Only five

I classify myself as a doctor :WOOHOO: I like the label gives me comfort to the question who am I. :rolleyes:

It is not we who determine who is a Sikh or not but Bani, Vaars and Rehat. One can easily use these references to determine who is a Sikh and who isn't. It isn't a very complicated thing. Gurmat is a path of salvation and those who don't follow it are not part of it. By the same argument who are we to determine who is a rapist, criminal, immoral and a corrupt person. Lets open up all the jails and let everyone go free because who are we to classify anyone. Right? Your argument should be applicable to everyone else otherwise it doesn't work. There are certain guidelines and principles that are used in every society, religion and culture. Sikhi also has its own guidelines which we call rehat which can be used to determine who is a Sikh and who isn't. If we didn't have this right then anyone would call themselves Sikh and Christians, Muslims and Brahmins would want to run our Gurdwaras and we all know how that turned out when British ruled India. Being a non-Sikh doesn't make anyone inferior or a bad person. :goodpost: :whs: :homer Not pointing fingers defining what a Sikh is, there is a difference here, let's see if you can spot it.

For your info Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji said a Sikh must keep hair. By some peoples definition of a Sikh anyone in this world can be a Sikh. 'A learner or practices one or two principles of Sikhism.' Anyone that practices equality can be called a Sikh, or goes to school to progress academically. Then there's one other thing they like to add when they know their defintion of a Sikh is compltelely wrong. 'A person that believes in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji.' I could sit here and say I believe in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji all I like it don't make a difference I still am not a Sikh. The day I start believing in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji is the day I start practicing Sikhi and dropping everything that goes against Sikhi. If a person cuts his/her own hair or for someone else then this person cannot be a Sikh or if a person does not practice equality then this person cannot be a Sikh. These are the simple tenets of Sikhi and Guru ji is telling us to walk on this straight path, but some want to create their path and in this case your practicing, your name and add ism at the end.

The question has been on Board for quite sometime. It seems that no one is interested in the answer as the answer may raise many controversies on the Term 'Guru'. If the meaning of Guru is not clear to us how should we proceed further. If someone has to answer , it may kindly be done so elase this religion is also like Hinduism where Lord Krishan declares Himself as the God in Gita. Where is the difference between the two then.? No guru can be God as all of them came here thru. womb and all died like any other human being. Hence those Gurus cannot be all pervasive. Only God is all pervasive and omnipotent and omni present. Regards to all the sangat. It seems that you have your answer to your question already. You just want to get into a arguement with someone and say exactly what you wanted which was this: No Guru died. The body perished, but the body was not the Guru. Guru is the word of God. Guru Nanak Dev ji is the True Guru, Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji is the True Guru. Bani is Guru, Guru is the Bani. There is no difference between Guru and God; they are one and the same. The Naam is obtained from the True Guru; by His Grace, God is found. ||4|| ang 233 Here Guru ji is sayin to us that Naam is obtained from the True Guru and if Guru Nanak Dev ji is not the True Guru and he died then why are we reading his Bani? To read Gurbani would be foolish because if the Guru who wrote this bani died, what do you think will happen to us! Then these next tuks clears things up for us O Nanak, through the Naam, greatness is obtained; through the Word of the Guru's Shabad, He is realized. ||8||5||22|| ang 68 O Nanak, I listen and chant the Lord's Sermon; through the Guru's Teachings, I am fulfilled by the Name of the Lord. ||4||6|| ang 96 In this world, the only real profit is the Name of the One Lord; it is earned by contemplating the Guru. ||6|| ang 55 The Perfect Guru is found, by great good fortune. Serving the Guru, pain does not afflict anyone. No one can erase the Word of the Guru's Shabad. Nanak is the Guru; Nanak is the Lord Himself. || 4 || 7 || 9 || ang 865

Now its a Hindu on Hindu and some say whatever to it. Really sad to how some Sikhs reply with outrage and compassion when its a Sikh injustice, but when others are being beaten to death and cops do nothing then its just brushed off. What happened to sarbat da bhala. This double standard has no place in Sikhi.

I dont think things will get that bad on this occasion but what is clear that some British Muslim male's have been going to Pakistan to get modern urban warefare training in Jihadi terror camps, while the British "indian" community has got nothing. Even some members of the British Jewish community go to Israel to get military training from Israeli organisations. We are like sitting ducks if any violence and hostlities were to break out, what use is gatka in modern urban warefare? Surely Sikhs should actively seek out training courses where you can be prepared for such events for self defence purposes. Surely there must be courses run by British army that Sikh organisations can participate in? I agree with your point about British Gursikhs, they will always stay in their comfort zones and rely on the mona/sahejdhari Sikhs to fight their battles for them. When in fact the very reason the Khalsa was created was the other way around, for GurSikhs to be the soliders in the front line in defence of the dharam and community. The question arises has the role of the Khalsa become obsolete? Are the Khalsa's in the west sheep in lions clothing that Guru ji warned about? It's important to note that those muslims who are trying to mock sikhi in the video are a specific sect called salafi they are like sunni's but believe in direct confrontation with non-muslims. They also mock and try to target shia muslims at their gatherings. Admin Note: This is your first warning for personal attack.

For starters this is completely disrespectful. It doesn't matter which language the Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji is in, its still bani. This is probably a global problem because i just checked my schools library's database and they have Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji as well in english translation. We need to do something about this and do it right.

You have misunderstood me. Any Sikh male that has taken amrit can stand up. Because on that day five punjabis didnt give there head 5 brown men didnt give there head, but five male Sikhs gave there head. There's the saki of Baba Budha ji at the age I believe 9, Bura went up to him and, making obeisance with a bowl of milk as his offering, prayed to him in this manner: "O sustainer of the poor! I am fortunate to have had a sight of you today. Absolve me now from the circuit of birth and death." The Guru said, You are only a child yet. But you talk so wisely." "some soldiers set up camp by our village," replied Bura, "and they mowed down all our crops - ripe as well as unripe. Then it occurred to me that, when no one could check these indiscriminating soldiers, who would restrain Death from laying his hand upon us, young or old." At this Guru Nanak pronounced the words: "You are not a child; you possess the wisdom of an old man." From that day, Bura, came to be known as Bhai Buddha, buddha in Punjabi meaning an old man, and later, when advanced in years, as Baba Buddha. As I and many of you were at the age of 9 playing video games not asking ourselves these kinds of questions. But here you have Baba Budha ji who at the age of 9 asked Guru Nanak Dev ji this question. This shows he had spiritual wisdom at such an early age. There is no bar set when a male or a female will be able to understand the spiritual world. Yes in some parts of the world we are taught at a certain age we would reach a certain stage in our lives, like the middle life crisis, but Guru ji abolished all of this because when you are attuned to God one does not go through these stages of life and the age of the male or female does not matter. In all of this a male doesn't matter how old since only spiritual wisdom and he has taken amrit and he obeys by the discipline matters can stand for Panj Pyare. Shersurj, you can do as you please, but before doing so, try to think it through and understand what took place on that day. Sometimes we get so caught up in trying to prove others wrong that we don't actually understand the really situation. Personally I would not take amrit if a woman was in the Panj Pyare because five male Sikhs gave there heads for this service and we should follow this practice.

thats crap. no kid step forward to guru gobind singh ji. does that mean kids cant do it. no black person stepped forward. no white sikh etc. they were 5 great humans that stepped 4ward. it cudve been anyone. if its not women ud say where the kids represenation. i know of some women who are just as strong as men physically and mentally. sum of teh best marines in the us army are women. mainly coz they have a steady hand but they are physically as tough as teh guys. now if u wanna say 2 a woman u cant do this u cant do that - panj pyaareh di seva 4 eg. then ur living in the past b4 guru nanak dev jis times. equality people!!!! Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji did not say i need one women's head and one man's head. Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji asked for one head. And at this time no women stood up and only men gave there heads. Only men got there head cut by Guru jis sword no women, so this is why only five men stand for the five beloved ones. This has nothing to do with age, race, culture, or physical ability. Yes this has to do with gender, but not the way some, and I put it earlier as inequality. The only way this would be inequality if a women did give her head for five beloved ones, but today we don't let women stand for it. But this was not the case for only men gave there head for Panj Pyare and only five men should stand up. Then there's the arguement that women devotion is just as pure as mens, but now your saying that women in todays world have more devotion toward Guru ji than the women that sat in that crowd on that day. Lastly this is not gender inequality but following in accordance with what took place that day.

I understand where you are coming from, but never compromise what the Gurus taught us for votes, the Sikh Youth committee without a doubt should remove the chairs and tables. All we need is faith that next time when the elections roll around Sikh Youth will win again.

All we need is faith in God and the right people will be in power of all Gurdwaras in the west. Remember key thing is faith and everything is possible. Waheguru Ji ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji ki Fateh

It's a joyous :WOOHOO: day here in BC. )))) )))) )))) )))) The Sikhs of surrey did it, we need to set the bar even higher and do it all of Canada.

It's not about agreeing or disagreeing here. It's about getting to the truth about this issue. But since Sant Baba Jarnail Singh ji has said it should be only men then i'll accpet his answer. The rehat is what causes confusing on this issue. I'm sorry if my post(s) mislead anyone. Waheguru Ji ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

In that tuk singh is not refering to men only. Here's the rehat to who one says Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh too. Awgy Awvq isMG ju pwvY ] vwihgurU kI Pqy bulwvY ] aagae aavath si(n)gh j paavai || vaahiguroo kee fathae bulaavai || Whenever he sees another Singh approaching at a distance. He greets him with 'Vaheguru Jee Kaa Khalsa! Vaheguru Jee Kee Fatheh!!' Here it only says Singh. So does that mean we do not say Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh to amritdhari women? Its understood the term Singh is used loosely as Khalsa.

The rehit does not say anything about only Amritdhari men can give amrit. A amritdhari woman is just as able to give amrit as an amritdhari man. If a woman wants to be apart of the five beloved ones and shes rejected then there must be a better reason than simply shes a woman.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh ji The best explanation is that it was Guru Gobind Singh Sahib jis Hukam a Sikh must keep uncut hair. It comes down to what she values more, Guru jis Hukam or the reason she is doing it. If she values the reason she is doing it more then she is following her own mind and not Guru. When you follow the mind then you are not following Guru ji and liberation cannot be acheived. When we make a commitment to Guru ji we give mind, body and soul to him. None of these is ours. The biggest battle a Sikh can win is the constant battle from within. Her cutting of the hair is a reason that started from within and once she cuts it, it becomes an outer battle. Society is constantly judging and we cannot let this get to us. If we do then the five theives have won. I hope that'll help. One thing you can do is just be there for her. The worst thing you can do is stop talking to her. With Guru jis Kirpa one days she'll realize what she is doing and her eyes will open up to the truth. Pray for her and be there for her. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

pjs The key is to become a Gursikh. Do not get hung up on defining to be a Sikh because a Sikh still has along way to go. Some people like to be called Sikhs because then they have a feeling of belonging. They think it answer the question, who am I. Follow the Hukams of Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji and Guru Granth Sahib ji and one day with Guru ji kirpa you will be a Gursikh.

Waheguru Ji Kakhalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh Khalsa123 ji Das completely agree with you here. Our Gurus did not treat men and women differently. In our Gurus eyes we were the same. Also when Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji asked for five heads he did not ask for five Sikh men heads. Women are just as pure Sikhs as men. The people that don't agree with this ask yourself, what makes a Sikh a Gursikh? Gender has nothing to do with it. Also when Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji said where ever their are 5 Gursikhs present take it as I am present. Hence once again he did not say when there are 5 Gursikh men present. Let's not be arrogant to this knowledge. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan Thanks for clearing it up. What you speak of is true; there is no justice for the Sikhs that got burtally beaten and murdered. The Indian government goes on with its daily business as if it never happened.

mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan Just make it clear for everyone on this topic where you stand on the 1984 attack on Amritsar. Also clear this up when you say "our" and "us" who are you refering to?????? indira's killers were hanged, beant sio's killers were arrested and tried, jhujaroos were eliminated along with whole families, what guilty are left for you to complain about? bhindrawaala is gone, bhai amrik isngh etc etc. yet the guilty for us, none are punished. why do our grievances pinch? you got your justice. the terrorists you speak of have been punished raju. now what about us?

Wahe Guru Ji Ka Khalsa Wahe Guru Ji ki fateh This is my first post on this thread. As I have been watching this discussing develop I was eager to put a quick post against abortion, but then thought twice because I would have offended someone without hearing majority of the discussion. Abortion is taking away a child’s chance at life and to meet God. A child is a gift from God and one thing you do not do is discard a child for your personal reasons. People always want to look at the circumstance of this situation and say if it is right or wrong to get abortion or call it a mistake. To this I say nothing in this universe is a mistake, everything happens because of God. In a persons eyes it might be a mistake for whatever reason, but the fact of the matter is it happened at Gods will. So accept the child in your life. This topic also ties into birth control pills, which also I believe is completely against Sikhism. My simple answer to this is if you are not ready for the responsibilities then do not do the deed.