Pehlvan

http://www.tribuneindia.com/mobi/news/punjab/politics/akali-dera-pact-irks-sikh-leaders/358793.html Arun Sharma Tribune News Service Ropar, February 2 The support of Dera Sacha Sauda to the SAD-BJP alliance followed by several SAD leaders’ decision to facilitate ‘satsangs’ of controversial dera head Gurmeet Ram Rahim Singh in the state seems to have boomeranged for the government. People across party lines, including those in the ruling party and various religious leaders, have condemned it and said that Sikhs were feeling hurt and Akal Takht must summon SAD leaders involved in the move. Akal Takht had issued a ‘hukamnama’ to boycott the dera head for wearing clothes like Guru Gobind Singh nine years ago in May 2007. Still, many SAD leaders had shared the stage with dera followers and appreciated dera head, welcoming his decision to support the SAD-BJP alliance at Bathinda yesterday. Former Takht Jathedar Bhai Ranjit Singh alleged that to save his chair, Badal was using religion and playing with the sentiments of the Sikh community. He alleged that through the SGPC, Badal was exploiting all Sikh religious institutes for his political gains. Another former Takht Jathedar Bhai Kewal Singh alleged that SAD leaders had violated ‘hukamnama’ of Akal Takht. He alleged that the SAD was in control of the SGPC and through it, the party was managing Akal Takht too. “Such actions of SAD leaders would further vitiate the atmosphere in state,” he said. SAD vice president Karnail Singh Panjoli, YAD leader Gurvinder Singh Doomchheri and SGPC member Principal Surinder Singh too criticised the move by party’s leaders in Malwa. Panjoli has written to Akal Takht, seeking its intervention in the matter. SGPC member Surinder Singh said SAD leaders welcoming the support by dera had committed a sin. SAD general secretary and party spokesman Prem Singh Chandumajra said in a democratic set-up, all are free to vote in favour of candidates of their choice.

http://www.tribuneindia.com/mobi/news/punjab/sacha-sauda-backs-sad-bjp/358336.html Parvesh Sharma Tribune News Service Sangrur, Febraury 1 Sirsa-based Dera Sacha Sauda has decided to support the SAD-BJP ruling alliance in the state Assembly elections. The decision was announced late last night. The dera had openly supported the Congress in 2007. Ram Karn Insan, member, political wing of the dera, said: “We never impose our will on devotees and always go by their wish. This time, the sangat wants to support the SAD-BJP.” “The dera followers have unanimously decided to support the ruling alliance,” said Harinder Mangwal Insan, a member the state body of the dera followers. Throughout the day, the dera 'premis' organised meetings at several places in the Malwa region where the followers "vowed" support to the alliance candidates. Reports of such meetings being held in Talwandi Sabo, Malout, Sangrur, Fazilka and Abohar constituencies were received. The decision, however, does not seem to have gone down well with a section of the dera “premis” (as the followers are called). Unwilling to speak openly, some of them said it was strange as the dera “premis” had been confronting Akalis for many years since the 2007 elections. “Our deras were attacked at several places, while many ‘premis’ were implicated in false cases. The decision to extend support to the SAD-BJP has come as a big surprise to us,” said a follower from Sangrur. The dera has a 15-member state political wing and a five-member national political wing. A 45-member committee was formed to take feedback from followers in the state. The state political wing completed its “mood gauging” exercise involving devotees across the state before the announcement last night. The members first conducted block-level meetings, then district and finally a state-level meeting was conducted on January 19 in Salabatpura. During the meetings, the members of the wing discussed the local issues with devotees, the performance of present MLAs and their attitude towards dera followers.

Check the link below, there are 22 days left to listen: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07v7z30 - Deepa Singh (about mixed marriage protests and his new song - 'Nashe') from 01:34:05 - Sunny Hundal phones in later on at 01:44:15 with his usual anti-Sikh nonsense. Says that Gay Marriages (between Amritdharis) should be allowed in a gurdwara !!!

No Sikh/Punjabi parent is ever happy that their treacherous, selfish offspring do these mixed marriages but they have no choice. They are bullied and emotionally blackmailed......they know that these bigoted liberals are so intolerant that they will not stop until they force their views on their parents. In effect what happens is that the parents are forcibly converted to this way of thinking. The reason they want an anand karaj is to regain some respect and legitimise this shameful alliance.

You've hit the nail on the head. The arguments made about the sanctity of the Anand Karaj are totally valid, but the crux of the argument is whether our community wants to survive or not. If Sikhs want to survive then mixed marriages must be stopped. It is ironic that the pro mixed-marriage brigade claim to be tolerant but are so full of self-hate/loathing that they can't tolerate their OWN community surviving !!!!

Where did they learn this depraved logic from ? That is exactly the response a western feminist would give......if men can do something stupid then why can't I ?....just to prove a point. If some sikh boys dated (which is absolutely wrong), then why not look at those who didn't date and copy them ? In the past not one Sikh bibi said "my husband drinks, so I am going to drink as-well", because they realised that even though it is wrong for a man to do it is even worse for the woman because of the responsibility they have as the mother and pillar of the household. The reason we are getting these problems now is because of western feminism.

Maybe, although is the shop still there ? If true, then he might have passed it on to his son.

Obviously the type of feminism I am talking about is western feminism which has caused the destruction of family values....what Guru Sahib taught is very different to this. Absolutely, women have been honoured in Sikhi as mothers......it is due to them that we are all here today. Sikh women in the past were selfless, responsible, dedicated to their families, loyal and of high character. Unfortunately by following western feminism many Sikh girls have created problems such as dating (something that would have been considered totally disgraceful in the past), marrying out of religion, caring more about careers than family, not wanting to have children...........things which never happened before.

Exactly, Sikhs today fail to realise that Guru Sahib did not advocate this western form of so-called "equality". Feminism is evil; it has destroyed family values and is responsible for a lot of the problems we are having today.

Gurdial Singh and sons in Jallandhar produce excellent instruments. Dr Gurnam Singh and many Namdharis get their instruments from them. A forum poster talked about his experience of ordering a dilruba through Dr Gurnam Singh: http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/70049-getting-a-dilruba-or-taus-of-tundhun-wood-from-india/ An article about Gurdial Singh: http://sikhchic.com/columnists/the_melody_maker_of_jalandhar_gurdial_singh

Giving this traitor red-carpet treatment shows how much our community have fallen. This is truly a sad day for us. Dr Amarjit Singh makes some good points about this in the following video. He talks about Bobby Jindal who converted to Christianity and how Hindus don't generally acknowledge him because he is a bad role model for them...but we have fallen even lower than them. The treacherous Badals invited her to their house for a cultural program and called her a daughter of Punjab and her husband a son-in-law of Punjab ! If having a relationship outside of marriage, dragging her father's turban through the mud, trampling over her parents feelings and disgracing her community makes her a daughter of Punjab, then what makes a traitor of Punjab ? True daughters of Punjab are loyal, self-sacrificing, obedient and true to their religion/parents/community. At the same time, we have loyal soldiers like Bhai Gurbaksh Singh Khalsa who Badal/SGPC won't even let into a Gurdwara in Punjab.

Re-read my posts and try and understand the bigger picture. I've given you proof time and time and again but you don't want to accept because you are an apologist for EDL chavs. I have watched SIKH AWARENESS SOCIETY, good work by Bhai Mohan Singh Ji....who is not a supporter of the EDL by the way. Again, I expect you to ignore this. My solution is to make our community strong by instilling family values and bring back some of the culture/values that we have lost. Make ourselves strong enough so that we don't get so desperate that we beg chavs to protect us or (in India) feel we have to align oursleves with right-wing Hindu groups. If we bring back the Sikh spirit of old everything will sort itself out. I notice how you haven't answered my point about how our ancestors didn't tolerate abuse of their religion, Or, the recent genocide in India that started with the insult of Sikhi in 1978. Again, criticising or disagreeing is different to insulting. Sad to see that people like you are apologists for those who insult our religion. Seeing how you're deliberately blurring the distinction between having a viewpoint and insulting. No brushing under the carpet here, I am advocating tackling the issues just not the DAFT way you are suggesting. You are brushing the issue under the carpet of racism that has happened against Sikhs AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN. Pathetic. How about you take your own advice and understand that 'right-wing' can be used for a political party OR a group. I'm not going to be a hypocrite and say you can insult others religions but not ours. No religion should be insulted .......I disagree with the Brits insulting Christianity as well. I know how I would feel if someone insulted our Gurus....again, weak of you would tolerate this with typical atheist liberal views. Again, you are so obsessed with Muslims that you have to judge on whether they want something or not. Sad to see you have so much intolerance and hate that you just want to insult someone....learn some manners and treat people as you wish to be treated yourself. Again, lots of evidence has been provided. The only paranoid nutcase is you.........so desperately scared of Muslims that you advocate joining the EDL !!! Stop crying and trying to demonise your own community. The point you miss out is that Sikhs tried LOTS of diplomacy before the play was aired to but were not listened to due to the intolerance and hate of those trying to through to demean our faith (people like you). Like I said, I didn't expect you to understand honour and what it means to Sikhs. It's your twisted mind that thinks that way.......... I don't try to make women pay attention to me because as a Sikh I look on all other women as my daughter/sister/mother. I don't believe in relationships outside of marriage or try to exploit other people's women. Again, I don't expect someone with gutter chav values like you to be able to comprehend this. The play was not about Honour Killings but about a rape that happens in a gurdwara. Nice try, AGAIN to justify an attempt to demean your religion without even admitting it was wrong. Regarding the BNP....are you silly enough to forget that you asked a question and then start crying when you get an answer ? They are a tiny, tiny minority of the Muslim community and were arrested....... the law is dealing with it: http://www.theweek.co.uk/uk-news/51155/arrests-over-muslim-patrol-vigilante-videos-london It is not a big enough problem to justify Sikhs joining the EDL - going back to my point. I wouldn't stand with either - going back to my point. I never said they burnt it but the EDL members in the audience were shouting "Burn it, Burn it !!"......they were up for it alright. Again, don't start crying...my point is to show what sort of people they are and to say that Sikhs shouldn't stand with them....which you keep ignoring. What's your point ? They are desperate to get Sikhs on their side. You are comparing the Kashmiri Hindus with the EDL ? Man, you are desperate. The Kashmiri Hindus were being FORCIBILY CONVERTED...are the EDL ? And you're talking about logical...ha ha ! :lol2: This just shows how thoroughly flawed your argument is. If the EDL have a problem with militant Islamists then why not just fight against militant Islamists !!! But they are fighting against a religion, a community. You have completely contradicted yourself AGAIN. It's Guru Gobind Singh Ji actually......shows you need to read up on your religion. "With that same thought in mind"...........what are you on about ???? It is not the same thought...Guru Sahib was fighting against Aurangzeb and not all Muslims (in fact, many helped the Sikhs at that time) and the EDL are fighting against the whole Muslim community. I don't know much about Muhammad....too busy reading about my own religion. Your language is 'typical Chav language'. Spreading hate and misinformation more like. How many Muslims do you get if add one Muslim and one EX Muslim ???? There's a bit of homework for you. I DO love making you look silly when you claim to have made me look silly but have fallen flat on your face :lol2: You are the desperate bottom licker of chavs who denies the problems in his own community and wants to hate against one community because he has a massive chip on his shoulder. The sort of action you and the EDL are proposing ?...I don't think so. Like you who doesn't want to deal with the problems in his own community. I'm moaning because I say we shouldn't join the EDL ?.....dream on chavvy boy. I am not advocating protecting Muslims so your point is irrelevant. I am saying Sikhs shouldn't join the EDL (for the hundredth time :angry2:) I have plenty of ideas that I have already mentioned; let's make ourselves stronger.

My faith is not weak, and nor was that of my forefathers....who never tolerated insults to their religion. This, unfortunately, is a recent thing which started with the insulting of Christianity in this country which has cause a lot of problems for the British people. Sad to see that you support it. The only crybaby is you. You can't take it when someone points the facts about EDL. It's not about being afraid....you asked how the EDL are racist I showed you, and now you can't take it. I'm not worried about anything. How terribly sad that you tolerate insults to your faith....maybe because you didn't care about it in the first place. You are so obsessed with Muslims that every argument has to come back to them. Get a grip. You're the only one crying here. So desperately scared of Muslims that you saying Sikhs should join a right-wing organisation. Am I saying we should join Muslims ???? Who's the petrified one here ? I was just showing you that members of the EDL are racist against us as-well....which is one reason why we shouldn't join them. But, you ignore the point I am making and keep crying. I was just answering your question. That is due to our failure to tell people about who we are and also the media being too politically correct and scared of saying 'Muslim'. Again, pathetic that you would excuse racism against your own people. Was it the case in the UK as-well that they don't know who Sikhs are ? It was racism, plain and simple. And to spell it out for you (as you seem incapable of understanding), I am trying to show you that the current undercurrent of anger is more than just against Muslims. There are some big issues brewing in the UK and Sikhs shouldn't be used as cannon fodder. Look at the bigger picture. Stop crying, no-one was killed or raped over the play. I consider the destruction of a way of life / culture truly disrespectful. Your values are truly messed up......leaving Sikh values and adopting chav values. If you look at our history we have never tolerated disrespect of our religion. In fact the recent struggle from 1978 actually started from this issue. Even the rehatnamey say "Gur Ki Ninda sunai na kaan"...but these would not be in line with your so-called British values so I would expect you to sell out here. Re-read my post...it's linked to the issue of honour. I don't think you will understand this though.... Again, you are in denial, pretending there are no issues with white people moving out of ethnic areas. They feel like they are being pushed out of all areas. How many Muslims are going around telling people to get out ? Or, is this just something spread by scaremongers ? No, they have been against Islam and Islamification long before the EDL were. I'm not going to keep repeating the same things. When I give you examples you go into denial and scream "petrified, sacred...". They didn't burn the koran.....they were going to. I have seen the video on youtube. This proves you are against a religion, something Sikhs have never been in history. Even after sacrificing his four sons Guru Gobind Singh Ji writes a letter to Aurangzeb (Zafarnama) and talks about how Aurangzeb is a deceiving swine who has disgraced his religion. They did NOT start bashing Islam. Shows you what sort of people the EDL is made up of they are and why Sikhs shouldn't support them. No Sikh in history has ever spoken like that about anyone else's religion. Typical chav language. There is ONE Muslim who goes to the EDL rallies. We need to do this as we have BIG problems. You are so afraid that you want to lick chav bottoms, begging them to fight Muslims for you. Have you become that desperate ? I am not saying we should join Muslims...YOU are saying we should join EDL, so who is the apologist, who is desperate, who is frightened ????? You contradict yourself by saying we should be strong, but you are so petrified that you want to join the EDL !!! I am hardly a Muslim apologist as I support our community taking action when required (eg. Shere Punjab).......but NOT by being used as pawns by the EDL. I am in favour of our community concentrating on ourselves and tackling our problems OURSELVES without being so scared that we have to join right-wing groups (by doing this we will end up being used and look stupid). Good for the Sikh guys. Again, not a reason to join the EDL. I'm not saying we should protect them. We shouldn't join the EDL.

Sounds like a weak response to me.........a recipe to invite someone to insult you. Sikhism is unaffected but if we are not willing to defend it, then that does not inspire confidence in others of our faith. I think most civilised people can see when the intent is to insult. Insulting a religion in order to provoke a response is VERY extreme. Not terrified at all, but aware of what is happening and who the sort of people are who support the EDL. I'm not saying them disagreeing with Sikhs is worse than grooming; you are not understanding the context of my posts or the point I am making, I was clearly addressing the type of people who are in the EDL and how we need to understand this before desperately jumping onto their bandwagon. How they have been against Sikhs in certain issues as-well. The amount of racism Sikhs have suffered after 9/11. My point was that 1) it is an attack on Islam the religion 2) if they sort out the Muslims, then Sikhs (or any community who wants to be distinct) will be next. There are much more real issues in the UK than the 'Islamification' of Britain........there is no national identity, community spirit has gone, family values have broken down, white people have moved away from ethnic majority areas, multiculturalism has failed, the economy is crumbling.....Brits want their country back. THESE are the problems. Sad to see that you view the disrespect of your religion as a 'tiny' thing. What is "better than that", is it tolerating disrespect and letting it get BIGGER AND BIGGER ? Today it was a theatre play, tomorrow it will be a television program, after that a film. If we stayed silent the insults would escalate. Yes, 'honour' is a topic that has led to a great deal of stupidity in the Sikh community, I totally agree with you. The stupidity of a once proud, dignified people losing their honour and where they would never have tolerated promiscuous behaviour amongst their girls to the situation today where they promote and encourage equality and feminism (anything stupid the man can do, I can do as-well) and then cry that their girls are out of their control !!! The stupidity of honourable people losing such priceless virtues. The stupidity of how we would never have tolerated our children getting married outside the religion to where we invite them to have their marriage inside the Gurdwara and give them a siropa afterwards !!! Come on..............be real. Having heard the views of white people who left Southall/West London I can assure you the majority of cases was not because they got wealthier and got better jobs..............most of them were working class and not very good academically. The real reason is that they didn't like living amongst Asians and we were accused of the same things that we hear against Muslims today.....they stick to themselves, don't integrate, it doesn't feel like England anymore etc etc. A lot of Britain has 'no-go' areas....generally unemployed, criminal, gangster type youth who have respect for no-one. Well the BNP have been trying for longer than the EDL...............it doesn't mean Sikhs should join them. You're talking about morals and fairness while advocating we support racists ??? I have shown you they are not just against militant Islam or Islamification............they are against Islam. Shouting "who the f**k is the Allah", "Muhammad is a p**do".....in one demonstration they were going to burn the Koran to shouts of "burn it, burn it !!!". Are these the sort of people Sikhs want to be supporting....have we become THAT desperate ??? They have come to us because they need to push us forward in their fight against Muslims....this is OBVIOUS. No community is supporting the EDL at the moment, even though they claim they have blacks, jews, sikhs, hindus supporting them, how many do you see in their protest videos ? Sikhs are CLEARLY being used and set-up here...there are even videos on youtube claiming that Sikhs are the EDL's allies !!! If Sikhs were to support them it would tarnish our name turning the vast majority of good Muslims (who have had nothing to do with grooming) against us and increase tensions between communities.

This is an issue of the sanctity of marriage. Whether hetrosexual, homosexual or bi-sexual we have all come into this world through hetrosexual marriage. Therefore, to attack this sacred institution is hypocritical and wrong. We have no right to change the very definition of marriage, which is exactly what is being done here. No-one is saying that Homosexuals should be persecuted or harrassed..........but they have no right to change the definition of marriage. Homosexuality is a perversity of the mind......instead of trying to legitimatize this disease, we need to help people cure it with Gurbani. If you have these type of dirty thoughts, seek help from the Guru to cure yourself.......don't be stubborn and cheeky and expect to have this blessed in a Gurdwara. O Sikhs, we are facing so many problems because of the weakening of our family values and now we are even considering this nonsense !!! Are we even meeting the average fertility required for a culture to survive of 2 kids per family ???? THESE are the things we need to be talking about not bakwas that is going to take us backwards.

No, free speech should cover EVERY TOPIC. If someone wants to criticize Sikhism they should be ALLOWED to and we shouldn't have a problem with it. If an ideology can't stand up to debate then it's not worth following. Sikhism CAN STAND UP to any debate, so we have nothing to fear. I mean just look at Guru Gobind's 52 Hukams, It's so incredibly righteous IT HURTS. You CAN'T pick holes in the strength of that moral code it's impossible. Modern day values can't even compare to how ridiculously heavenly you're supposed to be in Sikhism . You're missing the point...there is a difference between disagreeing and attempting to insult a religion to cause offence. That was the issue with us with the Narakdharees in 1978; they were slandering the Gurus. Atheists write books and have conferences on why they believe there is no God; no-one has a problem with it. That is having an opinion; deliberately taking the mick is different. But WHO is denigrating Sikhism anyway? The white man? Hardly! I've never heard/read about a white person saying anything but positive things about Sikhs, talking about how we're all warriors and hard working, really fun people to hang around with and never cause any trouble. I don't see ANY Sikhs disagreeing with this either . You CAN'T pick and choose what opinions you're willing to allow.Again, you're missing the point. They're not doing it yet, but we have seen the reaction when we raise issues (the Be-Izatee play, mixed marriages in Gurdwaras).........the majority of the British public have been against us. They want the right to do insult any religion; this will include ours and is why we should oppose it. The play Behzti was WRITTEN BY A SIKH don't forget. Someone in our VERY OWN community wanted to talk about various issues we face and we have to allow that. The only real problem was she set the play in a Gurdwara without any actual given reason for it, and Sikhs were RIGHT TO PEACEFULLY PROTEST about it and not support it. You are also free to call the author a traitor, but violence is out of the question. The violating of the Gurdwara for cheap publicity by Gurpreet Bhatti was much worse. A Sikh ?.....I think she is more westernised and living by western values than Sikh values. The majority of the British public were with her. We do not face the issues she showed in her play; that was just a pathetic attempt to cause controversy and make her name. As for Southall. A white person may not want to LIVE there, but would they ever say they feel totally unwelcome? I don't think so. Tommy Robinson has gone on record saying that even though Southall is basically a Sikh town, it's just as friendly as a white area. Why would white people who have been living in an area for generations move out ? It's not a decision that is taken lightly. Tommy Robinson has already admitted that classic EDL chants like 'WHO THE EFF IS ALLAH' are probably not the best way to win support, but fact of the matter is Islamists have said and done far worse. Free speech isn't always pretty and nobody said it was, but it is the best way to run the world. The people (no matter who/what they are) in the EDL are ANGRY at the injustice taking place in England, and how their country and future is changing for the worse. PROTESTING with the EDL is the best possible outlet for that anger, far better than random people turning to riots and blind violence like Anders Breivik did in Norway. The EDL chants are directed against a religion......against ALL Muslims. It shows that this goes beyond just being against Islamists and is why Sikhs should have nothing to do with it. Again, it is inaction by the government that they haven't arrested Islamists making provocative chants. I disagree, Halal SHOULD be banned. Muslims had their chance to make it work and they clearly failed us all. Halal should CONTINUE to be banned until they can prove beyond doubt that it will never infringe on the rights of non-Muslims in Britain (95% of the country) ever again. As a Sikh I will FOREVER be appalled by Halal. As a British person I will FOREVER be appalled by Halal. Halal goes against British views on Animal Welfare, so the time when Halal will be truly acceptable is probably never. The reason people are being force-fed Halal is not because of Muslims, it is because of retailers who put profit and business efficiency before everything else. Separating Halal and non-Halal is time consuming for them, it's easier to just have Halal. The government needs to make them separate the two and give people the right NOT to eat Halal. The whole meat industry is cruel and exploits animals living in horrible, cramped conditions before killing them. The 'Azaan', the Muslim call to prayer should ALSO be banned. Just like it was banned in the Sikh Empire. WHY should anyone have to hear for miles around AND in their homes, some guy on a loudspeaker chant about how amazing Islam and Muhammad is? How much you suck for being an unbeliever? WHAT would happen if a Gurdwara started using loudspeakers to blast to the world how amazing the Guru's, the Guru Granth Sahib Ji and Waheguru are? Would Muslims appreciate that? Would anyone actually WANT that? WHAT would happen if someone was to use loudspeakers at their house and blast to the world how much better they are than everyone else? They'd be arrested . If this is happening then it needs to stop. "NOW is the time for the country to decide. Do we want Britain-istan. Or do we want Great Britain? YOU CANNOT HAVE BOTH. We either have to give Muslims everything they want, or 'limit' them by giving them the SAME rights as the other 95% of this country. There is no halfway point." Yes, everyone should have the same rights under the law.

If you want to march alongside chavs shouting "muhammad is a p***o", "who the f**k is Allah" and do a disservice to Sikhi in the process than that is up to you. Slogans like this clearly show that EDL are not just against militant Islam but Islam itself. This is going to turn moderate Muslims away and polarise people more. They also want the right to insult religion....this will include Sikhi. We saw what happened with the Be-Izatee play and how the majority of the British public was against us for not wanting our religion to made a mockery of. As Sikhs we should be against ANY religion or prophet being insulted. Disagreeing with a religion is OK, but insulting it is not.....there is a difference. We don't like it when our religion is insulted; let's not insult other people's religion. Some of the points they raise are valid and it is due to weak governments and weak community leaders that these have not been addressed. Halal meat is a big one.......it should clearly be labelled. Let people have the choice whether to have halal or non-halal meat. Shere Punjab shouldn't have been dismissed by members of our community when they were highlighting the cases of grooming gangs. They did make a lot of sacrifices for our community and should be given respect. At last the police are putting evil scumbag perverts behind bars. As has been said, there is a higher percentage of them amongst the Pakistani community....this is a problem they need to address. The hate preachers who are against this country should be deported....the government needs to be harder. Regarding EDL members being racist or not, or coming for us afterwards.......have we forgotten the amount of racism we have suffered since 9/11 ? Was this really a case of mistaken identity.......or a chance for racism to rear it's ugly head ? Look at the EDL members........those Sikhs who live in the UK know the reaction you would get if you met one of these on the street. Oh, but it's a case of mistaken identity, they don't know the difference between us and Muslims, I hear you say. Really ? How come no orthodox Jew with an uncut beard is never mistaken for being a Muslim ???? How come no black people are ever mistaken for being Muslim ? This is racism and we need to be fighting against it rather than supporting it. We are never going to be acceptable to them until we have totally assimilated, ie. lost our own heritage and culture. They are desperate now and have their hands full with Muslims; this is why they are trying to push us forward to fight against Muslims. We have to look at the bigger picture and see the issues that have arisen in this country. Multiculturalism has failed.....how many white English people do you know living in Sikh dominated areas like Southall / West London ? They have ALL moved out....why ???? They were saying many of the same things about us that are now being said about Muslims. If you preserve your own culture then you are not integrating with the host community, if you lose your culture then you are a traitor to your own heritage. The economic problems have caused huge anger in the working classes, they are sick of mass immigration and opinion is going towards the right.

They need Sikhs on their side to use us as cannon fodder against Muslims. Also it gives them credibility and helps them show they are not racist. Unfortunately some Sikhs are getting really desperate and feel we should align ourselves with them. When will we learn that people are only going to like you when they need to use you or you are living exactly as they say ? The British liked us during the first world war when we gave thousands of sacrifices and only a year later (1919) the Jallianwala Bagh massacre happened. Hindus loved us pre-1947 but then we all know what happened after that. Sikhs should be strong enough to sort out our own problems.

This documentary is very pro Indian government; very disappointed with Kanwar Sandhu, thought he would give a more balanced view about the genocide of the Sikhs instead of making it look like it was the Sikhs fault.

This is in 9 parts. Has an english and punjabi version. Has lots of eye witness accounts (including Giani Puran Singh and Giani Sahib Singh), also interview with Sant Bhindranwale's brother. Also contains vile fascists such as Kuldeep 'Hitler' Brar spouting their lies. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erg-Nhya3cQ

Absolutely, that what dasam bani is for - to create that bir ras. We also need to be training mma/boxing/wrestling/muay thai ......hard full contact martial arts that work.....EVERY Singh needs to be doing this.

Good on you shera, when they get a strong response they start to 'understand'. This is what we need to do, but unfortunately most of us have lost our martial psyche/bearing.

After the Woolwich attack the issue of backlash against Sikhs comes up. We often hear the excuse that it is because they think we are Muslims, they don't know who Sikhs are etc etc. I think it is actually deep seated racism and hate against anyone who wears external religious symbols and is of Asian appearance. Normally it is politically incorrect to be racist, but when terror incidents occur it gives people an excuse and suddenly becomes acceptable; it gets the chance to come out. Those of you that wear dastaar and have a beard know how much racism we have suffered since 9/11. How many of you haven't had dirty looks, people laughing at you as you go by, someone calling you 'Bin Laden' ? Is this really a case of mistaken identity or is it a new form of racism directed at Muslims and any ethnic minority that wear outwards religious symbols ? Ask Singhs who go on the tube to work and get dirty looks........do educated, professional Londoners going to their workplace in Central London not know who Sikhs are ?????....come on guys, wake up ! I myself have experienced this and heard from other Singhs that even if you tell them you are not a Muslim and are a Sikh, they don't care. If it were genuine mistaken identity you would at least get an apology. The offenders in the Woolwich attack were black converts to Islam. Have you heard of any attacks against black people ? Surely these 'angry' people would have mistakenly identified black people as militant Islamists, but there are two reasons: 1) After all the racist abuse black people have suffered in this country, it is too politically incorrect to be racist to them. 2) Black people are known to be aggressive, strong and would not tolerate racism today. (and rightly so) Also, orthodox Jews have long beards and head covering, surely these 'angry' people would have mistaken a Jew as a Muslim convert. They haven't studied RE so they don't know the difference between a Jew and a Muslim, right ? The above points prove that it is a very selective anger that comes from these racists and they understand who's who when they want to. Previously racism was against Irish, blacks and asians, now it is the turn of Muslims and Asians wearing head covering or with long beards (ie. Sikhs). Note: to state the obvious, I am not saying that blacks and Jews should be attacked, I am using it as an example to prove that attacks on Sikhs (according to the logic and reason that is normally given) are racism and not a case of mistaken identity.

I would say that deep down all the EDL are racist and anti-religion; they will never accept us as we are different. They are trying to show that they like us now because it is a publicity stunt....give it time and you will see their true colours. Our Gurus faced the problem of forced conversion to Islam by the ruler of the time and they were never against the religion but rather the warped translation of it by some of it's followers. Please read Zafarnama; Guru Sahib does not say anything against Islam rather against Aurangzeb who disgraced his religion. Very interesting video on the demographics, but it is ironic that many of the so called British values that the EDL cherish are the ones that are causing their culture to be wiped out !!! Liberalism, feminism and most of all the attack on family values are what are causing all other populations to decline while the Muslims have strong family values which is why they are increasing. Western countries are now legalising gay marriage......what do they expect is going to happen to them ? Like the video says, you need at least two children per family to preserve a culture, this won't happen with single parent families, high divorce rates, relationships outside of marriage, promoting gay marriage. It will happen with getting married at a young age, having lots of children, putting the family first rather than career aspirations, mothers who are devoted to their family and not arrogant and selfish as nowadays, fathers who are real men who can give children discipline. As Sikhs these are the things we need to concentrate on if we want to save our culture rather than aligning ourselves to right wing groups who are using us as pawns.