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It makes me laugh, when I read posts like this. One question, do you know what Guru ji is feeling? Are you in oneness with mighty Akaal? If you have answered "no" to any one of these questions, then how can you write a post like this? Your post portrays an image of Guru ji being contradictive. If the entire Guru's have not discriminated in any way, who gives us the right to say what Guru ji wants, unless you have reached the same level on your spiritual journey and fully understand the want they wanted. If you give a diamond to an ordinary person and asked him or her to value it, they will not be able to value the diamond unless they had the knowledge to recognise its quality. Same with understanding of Guru ji, you require the spiritual knowledge and uplift to release what Guru ji's really wants. It is the personal choice if someone marries otherperson but when rehat is concerned then it becomes panthic issuse u can get married in court in case of intercommunity marriages but in case some one insists on ANAND KARAJ then it is firm no ,such marriage in gurdwara is sacrilege. Take example of nagpur where local sikh sangat stopped such marriage and banned such marriages in gurdwara in future.In Jamsheshpur in Madya Pradesh sikh sangat has banned such maariages and mariages of shorn hair persons in gurdwaras. As per guru ji sikh should be like guru ji HUKUM RAJAI CHALNA NANAK LIKHIA NAL. understand its meaning. U r not equal to gursikh how can u talk of changing rehat to which even GURUS were bound. R u equal to gursikh like BANDA SINGH BAHADUR WHO BORE THE TORTURE OF PUTTING HIS OWN SON HEART IN HIS MOUTH ? WHAT ABOUT SINGHNIS WHO GOT THEIR KIDS CUTTINTO PIECEES AND GOT BODY PARTS INTO THEIR MOUTHS AND AND ALSO GOT GARLANDED WITH IT ? WHAT ABOUT A UNKNOWN SIKH WHO FELT DELIGTED TO BE MARTYEDURING BANDA SINGH BHADUR TIMES THEN CLAIMING TO BE NON SIKH?These people just followed the REhat and cosisdered themselves as humble sikhs.Then u r nobody to comment upon REHAT . See ur position and position these singhs u r so small before them. When have I said any thing about the rehyat the gurus followed and so on? My argument is solely on, the rehyat that is followed in the modern era by Amrtithdhari sikhs is not 100% accurate to what the guru's followed (this is totally based on a personal opinion, that i have gathered from research articles and papers). So you are saying, guru's were tied down by this rehyat? that suggest, they were not free in any way from the worldly attachments. Mate, our Gurus were not bound to anything, they were free souls, soring the sky's like birds. From what I understand, Bani is about Prem (Love). Jin Prem Kiyo, Thin Hi Praab Paayo. To obtain fullness within myself, i would need to learn, how i can love my fellow human being before I take the journey to spritual enlightment. Thats why I try to read Bani and hopefully one day the word of the Guru will allow me to ecsape out of this dullity and the rain drop will merge back into the sea. You or people on this forum may not potray me as a sikh, it does not change my view on life. Well the positive point, I do not carry any label. So my friend we have individual path, you walk your's and i will walk mine. Good Luck and God Bless. Guru Fethay.

It makes me laugh, when I read posts like this. One question, do you know what Guru ji is feeling? Are you in oneness with mighty Akaal? If you have answered "no" to any one of these questions, then how can you write a post like this? Your post portrays an image of Guru ji being contradictive. If the entire Guru's have not discriminated in any way, who gives us the right to say what Guru ji wants, unless you have reached the same level on your spiritual journey and fully understand the want they wanted. If you give a diamond to an ordinary person and asked him or her to value it, they will not be able to value the diamond unless they had the knowledge to recognise its quality. Same with understanding of Guru ji, you require the spiritual knowledge and uplift to release what Guru ji's really wants.

True.. but let the sell-outs control the air-waves, we gotta make sure we control the Guru Ghars and Where Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaaj goes. Just over the last 3 weeks over 6 GuruGhars (that we know of) conducted mixed faith marriages - against Akal Thakt guidelines. A straight slap in our face. My brother, You can say what ever you like. You seem naive and immature, in way of your thought. Amrithdhari are a minority in the Sikh faith, you know that and everyone in the world knows that. This rubbish about quality not quantity, mate we can't even afford our own TV channel and Muslims have more than 10 channels and they are free to view. Muslims have the majority and they get equal amount of funding. On the political front, there is no say for minority, but the majority has a say. You guys are all on living on cloud kuku land, wake up smell the coffee and stop day dreaming. The world is not against the panth, is just people like you and the media which feed of it. If you are going to give some crap about 1984, I have heard it before and yes we should respect what has happened, but we shouldn't let it judge our thought process on decisions made for the entire Sikh faith. Mate, these called sell outs are the one that keeps the Sikh faith in respectable view of the public, if any of you fundamentalist had any say , we would be all classed as the Taliban. Think first before you say something, that's why god gave you intelligence. (Just some wise words) Guru Fethay Muslims have 10 channels- Easy!.. they have 55 nations with GDP's spent on promoting Islam - use your head! Sikhs dont even have a religion according to Indian institution, let a alone a state, nation or any budget. Why would i care what the media portray us as? Just read our History.. From the Guru ji's, to Shaheeds during Misle, to Shaheeds during British to Shaheeds during 1984 to Shaheeds nows, and our brothers in arms (i.e. Soorma Jagtaar singh Hawara) - We have always been portrayed as extremists, terrorists, outlaws. Our Father, Dhan Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaaj was an outlaw. I have no time for far left liberal ramblings.. join ppl like Sunny Hundal and write endless coloumns - All gibberish. Because people like Sunny Hundal, knock people like you for 6. There is a calm and collective way of discussion, but you guys like to jump the bullet and don’t think. What is the difference in you and the Taliban? You both have extreme point of views, you have no time for left liberals because they question what you say and there are no answers. If you explain your point of view in a calm and collective manner, mate people will listen, plus you will create nimartha within yourself. About the Muslim channels, you are right, they have a colossal amount of funds, but majority of there funds comes from Muslims in this country. Then we have the Astha channel, was charged before now free to view. This is a totally different topic so I will leave it here.<BR style="mso-special-character: line-break"><BR style="mso-special-character: line-break"> As for the liberal views, there is no difference in you and BNP. There is a form of racism. Guru fethay

True.. but let the sell-outs control the air-waves, we gotta make sure we control the Guru Ghars and Where Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaaj goes. Just over the last 3 weeks over 6 GuruGhars (that we know of) conducted mixed faith marriages - against Akal Thakt guidelines. A straight slap in our face. My brother, You can say what ever you like. You seem naive and immature, in way of your thought. Amrithdhari are a minority in the Sikh faith, you know that and everyone in the world knows that. This rubbish about quality not quantity, mate we can’t even afford our own TV channel and Muslims have more than 10 channels and they are free to view. Muslims have the majority and they get equal amount of funding. On the political front, there is no say for minority, but the majority has a say. You guys are all on living on cloud kuku land, wake up smell the coffee and stop day dreaming. The world is not against the panth, is just people like you and the media which feed of it. If you are going to give some crap about 1984, I have heard it before and yes we should respect what has happened, but we shouldn’t let it judge our thought process on decisions made for the entire Sikh faith. Mate, these called sell outs are the one that keeps the Sikh faith in respectable view of the public, if any of you fundamentalist had any say , we would be all classed as the Taliban. Think first before you say something, that’s why god gave you intelligence. (Just some wise words) Guru Fethay

Bro u have the slave mentality first u cannot compare sikhi with other religions secondly even Guru ji were bound by REHAT MARYADA. U talk of limited no remember after battle of chamkaur shaib only 3 sikhs remained with guru ji so numbers r immaterial no one can change rehat maryada as rehat bina na sikh kahawawe , Only sikhism allows other religions right to worship at their places it does not mean that we should change rehat maryada according to convinace. Let me tell u all gurus were very strict about code of conduct or rehat.Guru gobind singh ji incoporated and made it compulsory , is ur self made maryada superior to gurus . U should go to some mahasha or leftist forum not write this rubish here . According to sikh rehat maryada only anand karaj can be held between sikh as it is only ceremony for sabat soorat rehatwan sikhs. Bruv, You need to take the chill pill. That is the most absurd thing I have heard from you guys. If Mani007 is questioning your faith, you have no answers but are pushing him away. Has he made any offensive statement on this forum? He has given his point of view. Everyone talks about Rehayt marayda, like it's the end all to everything and use the Gurus as an example of Rehat Maraydha followed by them is what we follow today is 100% accurate. The only thing we have in the present, which is 100% accurate, is Sri Guru Granth Sahaib ji. Tell me where in Maharaaj it says you cannot marry in Gurdawara if you are not a Sikh. Large majority of the Sikhs in this country cut their hair but still attend Gurdwara regularly, if they decide to marry a non-Sikh and they want marry them in a Gurdwara. I don't see any problem with that. If you are going to push these Sikhs out then they will go elsewhere. If push these Sikhs out, the Sikh faith will shrink in this country and the world. If this is the case, you will see what has happened in France. You would be asked to take your Kirpan off and probably you're Dusttar. I have seen how Sikhs are treated in France, when they have to get there passport picture taken, they have to remove there Dusttar and open their hair. Guru Fethay It is u who needs pill first u have very limited knowldge of sikhi secondly u have self justification , Those who cut their hair r called SIRGUMS by GURU NANAK DEV JI all gurus follow rehat U have selfish outlook sikhi is made of feeling of conviction and sarifice u have no right of demeaning holy dastar. French seems to forgotten the world wars when dastar wearing singhs freed their nation from germans . Sirgums have no right to get their ardass in all takhts. sikhi reject numbers, STATUS OF THOSE WHO CUTT THEIR HAIR ACCORDING TO ENGLISH VERSION OF SAKHI REHAT KI BY BHAI NAND LAL SINGH JI GURU SAID STRICTLY NO SIKH WILL USE USTRA THOSE WHO USE OR TRIMS HAIR IS LIKE HAVING PHYSICAL RELATIONS WITH THEIR OWN DAUGHTERS THESE WERE THE WORDS OF DASMESH PITA JI, those who cutt their hair and call themselves sikhs should learn from these injuctions. According to GUR SHOBA OF SENPATI NO SIKH WILL EVER GO TO ANY CEREMONY OF SIRGUMS OR CUTSIKHS THOSE INTERACTING WITH SIRGUMS BECOME TANKHAIAS.I amm writing in caps as these were the spoken words of GURU JI , Those who question the rehat should adopt another religion as they can do ardass at takhts as members of another religion . All founders of all religions kept their hair intact. Kesh is first test of sikhi. Even punjab and haryana high court has given legal recoginition to rehat maryada. If u do not have respect for sikhi then it is better for u adopt another religion in words of guru ji REHAT PYARI MUJGH KO SIKH PYRA NAHIN. Even I FACE MORE DIFFICUTY WITH SABAT SOORAT IN INTEIROR OFindia itself more humilation than france we kept our swaroop we r not cowards like u. Iam proud to announce despite narrow escape during 1984 riots we kept our swaroop if u people call us fanatic never mind atleast we r not cowards like u. Good on you my friend, I will carry on as I am. What you just told me shows contradictions in the Sikh Dharma. You believe Guru Granth sahaib is your Guru, but you prefer to follow these Rehat Maryda (Which are not 100% CORRECT). Quick question, what is the difference in Sikhs and Muslims? Because from what you have said I can’t see any, just another boxed religion with do's and don'ts. Mate, you talk about the Sikh saroop, but how many Christians in Punjab have the Sikh saroop. I've seen them my selfes in India, they look like Singh’s but they are Christians.

WOW, if only people would actually READ posts. Please READ the post, and see in what context I have used those pictures. Yeah you are right, its up to Singhs like me whether I wear a dastar or not, yeah you know what I'm gona start wearing my hair in a pony tail now, maybe put in a few braids here and there to. Yes, that makes perfect sense now doesn't it. We don't want to be brahmins yet we should look like them lool. You can wear the Dustaar any way you like, I don’t really care. You can have braids, I wouldn't care less. As for the Brahmins, We appose them so much but we act like them. Hope that makes a bit clearer for you to understand, I shouldn’t put it so philosophically. Guru Fethay

Bro u have the slave mentality first u cannot compare sikhi with other religions secondly even Guru ji were bound by REHAT MARYADA. U talk of limited no remember after battle of chamkaur shaib only 3 sikhs remained with guru ji so numbers r immaterial no one can change rehat maryada as rehat bina na sikh kahawawe , Only sikhism allows other religions right to worship at their places it does not mean that we should change rehat maryada according to convinace. Let me tell u all gurus were very strict about code of conduct or rehat.Guru gobind singh ji incoporated and made it compulsory , is ur self made maryada superior to gurus . U should go to some mahasha or leftist forum not write this rubish here . According to sikh rehat maryada only anand karaj can be held between sikh as it is only ceremony for sabat soorat rehatwan sikhs. Bruv, You need to take the chill pill. That is the most absurd thing I have heard from you guys. If Mani007 is questioning your faith, you have no answers but are pushing him away. Has he made any offensive statement on this forum? He has given his point of view. Everyone talks about Rehayt marayda, like it’s the end all to everything and use the Gurus as an example of Rehat Maraydha followed by them is what we follow today is 100% accurate. The only thing we have in the present, which is 100% accurate, is Sri Guru Granth Sahaib ji. Tell me where in Maharaaj it says you cannot marry in Gurdawara if you are not a Sikh. Large majority of the Sikhs in this country cut their hair but still attend Gurdwara regularly, if they decide to marry a non-Sikh and they want marry them in a Gurdwara. I don’t see any problem with that. If you are going to push these Sikhs out then they will go elsewhere. If push these Sikhs out, the Sikh faith will shrink in this country and the world. If this is the case, you will see what has happened in France. You would be asked to take your Kirpan off and probably you’re Dusttar. I have seen how Sikhs are treated in France, when they have to get there passport picture taken, they have to remove there Dusttar and open their hair. Guru Fethay

Sorry, I have to object to your post. Ironically, I will be using a source from a nihang site (all due credit to them for putting it up) Note that in this source there are only FIVE women dressed 'exactly like men' (presumably representing the panj pyare), the rest are ALL wearing FEMALE clothing, clearly they are NOT trying to make themselves indistiguishable from men. Also note that they were quite easily recognised as women by the muslim women, and also that clearly not all were widows as they are mentioned as being married and being made up of both old and young! Adorning weapons, chakars [quoits] and knifes they wore many [in their dumallas – high conical turbans]. Forty kilos of weapons and armour they adorned. Dressed alike were young and old women. They were strong, powerful and of great charity. Some wore dress of women. Five dressed like men [i.e. in full warrior dress]. Getting Singh and Singhnias ready thus. Sending one Sirdar with them, the Singhnia set off towards the royal palace. The powerful Singhs stood outside. All the royal women came out to see them. They [singhs] had great moustache and beards. Their eyes were full of rage and eyebrows greater. Wearing many weapons. Seeing their great form and beauty, they were as if incarnations of the warrior spirit. The Begams were astonished. Begams sent them [singhs] gifts. Saluting the Singhs, they sent them away. Then they looked at the Singhnia. They took them into their palace. They [singhnia] said, “Sat Siri Akal”. They replied “Salaam” and sat them down. Seeing their form and strong bodies. Dressed in armour and weapons. Listening to their conversation of plundering and war. And how to kill a hunt. And how to aim with bows and muskets. Hearing them, they were astonished. Under their 'Salwars' [trouser like garments], were 'Kashehras' [breeches]. Seeing their great clothes. Listening to their manly words. The Begams were astounded. The four Singhnia had a special female dress. They wore silver ornaments twenty pounds in weight. Seeing this they were awe struck. Their Salwars were twenty yard long. They wore heavy lower garments. Their top knots stood span and half high. Their Shmeezes were of special design. Their physiques were large and heavy. Seeing them the Begams were astounded because they stood unarmed and weak of body. Fearing the Singhnia they cowered to half their size. Then began discussion on religion. Singhnia dismissed all other religions. The traditions of Muslims [Turks] they called false. The way of Mohammed they said was full of faults. [it has to be noted that this was a time of extreme persecution of Sikhs by Sunni Muslim Moguls and Afghans and there was great hostility towards Sunni Muslims] The Singhnia described all the atrocities of the Turks. Hearing them the Begams shuddered. Shocked they covered their mouths with their hands. Hearing of the chastity, sincerity and morals of the Singhs. The Begams spoke nodding their heads. “Singhnia you are of great fate. You move about with you husbands. We are pathetic and suffer greatly. Our life is like life imprisonment. One king has sixty wives. By marrying we are as if trapped in a trap”.' ('Naveen Panth Prakash', Giani Gian Singh Nirmala, 1877, Bhasha Vibhag Publication, Pa.1151-1153) (Shastar vidiya site) In the below image, the bibi is quite obvsiouly wearing a small keski under the chunni like bibia in india do, also in full female dress and even earings, these facts plus the small keski (not a dumalla), do NOT in the least suggest war or disguise as a man. http://www.amritworl...g_with_wife.jpg Furthermore J. D. Cunningham himself saw and wrote in the middle of the Nineteenth Century when he wrote his book, History of the Sikhs. He writes: "The Sikh women are distinguished from Hindus of their sex by some variety of dress but chiefly by a higher top knot of hair." (Searchsikhism.com) Now if someone did not know women wore keskis, then they might easily mistake their small keski for a "high topknot", eg. eg if you look close enough at the below pic, you can see a keski underneath, but would someone with no idea about females wearing a keski even think it was anything but a joora? http://tapoban.org/a...singhnibig.html or even this one http://tapoban.org/a...--File0004.html That's a pretty cheap shot. These images are after 1930's. That dose not proves anything. Look it’s totally up to the Bibi if She wants wear a Dastaar or not. We are becoming the new Brahmins. We appose them so much, we are becoming them.

You have got this wrong, red is not the colour of the Hindus. Green is the colour of the Muslims. The colour of the Hindus is Orange and White. There is no problem in wearing different colours, if you look at some old pictures in Punjab of Bibia, you see a lot of them wearing green and red. Correct me if I'm wrong, I have never seen any images of bibia wearing Dastars before 1930's. All images painted after the 1930's, showed bibia wearing dastars (painting to illustrate the times of the gurus 1500-1700).

I have number of friends who have ordered this sword from the states, in total it worked out to be £222.00 including customs. Yes its far cheaper then the UK. You have to be careful in purchasing a sword in the UK, it can become difficult and there might be checks done you from the company. Many of friends did opt for the Windlass sword, it was cheaper. Like I have mentioned above the blades are identical, some people on independent forums and website have stated that Cold steel have used Windlass blades on Cold steel Shamshir. But they are both fantastic pieces. Windlass' Scimitar Sword Steel1065 Carbon SteelWeight1.8lbsPoint of BalanceNOT PROVIDEDPrice RangeUS$209

Veerji how much is that in pounds? I was looking at on their website, are they any good and I think they use carbon steel to make realy strong samurai swords aswell so the metal is top. They rely need to start making kirpans so we get decent shastar! My Brother, They are extremely hard to get hold of in England, but I could be proved wrong. There is another company that make identical blades, but they have slightly different look e.g. the handle and scabbard. The company that makes these swords are called Windlass, they are an Indian based company. There version is slightly cheaper than the cold steel version, but the blades are identical (in look and the material used). If you are interested in purchasing this sword, number of American sites sell this sword, it cost around $200-$300. You would have to shop around. The sword for a modern day blade is fantastic. Have a look at this following site, this person just gives you a quick demonstration on the same sword. http://www.sword-buyers-guide.com/arab-swords.html Good luck and guru fethay

Guys, The price is a lot of money, but you can get good quality kirpana for the fraction of the price. In Punjab there are many companies set up to cater for these needs. Carbon steel is the modern day material used to make a good kirpan. Than that also depends on the quality of carbon steel. You can spend in a range of £5.00 to £300.00 on a good blade. The price will depend on the quality of your steel. You can buy the cheap stuff and last you a life time depending on the maintenance of the blade. I have just purchased a Shamshir from Cold steel. The spec is below and the quality of steel. I paid 7500.00 Ind Ruppe. Shamshir 88STSSpecifications: Overall: 36 1/4" Blade: 30 1/2" Thick: 3/16" Weight: 30.1oz. Steel: 1055 Carbon Guru Fethay