GDD

Sarbloh, I agree with alot of waht you are saying. However, for any of this to happen we need to hold some sort of conference or "jor mela" to discuss this. There are some of us that will quote the akaal takht sandesh everytime beadbi is shouted out yet will follow a seperate maryada when it comes to everything else and actually dismiss akaal takat altogether. We can't pick and choose as we are doing presently. These "shouters" will say that Jathedars of akaal takhat have to be elected via "Sarbat Khalsa" and then quote sandesh's line by line by jathedar's that they clearly dismiss. Don't get me wrong I have nothing agasint akaal takhat maryada at all niether do I lean against any specific maryada. I have stood back and watched whats happened in the last few years and what have I found? The EXACT same thing that we hate is happening amongst us. We are becomimg politically motivated groups of "gursikhs" just like our fathers and grandfathers in Gurdwara committees (not a generalisation on all committees). It's become about who's got the clout and muscle more than who is actually right. Bullying committees, other Gursikhs etc etc isn't and should never have been the way these issues were tackled. Some points to consider: Guru Nanak Dev Ji travelled all over Asia/middle east, they took parchcar to where it was needed. Guru Gobind Singh Jee stood outside a brothel to prevent Bhai Joga from being inticed to going in. This is what our Guru's did people! They didn't sit on a takhat and do nothing! There are too many of us that are narrow minded and can't see outside their heads. Anyone of us that shouts BEADBI and protests should be able to respond to questions like these posed to them. Apologies for jumping here and there!

Vaahiguroo jee kaa Khalsaa!!! Vaahiguroo jee kee Fathe!!! Sad sangat jee, lets have a serious debate on this issue. There are many of us who will shout the term "BEADBI!!!" at a drop of a hat without knowing what's going on with a situation. There are alot more of us that will jump on the BEADBI bandwagon without knowing anything about an issue and there are even more of us that will talk about BEADBI and actually do nothing about it. So first of all, decide which category you fall into. If you're in the first then I'm afraid you are the source of fake text messages an emails that get spammed across sikh websites and emails. You manage create havok and cause a huge amount of pain and distress for the people alledgedly causing the beadbi...I use the term alledgedly because YOU don't know anything about the situation, given your category. If your in the second group then you that person that forwards all the emails and text messages because "your mate" has sent it to you without you actually finding out what going on. Is that you? Have you gone out of your way to find out about whats going on with each situation? If you're in the final category then I'm afraid your a little ignorant or you don't want to be involved in what you may think is "politics" amongst what is now a topic dominated by sikh youth (unfortunatley). Now that we have categorised ourselves lets ask the question of what beadbi is assuming sucham is not an issue and cleanliness has been top priority. 1. Is it taking Maharaaj (Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee) to a tent in a field/park BEADBI? (Nishkam Sevak Jatha and "Kirtan in the park" event) 2. Is taking Maharaaj to a tent in an activity centre BEADBI? (BOSS/SIKHI CAMP) 3.Is taking Maharaaj to army barrocks BEADBI? (BOSS & KHALSA CAMP) 4. Is taking Maharaaj to a school for a gurpurb programme BEADBI? (recent event in East London held by a Gurdwara). 5. Is taking Maharaaj around you local area BEADBI? (NAGAR KIRTANS) 6. Is taking maharaj to conference centres BEADBI (weddings/hotels/halls and eg the NEC BIRMINGHAM where a certain jatha took Maharaaj) I have nothing against any organisation that does sikhi parchar and we can see that some of the above examples are parcharik issues. However, why do we have a problem with some of the above, and take a stand, and not the others? I wil take the Gurdwara taking Maharaaj to a local school as an example. There was sucham, everything was cleaned thoroughly and Maryada was upheld (or would have been upheld if Maharaaj was taken to the school and 80 banday not turned up to bully the Gurdwara). Gursikhs in southall (one of which was a teacher and had passed away recently) took Maharaaj to schools and did parchar all the time! Dhan are these Gursikhs I say! Why did "we" as a group of young Gursikhs have a problem with this issue and not others like camps/parks/barrocks? There have been times when campers have found cigarette butts on premises where Maharaaj has been taken for camps, times when bars have been on the same premises has Maharaaj. Wheres the logic in all this sangat jee? I find it very difficult to understand how we can have such double standards. Camps do GREAT parchar....no doubt about it. But why don't we stand against camps that are held in army barrock (lets not be niave - we know what happens at army barrocks, sharaab, tobacco and alot more). What about tents/marquees? Lets not even mention wedding halls! (Before anyone jumps on this point and this point alone let me make clear that I am against this TOTALLY) Why the double standards? Bhul chuk maaf I am not a very good speller! Vaahiguroo jee kaa Khalsaa!!! Vaahiguroo jee kee Fathe!!!

erm....guys what about those that shouted beadbi a few months ago at the school not being allowed to have Maharaaj? The singhs there kept absolute sucham but were bullied into not taking maharaaj by 80 so called "gursikhs" most of whome were tricked into coming down by being lied to with fabricated stories. I went to boss camp....i loved it....but no more double standards. Stop the camp if your gonna stop other forms of parchar, one rule for all. If we bend the rules we're no better than the corrupt "officials" that call themselves the leaders of the panth. Take this seriously, and if you find yourselves thinking "yea but this if different, its parchar" then you've just felt like the sikhs that tried to do parchar at the school. And if you still find yourself justifying it then you've just bent the rules to suit yourself and not Guru Jee. Fateh

When you try and talk to these guys it goes in one ear and out of the other. They're just not willing to listen to ANY counter arguement and can't answer your questions. When you mention the camps issue they're like "na man thats a different issue, you can't bring that up!" and get all aggressive. Why can't we bring that up? Some of these guys go to GNNSJ events in the parks...how hypocritical! When they were approached and asked these questions they had no answer. They'll tell you what they say Maharaaj says without a single tuk (quote) from Gurbani ie they'll make it up in english to suit their purpose...thats galt man, totally, THATS BEADBI. The way they intimidated that Gurdwara committee into making a decision was WRONG. To target their families was WRONG. These are people that grew up at that Gurdwara! This gurdwarai inspired at least one of them to become kesdahri - I heard it from his own mouth! We need to put a stop to all this double standard nonsense. I expect to see them ALL at camps that are held away from Gurdwarai this year. How do you respond to kids and parents when they ask why Maharaaj Guru Granth Sahib Ji wasn't present at the event? So many faces dropped, so many were udaas (sad). Kids form other dharams were saying "so where's your Guru?" Sache paathshaa bring some mutt into these people.

This was the PRESS RELEASE email sent to me on behalf of Gurdwara. Hard copies are available from the Gurdwara. 28th January 2008 Vaahiguroo Jee Kaa Khalsaa Vaahiguroo Jee Kee Fateh Sadh sangat jee, Gurdwara Dasmesh Darbar would like to present the following facts in order to clear any malicious rumours being spread by a hateful minority, concerning the event celebrating the Gurpurb of Guru Gobind Singh jee in the gym at Little Ilford School, Manor Park. Fact: the school has made it clear that the gym has NEVER been hired out on any occasion to the public. The rumours spread through the internet and via text messages state that the gym could have been used for parties; could, being the operative word. Fact: the gym has been inspected by Panj Singhs and there is nothing that could be regarded as disrespectful or a lack of Satkaar for Guru Jee or Maryada. Constant abusive phone calls received by the Gurdwara were entirely uncalled for. The language used by third parties was not that of so-called “gursikhs.” Moreover, receiving threatening behaviour, both on the phone and in person only fuels the situation further. Arriving at the Gurdwara in intimidating numbers and behaving threateningly is counter-productive. Preparations have been made at the school gym to ensure the utmost Satkaar of Guru Granth Sahib Jee. It is very easy for a minority of petty individuals to use the word “beadbi” for any occasion which they see fit. There is no beadbi here. The Akaal Takhat Hukamnama and Sandesh clearly state when and where Guru Ji should not be taken - there has never been any alcohol or meat consumed in the gym. We suggest the individuals concerned read these two documents. Maharaaj is regularly taken to tents in parks or fields, to assembly halls and army barracks, for nawjwaan camps and samagams. How clean is a park where people may roam freely smoking and drinking? How clean is an army base or a training centre where alcohol has knowingly been consumed? Yet we don’t see any of these particular individuals preventing “beadbi” from happening under these circumstances. Please do not misunderstand us, we support all Sikh camps and events across the world, they are doing something positive; PARCHAAR. Clearly, these individuals do not see the value of parchaar, and see this event as a mere excuse to cause trouble by falsely claiming beadbi of Maharaaj. We are absolutely certain that these so-called “saviours of the panth” will not be attempting to prevent such camps from occurring, so why in this case should the rules be any different? Sadh sangat jee, today is a very sad day. Today, Gurdwara Dasmesh Darbar regrets to inform the sangat that Maharaaj Guru Granth Granth Sahib Jee will not be present at the event celebrating Guru Gobind Singh Jee’s Gurpurb. We have taken this decision to prevent the disrespect of Maharaaj Guru Granth Sahib Jee by this group while taking Maharaaj to the event. Additionally, with the media present the reputation and portrayal of the Sikh community would also be damaged. We understand that some youngsters may have been lead astray by a mere few and we urge them to think twice before assuming a position based on rumours started by a minority. Bhul Chuk Maaf, Gurdwara Dasmesh Darbar East London

There were key people from R4G that turned up to protest. We won't name names but I don't know why we shouldn't as the pardaan's name was mentioned in a previous thread without any moderators note.

What about the "kirtan in the park" event? What about Nishkaam sevak jatha holding smagams in parks? What about people's houses? What about the the mel (dirt) within ourselves - yet we still carry maharaaj on our heads don't we? Where do we stop?

Waheguru Jee Ka Khalsa waheguru Jee kee Fateh If stopping a gurdwara taking Maharaaj to a school for pracharik reasons is beadbi then so is taking maharaaj to national camps. There are camps held in training centres and army barrocks all over the country - I don't disagree with camps at all, im all for them because they are doing parchar - but we all know what goes on at army bases, sharaab and tobacco consumption. Why don't we hold these camps at Gurdwaray? Capacity isn't a problem at alot of Gurdwaray, and if it is then isn't it best to put Maharaaj first and not hold a camp rather than risk "beadbi" at an army base/training centre? Recent camps have been held on premises where cigarette butts have been found on the floor, where there have been bars on the same premises. Why do we choose to ignore these issues? Is it because these camps are backed by jathebandia that have a lot of clout and backing? Is it becuase we ourselves are part of these jathbandia? Where do we draw the line? R4G started off well...but I don't think even they are able to control a minority groups that are shouting "beadbi" every two days. Their reputation is being damaged by these few small minded people. Don't get me wrong, I have stood with R4G in the past and I have alot of respect for them, but there is no room for double standards anymore. Any word that is used too much again and again loses it value and thats what has happened to the word "beadbi". When you say it people turn off and aren't willing to listen anymore because its a term used for everything these days. We need to concentrate on our paath, our own jeevans before we start pointing fingers at other people. Do we earn an honest living? Do we make money by bending the rules? Can we think for ourselves without having anyone blowing in our ear and influencing us before we can make a decision on what beadbi is? Singhs in the dal take Maharaaj everywhere with them. Prachariks like Mahapursh Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh Khalsa Bhindranwale took Maharaaj from pind to pind to do katha and parchar. Have we forgotten how great these people were? How great this seva was. Did Guru Gobind Singh Ji not stand outside a brothel to prevent Bhai Joga Singh from being enticed to going in? Was that beadbi? How many more stories do we need to hear about our sikh girls running off with muslims before we take serious action? Is that not "beadbi" of the panth? It sure is. Where there's a parchaar issue think before you forward text messages and emails containing lies. This minority of small minded people are pumping up the sangat with lies when they want to take personal vendettas against committees when they don't gert their own way. I am not against any parcharik issues or any camps, clearly taking Maharaaj to a hall where sharab etc is being served is wrong and we should take action, and rightly so. But the recent fuss about a school gym which had never been hired out for any reason was going too far. Wake up people. Don't make the rules up as you go along. Think before being used as puppets by a small minority that use the words "beadbi" and call themselves R4G when clearly they are a splinter group and not part of that organisation. Waheguru Jee Ka Khalsa waheguru Jee kee Fateh

I think we need to read the hukamnama and sandesh before we start topics like like. If we can't read punjabi then we need to learn. There's also no point in shouting about beadbi if we don't know how to do Maharaaj di seva ourselves. Can everyone who shouts "beadbi" do Mharaaj da Prakash or Sukh asan? If you cannot then i suggest you learn before telling other people how they should treat Maharaaj. Its very easy for alot of people to follow hukamnamai and sandesh issued by akaal takhat jathedar's that weren't even bought into power with "Sarbat Khalsa". They were bought into power by the SGPC. The last Sarbat Khalsa was in the 1980's. We're playing the same political games as our elders always have, and we're not learning. Please don't pick and choose your fights, ask the people of punjab if they want a seperate independent state first, cos its easy for us to sit here in front of our computers in pardesa and shout narai about Khalistan.