buddasingh

The high density of the Punjabi population in particular diaspora pockets permits them to not only bring India/Punjab but remain in India in places like Surrey. Surely there are multiple reasons and one can’t assume anything about any single person. But as a community here are some observations not necessarily about the youth, but the families and society in which they are raised (and therefore what kind of outcomes one can expect). It is important to recognize issues/observations and call them out as issues of a mentally ill community rather than celebrate them as we currently do. 1. Financially “Secure”-Unlike so many wayward youth populations that are in some way disadvantaged, usually economically, there is no inherit disadvantage for the Punjabi communities. In fact the majority are financially well off, often by way of all the wrong reasons. 2. Morally Bankrupt-Having said the majority of families are financially well off, they are also morally bankrupt. They operate on societal rules in India, giving shirts off backs at times, yet so immune to their own fraudulent ways they won’t don’t even see it. Also very willing to hurt others economically for their own gain and rationalizing it as some kind of “will pay one day”, or “he owes B who owes me” or “his money was dirty, so OK to steal it”. aka stealing is all good. 3. Bling is King -(for 55 year old family men too!)-Money and showing money is king. Gaudy, gross, tacky, and having the courage and security of sheep. Who needs sheep when the lions clothes are now cars, houses and lifestyle. Better economics can permit a community to build and mature. Perhaps it is a blip but better economics for Punjabis/Indians means greater ability to be corrupt and hurt others for own gain. Kids observe that money is the goal. 4. No Sikhi-Having no concept of sikhi. Assuming it is a caste birthright and bole sonayhal has something to do with tweaking a jatt mustache while holding a rifle in the other hand (and applies to all Punjabi “Sikhs” who identify with any caste). Hence ability to claim the label of high ideals while living as a caste hindu. Claiming the high ideal of Sikhi and being a proud Punjabi ‘sikh’. Claiming the heritage of brave warriors while licking the boots of white masters every morning with a shave and every few weaks with a haircut. Hypocrisy upon hypocrisy can’t teach values no matter how tough we pose. 5. Education is not School –having no concept of what education actually is. Formal educations might assist but real education starts in the home and at it’s core values, respect, and love. Punjabi’s/Indians have a very high degree of unique anti-social uneducated traits amongst “educated professionals”. Many even use those anti-social traits in climbing to that “educated status”. All communities have this, but ever want to easily find a doctor who will hurt patients for financial gain, Punjabis/Indians are second to none. I also suggest true gursikh professionals because of their background are amongst the best in the world. How are kids suppose to want a sincere education when we simply adopted academic degree bling as the new caste system. All cultures have negative issues unique to them. A number of points could be written about any group. The Punjabi ‘sikh’ community is no different but it is so sad given that the teachings of the most amazing guides available to humanity of the Guru Panth and Guru Granth are within reach. Grow up in households with values described above and there is greater chance you will be a gangster. Those are also gangsters who own companies, wear suits, are doctors, lawyers, tradespeople etc. These Punjabi business/professional gangsters are just wiser about hiding their anti-social traits. Question is why are you and I k**s**ng a** rather than calling them out? These traits are no less a disease than abuse of anand karag.

You sound extremely intelligent for your age. Do the following over weeks or months if necessary. The goal is not to convince your parents of anything but to educate yourselves as a family. You will grow up continuously and quickly in the next few years. Ultimately you will be deciding your fate. First ask and learn about everything your parents want for you. What values they want you to have. What hopes they have for you. What concerns they have for you. If you don't have this relationship with your parents, develop it. Use humour, deference, curiosity, whatever is already comfortable in your relationship with your parents. At some point ask your parents precisely what aspect of this that they have an issue with. Do not argue, rather do your very best to get in a discussion. Pretend it is not about you and you are speaking of someone else's situation from a bird's eye view. Expect that your parents will make it personal. If they do ask them something along the lines of... 'may we just talk and discuss and learn without trying to convince anyone of anything'... Under no circumstances participate in arguing, it takes 2. If that means you have to exit the discussion and bring it up a few days later then do that. When they make it personal, listen to them as expressing concern for you. Listen to their concerns and address them. They may base their concerns on wrong information but it does not mean their concerns aren't real and valid as concerns. They may also learn from you. You want to develop a mutual trust and open dialogue if possible with your parents. You can then show them why you're interested in Sikhi. Tell them and show them online what kind of things interest you. When the time is right, explain to your parents that so many children are engrossed in negative things...gaming addictions, drugs, online bullying, etc. So many are engrossed in positive passions whether that be gaming, a sport, a sports team, a hobby, martial arts philosophy. Tell them this is part of your passion, part of your identity just like any other child and for you the values are part of learning about life and growing up. For a Sikh our hair is our spirit. Again when the time is right explain to your parents that you feel like by forcing you to cut your hair, they are cutting your spirit. You little bro are like the panj piare slowly walking forward. You were not comfortably or conveniently Sikh by family. Some of us never make a choice to be Sikh. We 'love' it, but as a comfortable pride. But your love is definitely headed in the direction of being worthy of great things. In that regard, it is OK that you are challenged in your march and OK to challenge yourself and face hard questions from your parents. The panj piare were challenged to give everything. But they recognized this as being given everything. Your challenges are as you say 'power in Gods hands'. As mentioned above, rest assured that the time will come soon when you will decide your own fate. Your parents will defer to your choices. In the meantime be strong and get even stronger. Learn learn and learn. Another person who recognized giving his head as the same as being given everything is Bhai Randhir Singh. Read the autobiography of Bhai Randhir Singh and his amazing strength and perspective to be free in the face of torture. In particular in the latter half of the book. There is a link here: http://vidhia.com/Bhai%20Randheer%20Singh%20Ji/Autobiography-Bhai-Sahib-Randhir-Singh-Ji.pdf

So what do I have to do or say to have you come and try to beat me up bro? Let me give it a try. See Jagsaw, if you want to give someone a beating, the approach in the above query is the way to set it up. First I get you with non-violence. I'm already the good guy. Second you will be bringing the violence, I will only be acting in self defence. Third I can even feel good about recording it and sharing it if you start it. But I don't want to beat you up bro, and forgive me for the enjoyable thought. (insert non-dirtyshaven dastared smilie here) Despite recognizing the word "fight" for a Sikh encompasses much beyond street fuss, I'm far from a peacenik bro. Fantasize about fights coming my way. Maybe i shouldn't but that's my weakness. But I never want to beat anyone who isn't fighting back. It can actually be hard to get into physical fights when you fight smart and start with an offer to dole out crazy fearless calm lessons with an inevitable byproduct of embarrassment to your opponents. Another rule I live by as a Sikh is I will refrain from aggressive confrontation with anyone who seems to be committed to gursikhi unless there is no choice. A soldier simply does not use force against a soldier in one's own army is the Sikhi I understand. Punjabi culture understands quite the opposite which is kill your brother if necessary, or clash in gurudwara in the presence of your guru, or knock off dastars on youtube for the world to see. Recording and sharing beatings of people who are begging for mercy on camera.... they gotta have been hit in the head (perhaps by beatings) to perpetuate that cycle. Even if we were speaking of beating as part of rehabilitative justice, the videos resembled more of an arbitrary mob anger issue than anything intent on justice or lessons. I say the softy approach is what we saw in the beating videos. Lazy, ignorant and the easy way out. Our warriors taught us a far more sophisticated love and war. Gold on the tips of arrows and poetry running through swords of mercy... a unique soldier that sees no human enemy. I'm not there, but I know the beating video doesn't make the cut.

Trying to understand what you're saying. It sounds like you're saying that you have no issue with those involved in the gang lifestyle. This involves destroying lives and famiies. You are raised in a Sikh household so you're loyalties are with gangsters who identify with Sikhs. But you're loyalties are not necessarily with SIkhi principles? Perhaps you're not saying that, which is why I ask. Also, what is your personal reason to be invested with Sikh politics?

He is likely violating the agreed terms of the program in addition to being a bully. He should report himself to his exchange program, apologize immediately, and seek to understand and appreciate differences. If he does this he will likely be supported and forgiven. If he does not proceed to report himself and apologize or tries to make up another story there is a very high likelyhood at this point that he will be dealing with expulsion and greater trouble.

Do the following only if it is truthful: Tell your mom she raised you well because you are finding it very difficult to maintain a lie. Tell her you also did not want to disappoint her. Then tell her you are sorry and need to tell her the truth. Tell her the truth. Do your best with your homework. Part of doing your best is never being afraid to ask for help. You sound young, your conscience here is an indication of your character. You'll be ok.

You have not failed anyone. At this stage you are reaching out and that takes immense courage. Reaching out when needed is not failure. There is an entire world out there that has far more fundamentally in common with you than the hurtful people of whom you speak. Where are you located? Approximately? Of course as you're aware you can communicate anonymously here.

Bro you've received a ton of love and support. Let me round it out with some more love and support with the edge of addressing missing peices. To come on a Sikh forum and say something like this, someone has failed you in knowledge and/or confidence growing up. Depending on the degree of your fears, (btw your beard is perfect), consider contemplation, knowledge, or a psychologist. I don't think you need the latter. Start with changing the title of your post which is illogical for a Sikh to something along the lines of 'my beard looks great, want further advice.' A fearless smile within, not a mirror, defines attraction. We define beauty and let it chase us all day long. Drop the baggage, get on board, and be a Sikh soldier serving humanity.

It's understood if you are pained and disappointed. But think about the shame, why shame? Perhaps initially there are many emotions. But shame, at a certain point, should not be one of them. It is your surrounding cultural context of caste, klan and honor in 'controlling' women that hoists this shame upon you. It is understood if you do what you can to convince her otherwise. But at a certain point, you and your dad have to realize that you are not your sisters keepers. Family/Klan is complex. It brings joy and pain. There is a great deal of hidden pain in families and sometimes the pain of shame is the greater part. That is not the failure of the klan but our collective cultural failure. The shame that is due to caste and klan alliances belongs to the culture that makes us that think that way. The shame that is due to not being able to 'control' your sister also belongs to the misogynistic culture around you. I know you speak out of extreme pain, but talk of preferring a woman dead due to family honor is part of a misogynistic indo culture that has no place in Sikhi. Know that there are intelligent Sikhs and a family of humanity around you that will support you and your dad (and wish greater wisdom for your sister in her life). We will judge not you in your pain, but support you, and be disgusted by those that judge you. If your own identity is true, it is defined by how you deal with what your klan does, not what your klan does. Take care of your own physical and mental health in order to assist your family to deal with this. You remain strong, not weak. There will be winds and storms that you can not change and when you realize that should not try, but control how you respond and you'll move mountains.

Define dating. One can say arranged marriage is manmati and paap in sikhi. But that would be absurd as it restricts the concept to a narrow definition. One arranged marriage can be a beautiful making of a union another can be abuse. Sad living of lies with how many Sikhs very respectfully find or get to know their partners before marriage and then pretend they hardly knew each other before marriage. We should also take greater care with cliché racist overtones eg. 'western dating'. It would be as easy to argue that the crudest sexual morals today are in india and in the punjab.

As kamc nicely puts it each to their own. However, sadly, even though one would think the guy in the video would understand a minority perspective, he is not the least bit graceful against a targeted minority in his own country. In fact he is ignorant to the extreme in how he mocks Sikhi with distributing ‘having a good time’ pictures of him in a barber shop and the tenor of his piece being consistent with “good riddance”. Be a poster boy for your after look as much as you want. But if you feel you are not a Sikh, then that’s your personal issue. Don’t mix that with something considered sacred by millions of others as some thing to be tossed in the garbage. Leave Sikhi, that is your business. Insult Sikhi like that and you make it hatred toward an identifiable group. Whether it crosses legal thresholds for action, does not change that it is indeed hatred toward an identifiable group. Being a minority (gay) does not give you a greater license for hatred toward another minority (sikhs). Cloaking it in advocating other rights makes it that much more insidious. I will defend minorities including LGBT from hate and attacks. But I will not give anyone a license to attack Sikhi. So he purports to have found a place to accept himself. I suggest to him that I as a turbaned straight Sikh can more sincerely stand up for discrimination against LGBT than him. He has just found a more comfortable corner from which to hate himself and others. Wish him luck on learning more about acceptance and tolerance so he can eventually accept himself regardless of labels.

Does this somehow edit the video evidence? In fact it enhances it against the perpetrators with suggestion that the names are in fact punjabi and they would know the significance of stomping on the dastar in addition to the risk of death or serious injury. This is far from "only a high school thing". It remains that the video shows there is a serious criminal attack involving punjabi bullies in numbers stomping on someone’s dastar and then robbing that person. The reliable cousin is the video. There needs to be a proper and thorough investigation. How is the above information to be reconciled with this poster earlier from an identifiable facebook account: The young man being assaulted is someone known to my person. Not only has this young man been heavily involved in so many of our community initiatives, he’s done it with such integrity. He is frankly a great kid and when I read comments that he stood his ground and wouldn’t let the other group of young men obviously berate and bully him I wasn’t surprised. I know if he were walking by another young man being similarly assaulted, he would have intervened to help Someone apart from police is hopefully in contact with the young man to find out what happened and even challenge him on the facts as necessary.

I'm with you bro/sis on the outrage with respect to this, but with a caveat. The outrage is not only the behavior but as you allude what leads to this kind of ape behavior. There is no doubt a punjabi subculture of self-hatred which transfers that hate to be directed at those that remind people of their own inability to be brave. The questions that need to be raised must be directed at all of us as a society. The irony is so many of the self-hating so called "apney" that will say "this is bad" and "I am Sikh" are part of the problem of subtle attacks on Sikhi. More important at this moment than the parents is the guy who stood up in his own defence rather than run. He must be supported to talk. He must tell the police what led to this and if there was any explicit part that constituted hate. He may not even realize it himself as we call these people "apney" This is an "Apna" http://www.esquire.com/entertainment/interviews/a17609/brian-murphy-sikh-temple-shooting-0113/ .not those guys. The caveat to which I refer above is 'due process'. As Sikh soldiers we believe in justice AND DUE PROCESS. Due process can come in many forms but it is always intelligent, fearless, demanding, and compassionate. Some cultures believe in torturing or meting out justice on relatives. Sure, speak to the parents, but also be compassionate as necessary. There is not a conclusive connection between raising kids and kids actions. It's possible that in the end after the perpetrators pay their debts, they need our hand. That is one massive debt for those thugs but they have choices to make moving forward after that. If they are on board, our hand should be there. I'm outraged and now is the time for answers and pushing the system to be demanding to get those answers. But moving forward when perpetrators are figuratively "in our custody" lets remain the soldiers that we are mandated to be.

With the kids scene with the exception of the brave hero, it was sad to see. It takes incredible courage and maturity for someone that age to handle things like that. The other children need an education. As for the adult school board, that sort of explains where the racism of the children comes from. For the school board to further bully the sikh kid rather than come to his protection....that calls for a media wrecking ball to come at them. Link to statement? Names of those on school board?

Not to stray too far from the topic but did not really follow thread to know what our bro/sis is referring to below. But it doesn't matter, respect just went way up. You're comment here has confidence and class bro/sis. I think more on this Sikh forum than most other forums do I see apologies in the midst of heated debates.

People closer to the incident appear to be reading this. Is the person attacked supported by counsel? Preferably someone who has a greater interest in the matter than just business. Some police are proactive. Some pursue the route involving the least work. Some are limited with respect to resources. Counsel should ensure any investigation is thorough and includes review of hate crime provisions. It is only recent that police see domestic violence as criminal. That mindset may overlook any hate crime aspect where we call these people 'apne' and absurdly even 'singhs'!! In my personal experience a great amount of bigotry and hate toward sikh articles of faith comes from punjabis whose own parents or grandparents wore a dastar.

If this was 6 white youngsters or 6 pakistani youngsters we would be querying hate crime. Who knows the significance of the dastar better those groups or ones who mock their own grandparents? The word apne should be buried forever as a shameful caste relic or only be used as a synonym for Pyiara as per Bhagat Puran Singh. Don't dare anyone call these criminals Sikhs. When does that free blood and caste subscription end? We need to get the apna/caste plaque out of our heads.

Police will not necessarily pursue the video and may not actively seek public assistance to ID criminals. They clearly should but no ID may be an excuse to do nothing. They need to be pressured by local Sikhs to seek ID via media. Whatever community this is...Brampton, Malton etc. You as a community sheltering criminals ganging up to protect bullies against a sikh who desecrate and stomp their boots on a young mans dastar. In doing so, from a Sikh perspective you as a community are part of the crime. Use the anon police tips line if you wish. It is also up to the community there to keep on top of what happened and whether a hate crime is also involved here. It is imperative that the person attacked be assisted to come forward and advise if there were any elements of a hate crime.

Anyone from this area? Anyone know the context of the fight which appears more a forced self defence than a consensual fight given that one guy has a t-shirt on in the snow and 5 helpers and the other is still wearing glasses with a jacket half off and wearing a heavy hoody. Consensual or not, when 5 additional guys started kicking and stomping him in the head with heavy winter boots, it was not a fight. It was aggravated assault, assault causing bodily harm, or assault with a weapon. Not to mention theft/robbery. And it's all on video. Nice job cameraman. Someone in the area get this video to the Bramptom police. After dealing with the criminal aspect, the guy should consider a civil suit. Anyone have IDs of anyone in the video? The circumstances certainly suggest bullying. Is anyone able to give more information?

Ji gal muk ge, thusee kion jagpay? Very cute, but kush samajia vee ha bro? Perhaps address the point if you have some reason to say that this is not an important or relevant issue or have some point to make. Yes, it hurts to think that we are racist and insular under the guise of “cultural preservation”, but that is precisely how we behave. Culture is important, but we don’t have a handle on the Sikh concept of culture. We only know Jatt culture, Ramgharia culture, etc. Our outer limits are "punjabi culture". 95% of all of that mindset including those who are doing their best to be sincere are in todays world insular and limiting Sikhi from being absorbed by the world. Our sister may not be going through such hell, as well as the next sister who posts, if we didn’t just sweep the mitti under the rug and then say how nicely the thread is wrapped up. Lets aspire to be Sikhs, where revolution is our comfort zone. Jadoon savai hundeeay, mitti uddeeay.

Bro please take care in the language you use on this issue. This is not directed at you, but all of us. You may have meant something else by ethnic group. However, language does not function in a vacuum. The backdrop in which our language about "caste" is employed is one of a, hypocritical, hateful, diseased culture when it comes to caste from those who claim Sikhi. Against that backdrop, a purported statement of a so-called caste/ethnic "fact" without any disclaimer is consent to the ugly status quo. It does not really matter how we label delineations, caste, ethnic group, race. The cultural backdrop we are dealing with is an enemy of Sikhi. Jatt/Khatri etc. is an ethnic group statement is no different than swastika carrying white supremacists say they only wish to promote positive white culture. When a certain mindset of hate and superiority is deeply engrained (for all castes), one can not do a bhangra dance, get a tattoo and say it's now culture or ethnicity that i'm celebrating. In fact it is very common amongst khanda brandishing enemies of Sikhi to say exactly what you said, that Jatt is an ethnic group and promote it as an identity on par with Sikhi while destroying Sikhi. Maybe one day a century or two away, we'll mature enough to sincerely study ethnographies rather than the self hatred, self pride we currently disguise as punjabi scholarly study on this subject. Today we may as well have Hitler running scholars on how Germans are a sincere race. Today Jatt/Khatri/Ramgharia is to Sikhi what Hitler was to Jews. We are killing Sikhi. We are stuck on punjabi divisions. We have not even entered the world stage that was gifted to us by our Gurujis. Even if we had the punjabi unity perfected, it is a note of shame that our Guruji's and teachings were so universal and yet we as Sikhs are so influenced by race and caste that we have almost negligible 'inter-racial' Sikh marriages around the world. Under the insular short sited, racist guise and comforts of "preserving culture" whether it be Jatt, Khatri or even Punjabi, we have done our Guruji's message a great disservice and completely missed the boat. We announce to the world how we are so "universal" and claim to be the torch bearers for "sarbat da bhalla" as long as "my culture is mine and yours is yours". Sikhi belongs to humanity. We as a collective who claim Sikhi are it's worst enemy.

I don't know what your heap of trouble was, but it's simply uncool and SEXIST to be commenting on ANY woman's attractiveness as part of an attack. There is no doubt that she has issues and has a comfortable relationship as a 'house-negro'. This post on her looks only only helps her make her case about punjabi males being sexist. Forget Chadha for a moment, I care more about you bro. On a Sikh forum with the name 'singh'. C'mon bro, no one is forcing us to be a saint soldier at every turn, BUT must we actually help Chadha make her case?!! By the way punjabi men, muslim men, hindu men, white men, black men ARE extremely sexist in different ways. Chadha seems to be racist in pointing the finger primarily at only select portion. Sikh men, if we make that claim, we must set ourselves apart. I don't claim to have it nailed down, but if we want to walk the path, a particular mentality becomes part of us.

It sounds like he was a Punjabi with Sikh heritage. Is anyone even aware if he identified as a Sikh? Or was he like the majority of Punjabi's with Sikh heritage whose claim to Sikhi is that akin to a caste? In other words a 'fraud'.

Something more substantial when it comes to the behzti state of the nation is where the majority that claim a stake in Sikhi love and courage' have taken 1 crown off their own head to make 100 surrender flags. And the majority of the remainder confuse their crown with a testosterone rush. The dances are far outside any cultural comfort zones with which I’m familiar. In one case the person is professionally engaged in dance. In the other case, the kid looks maybe 14 or 15 years of age. An age that is awkward in every aspect of identity formation. Odd visuals for me? Yes, as someone who may have had more street fights than dances. ..In case an alpha wishes to do an alpha comparison. Can I judge these people in some manner? Hardly. Nonetheless, maybe there is behzti in these posts. Mocking homosexual people generally and calling them names by using derogatory terms and claiming Sikhi! The irony, now that could be ultimate behzti. But Sikhi promotes understanding, not behzti for the sake of behzti. So understand that homosexual people are discriminated against and mocked. As a Sikh, regardless of others beliefs, we’ve taken it upon ourselves to protect others from harm and discrimination, not project upon others harm and discrimination. UNBELIEVABLE!!

Can’t pass on a 'thank you' through PM to a guest. That’s very kind of you. I benefit from so many posters on this site as well.