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N30S1NGH

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  1. I've been watching terry debate with world sikh organization and sunny hundal. He is been refuted many times. This guy over fixtation with sikhs fueled by ujjal dosanjh is quite worrisome but hope cbc obdusman can see- terry personal issues with us. Hardly impartial. i prefer neil macdonald over terry. His recent article was bit biased but shed some jaw dropping revelations and reconfirming our suspicion that all sikhs been saying all long, he is bit vulgar but surely he spilled lot of beans recently- http://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/jaspal-atwal-1.4563222 Opinion Why wasn't Jaspal Atwal on Canada's no-fly list?: Neil Macdonald It is unlikely that any effort was made to vet Atwal's name with CSIS By Neil Macdonald, CBC News Posted: Mar 06, 2018 4:00 AM ET Last Updated: Mar 06, 2018 4:00 AM ET Justin Trudeau's Minister of Infrastructure and Communities Amarjeet Sohi pictured with Jaspal Atwal in Mumbai Feb. 20. (Name withheld by request) 1557 shares Facebook Twitter Reddit Google Share Email About The Author Neil Macdonald Opinion Columnist Neil Macdonald is an opinion columnist for CBC News, based in Ottawa. Prior to that he was the CBC's Washington correspondent for 12 years, and before that he spent five years reporting from the Middle East. He also had a previous career in newspapers, and speaks English and French fluently, and some Arabic. More by Neil Macdonald Video by Neil Macdonald Related Stories Conservatives fail in bid to bring national security adviser to testify on Atwal affair Trudeau tries to distance himself from would-be political assassin Jaspal Atwal It's the Atwal effect — and nobody's immune Never mind the matter of why the failed assassin Jaspal Atwal would be invited to any sort of diplomatic reception, let alone one starring Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and his wife. Political parties can be venal and willfully blind to ugly realities in pursuit of votes, and that should be no surprise. The better question is this: how in heaven's name was that man allowed to set foot on a passenger aircraft, in an age of no-fly lists so strict that babies with names similar to violent extremists are denied boarding? The answer is that Jaspal Atwal is not on the list, and almost certainly never was, despite the fact that by any of the definitions law enforcement uses to define a terrorist, Jaspal Atwal is a terrorist. And not an aspirational one, either, like some of the clumsy fools who have been reeled in over the years by overweening government stings. No, Jaspal Atwal belonged to a cohort of Sikh extremists who, from their base in Canada, fought a violent war against the government of India in the '80s. Their hatred may very well have been justified – the Indian government was as ruthlessly vicious as they were. Air India bombing But the facts are not arguable: Atwal's fellow travellers bombed a jumbo jet, killing 329 innocent souls, over the North Atlantic in 1985. And they narrowly failed to bring down a second airliner, which instead exploded on the tarmac at Tokyo's main airport, killing two baggage handlers. Atwal himself tried his very best a year later to murder a high official of the Indian government on Canadian soil. He failed only because his target, Malkiat Singh Sidhu, managed to feign death, despite the two bullets Atwal and his confederates had already fired into his body. (Five years later, other Sikh extremists finished the job for Atwal, murdering Sidhu near his home in Moga). In any case, in their day, Atwal and his ideological colleagues were in the same league as, and in fact even more deadly than other far more famous groups: the Baader-Meinhof gang, the Shining Path, Black September, the IRA, the Red Army Faction. Certainly, they were a far more lethal threat than the disturbed homeless man who shot a reserve soldier in the name of Allah in Ottawa nearly four years ago, and was subsequently shot dead himself in the Parliament buildings, providing hawks with justification for a controversial new anti-terrorist law. Sikh extremists were a closed, fanatical bunch, and virtually impossible to penetrate, as Canada's nascent intelligence service learned. They were CSIS's first and greatest failure; Canada's international shame, a former CSIS chieftain called them. And yet there was Atwal, posing with a beaming Sophie Grégoire Trudeau, at a Canadian diplomatic reception in India last month, having boarded a plane and flown to India a few days earlier. Sophie Trudeau and Jaspal Atwal pictured at a film industry influencers event with Indian film stars in Mumbai Feb. 20. (Name withheld by request) The explanation for the invitation is pretty obvious: Atwal, since his release from prison decades ago, has remained active in Sikh politics, and became prominent in the apparatus of the Liberal Party of Canada, which depends heavily on the Sikh vote. Atwal was in fact invited to the reception by a Sikh Liberal MP, and he has been posing for photos with Liberals, federal and provincial, for years. It is unlikely that any effort was made to vet Atwal's name with CSIS. His name is in the CSIS system, and would have been instantly flagged. But the explanation for his ability to get on a flight to India is far more interesting. In search of that answer, I spoke recently to four former Canadian intelligence officers from the era of the Sikh wars. All, as you'd expect, were disgusted at the photo of Atwal in India. Three of them once had roles overseeing Canada's no-fly list. The list, they say, is exceedingly short, at least compared to the American list. It is curated by Transport Canada, with input from CSIS and the RCMP, and it remains secret. In order to be placed on it, said one ex-spy, authorities have to make the case to a multi-departmental committee that the individual poses a threat to aviation — a bar one of the agents who participated in the committee meetings felt was far too high. Often, he said, CSIS would come away frustrated in its efforts to have an individual placed on the list. And especially since 9/11, the focus of the list, and of our intelligence agencies, has been just about exclusively on Islamic jihadists. Its greatest recent growth has been fed by names of Canadians who have flown off to fight in Syria. Canada's spies are bound tightly to their American counterparts, and respond to American priorities, and, says one of the ex-agents I spoke to, the Americans never really cared about Sikh extremists. As far as they were concerned, the Sikhs were just killing each other, which was fine with them. (It should be noted here that of the 329 killed in the Air India bombing, the vast majority carried Canadian passports. None was an American citizen). All four of the former intelligence officers I spoke with reckoned that Atwal cannot possibly be on the American no-fly list either, because Canadian carriers are extremely skittish about boarding anyone on that list, even on a flight not flying into American airspace. OPINION: Sikh activism in Canada is not the Khalistani extremism of decades past Man convicted of attempted murder says he bowed out of event in India to save Trudeau embarrassment Let's go beyond Atwal, though. Here is another excellent question: What about Inderjit Singh Reyat, who served time in prison for actually building the bomb that brought down Air India Flight 182 in 1985, and who is now free on parole? Is he on our no-fly list? Or Ajaib Singh Bagri? Or Ripudaman Singh Malik? Both those men were early, prominent members of Babbar Khalsa, the group that hatched the airliner bombings, and while they were acquitted in court of conspiracy and murder, any ISIS- or al-Qaeda-style jihadi with their credentials would likely never fly again. Are they on the Canadian list? It is worth considering that Sikh extremist groups – Babbar Khalsa, or the International Sikh Youth Federation, to which Atwal belonged – have more in common with the IRA, or the FLQ in Quebec, than with, say, ISIS. Like the IRA, the Sikh groups are not regarded as terrorists, and indeed warmly regarded, in certain sectors of their diasporas. The IRA enjoyed considerable fundraising and popularity in cities like Boston and Montreal back in the days when it was carrying out bombings of British targets, and the portrait of Talwinder Singh Parmar, the founder of Babbar Khalsa and mastermind of the Air India bombing, still hangs in Sikh religious centres in British Columbia. Paul Rose, the leader of the FLQ cell that kidnapped and strangled Quebec cabinet minister Pierre Laporte in 1970, entered politics after his release from prison and was even a nominated candidate for the New Democratic Party of Quebec in 1992. Quebecers took a much more sympathetic view of him than English Canadians. Atwal is sort of a Sikh version of Paul Rose. But even if he evaded placement on the no-fly list, and wangled an invitation to a prime ministerial event, there is one more puzzling question about his visit to India: Why would the Indian government have let him in? The Indians despise Sikh separatists, and agents of the RAW, India's intelligence agency, have been caught repeatedly operating against Sikhs on Canadian soil (If you can't deal with these bastards, we will, RAW reportedly once told CSIS). All of the ex-agents I spoke to had the same theory: Atwal, they assume, had elected to cooperate with Indian intelligence. That, and a decision by the current Indian government to pursue some sort of rapprochement with the Sikh diaspora – the Khalistani separatist movement in Canada is now all but moribund – would explain his ease in obtaining an Indian visa. Lucky fellow, our Mr. Atwal. Time has passed, and memories have faded. Perhaps the men currently sitting in cages in Guantanamo Bay have some hope after all. But perhaps, just out of an abundance of caution, it would be better to keep them off airplanes.
  2. NDP leader Jagmeet Singh- political assessment Here is mine, please share yours 1. Political trap was set by influenced by ujjal dosanjh, tarak fatah -(his daughter -works for cbc close with terry) terry meliswky to cbc terry meliwski to get questioning on Oct for jagmeet singh, very first interview- 126 k views- He failed miserably on his first day. It was fair line of questioning tbh despite of the backdrop influence as he is "NDP LEADER" and his past sikh activisim- canadians ought to know. He took the bait screwed up- it wasn't catch 22 suitation either. He should have said based on the inquiry and canadian judicial system - i condemn posters, and presented facts hardly any gurdwara has his poster along with that in the same breath he could have mentioned 1984 sikh genocide with saying- Hey terry since you asking me about this based on my past activism, i planned to have motion in future for 1984 sikh genocide, that would have burned their tragedy and blew up with plan on their face. Turned tricky interview into rightful condemnation and pro sikh stance- 1984 sikh genocide. Instead this is bad optics all around. To be fair -terry in this interview whilst having bit of condescending tone was fair asking him those questions at the end due to past singhs activism history, if that question was addressed to bains, harjit sajjan. I would have said it would have been racist but knowning singh activism in the past it was fair line of questioning which jagmeet singh himself admits last week-fair questions 2. Recent statements and video interview by jagmeet singh were spot on. I just really wished he would have done that sooner in the first interview and not fallen to the trap. 3. He has to be impartial as he representing all canadians not just sikhs. i am hoping he comes with more serious condemnation comes up with pr un harmful statement like- Fanaticism is global problem, no religion or groups are immune to it. I condemn all of them. If he doesn't media will go on witch haunt against him goin on and on. Conservative media will play with swing voters (liberal and ndp) underlining fears. If his plan is to grab swing voters from liberal back into ndp he has to do better job. I would advise him to get more swing votes from conservatives than liberals 4. He is yet to come up with actual framework platform of ndp for next election, so he should concentrate on that rather than too much on 1984 sikh genocide at this time, correct timing would be later this year when genocide occured in india where liberals will be compelled also to vote that motion as it may swing voters at this time liberals communication -gerald butts want nothing to do with more sikh controversy due to absolute pr/bad optics failed trip in india. Prior to that he should introduce another motion in june to honor victims of AIR INDIA BOMBING -worst canadian terrorist incident in canadian history- where 325 innocent lives were killed including 92 sikhs on that plane and condemn parmar more and more and more. 5. He needs to keep draw parallelism of sikh genocide with first nation genocide. People will understand more. 6. He needs to captalize idea of sikh seperatism with quebec seperatism, he will gain votes in quebec which he has already done. 7. Stop hanging around too much with jus reign, gangster videos. 8. Absolutely capitalize on sikh parade idea in khalsa parade, nagar kirtan should give him limitless time for path of peace and reconciliation message (with back drop malcom x-sant bhindranwale-che guevera picture) he genuinely beleives in peace between hindu and sikhs-bring hindu ndp supporters with him thats the only he can neutralize the bad pr disaster he is recovering. THIS IS GOLDEN CHANCE FOR JAGMEET SINGH TO COUNTER MOVE AGAINST GOI PLAN TO DIVIDE POLARIZE HINDU VOTES and minority INTO CONSERVATIVES. 9. His focus should be gaining hindu votes, jewish votes, not just dividing sikh votes from liberal. He needs to show his representing all canadians and minorities. He should totally endorse tamils, jewish, as they have been through same genocide as us. Endorse conservatives motion of israel as state. 10. He could never a PM in this country after massive misteps in political world-optics/perception is everything there is no recovery from this, faster he realize this harsh truth -better it is for him. In the back of his head-he should aim for offical ndp opposition in house of commons and not to sway votes from liberals but conservatives. At the end, sikhs have choice 10 sikh mps and -5 high sikh positions ministers - including harjit sajjan sikh defense minister of canada with trudeau with balleh balleh picture below or him. Be realistic - just get him in house of commons as opposition in by election dont vote for him at the election day at the expense of liberals loosing big time and conservatives winning majority.
  3. In absolute world -everything is fine and dandy and relative world, sometimes people need jolt. I love my village in punjab so not anti village-especially gurbani hymns during amrit vela and dhud wali cha and poranthai. so i apologize- but it abhoring hard work done by media savvvy sikhs and sikhs mps gets ruined by these idiots.
  4. Another angle besides the obvious violence is never okay to settle non violent disputes: Psychologically speaking - fear based approach may work short term but hardly works in long run- history is witness take a look at the state of muslims and islam. Its good to learn from your mistakes but its even wiser to learn from other people mistakes. - Almost assassinated leader/preacher/journalist, gains more credibility /victim in masses /public opinion than academia rebuttal /massive sikhi parchar/ ignored/ troll one*, again history is witness whether is ujjal dosanjh (look at his influence in media), tara singh hayer- journalist-before he was fuddu writer in des pardes when he was alive than he is revered matryr in journalist world , ranjit singh dhandrianwale before he was sant wanna be now after assignation attempt got huge following, and example op shared. this is great thread by op and great article provided by op- https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnrampton/2015/04/09/10-tips-to-dealing-with-trolls/#52598ad454f4 - Even in elections world wide, no political opponent will use violence or force against political oppopent to sway public opnion as its counter intuitive, they will use other tactics- media, social media - recent huge news of shady manipulation by cambridge analytica of tapping and exploiting deep underlining fears of swing voters. So wake up from village mentality.
  5. Sunny Hundal (brother of late great gursikh bhai jagraj singh ji) is doing better job than you these days, he tacking cdn media with whole current cdn sikh extremism narrative and is united with all sikhs-one voice against current onslaught conservative media with goi back drop influence and whilst you prefer keep fighting with fellow sikhs. Come on dude, we can settle our old scores when we were both retired on park bench in bc while our grand kids play in the park, time to become one voice now. GOI trying to crave out divided another sikh body in canada besides wso to push their chapli water down version of sikhi and khalsa, and lets not let them and play into their hands.
  6. I was anticipating this argument, glad you bought it up.. here is good research thread on this. Whilst it maintains authenticity of this important historical event- it explores and provides much needed context to it for example- monarch times vs current democratic times where church and state are seperate and currently there are laws to deal with this- http://www.sikhawareness.com/topic/16506-masand-story-is-been-used-as-precedence-for-panthic-policiing/
  7. First of all, using violence to settle non violent dispute is never okay not allowed, there is no historical sikh precedence for it- no maryada for it, Contary to gurmat and gurbani teaching. Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji bachan- If all means have failed, its righteous to pick up sword.- Get ready for war This is no where to seen or should be used as political weapon or gain or ego mechanism, self centrist ideology gain, factions infighting. It could be only used for higher purpose of saving humanity when whole dharam is in threat thats a calling from all panj pyares and jathedars from takths - signed- its declaration of dharam yudh morcha or this can be also used on individual sikh basis as sikh is given full sovereignty by Guru- individual sikh life situations where his/her life is threatened-self defense and to save other lives. Regarding pity sad state of affairs within sikh community where sikhs fighting against each other, CIA puts it perfectably: http://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/jaspal-atwal-1.4563222 Canada's spies are bound tightly to their American counterparts, and respond to American priorities, and, says one of the ex-agents I spoke to, the Americans never really cared about Sikh extremists. As far as they were concerned, the Sikhs were just killing each other, which was fine with them.
  8. I never said vedas were satguru, read the analysis if vedas were so worthless, sant ji wouldn't have done comparison- mahavaks from vedas comparison with gurbani mahavaks comparison to show Gurbani has more mahavaks than vedas which has only four. Nevertheless, if sikhs abides in our countless gurbani mahavaks and hindus abides in any of four mahavaks it provides union between atma and paratma by kirpa of shared Sat Guru of all - All pervading eternal consciousness/ awareness. Also based on those mahavaks and 4000 gyan surti shaloks- expansive commentary -exegesis 108 upanishads were written which talks about turiya avastha. Sikhs or any group claiming ownership of turiya is like claiming ownership of consciousness which is in everyone, air, water, fire, earth and sky. You should get rid of your manmat ways.
  9. I would say bhagvad gita would be their main scriptures besides vedas, upanisads and vedant.
  10. Great shabad, i came across with this shabad in the article i read few years ago http://www.gurbani.org/articles/webart87.htm Puratan indic text tat nichor of vedas-and commentary- Vedant, whole range of upanishads all mention turiya also chidda akash by grace of sanjha eternal satguru of all/all prevading all in one, one in all - Sat Primordial/Eternal) Guru(Consciousness). Turiya is not owned by anyone - its state of being - its substratum reality of all.
  11. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nondualism
  12. Not in a true sense because backdrop you doing" free will IS also per-determined, look at the 3 minute science video and one before. To get us out of illusion there is separate-ego out there, its maharaj leela-play only maharaj truly knows the play, one can be with current-divine force by living in present moment-eternally NOW will-play and understand it after realizing their real self.
  13. According to my understanding, ape beej ape khao bachan is matter of doer ship, if you do the actions with doership*/indentity/ego then cycle of karma ensues then you will get fruit based on those actions. But if you allow actions spontaneously coming directly from consciousness then its direct expression of that consciousness-vahiguru- everything is expression of divine. Sukhmani sahib talks about this over and over again - how vahiguru is doing everything, enjoying, expressing itself. There is only one and there is no one besides one. Regarding- Akhan jor gurbani vak- it alludes to the point there is no free will everything is per-odained- you can will what you want but you cannot will what you will which means backdrop of everything is pre-determined*. Doership* Ang-278 ਜਬ ਇਹ ਜਾਨੈ ਮੈ ਕਿਛੁ ਕਰਤਾ ॥ जब इह जानै मै किछु करता ॥ Jab ih jānai mai kicẖẖ karṯā. As long as this mortal thinks that he is the one who does things, ਤਬ ਲਗੁ ਗਰਭ ਜੋਨਿ ਮਹਿ ਫਿਰਤਾ ॥ तब लगु गरभ जोनि महि फिरता ॥ Ŧab lag garabẖ jon mėh firṯā. he shall wander in reincarnation through the womb. *Pre-determined https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqLDWyk1uLQ Science experiment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQ4nwTTmcgs
  14. Detailed analysis given in the screenshots, if it resonates with you great if it doesn't thats great too. http://www.sikhawareness.com/topic/10748-a-requested-clarification-about-gurmat/
  15. This is good research thread: http://www.sikhawareness.com/topic/18757-yoga-in-suraj-granth-prakash/
  16. Mandukya Upanishad. Turiya is discussed in Verse 7 of the Mandukya Upanishad; however, the idea is found in the oldest Upanishads. For example, Chapters 8.7 through 8.12 of Chandogya Upanishad discuss the "four states of consciousness" as awake, dream-filled sleep, deep sleep, and beyond deep sleep.
  17. This topic is already been discussed until cows traveled all over the earth and back check the search archives..lol. I won't say much as my brain hurts having to explain and deconstructing like i've done in the past. Just don't have that energy now. But here is the video of sant hari singh ji randhawale just like his predecessors-sant gyani gurbachan singh bhindranwale holding the gurmat position on vedas. It's explain vedas have karam, upasana, gyan. There are 80,000 useless shaloks of Karam listed there, Upasana listed there but at the end it talks about gyan- ekta of jiv and bhram (atma gyan), it has 4000 shaloks of atma gyan which is pretty consistent with gurmat advait. Those 4000 shaloks are in vedas further commentary of those shaloks in upanishads and vedant Here is gurmat position anyalsis on vedas by sant gyani gurbachan singh bhindranwale from japji sahib teeka
  18. Yet another jagmeet singh nit picking wedding thread, can we please play this type of golli dandi game when we were in little bit comfortable position politically, in media, last time i've checked GOI tried to <banned word filter activated> sabotage canadians sikhs relations with liberal party and no doubt indirectly attacked ndp leader-jagmeet singh in the recent fiasco and very well influence canadian elections in 2019 by driving hindu and vast indo canadian votes to conservatives and create a fear and parnioa among white masses how liberals pandering are hurting bigger INDIA-CANADA relations. There are currently whopping 135 articles in canadian press against phantom sikh extremism in canada in one week span. Here is the list. Even sunny hundal is working around clock to refute some of them. https://www.facebook.com/notes/gurjiwan-singh/canadian-media-and-sikh-extremism-february-2018/10155547313673924/ Wake up!
  19. Let me try to deconstruct whats happening, again its nothing but self inflicted wound which could have been avoided, its about time sikh mp who invited him took the blame- which he did wholeheartedly instead of passing the buck. Yeah No, he is equally responsible along with rcmp and csis for canadian gov't mockery infront of canadian and indian media and international stage and sabotaging new relationship with india which other five sikhs mps and prime minister tried so hard to change the narrative. 1. This individual - atwal is been in photo-ops with other liberal mps too in the past, he has been lurking around. He was sikh convicted attempted murder that should have been raised many eye brows within liberal caucas and sikhs liberal. Sikhs and others within liberal party have no problem hanging around this guy due to money/lobbying this create a loose end an loophole for GOI to exploit who issued visa few months ago and india media to exploit which they did very very successfully. Our incompetent CSIS and RCMP who couldn't weed this guy out. I don't know what CSIS and RCMP do all day instead of being incompetent can't find GOI influence issuing visa, screwing up billion dollar trade deal with india and start a new chapter. 2. This changes everything in terms of public opinion, fair trade deal with india as this incident is optics nightmare, now india has upper hand, deal will be on their terms- which means bad deal, more witch haunt on sikhs by media-conservatives will be pounding liberals and warm relationship will be issue in the election. Thanks to our sikh mp-randeep sarai, other liberal mps, incompetent csis, rcmp. 3. Off course, politicians attending parade and gurdwara where talvinder parmar poster- another sikh terrorist/mass murderer (declared by canadian supreme court judge-who in the same breath acquitted bagri and malik)/goi agent (as shown in soft target) is bought up as it should, its about time record is set straight by liberal party including sikhs mps with one position they do condemn the poster of parmar, this means few things in future- gov't may cut funding/subsidies to gurdwara who has poster of parmar and also no gov't offical will be going to parade where his poster is displayed. Good on them, its about time someone stood up against whole sikh image gets hijacked by some arbitrary questionable person poster and by his tribal followers, they definitely don't speak for me, world sikh organization of canada nor sikh liberal mps-liberal party of canada, canadian gov't.. Off course everyone has a right to freedom of expression. But if you are expecting gov't funding or expecting sikh liberal mps to come to you you can no longer complain if things are not met due to your position on parmar poster. 4. It be interesting how things unfold in vaishakhi parade, i like to see harjit sajjan - respected by all sikhs, wider Canadians to be fore front as liason mp between canadian gov't and sikh gurdwaras committee members to think outside of box and see bigger picture.
  20. Yes to be precise pdf page- 33 Bijla Singh and Sant Hari Singh ji arths are spot on, ultimately we should be looking at antriv arths of gurbani as to how it relates to introvert nature of individual and helps seeker transcedent from sargun into nirgun* and bigger grand scheme of things (non duality- all pervasive ) but NOT at the expense of sacrificing sargun arths or rejecting them in paranoia since sikhi is both sargun and nirgun combined and blended beautifully so one is in complete harmony-sargun is nirgun, nirgun is sargun - emptiness is form, form is emptiness. Often times, we see many sikhs falling on gyan-nirgun arths or sargun-spectrum-ignoring one or another. As per gurmat sidhant thats not the right approach. It needs to be looked at together from gurmat sidhant conceptual philosophy standpoint. *Note i did by maharaj kirpa did similiar antriv arths of different gurbani pankiti: ਧਨਿ ਧਨਿ ਤੂ ਮਾਤਾ ਦੇਵਕੀ ॥ Blessed, blessed are you, O mother Dayvakee; ਜਿਹ ਗ੍ਰਿਹ ਰਮਈਆ ਕਵਲਾਪਤੀ ॥੨॥ into your home the Lord was born. ||2|| Blessed blessed mother devki (dwelling place -five elemental- body, mind) in its home- surat ( consciousness/awareness) has awaken to itself, came to being. Uthanka arth is dedicated to krishan maharaj sargun saroop.
  21. 1. From Sargun Perspective- Primordial Satguru (Sat Chit- Eternal all pervading Awareness- Nanak- Pure Awareness/Vahiguru in previous yugas-immanent its various attributes(out of infinite) into various kala avtars -highest being in previous yugas-Krishna and highest sargun avtar in kalyug- Sargun Satguru nanak. In the japji sahib teeka six types of avtars -ansa, aveshya, kala, nit, namit, poran avtar ram.-14 and 16 being krishan are mentioned along with sarab kala barpoor- satguru nanak being avtar of parbhram. Gurbani talks about avtar of vahiguroo in each age to propagate and uphold dharma Jab Jab Hoth Aristh Apara Tab Tab Deh Dharat Avtara. (Sri Dasam Granth) Jug Jug Satgur Dhare Avtari (Bhai Gurdas Ji) Sathajug Thai Maaniou Shhaliou Bal Baavan Bhaaeiou || In the Golden Age of Sat Yuga, You were pleased to deceive Baal the king, in the form of a dwarf. thraethai thai maaniou raam raghuvans kehaaeiou || In the Silver Age of Traytaa Yuga, You were called Raam of the Raghu dynasty. dhuaapur kirasan muraar kans kirathaarathh keeou || In the Brass Age of Dwaapur Yuga, You were Krishna; You killed Mur the demon and saved Kans. ougrasain ko raaj abhai bhagatheh jan dheeou || You blessed Ugrasain with a kingdom, and You blessed Your humble devotees with fearlessness. kalijug pramaan naanak gur angadh amar kehaaeiou || In the Iron Age, the Dark Age of Kali Yuga, You are known and accepted as Guru Nanak, Guru Angad and Guru Amar Das. sree guroo raaj abichal attal aadh purakh furamaaeiou ||7|| The sovereign rule of the Great Guru is unchanging and permanent, according the Command of the Primal Lord God. ||7|| 2. There are many examples in gurbani. ਚਰਨ ਬਧਿਕ ਜਨ ਤੇਊ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਭਏ ॥ चरन बधिक जन तेऊ मुकति भए ॥ Cẖaran baḏẖik jan ṯe▫ū mukaṯ bẖa▫e. The hunter who shot Krishna in the foot - even he was liberated. ਹਉ ਬਲਿ ਬਲਿ ਜਿਨ ਰਾਮ ਕਹੇ ॥੧॥ हउ बलि बलि जिन राम कहे ॥१॥ Ha▫o bal bal jin rām kahe. ||1|| I am a sacrifice, a sacrifice to those who chant the Lord's Name. ||1|| ਨਿਰਾਹਾਰੀ ਨਿਰਵੈਰੁ ਸਮਾਇਆ ॥ निराहारी निरवैरु समाइआ ॥ He is beyond need of any sustenance, free of hate and all-pervading. ਧਾਰਿ ਖੇਲੁ ਚਤੁਰਭੁਜੁ ਕਹਾਇਆ ॥ धारि खेलु चतुरभुजु कहाइआ ॥ He has staged His play; He is called the four-armed Lord. ਸਾਵਲ ਸੁੰਦਰ ਰੂਪ ਬਣਾਵਹਿ ਬੇਣੁ ਸੁਨਤ ਸਭ ਮੋਹੈਗਾ ॥੯॥ सावल सुंदर रूप बणावहि बेणु सुनत सभ मोहैगा ॥९॥ He assumed the beautiful form of the blue-skinned Krishna; hearing His flute, all are fascinated and enticed. ||9|| ਬਨਮਾਲਾ ਬਿਭੂਖਨ ਕਮਲ ਨੈਨ ॥ बनमाला बिभूखन कमल नैन ॥ He is adorned with garlands of flowers, with lotus eyes. ਸੁੰਦਰ ਕੁੰਡਲ ਮੁਕਟ ਬੈਨ ॥ सुंदर कुंडल मुकट बैन ॥ His ear-rings, crown and flute are so beautiful. ਸੰਖ ਚਕ੍ਰ ਗਦਾ ਹੈ ਧਾਰੀ ਮਹਾ ਸਾਰਥੀ ਸਤਸੰਗਾ ॥੧੦॥ संख चक्र गदा है धारी महा सारथी सतसंगा ॥१०॥ He carries the conch, the chakra and the war club; He is the Great Charioteer, who stays with His Saints. ||10|| 3. From Nirgun, non duality-advait perspective- Off course previous avtars were rejected-called worms, were subjected to kaal because of five element transient nature, this has to be looked at from same point of view -a) rejection of sargun avtars as they are part of 5 elemental play- so one can transcendent in their spirituality-spiritual development from sargun into nirgun worship (personal to impersonal worship of god). Sri Guru gobind singh ji himself also told his followers- jae ham ko paramaesar ouchar hai | thae sabh narak kundd mehi par hai | Those who call me God, will fall into the pit of hell. This vaak of maharaj should be seen as scolding of our father, cannot be taken literally. However overall message behind this vaak of this maharaj should be taken seriously. What Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji is saying- don't be attached to my transient (shud bhram sargun) saroop-personal god saroop subjected to 5 elemental play, don't confine me in transient shud sargun saroop. Realize- your and my real saroop which is Nirgun saroop via bhagti, shabad dhun, shabad gian- bhramgyan. Sikhi upholds Absolute truth all the time but while upholding Absolute truth it also praises relative realities as well- for example- vahiguru ji avtar of narsingh we read every day in asa di vaaar- rehras sahib- Vahiguru saved bhagat parlhad ji in Narsingh form: Har Jug Jug Bhagat Upaaiya, Paij Rakhda Aaaiya Ram Rajai Harnakash Dusth Har Maaraya Parhlad Taariaya Ahankarye Nindakha Pitta Daie, Namdev Mukh Laaiya Jan Nanak Aisae Har Seevaaiya, Ant Leh chadaya || Gurmat is bhagti-relative-sargun / gyan-nirgun- absolute blended beautifully- somacha vaad (combined/blended) One of vedic scholar also provides commentary and contextualization on rejection of avtars in sri dasam granth sahib: Attachment- Six types of avtar and Satguru nanak being highest of all-avtar of bhram.
  22. Really insightful reply guys. Thanks I think so too if there is a break in death cycle. How would it work though? Once body of animal is dead, how science is able to clone and revitalize it and make it animate again? Or cloning occurs while animal is at the peak of being dead at the border line of passing away? I think mostly cloning is done after taking dna of dead and manipulating rakht birej process?
  23. I've always wondered whats sikhi position on cloning animals and eventually humans? https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/photos/cloned-animals-dogs-cats-sheep-15300838/image-15301105 I would think its neither for or against it but i may be wrong. Please post your thoughts.
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