo. so gurujee allowes us to JOIN with vahegurooo through bani etc.this above tuk u've posted^^ yehh gurujee and vaheguroo are the same, they have the same jyot...... gurujee is like a form of vaheguroo showing us the way to merge with vaheguroo. hope that helped, sorry if im wrong. fateh yeap, thats right^^^^^^^. From the above it appears that Guru is God Himself. Guru is the creator.I hope it is that what is being implied. As all the gurus had common spirit we will Have Nanaks as the Lord Himself.? I hope it is that is meant? Kindly clarify.

I am surely seeking guidance. Oh! I should have put i a question Mark. Is 'shabad' the othername of 'Naam'.? Is 'waheguru' Naam for us or Is it again something else. Sorry, there is some diversion in the essence of the thread. OK. I shall post my questions through some Hukimnamas. He Himself is the Yogi, and the way throughout the ages. The Fearless Lord Himself is absorbed in Samaadhi. He Himself, all by Himself, is all-pervading; He Himself blesses us with sincere love for the Naam, the Name of the Lord. || 1 || He Himself is the lamp, and the Light pervading all the worlds. He Himself is the True Guru; He Himself churns the ocean. He Himself churns it, churning up the essence; meditating on the jewel of the Naam, sincere love comes to the surface. || 2 || O my companions, let us meet and join together, and sing His Glorious Praises. As Gurmukh, chant the Naam, and earn the profit of the Lords Name. Devotional worship of the Lord, Har, Har, has been implanted within me; it is pleasing to my mind. The Name of the Lord, Har, Har, brings a sincere love.|| 3 || He Himself is supremely wise, the greatest King. As Gurmukh, purchase the merchandise of the Naam. O Lord God, Har, Har, bless me with such a gift, that Your Glorious Virtues seem pleasing to me; Nanak is filled with sincere love and yearning for the Lord. || 4 || 4 || 10 ||

'Shabad' here refers to 'Naam' or the shabad are GuruVaak i.e. Bani.? Kindly clarify. Is our Guru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji or the First nanak and hence the Nanaks , as , all shared common spirit. Thanks

guru prmysru eyko jwxu ] gur paramaesar eaeko jaan || Know that the Guru and the Transcendent Lord are One. In the context of the above what would be the meaning of this 'tuk' as it seems to be interconnected. Thanks for helping me out.

ivxu krmw hir jIau n pweIAY ibnu siqgur mnUAw n lgY ] (1098-5, mwrU, mÚ 5) Without good karma, the Dear Lord is not found; without the True Guru, the mind is not joined to Him. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- In the above line we have reference to 1.Lord. 2.True Guru. Are these two different? Kindly explain.

ivxu krmw hir jIau n pweIAY ibnu siqgur mnUAw n lgY ] (1098-5, mwrU, mÚ 5) Without good karma, the Dear Lord is not found; without the True Guru, the mind is not joined to Him. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- In the above line we have reference to 1.Lord. 2.True Guru. Are these two different? Kindly explain.

I shall be highly obliged if someone canexplain the concept of a saint as per bani.The term appears in Bani at many places. Could some member throw some light on the subject? Regards

ang946 ਹਿਰਦਾ ਦੇਹ ਨ ਹੋਤੀ ਅਉਧੂ ਤਉ ਮਨੁ ਸੁੰਨਿ ਰਹੈ ਬੈਰਾਗੀ ॥ हिरदा देह न होती अउधू तउ मनु सुंनि रहै बैरागी ॥ Hirḏā ḏėh na hoṯī a*oḏẖū ṯa*o man sunn rahai bairāgī. When the heart and the body did not exist, O hermit, then the mind resided in the absolute, detached Lord. I have put here another line from bani.One may kindly like to go thru. and advise so that we arrive at a consensus. Regards

Japmans ji, Kindly accept my gratitude for the work that you have done for me. I am very grateful. I am a querist and have no knowledge and how can i disagree. a person is in the state of disagrement if he has a knowledge. I do not have knowledge in these matters. All that troubles me ,sometimes, as to so much has been stated in respect of mind in bani and i know nothing about it. Mind is intangible ,yes, it is the way we have learnt the things. But Bani clearly states that mind is of five elements. The basic elements ,it is only here that one gets confused. For a person like me it is difficult to conceptualize. hope u appreciate my foolishness. Regards.

Summing up in a line all that you have said about mind is that it is a aprt of Brain only i.e of five elements and is subjected to life and death.