singh_soldier

It will be nice if Bundha can reply to this thread. According to Bundha, Guru Sahib praised krishan "bhagwan". But thats not true. Guru Sahib just re-wrote a story thats written in one of the puranas(hindu religious texts).

yea, its a sort of translation. Infact the better word for translation is that its a story re-written. In the other thread about Krishan, Bundha mentioned that Krishan "bhagwan" is being praised in Krishan Avataar, but that is not true. Krishan Avataar is just a story re-written to impart moral, spritual and martial lesson to sikhs. In this story re-written, characters are named to convey messages. The most powerful and brave warrior in the Krishan Avataar is named as Kharag Singh.

Here is a dohra from Krishan Avataar bani from Sri Dasam Granth ਦੋਹਰਾ ॥ दोहरा ॥ DOHRA ਬਾਲ ਰੂਪ ਹ੍ਵੈ ਉਤਰਿਯੋ ਦਯਾ ਸਿੰਧ ਕਰਤਾਰ ॥ ਪ੍ਰਿਥਮ ਉਪਾਰੀ ਪੂਤਨਾ ਭੂਮ ਉਤਾਰਯੋ ਭਾਰ ॥੯੩॥ बाल रूप ह्वै उतरियो दया सिंध करतार ॥ प्रिथम उपारी पूतना भूम उतारयो भार ॥९३॥ The Lord, ocean of mercy has incarnated in the form of a child and in the first place he has liberated the earth from the buf den of Putna.93. The word Kartaar means God. Did God incarnate as Krishan ? In Shabad Hazare Patshahi 10, Guru Gobind Singh has clearly rejected the notion that God incarnated in the form of Krishan. ਤਿਲੰਗ ਕਾਫੀ ਪਾਤਿਸ਼ਾਹੀ ॥੧੦॥ तिलंग काफी पातिशाही ॥१०॥ TILNG KAFI OF THE TENTH KING ਕੇਵਲ ਕਾਲ ਈ ਕਰਤਾਰ ॥ केवल काल ई करतार ॥ The supreme Destroyer is alone the Creator, ਆਦਿ ਅੰਤ ਅਨੰਤਿ ਮੂਰਤ ਗੜ੍ਹਨ ਭੰਜਨਹਾਰ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ आदि अंत अनंति मूरत गड़्हन भंजनहार ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥ He is in the beginning and in the end, He is the infinite entity, the Creator and the Destroyer…Pause. ਨਿੰਦ ਉਸਤਤ ਜਉਨ ਕੇ ਸਮ ਸ਼ੱਤ੍ਰੁ ਮਿਤ੍ਰ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥ निंद उसतत जउन के सम श्त्रु मित्र न कोइ ॥ The calumny and Praise are equal to him and he has no friend, no foe, ਕਉਨ ਬਾਟ ਪਰੀ ਤਿਸੈ ਪਥ ਸਾਰਥੀ ਰਥ ਹੋਇ ॥੧॥ कउन बाट परी तिसै पथ सारथी रथ होइ ॥१॥ Of what crucial necessity, He became the charioteer ?1. ਤਾਤ ਮਾਤ ਨ ਜਾਤ ਜਾਕਰ ਪੁਤ੍ਰ ਪੌਤ੍ਰ ਮੁਕੰਦ ॥ तात मात न जात जाकर पुत्र पौत्र मुकंद ॥ He, the Giver of salvation, has no father, no mother, no son and no grandson; ਕਉਨ ਕਾਜ ਕਹਾਹਿੰਗੇ ਤੇ ਆਨਿ ਦੇਵਕਿ ਨੰਦ ॥੨॥ कउन काज कहाहिंगे ते आनि देवकि नंद ॥२॥ O what necessity he caused others to call Him the son of Devaki ?2. ਦੇਵ ਦੈਤ ਦਿਸਾ ਵਿਸਾ ਜਿਹ ਕੀਨ ਸਰਬ ਪਸਾਰ ॥ देव दैत दिसा विसा जिह कीन सरब पसार ॥ He, who has created gods, demons, directions and the whole expanse, ਕਉਨ ਉਪਮਾ ਤਉਨ ਕੋ ਮੁਖ ਲੇਤ ਨਾਮੁ ਮੁਰਾਰ ॥੩॥੧॥ कउन उपमा तउन को मुख लेत नामु मुरार ॥३॥१॥ On what analogy should he be called MURAR?3.

Where is this topic going ? This Raju dude is just spoiling this thread. Its pretty easy to understand that krishan is called a keet in Sri Dasam Granth. Krishan Avatar is just a story re-written by Guru Gobind Singh. Its not praising Krishan. Banis like chaubees avatar and charitropakhyan are STORIES REWRITTEN to impart moral and spiritual lessons to sikhs by Guru Gobind Singh Jee.

Man, why are u spoiling this thread. Translations have LOTS of mistakes in them. its pretty easy to understand that KEET MEANS INSECT. Any person with bit of IQ can understand keet means a worm/insect.

this topic is going off topic. Krishan is called a keet and its pretty easy to understand that keet means worm. the krishan avatar is just a STORY RE-WRITTEN by Guru Gobind Singh. The verses that praise Krishan are just a part of the story(which is taken from puranas). Guru jee is just writing the translation of the story and in between gives his own opinion by changing character names and praising the bravery of Kharag Singh.

Climate problems, environment issues, peak oil, energy shortages are one of the most important events of our times. It effects the life of every person in the world. I feel as sikhs we are being lazy into taking this matter seriously. We are just too busy in getting academic degrees, but are unable to see the BIGGER picture.

The interesting thing is if Krishna is called an insect then why is Raam not called one? After all they are both considered to be Hindu deities. Thats a nice question. Both raam and krishan came to this earth. According to Hindu religious texts, they were avataars of vishnu. Both Ram and Krishan did good and bad actions (just like other mortals). May be the bad actions of Krishan were more bad than the bad actions of Ram and thats why krishan is called an insect. Ram is also not praised. Many like ram came and went. They were not able to escape the mighty Kaal. They were not able to wash their karmaa and had to face the Mighty Kaal upon their death.

Bundha, U need to read krishan avataar AGAIN. The real HERO of krishan avataar is KHARAG SINGH, who held krishan by his hair and threw him down. The stories of avataars are RE-WRITTEN by Dashmesh Pita for his sikhs. The names of chracters are chosen to convey messages to sikhs.

beadbi ?????????????? what a silly argument u making. it is U who is doing BEADBI by referring to a translation done by a mortal. Its pretty clear that the word KEET is used and the word keet means insect or worm. . MANY MANY insects like krishan came and went. They were unable to escape the MIGHTY KAAL.

oye chokravaliya, u shud be ashamed for believing the english translation more than the actual gurmukhi script. The word in bold is KEET. What does Keet means ????????????????????? Keet DOES NOT mean servant. In Sri Jap Ji Sahib, we read KEETAN ANDAR KEET KAR DOSEE DOS DHAREE.... kItw AMdir kItu kir dosI dosu Dry ] keettaa a(n)dhar keett kar dhosee dhos dhharae || Among worms, you would be considered a lowly worm, and even contemptible sinners would hold you in contempt. nwnk inrguix guxu kry guxvMiqAw guxu dy ] naanak niragun gun karae gunava(n)thiaa gun dhae || O Nanak, God blesses the unworthy with virtue, and bestows virtue on the virtuous.

http://www.sridasam.org/dasam?Action=Page&p=98 ਕਿਤੇ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਸੇ ਕੀਟ ਕੋਟੈ ਬਨਾਏ ॥ ਕਿਤੇ ਰਾਮ ਸੇ ਮੇਟਿ ਡਾਰੇ ਉਪਾਏ ॥ किते क्रिसन से कीट कोटै बनाए ॥ किते राम से मेटि डारे उपाए ॥ Somewhere He hath created millions of the INSECTS like Krishna. Somewhere He hath effaced and then created (many) like Rama.

Firstly who has Ram and Krishna raped ? What people are alluding to here is that both of them took advantage of the status-quo positions of the male in that society and 'exploited' women who were close to them. Secondly Sikhism is a 200 yr-old religion and has a newer narrative. The Sikh narrative is comparitively new, and thus is limited in content. Wait for the same period as these older religions have and then see what turns out. What if somebody you idolize today, turns out to be a rotten fruit tomorrow ? You will then be forced to defend them the same way Hindus go about defending Ram and Krishna. So my conclusion that if Sikhism has nothing to compare with the likes of Ram and Krishna, then they can only be thankful but if you take undue pride in something that hasn't happened yet. If it happens, then you too are forced to be obstinate and bury your heads in the sand like the rest of them ? Raju, the problem with the hindu religion is that Ram and Krishan are called avatars of Vishnu. Some even call Krishan God. Thats where the problem starts. Sikh Gurus made people worship ONE TIMELESS GOD. Hindu religion got lost with mortals like ram and krishan.

Man, u need to read another thread about a danish woman being groped in a bus in the presence of 40 odd bharat mataaians. This thread is discussing a VERY IMPORTANT ISSUE about how unsafe women are in India. We keep on talking about racism Indians face in the west, what about these western women raped, groped, sexually hararssed in India ?????? Read this: British gap year girl, 18, teaching in India 'raped by two taxi drivers' http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/...xi-drivers.html

I have heard many people saying that Sikhism came into being in 1469 when Guru Nanak Dev Jee took birth. But I feel we need to do veechar of this tukk : Satgur mera sada sada, na avai na jaye || oh abinaasi purakh hai sab mehi rahiya samaye || This clearly states that Satgur is SADAA SADAA (present throughout the 4 juggaas). In kaliyug, Satguru decided to come to this world via body in order to teach mortals via actions and to give Gurbani to humanity. But Satguru was present before kaliyug as well. It was Satguru who saved the honour of Draupadi via krishna and it was Satguru who saved the bhagats prahalad and dhruu.

uhh no ....i can name five of my immediate friends who were " taken advantage" of by hindu men, married men at that... one of them was a dentist :S Err... Sorry, but.. What does dentistry have to do with that? :6 :6 obviously with years of training on proper conduct with people you would expect better out of a dentist ...is that a surprise? It's surprising that one would think that. Years of training on proper conduct with people...doesn't have anything to do with a dentist. I am still confused. what are you saying> that doctors and dentists dont have that type of training?? on how to interact with people, their patients etc?? and what is expected of them in society? their moral and ethical obligations???? No need to bring dentists etc. into this. This is off-topic. Its not just dentistry, people from other educational backgrounds do have practical training that involves dealing with all sorts of people. It has nuthing to do with this topic. The reality is that bollywood, TV Serials has COMPLETELY CORRUPTED the minds and souls of young generation in India. NO GIRL IS SAFE IN INDIA. Even the middle aged women ( who are in their 40's) are NOT SAFE TRAVELLING PUBLIC PLACES.. yea i agree, no matter where or wat culture, there are corrupt ppl everywhere, why did i mention the dentist, because ,on average ,society has this trustful view towards health professionals ( not ALL ppl do so dont quoet me on this thing) so despite the years of training, if it couldnt get into his head, what do u expect from others...and a dentist or whoever isnt the only example this is limited to... like seriously why do you guys have to get so picky just relax and take a post for what it is man people who are educated, non educated, self proclaimed saadhs etc ppl from ALL DIFF bkgds do it, end of story..khalsa girl if you have a question specific to dentists why dont u pm me or else it steers the topic way off from where it started.. and yes u are right, i have persinally seen families worshipping bollywood FOBS as their gods or something and they get this corruption inside of them, so yes i would say that is a big source of problem in indian ppl in general ( including pakistani lok cus they watch these too) Gandhi used to sleep with girls. Mrs. Shobha who was very close to Gandhi openly admits she used to sleep with Gandhi in jail. Gandhi also slept with his neice. Now Gandhi is the father of HINDU NATION. When father is such a degraded person, what do u expect from the children of the nation ????

The bhagats WERE SIKHS OF SATGURU. Satguru has been PRESENT SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THE CREATION. It was only in Kaliyug that Satguru decided to come to earth in body and took 10 human forms. Bhagat prahalad and dhru were saved by GURU NANAK DEV JEE. The bhagats too were blessed with Naam by Guru Nanak Dev Jee. SIKHISM IS THE OLDEST RELIGION.

uhh no ....i can name five of my immediate friends who were " taken advantage" of by hindu men, married men at that... one of them was a dentist :S Err... Sorry, but.. What does dentistry have to do with that? :6 :6 obviously with years of training on proper conduct with people you would expect better out of a dentist ...is that a surprise? It's surprising that one would think that. Years of training on proper conduct with people...doesn't have anything to do with a dentist. I am still confused. what are you saying> that doctors and dentists dont have that type of training?? on how to interact with people, their patients etc?? and what is expected of them in society? their moral and ethical obligations???? No need to bring dentists etc. into this. This is off-topic. Its not just dentistry, people from other educational backgrounds do have practical training that involves dealing with all sorts of people. It has nuthing to do with this topic. The reality is that bollywood, TV Serials has COMPLETELY CORRUPTED the minds and souls of young generation in India. NO GIRL IS SAFE IN INDIA. Even the middle aged women ( who are in their 40's) are NOT SAFE TRAVELLING PUBLIC PLACES..

http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/St...ill+loves+India There is another thread on this forum about hindu mob sexually harrasing a CNN reporter. Well, here a Danish Girl is groped in a bus in the presence of 3 dozen bharat mataaians.

If you would like to see these facts, then please go read the RELIGIOUS HINDU scriptures. There, you will find the sexism that spreads through the minds of Hindus. The concrete examples which you are asking me for are in the religious Hindu scriptures. Christianity, along with Hinduism and Islam have countless set of restrictions against women for no reasons. These rules are sexist. I am not talking about the Hinduism TODAY. I am not the one who is stating my opinions. Please do your research on the Hindu religion. (NOT CULTURE..RELIGION) I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but I am not at all disrespectful to make things up about a religion. Again.. Please do your research. The PROOF etc you're looking for are the Holy Hindu Scriptures. Krishan has been called a KEET (INSECT) IN Dasam Granth Sahib Jee. Krishan used to pick up the clothes of young girls while they used to take bath. If such a person is considered to be God, what do u expect from the followers ? Ram left his wife just on the heresay. When such person are called God or avatars of God, the followers try to emulate the deeds of such persons and as a result the character of the "avatar" becomes a part of the character of his followers.

I was just curious to know about the practice of taking hukamnama. Did it start in 1708, when gurgaddi was given to Granth Sahib or was hukamnama used to be taken before 1708 ? Thanks