Pyara

I agree, over the last few years there seem to be an influx of "rude boys and rude girls" coming into the fold.

It might be schools and colleges now, these kids with wrong attitudes have a misconception that you can mess around and then capitalise on the GurSikh image.

Its our fault, we pushed these kids to take Amrit at camps by fastrack parchar and then don't support or do anything to sustain a Gurmat lifestyle for them.

Only 10 donations come on.

What's worse is the promo video has had almost 1700 views on YouTube...but 1984 has become cheap entertainment for Gursikhs. Even if each viewer gave £5 each the target would have been reached...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8UcwMBwfAE&feature=plcp

Support the work being done by Seva84 (www.Seva84.com)

Only 3 donations so far despite 329 YouTube views of the promo...

http://www.christian...munities-83995/

Following Jesus Yet Still Hindu or Sikh?

CHICAGO – It doesn't sound right: someone claiming to be both a follower of Jesus Christ while still identifying himself as a Hindu or Sikh. But some respected missiologists are defending the new communities in India called Yeshu Satsang as biblical.

Formed as a direct response to broken relationships that Hindus or Sikhs in India who convert to Christianity often must endure, members of Yeshu Satsangs seek to follow the Bible while still retaining their cultural identity as Hindu or Sikh, and thus retaining harmonious relationships with their family members and community. The communities are also a pushback against Western ways of worshipping Jesus that is seen as "other" and foreign to the community. A Yeshu Satsang can loosely be defined as a gathering of Jesus followers whose members are socially still identified as Hindus or Sikhs.

"Even though [they have] rejected the word and practices of church, they have retained a theological identity of church while seeking to retain their Hindu and Sikh socio-religious identity," explained Darren Duerksen, director and assistant professor of Intercultural Studies at Fresno Pacific University, at the recent North American Mission Leaders Conference in Chicago.

The Yeshu Satsang leaders Duerksen – who spent six years in India as a missionary and scholar – had met all come from Hindu or Sikh background, and were discipled in Christian churches or parachurch organizations, he shared during the breakout session titled "Must Insiders be Churchless? Exploring 'Insiders' models of 'church.'" Some of these Indian leaders started Yeshu Satsangs after reaching an understanding that distinguishes between the Hindu or Sikh ideology and their commitment to Jesus.

These gatherings started some seven to eight years ago, and Yeshu Satsangs are concentrated mostly in Northwest India. Although there is no official count of how many Yeshu Satsangs there are in India, Duerksen estimates that there are at least 40 but less than 100 of these groups, each with at most 15 to 20 members.

The missions professor, in general, defended the Yeshu Satsangs that he had observed in India, and advised fellow missions leaders to consider the following points when making judgment about the new communities:

• Is the local church incarnational? Does it reflect Jesus?

• Is the community of believers committed to each other and Christ?

• How do the Yeshu Satsangs seek to shape their socio-religious identity? How do they negotiate their identity within Hindu and Sikh communities?

"Each of these Yeshu Satsangs emphasizes the teachings of Jesus as part of the path of following him," said Duerksen. "The Bible, for example, is seen and honored as God's word. It is given a high level of authority. Even where Yeshu Satsangs have a respect for the Hindu and Sikh scriptures, the Bible is emphasized as a higher and the ultimate authority. The Bible is used therefore throughout the Yeshu Satsang meetings. The leaders encourage their people to have their own and to read it on their own during their week."

Different Religious Practices

While these Jesus followers that Duerksen observed identify themselves as Hindu or Sikh while following the teachings of the Bible, they freely change the Christian religious practices to be more in line with those in their community. For example, instead of using bread and wine or grape juice for communion, Yeshu Satsangs often modify the Christian sacrament and use a coconut and coconut milk.

Baptism, in particular, is a sensitive area for Yeshu Satsangs because the groups' leaders feel that it has taken extra-biblical meaning by the way Indian churches conduct them. Baptism of former Hindus or Sikhs is often seen by the church as well as local Indian governments as a change in socio-religious status, with some local governments even imposing a separate set of laws for Christians on the newly baptized. However, while Yeshu Satsangs do baptize new followers of Jesus, they don't ask them to change their social-religious communities. Moreover, they often don't call the practice baptism, but use a more culturally familiar term, such as those used for initiation of disciples by a guru.

"So thus, Yeshu Satsangs leaders use the Bible, practice the Lord's Supper, and baptism in ways that reflect their devotion to Jesus but also seek to minimize some of the otherness in the eyes of Hindus and Sikhs," explained Duerksen.

Also, Yeshu Satsangs sing songs call bhajans that are similar to Hindu bhajans, which promote a Hindu identity to their neighbors while also helping them praise God without cultural barriers, said the Fresno Pacific professor. Indian Christians who attend traditional churches sing Western hymns or Western-style songs, instead.

But one of the more controversial practices of Yeshu Satsangs is that its members still go to Hindu or Sikh temples. The satsang members discuss and decide among themselves which temple events are permissible to attend. Satsang members also will sometimes accept prasad, or food that is offered to Hindu gods. Some of them will accept the offered food to be polite and later discard it when the giver is out of sight, while some will also eat the prasad.

Christian churches in India strictly teach that converts cannot accept or eat offered food, but Yeshu Satsang members are more flexible in their teaching on this issue, trying to balance their desire to maintain relationships with their community while also following Jesus. There is no hard and fast rule among Yeshu Satsangs regarding prasad. Yeshu Satsangs do not accept idolatry, however, but they usually allow members a longer time to stop idol worship, waiting for them to mature and naturally understand through Bible studies.

Relationship With Wider Christian Community

Many Yeshu Satsangs, given the reason why they started, do not actively seek to fellowship with churches in their area in India. Yeshu Satsangs were formed out of what they felt was Indian churches' cultural insensitivity and thus are reluctant to also closely identify themselves with Christian churches. This leads some mission leaders to criticize these communities for their apparent isolation from the wider Christ-following community.

"This is an important point, but in this critique we need to be careful not to hold the Yeshu Satsangs or any other beginning insider groups to a standard higher than we hold to our churches and denominations," warned Duerksen.

He noted that in Western Christianity there are many examples of churches cutting ties with other churches over differences in practices and doctrines.

"Even in contemporary times, various denominations remain highly isolated from and suspect of other churches," he pointed out. "And while we would lament this and urge for greater levels of trust and cooperation, the identity of such denominations as churches would rarely be questioned on the basis of their trust towards others."

Relationship With the Hindu or Sikh Community

Unlike Jesus followers who attend Christian churches in India, those who are part of Yeshu Satsangs tell their family members that they love Jesus but have not changed their religion.

"Religion in this case is understood not so much as doctrines, philosophies or ideologies, but rather as part of the community and its culture," explains Duerksen. "The satsangs are thus arguing that they can stay within their Sikh and Hindu communities, while changing the focus of their personal devotion to Jesus."

Duerksen gave an example of one satsang leader identified as Ravi who says he is not a Christian, but a Hindu, even though he is devoted to Jesus. Ravi would defend his Hindu identity even though he follows Jesus by saying, "On my birth form it is written: Hindu. And I live in Hindu style and I speak Hindi. That is why I am a Hindu. Also, Hindu is not a religion, it is a community."

Hindus are permitted to pray and give devotions to deities of other communities and still call themselves Hindus, Ravi would point out.

"The Yeshu Satsangs are, or seeking to be, subgroups within the Hindu and Sikh communities, while being church in the theological sense," the professor said. "This is clear that the Yeshu Satsangs are pioneering something that is generally quite unique and important to their context and are attracting people who may not otherwise follow Jesus within the context of the Christian church."

He continued, "It is too early to say whether or not this model of church will result in a wider movement of Christ followers in India. However, at the very least there is reason to encourage the development of Christ communities that adhere to the biblical contours of church while socially reflecting India's rich identities."

Former Hindu Turned Pastor and Missiologist Weigh In

While Duerksen mostly praised and defended the Yeshu Satsangs based on his experience, former Hindu and now Pastor Ananth Kumar of First Baptist Church of Rahway in New Jersey had a less favorable opinion.

Kumar, who is a Southern Baptist, shared with The Christian Post during the Chicago mission conference that he had visited a Yeshu Satsang in Toronto, Canada that was "shocking" to him. He described the setting as having more flowers, candlesticks and fruits than he had seen in Hindu temples. Kumar said that he felt the over-contextualizing of the satsang could lead to "danger." He noted there was no cross in the building where the satsang demonstration was given, and there was a picture of Jesus with a candle in front of his photo as well as milk and sliced bananas. A photo of Mary and baby Jesus was also on display.

"Hindus coming to satsangs and seeing that think, 'Oh, they are doing exactly the same thing that I am, so what is the difference between my temple and this Christian satsang," the former Hindu asked. "That is exactly what happened in Toronto."

He informed CP that he asked the satsang leaders how long they have been holding satsangs and how many people have dedicated their life to Christ. The leaders replied that they have been holding such gatherings for several years and there have been zero conversion, zero baptism, and no commitment, according to Kumar.

The former-Hindu-turned-preacher was also disturbed that at the satsang in Toronto they used the word Bhagwan, which is a term for God that is not biblical, as well as Ishwar, which is used by practicing Hindus to also refer to God.

"This is really wrong," Kumar said of the satsang he witnessed in Toronto. "We definitely didn't feel the presence of God at all … you are totally compromising to Hindu songs. There were no words of yeshu, Jesus was not mentioned in those songs."

For the communion, the satsang leaders in Toronto put a slice of banana in the participants' palm and dropped milk on it.

"That is totally wrong. That is completely being practiced by Hindus. If I am Hindu in Bombay or Toronto or somewhere, and I practice same thing as communion, then what is the difference between my temple and this Christian satsang?" he asked. "I rather continue to not bother my relatives, not bother religion and not offend anyone. So just let me continue as a Hindu."

He recalled his own Holy Communion experience. He had heard the Gospel for two or three months at that time and asked a church leader if he could take part in communion. But the leader asked if he had confessed his sins and received the Lord yet. He said no, and was guided on how to do that.

"That day, I closed my eyes, I knelt, I cried, I wept when I saw Christ being crucified. So that was a turning point," recalled Kumar. "So that communion is very important. Communion is fundamental basis of our Christian faith. You cannot compromise that communion with other form used by other religions. Communion is very sacred, that is why we call it Holy Communion. You cannot compromise it with a piece of banana and milk."

But Greg Parsons, global director of the U.S. Center for World Mission, cautioned against judging a whole movement by one or a few examples.

"I think the most important first thing to realize is these movements are all over the map doctrinally," said Parsons to CP. "So you can't judge one by another."

"So if these movements are coming to Christ, and they are focused on the Bible, then they will likely straighten out. If they are not, then they probably won't. And that is the principle of McGavern (Donald McGavern, 20th century missiologist), that the key thing to look at in a movement is, is the Bible central as the authority to them or something else? If the Bible is central, then they will likely get straightened out as they spend more time with the Bible."

Read more at http://www.christian...4eTROv1RwrUg.99

The Widows Colony documentary never got the global exposure it deserved. Partly blame the production company for holding a too tight hold on the distribution rights.

This documentary is highly likely to gain global exposure as it's distributed as part of the objectives of Seva84, I have seen some more of the footage and am convinced that the documentary will raise the profile of the aftermath of November 84 as well as the severity of the what happened to the mainstream.

It might be 28 years too late, but at this stage we so desparetly need to archive the testimonies and emotions of the victims whilst they are still alive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8UcwMBwfAE

http://www.justgiving.com/Seva84documentary

I must admit, I am not very fond of Lord Singh but got to give him credit for this...

Name the Gurdwara which has had 18 of these ceremonies performed in just one month. There's a serious issue with the committee and local sangat in that area which needs to be addressed. There's not even enough weekends in August, they must having been performing 5 weddings a weekend....

Interesting stats. However, I do find the 40% of Gurdwara weddings being inter-faith hard to believe, that's 2 in every 5 Anand Karaj's performed. That's a significant portion, which means we would all see these marriages happening in our extended families.

What's the source of the stats and have the stats being skewed by being taken from one specific Gurdwara or region. Presenting unsubstantiated stats will just brush the issue off as an exaggeration. I am not saying we haven't got a problem with the exploitation of the Anand Karaj's by Ragi, Granthis, Committees and Families. But it would be worth commissioning a credible statician to collate some real data around this.

In response to my respected veer Tuhuda Daas' comments above,

The seminar which took place on 20 October 2012 will be uploaded on YouTube and will be shown on the Sikh Channel in the next few days. You can see the content of what was presented. In my view, Harinder Singh spoke at a very inspiring and pro-panthic level. I don’t know enough about the 90s and the above points but what he presented to an audience of around 150 young Sikhs was contextual, relevant and invigorating.

More or less every high-profile parcharak comes with a string of allegations or dissimilarities on view points, maryada, interpretations of Gurbani and ithaas. I don’t know how much of the above is true or is spin.

Over the last 28 years we have remained stagnant because we try to follow a standard pattern or formula; we haven’t realised what we’re really supposed to do, and we have never reached the potential where we are really supposed to go to. That’s because we can only see dissimilarities in each other. In order to progress forward, I feel we must concentrate on the strengths of people in our kaum, by finding out what’s unique about the person and capitalise on it. Harinder Singh posses an articulate ability to present modern history (particularly events leading to 1984) in a meaningful and objective way. No one else is currently able to do that, no Jathedar, no Baba, no Mukhi, no ordained Kathavachak. For that reason I feel there is a strong resource there for us all to tap into and shape our understanding of our own history.

Who's distributing the film in then UK? Not seen any local publicity yet.

If he loved and respected Sikhi he wouldn't have taken it so far as well, but ultimately you should have also known where to draw the line. So, now you have to fight your internal battle and decide if you really want a Gursikh jeevan which means you need discipline or you simply just want to carry on with the guilty feeling of letting yourself down. Asking for "forgiveness" is meaningless unless you know what you really want your life to be based around...At this stage, I don't think you know...whats to say this will not happen again?

The best thing to do is grow up, face up to your responsibilities, get married and start a Sikhi life together (if Sikhi is that important to you). If you guys remain in the current relationship then you'll just end up doing things you keep regretting.

http://www.thisishullandeastriding.co.uk/Boy-shot-Sikh-temple-west-Hull/story-17088779-detail/story.html

Boy shot at Sikh temple in west Hull

Tuesday, October 16, 2012

Police in Hull are appealing for witnesses after a teenage boy was accused of firing an air pistol at a Sikh temple.

The windows of the temple in Parkfield Drive, west Hull, were shattered when the pistol was fired at around 6pm on Saturday, October 13.

Two youths were reported to have been outside the temple at the time and it is believed one of them was carrying an air pistol which he then fired at the door of the building.

The youths are white, aged between 13 and 14 and were reported to have run off in the direction of Anlaby Road following the shooting.

The youth seen to be carrying the air weapon is described as having red hair and was wearing a blue jacket and blue jeans.

The other boy was slim and wearing brown clothing.

Anyone who knows anything in relation to the shooting should call Humberside Police on 101.

http://www.sikh24.co...r/#.UHuhLsVG-vY

UK Gurdwara ‘Beer Festival’ creates a stir

By: Sikh24 Editors

HUDDERSFIELD, West Yorkshire, UK (October 14, 2012)–A Beer Festival took place from 4^th to 6^thOctober at the ‘Sikh Leisure Centre’ on Prospect Street in Huddersfeld. Numerous posts on the Internet and YouTube videos of the Beer Festival filmed by participants linked the Beer Festival to the Sikh Gurdwara that stands opposite the Sikh Leisure Centre. The Beer Festival taking place in a Leisure Centre which is associated to the Gurdwara which is situated directly opposite to it and is known as the ‘Sikh’ Leisure Centre has created a stir within the wider Sikh community.

The above Internet site and YouTube video clearly makes no distinction between the Sikh Leisure Centre and the Gurdwara. Whether the Leisure Centre has officially changed its name to ‘Apna Venue’ and it ‘officially’ tried to distance itself from being associated the Gurdwara – the fact remains that 1) the venue has been in the past funded by the Sikh Sangat, 2) in the past the venue has been under the management of the Gurdwara Committee and 3) the general public associates the hall even now to the Sikh community and Gurdwara.

It is irresponsible of the venue management that they allowed such an event to take place when firstly, drinking alcohol is a strict taboo in the Sikh faith which leads to apostasy, and secondly, alcohol is a great health concern not only for the Punjabi community living in Britain but for wider society. The Sikh community whether it is working under the name of the Gurdwara or a venue should be working to promote Sikh ethics, good health and values that better society rather than bring destruction and misery to society.

When members of the wider Sikh community contacted the Gurdwara Sahib, they failed to see what the problem was and claimed that the venue was independent from the Gurdwara Sahib. Rather than seek to promote the Sikh faith, it seems the Gurdwara Committee is happy to play ignorant and see no wrongdoing in the promotion of alcohol opposite the Guru’s Darbaar.

Looks worthwhile watching and promoting. Are the character's fictional?

Sikh Civil Rights Movement

Saturday 20 October | 6.30pm - 8.30pm | Gurdwara Singh Sabha Barking, 100 North Street, Barking, Essex. IG11 8JD

2012 marks 30 years since the start of the Dharam Yudh Morcha which saw thousands of Sikhs court arrest and imprisonment for the pursuit of civil rights in Panjab. Explore the Dharam Yudh Morcha within the context of similar Sikh-inspired movements for social, religious, economic and political equality since the time of Guru Nanak Sahib, and how these movements can be revived in current realities.

Seminar will be hosted by Harinder Singh of Sikh Research Institute (SikhRI) and organised by National Sikh Youth Federation (NSYF) in conjunction with Singh Sabha London East.

How was the show? I missed it and didn't set up the sky plus properly... Did Sangat TV allow Sarabjt Singh & guests to speak openly?

Called Gurughar number above. Got usual response that the hall is run by a separate committee... blah blah blah...has local government funding so is really owned by the council... blah blah blah. I asked then why they called it the "Sikh" Leisure centre if it's owned by the council but didn't get a response from him. Short call, wasn't really willing to discuss further.

Usual rubbish. Just another UK Gurdwara Hall used for manmat.

http://www.kirklees.gov.uk/community/localorgs/orgdetails.asp?OrgID=2217

Looks likes the Beer Festival was in the Sikh Leisure Centre, Huddersfield which appears to be the Gurdwara run hall, behind the Darbar Sahib and therefore locally affiliated as part of the Sikh Temple. The blog below refers to the the beer festival being at the Sikh Temple as there is clearly no distinction between the Sikh Leisure Centre and the Guru Ghar.

http://lillands.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/camra-beer-fest-sikh-temple-huddersfield.html

http://www.sitatrust.org.uk/projects/sikh-leisure

As per the above video, Huddersfield Sikh Temple seem to be hosting Beer festivals... What the @&!# is happening in Huddersfield?

I wouldn't worry too much yet. No one gives crap about FB and it is only the Inidan Media that is plastering their papers with nonsense !!! Until all this sh** starts appearing in mainstream British media in the headlines we should all just chill !!!!! Freshy Indians just haven't got a clue lolll !!!!

Have you seen their news channels LOLLL, their must be some Bollywood producers working for them channels the way they report...

Anyways stay Tyar Bar Tyar Singhs and Singhaniya !!!! Stick to Bani and Baana and no one can break us !!!!!!!!

With all due respect, the malicious noise Indian media are making is pretty loud and needs to be combated by our so far silent media voice. Effective audience in India of 1.2 Billion ( estimated 30 million NRIs and PIOs spread across the globe) . The population of world is estimated around 6.9 Billion which means 17% of the world can be influenced by the crass Indian media, that’s a powerful reach for these anti Sikh lies to spread.

If we chill then we continuously sink. We have chilled for too long and now have an underdeveloped global voice to take the anti-Sikh Indian media on. This needs to change.

The latest drivel in the Hindustan Times...

http://www.hindustantimes.com/Punjab/Chandigarh/Memorial-at-Golden-Temple-will-reopen-Sikhs-wounds-Gen-Brar/SP-Article1-941746.aspx

Memorial at Golden Temple will reopen Sikhs' wounds: Lt Gen KS Brar

Ramesh Vinayak, Hindustan Times

Mumbai, October 08, 2012

Lieutenant General (retd) Kuldip Singh Brar, the only surviving commander of Operation Bluestar, fears that the upcoming memorial to the army action in Harmandar Sahib in Amritsar may not only become a rallying point for radicals but also reopen the Sikh community's wounds of the

past.

"A larger section of the Sikhs has put the trauma of Operation Bluestar behind, but I am afraid it wouldn't take longer for that section to get smaller and for some of it to get to the side of radicals," said Lt Gen Brar in the course of an exclusive interview with Hindustan Times at his high-security residence here on Wednesday.

The 78-year-old general, who shot into the headlines following an audacious assassination attempt on him in London on September 30 by suspected pro-Khalistan militants, is currently recuperating from the deep gashes inflicted on the neck by his four attackers.

Asked whether a closure on Punjab's traumatic past was possible, Lt Gen Brar, a 1971 war-decorated, third generation soldier hailing from Moga district, struck a note of pragmatism: "Well, it will take a while. Because lots of people have suffered not in Punjab alone but in the anti-Sikh riots in Delhi and elsewhere also. The Sikh community has been hurt and the wounds will take time to heal," he said.

Which is why, he argued, any memorial to Operation Bluestar should never be allowed to come up inside the Darbar Sahib. "Whenever the devotees, especially young ones, would see the memorial, it could inflame passions rather than healing old wounds," he added.

He charged the Akalis and the Shiromani Gurdwara Parbandhak Committee (SGPC) with playing with fire by conceding to the radicals' agenda to glorify Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale and his militant followers as 'martyrs'.

He sharply disagreed with the SGPC's contention that the upcoming memorial was to commemorate the killing of innocents during the army action. "There are other ways to remember such deaths but building a monument to militant ideology is not desirable at all for the sake of hard-earned peace in Punjab," he said.

Brar also spoke about how the London attack had changed his life. "It has of course made my life very difficult. I am used to living with perpetual threats from radicals." However, he said he was not asking for more security.

About the British police probe into the attack, Brar said the Scotland Yard had conducted DNA test on his bloodstained jacket and boots and also scanned CCTV footage to track down the attackers whom he had fought back.

"The British police authorities are updating me on a daily basis on the probe and have assured that the perpetrators of the attack would not get away with it," he said, adding that two suspects chargesheeted on Monday were from the Birmingham area where the banned Babbar Khalsa has its headquarters.