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Philip777

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  1. Oh sorry, I completely forgot tol answer. The reference is Luke 2 verses 40 to 52. I won't wuote as no admin answered to give me permission to.
  2. Okay. Yes I agree with you, and I accept to try a debate. But not here, it wouldn't be convenient. I'll send you my e-mail by private message.
  3. I'm confused... don't you think Jesus as God? and isn't God all-knowing? If Jesus was truly the being you see him to be, then yes, he would know all, and would be able to write his own testament. A question arises to my mind; If Jesus knew the Old Testament, and he followed it seriously, why the need to create a New Testament? Or, if there were things he didn't agree with in the Old Testament, being a 'God-Being', God would have ordained him to create a New Testament by His own hand, no? Yes, of course as God he was all-knowing. But as a human being, Jesus was not a high intellectual. And he didn't only speak to great thinkers, students or scientists, but for ordinary people, and he himself lived the life of nordinary people. That's all I'm saying. And to answer your question, Jesus didn't disagree with anything in the New Testament : he came to accomplish. The whole story of the Old Testament is the announcing of a Saviour to come who would save man of his sin. And Jesus is this Saviour. The Old and New Testament aren't separate, they are a complete unity : the Old Testament announces Jesus, the New Testament tells of his coming. Jesus would have been capable to write his own Testament, surely. But there was no need for it : the New Testament is simply the testimony of what Jesus did, by those who believed in him while he was on Earth, for those who believe in him after he left Earth.
  4. Well you can't expect every Christian in the world to know everything about every single hymn that was written. I however know the story : this hymn was written by John Newton, a slave trader, who accepted Jesus as his saviour. For a time after his conversion he remained a slave trader, but he started seeing to that the slaves under his care were treated humanely. And later and realized the horror of his trade, he left the seas and became afterwards a major opponent to this inhumn trade. And he wrote the lyrics of this song, who tell of his life as a sinner and of the grace of Jesus that saved him. You can read his whole story here : http://www.joyfulheart.com/misc/newton.htm Actually this hymn is quite famous in the church and recent too compared to the age of Christianity. Now do "vichaar"(contemplate) on slavery and why Christian churches allowed this to continue for such a long time bearing in mind the age of Christianity and the priestly hierarchy in Christianity. Same mentality and 'blood money' from this Churches was used for evangelical purposes throughout the world. Precisely, because "churches" weren't always genuinely Christian.
  5. Well you can't expect every Christian in the world to know everything about every single hymn that was written. I however know the story : this hymn was written by John Newton, a slave trader, who accepted Jesus as his saviour. For a time after his conversion he remained a slave trader, but he started seeing to that the slaves under his care were treated humanely. And later and realized the horror of his trade, he left the seas and became afterwards a major opponent to this inhumn trade. And he wrote the lyrics of this song, who tell of his life as a sinner and of the grace of Jesus that saved him. You can read his whole story here : http://www.joyfulheart.com/misc/newton.htm
  6. How do u figure that? As you know, humans are not without sin. So how do u know that the writings compiled in the Bible BY HUMANS were the real teachings of Jesus? Jesus never 'endorsed' the Bible... nor did he compile it... ur argument is flawed by 'blind faith' (in my opinion). Just because the apostles accepted some writings, and they wrote gospels which were input into the bible (YEARS after the 'death' of Jesus), that does not make it Gods word. Anybody could've said 'Jesus said this'. There's no way of knowing what is tru and what is not. You said u are in search of the Truth; how can you logically think that everything in the bible IS really what Jesus said/preached? How do u know that people did not put their own writings in and proclaim them to be the teachings of Jesus? you do not. Not only that, there is no original text to compare to. That way, texts could have EASILY been tampered with over time. You're completely right. And that's just the reason why so many Scriptures were refused. Only the Scriptures of people who had known Jesus face to face (with one exception : Luke ; I speak of him before) were accepted, exactly for this reason. And it is clearly said the apostles wrote under the inspiration of God. HYow do I know that the apostles didn't invent things, and put their own ideas in Jesus'mouth. Well, I don't know. I can of course say that logically, as the apostles themselves believed in Jesus, they had no reason to do it. But you're right, I have no proof of it. Coming to a certain point it's just blind faith. Where is there proof of that? Just because he said it, it makes it true? Tomorrow I could say to everybody that Guru Nanak Dev Jee appeared before me in a vision and told me to write more 'hymns' for our Scriptures, does that mean its true? no, not at all. Anybody can proclaim anything. If I come on this forum tomorrow and tell you Jesus appeared to me this night and gave me a message especially for this forum, would you believe me ? Probably not, or anyway you would ask some kind of sign. So if just anyone claims anything, it's very improbable that people will believe him... But now look at the case of Paul. He was known to the first Christians, and to the Jewish authorities, he wasn't a completely unknown newcomer out of nowhere : he was a Jewish Pharisee, a well-educated person. He had been the disciple of the well-known Jewish leader Gamaliel. And what's more, he was a persecutor of the Church, he had thrown hundredsw of Christians into prison, and even killed some. He was testimony of the death of Stephen, the first Christian martyr : he was watching over the mantles of his murderers while they stoned him. And he was on an official voyage, with official letters from the highest Jewish and local Roman authorities, to go to the town of Damas and kill the Christians of this town. It was on this voyage that Jesus appeared to him in a vision. How do I know he didn't invent it ? I don't know, again I truly admit it is blind faith. But what is sure and certain is : before this voyage he was well-known as a persecutor of the Church, and after this voyage he became himself a Christian, and even a great preacher, and the first missionary, as well as the greatest of all time. It would sound very strange if he had overcome such a change only for the sake of an invention. My faith is certainly to believe without proof, despite reason and logic, and that's even the very definition of the word "faith". But it's certainly not to believe without solid ground, against logic. I can't proove my faith is true, but I certainly can show it is perfectly rational. Was Jesus very educated ? Well, what is sure is that he could read and write, because he does so in the Gospel. Certainly he knew the Old Testament very well, as a Jew who took his faith seriously. But further... Jesus was a carpenter of the small town of Nazareth. By the time, education was expensive, and only for the richest families. So no, I don't think he was a high intellectual. Anyway certainly his disciples weren't : four of them were fishers. It's believed, as Peter used a secretary (Silas, a Greek Christian) to write his letters, that he himself was an analphabet. Anyway, the most important in Christianity is not the teaching of Jesus (not to say they aren't important, they're definitely important for our everyday life with God, but it's not by them that we are saved) : more important than what Jesus said is what he has done. Jesus has delivered all mankind from sin, by dying on the cross instead of us all. He took on himself the judgement that each one of us disearved, so that now by him we can be forgiven. That's the most important message of the Gospel. If Jesus hadn't died for us, nobody could never be saved and forgiven, but now everyone can. That's why, under the inspiration of God's spirit, the apostles who had known Jesus have wroten the New Testament, for everyone to remember what Jesus has done.
  7. It is argued by many that He was in India (Kashmir region) and thats where he got ridh-sidh and became Enlightened... apparently, i've heard about writings of kashmiri's from that time about a long-haired light (brown) skin man from the middle east coming... but that i have no sources for.. jus on hearsay.. For a poor carpenter to make such a long voyage, at this time and in such a young age, letting alone the fact that it was politically very difficult to voyage out of the Roman Empire for those who lived in it, this theory seems quite strange to me. And also I think if it had been so Jesus would have mentioned it. Anyway, to answer your question (and sorry I haven't done so before) : indeed the Gospel tells us hardly anything about Jesus between his birth and the beginning of his teaching : the only event of this period that is told is when Jesus was 12 years old (the age at which Jewish boys were introduced in the community) in the Temple. If the administrators allow me to quote a Bible passage on this forum, I'll quote this story for you, but I prefer to ask for permission first as I am on a Sikh forum. And if nothing is mentioned, I suppose it simply means that Jesus did nothing extraordinary during his childhood. He was simply waiting until his time would come.
  8. But doesn't Christianity believe that all humans are BORN with sin? Not exactly : all humans are born as sinners, which meens that in their life noone has the capacity to never commit sin when he is tempted. But a baby never has been tempted. There are a few diff writers in the bible who never knew Jesus... being close to an apostle doesn't make it the word of God.. There's one New Testament writer who never knew Jesus : Luke. Hre was a Greek, a surgeon, who became a friend and a companion of the apostle Paul on his voyages. And he wrote a gospel, after having interviewed Mary the mother of Jesus, and the apostles, and after having made precise researches about the life of Jesus. His Gospel was accepted by the apostles since the beginning. It is certainly the Word of God. And he also wrote the Acts of the Apostles, which tells the story of the beginning of the Church. As he was himself part of the first missionnary team and writes of what he himself saw, there's no problem about that. The other writers are apostles (Matthew, John, Peter), people who were not of the 12 apostles but who knew Jesus and were his companions during his life on Earth (Mark) or physical brothers of Jesus (James and John). Not to forget Paul, who didn't know Jesus during his life, but to whom Jesus appeared personally after his return to Heaven, and who recieved all his teachings from Jesus himself in a vision. And as he met Jesus face to face in a vision, the apostles reckognized him as one of them.
  9. First, the Nicea council was years 300 after Christ, not 100 . But you're right, the final Canon of the Scriptures which are accepted in the Bible, was fixed 100 years after Christ (but not at Nicea). It was in the year 125, and the accepted Scriptures'names were written on a list called the "Muratori list" (don't ask me where the name comes from). And you're right, of 74 known "gospels" (+ probably several ones that have never been discovered) only four were taken. Why ? Because it was easy for anyone to right a gospel, and put all sorts of things in Jesus'mouth. That's why only the gospels that were written by people who either had known Jesus on Earth (Matthex, Mark and John) or who were close to the apostles (Luke) were accepted, and also only those who concorded with the teachings of the apostles. The apostles were seen as the only real authority, not because they were better men than others, they were just as much sinners as you and me are, but because they had known Jesus on Earth. At Nicea, the first official statements about the Christian faith were fixed. The reason for this was that by the time Christianity had become the official religion of the Empire. But in fact, it only officialized what had always been believed by Christians. Of course, there have always been heresies, false teachings... but the good thing about false teachings is that as they are false, they don't make any difference to real believers (although they can lead others astray). How can we reckognize such false teachings ? By comparing them with the Bible. The Bible is the only real authority for the Christian faith. One Gospel says the cock crowed once, the other one three times... well, if id crows three times it has also crowed once, hasn't it ? If I say I have written a message on this forum today, it doesn't mean it's the only message I have written. For the baby that breathes once and dies : the Bible doesn't give a clear answer for this case, so I can only say I don't know. I can tell you what I think, but as I'm not God, I might be mistaken : I think a baby that dies has not yet sinned, so it has nothing that disearves a punishment. And what do you mean by "the Church" that thinks one way or another. What authority has the Church to decide about that ? Which Church, to begin with ? The Vatican ? First it has been at the head of so many massacres in history that it has long lost his credibility, and second real Christians reckognize no human authority : only the Bible, the Word of God. And the Bible doesn't give the answer to this question. So the Christians can only say we don't know, but God knows and he is just. And no, you didn't cause me any offense at all.
  10. I'm back ! And no you've not scared me off at all, I just don't come on this forum so very often. I didn't read anything that offended me. And I don't see the use either of a hot debate here. I also don't see why you should not be supposed to make me think I'm wrong. I've said since the beginning that if one day I am convinced that what I believe isn't true, I'm ready to change my mind and to let go everything I believe, from one instant to the other.
  11. Can you please explain this? I do not see how all faiths are not true. You are saying as if I live a pure life filled with love for my fellow human being, no matter what his or her appearance or beliefs, and with love for the one universal God and attempt my best to aid men and women and live a humble life, I will not achieve salvation? If this is not what you are saying then please clarify, for I do not understand how one can boldy say that one religion is correct except their own, even if they live a saint life. I respect your view but do not see how it is possible, maybe you can help clarify. Thank you. WJKK WJKF. :vaheguru: If you can live a pure life, with always love for you fellow human being, and without one single sin, than you can be saved. That's why I believe babies who were born dead are saved, because they haven't sinned yet, so they don't deserve any punishment. Yes, if you live a perfect life, without one single bad action and even without one bad thought, you will be saved, that's beyond all doubt. But, honestly, is there anyone on Earth who has never done anything wrong ? I don't know for you, but I know anyway for me that I have sinned. And I suppose you're the same. I suppose you've never killed anyone, I haven't either. But, have you never stolen, have you never lied, have you never said anything nasty to someone, or even thought ? I have done each of these things, and I suppose nobody can say he hasn't. The Bible says that all men have sinned, and surely it's true. And God is simply too holy to tolerate only one single sin if His presence, and He is too just to let one single sin, ever so small, unpunished. That's why by human nature all men and womed, me included, are due to Hell as a punishment for their sins. And all the good you can do simply can't help you to please God, because only one single sin is sufficient to be punished. So, mankind is totally incapable to save itself on his own. But that's why God, who loves His creatures and doesn't want them to get lost, did Himself everything that was necessary for our salvation : He came Himself on Earth as a man, Jesus, who was at the same time entirely human and entirely God. Jesus lived, and told people about love for each other, because that is indeed what God desires from us. And Jesus is the only human being who ever lived, who actually never committed a single wrong thing : because He was God become flesh on Earth, He was without sin. But He hadn't comme to instaur a religion on Earth, and to teach his followers forever on : He came in the purpose to die for us, in ouyr place, to take on Himself the punishment of our sins. Jesus died on the cross, and He suffered the punishment that you and me diserve. But He became alive again too, and by His resurrection He has wone the victory over death for ever on. And after this He went back to Heaven, but He will come back on Earth at the end of time, to judge all men's deeds. So today, if someone realizes he is a sinner, and he is completely lost, far away from God, and that all his efforts to live love towards others are completely vain, and who believes that Jesus has died on the cross for him personally, and accepts Him as his personal Saviour, this person is saved, and all his sins are forgiven, washed away. There's nothing at all to do to be savec : only to accept that you cant do ANYTHING, but that Jesus has already dole EVERYTHING for you. Everyone who believes this is immediately saved, and can be perfectly sure that all his sins are forgived, because Jesus already bore the punishment. All this out of pure love for you and me. After I have accepted Jesus as my saviour, when I was 11 years old, of course I do my best to love other people, because I want to please God and to love others. But not because I believe it changes anything at all about my salvation : I am already perfectly sure that I am saved. But there's also the other side of the message : that everyone who refuses to believe in Jesus remains under the wrath of God, and under His judgement. Even if he is ever so nice and loving.
  12. Of course God could have spent only one day to create the whole Universe, with no problem. But in fact further passages of the Bible give us the explanation of the creation in 7 days : he wants to give os the model of the week. The last day of the week is the Sunday (or the Saturday in other cultures, it doesn't really matter), the Day of the Lord, that has to be kept apart for him. That's why God Himself created the world in 7 days : to give us this model of the week. And for the 7th day where God rested, it simply means he ceased to create the world, because the world is finished. And that's why we shall cease our work on the Day of the Lord, and spend this day especially for God. For your last question : where does this occur ? I don't see what passage you're talking about ? But anyway, I suppose it can happen that a baby dies after his first breath.
  13. Thank you for asking. I'l answer here, I hope it iisn't a problem for the admins (if it is you can delete it and I'll answer by private messages). When Israel was fighting against his ennemies, Joshua prayed to God, and God stopped the course of the sun so that his people had the time to win the battle. Now, of course we know now that in fact it is the Earth that goes around the Sun, but seen from Earth, the Sun stopped. It isn't a contradiction with science, because you still say today that the Sun goes up in the morning, even if scientifically it isn't so. What really happened is that, on this single day, God (God himself, not Joshua, Joshua only prayed to God) stopped the whole course of the Universe ! All the moves of planets around stars, of moons around planets and everything else, stopped for one day to give God's people the time to beat their ennemies ! It's simply the greatest miracle of the whole Bible (or the greatest "scientific" miracle, the miracles of lives wholly changed by Jesus are far greater). And for Isaiah who made the Sun go backwards, in fact he made the shadow move backwards, which could be explained by special light conditions (that doesn't mean it isn't a miracle, but it doesn't necessarily mean that the Sun went back). Why didn't any other people notice what happened. That's an interesting question, and in fact I never thought about it. Maybe (I say maybe, I'm not sure about this) the scientific knowledges at this time weren't enough advanced to notice what happened. When you look out of your window you don't see the Sun moving, so you wouldn't necessarily realize if it stops for a time. And another thing : the most modern sciences have discovered that in the astronomic moves, it is as if somewhere a few hours are missing. Just as if the whole Universe stopped moving for a few hours of time. And this was most certainly the day when Joshua prayed. This was found out by the Nasa. You can read more about it on this page : http://www.reasons.org/resources/apologeti...ualongday.shtml. (The site says the 23 hours 40 minutes accounted for become a day, like the Bible says, if you count what Isaiah did. I think the Bible speaks approximately, and 23 hours 40 are approximately a day). For your other question, I'll answer it in a second post as someone else asked the same.
  14. Hi Phillip, i think the problem here is that you ended discussion in your first sentece by saying "my faith is truth" all faith's are truth as they all point essentially to the same place Sorry, but I really cannot agree. I agree wholeheartedly all faiths diserve respect, and all faiths have things you can learn from. And that's the reason I'm here But I totally disagree that all are equally true, and that they all point essentially to the same place. All religions, philosophies, faiths, spiritualities etc, speak of love, peace and brotherhood between all mankind. And all have excellent moral values. But no, all don't lead to God.
  15. I've learned Sikhs believe in one God, who is in everything and everywhere. And that all idols, rites and sacrifices are useless, because the real adoration is to praise God everyday and to offer ourselves to Him unreservedly. Sikhism teaches love and brotherhood between all mankind, and so it rejects the cast system of Hinduism, the religion of which Sikhism il issued, and it also teaches that all religions are only different ways to God, that none is better than another. Your Holy Book is the Guru Granth Sahib, that you believe to be not only a book, but the living Guru speaking to you directly. (I've read a litte bit of it.) You believe the Guru is God on Earth, the Guru is God and God is the Guru. There is no difference between them. The Guru is the Creator. Without Him, noone can get to perfection. The Guru is the guide. The Guru on Earth must be adored like God Himself. Man must go through numerous lives (reincarnations) to free himself from sin and suffering. And I also learned many details about your way of life, for example about your clothings, but I think what I've listed here is the most important. I hope it will show you that I am indeed here to learn more about you.
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