kharaghsingh

I have found that the English Defence League are tomorrow going to the Dudley area of the West Midlands to protest against a Mosque that is going to be built. I thought the EDL were people with some extreme views and always try to cause trouble wherever go, but after looking into the matter about why they going Dudley the day before Easter Sunday, I now think that maybe they are doing the right thing fighting for their rights and those of others. The government does try to encourage and help ethnic minorities, which is a positive, but question is: Are the muslims an ethnic 'minority'? If the muslims can be classed as an ethnic minority then, who is not an ethnic minority? because there is so many of these muslims, and actually they shouldn't qualify as an ethnic minority, simply because they are not a minority. This is not being racist, what i am saying is true. And i read somewhere on the web that in the next 10 years it will be islam country. Is this what we want? We might aswell move to Pakistan now then. Buddhists, Christians, Hindus, Jainism, Sikhism, ever heard of any followers of these faiths terrorising others who do not fit in? No. Ever heard any of the followers of these faiths blowing up places, planes, trains, people? No. Why? Because they respect their faith and the rights of others to follow their own beliefs. They are peaceful religions and peaceful people. But talk about these Muslims, have you ever heard of a muslim doing anything positive for the country? No. I would not like to use the word Muslims to identify these people but they declare them selves a muslims so that is why i using it, i m not targeting the muslim religion. Problem is the majority of these people call themselves muslims, but the true religion of islam was become extinct many many many years ago. These people which i refer to as muslims are terrorists. So going back to the mosque issue, The edl will be protesting against an £18 million mosque in Dudley. What can be done to stop the UK from becoming a Muslim country? Would the Muslims let Buddhists, Christians, Hindus, Jainism, Sikhs open there religious places as many as they want in a Muslim country freely????? No i thought not. If Islam is a peace keeping religion then why they not think before about the protests and the resistance that would happen because of their mosque. If it was not for this mosque then the edl would not have to go to dudley and none of the traders or shopkeepers would have to lose out and the local people would be safe and would not need to feel intimidated. Also, the local people do not want a mosque there so the muslims are forcefully opening one. Which is what a peaceful religion does is it? Why need £18million to open a place of worship? Where are the muslims getting this money from? If they have £18 milllion free just lieing around and it is their money which they have saved as a community and not asked for fund from gorvernment then if they want to spend it on a religious cause, why not provide it to charities or some other worthwhile cause? Why open a mosque which is going to cause all this tension and trouble, which is not wanted by the local people, they've got enough of them anyway, and it's something which everyone has rejected. Why? Because this is what islam teaches them, this is the definition of peace they have. Surely, we as Sikhs too have a duty to protect the communities we live in, should we be out protesting tomorrow to help support the edl in tomorrow's protest? Second question is: Where has the £18million come from? Can it possibly be that muslims have collected this money themselves ie savings because not many of these muslims work nearly all of them are claiming benefits from the government. If it is tax payer's money then this has to be stopped, it is not fair if the people who pay the tax's views arent listened to because that is who's money they are using for this. All opinions and comments more than welcome. No offence to any faiths or any individuals, just state what is true. Bhul chukk muaaf http://www.birmingha...97319-26151146/

I dont think it's paranoia. Our Gurus faught these extremists/muslims/call them whatever you want to in battle and won, it is not paranoia it is thinking about what is right, and this muslim population is getting out of control. Sikhi is like what 500 years old, these Muslims have always commited crimes on humanity and anyone who does not follow Islam, our history shows this, even to this day they go around terrorising people and blowing up things/places, beheading Sikhs. This is all the info we need, we do not needs names of the individuals because then we would have a very long list maybe even endless because in this world there are not any/many of them that actually follow their faith for a religious reason, this is why they are all terrorists or in some way shape or form support terrorists, if none believers who they call kaffirs pay the ransom then they will spend it on illegal stuff like bombs to go blow up somewhere else, and if we asked for ransom from people who were not Sikhs, in this country that would be classed as being racist. This is just common sense, but it’s something that these extremists lack. I think it is right that this topic has been raised and is being discussed because it will raise awareness, before i read this topic, i had not even thinked of it much, we are hardworking people, we work and pay tax for those that need it, but the majority of the population are these extremists and we pay the tax and we pay it for them? No way, this has to be stopped asap. Guruvah said “some of the things that have been said are true to a certain extent. But, I think you are purely driven by you dislike for muslims.” Yes ok, we/i/some of us but not all of us (-i can only speak for myself) may dislike them and may base our decisions purely on this factor, but you seem to think otherwise, ok maybe i’m missing something here, tell me so what is it that they have done for this country or for any country? Or have they ever done anything positive? And it’s not like they’re learning from their mistakes either, they carry on doing it, even to this day and they seem to have no remorse about it. But then we’re supposed to say not all muslims are terrorists, i find that hard to do. Yes there were some real Muslims in the times of our Gurus like for example: Mian Mir, but now there are no true ones left. And yes i agree completely with what has been stated here: “Many may not be terrorist, but many deep down millions support these terrorist , because they see them as defenders of Islam. Moderates have never had a voice in Islam(where were they?, when Aurangzeb was on the loose?). Neither have they ever had the guts to stand up again ts the radicals.(cause they will be seen as UNislamic)” And about the Babber sher comment, what is dumb about my comment? Is it about the figures i stated for the muslim population, apoplogies but there’s too much of them to count so maybe i lost track somewhere, if you can correct the figures and tell me what you total i would be grateful. I think maybe we also need to raise more awareness to those that cannot tell the difference between muslims and Sikhs because they think we’re all the same, may be we need to start educating others that we know that think like this.

I agree with the original poster wakeupUK. I think he has a valid point. Most of the Muslims in the UK are either terrorists or support them in one way or another we shouldnt have to provide evidence for that because we've all seen what's been happening around the world by these terrorists, and unless we agree with the stuff that's been happening or if we are supporting them too then we should not have to back all of our points with a fact to discuss this issue. We are called racist for calling them extremists and for saying most muslims are terrorists, but it is ok for them to go blow up a plane or train? This does not seem fair. I do not think anyone here thinks it is okay to blow up a train or plane or do anything of the sort, but if we are being asked for proof, then that means there is an element of weakness in our points, or should i say the reader thinks there is an element of weakness and the argument is not strong enough for them. I would say if someone even doubts 1% that most muslims are not terrorists or ar not supporting the terrorists in some way then they have some serious issues. And yes, most of their community is not peaceful because if they were we wouldnt have all bombings etc. so it is a good idea to stop them from migrating to the UK. But i did hear the migration process has gone tougher now than before but i not to really sure if that is only from people coming from india, or from other countries. Just out of interest does anyone know how many muslims there are in this country? Like the latest figure or something, i've seen the figures starting from 3 million in the uk and some figures say 600,000 in london alone.

The reason i ask is because is it not our duty to make the community aware of these people? I did not know that Dr Gurdip Singh Jagbir (Punjab Radio) was on the list until last week sometime (i not sure exactly if 24th or 25th) i heard him talking to Darshan Ragi Live conversation, it was morning time. In the conversation he mentioned to Darshan Ragi that he wishes to be removed from the list which he said was on Darshan Ragi's website. So, i was thinking if there is a 'list' of people who are on it then there must be others on there too which everyone should know about. Someone seems to have made this list and Darshan Ragi has put this online. I am not disrespecting anyone; I fully respect Siri Guru Dasam Granth Sahib Ji, Varaan Bhai Gurdas Ji, Bhai Nand Lal Ji and many other relevant scriptures relating to the Sikh Faith. I am just curious that if such a list exists then we ought to know who's named on there. I have also heard this list is in newspapers but i do not know which ones in/their names, if any one knows then please let me know. It is also on Darshan Ragi's website (which i am unable to find at this moment in time, although i have tried googling it but no success). My source of information about there actually being a 'list' with names of people on it who are members of the RSS also, is Punjaab Radio, that is where i heard the conversation about this list. Any help would be really appreciated. Regards KS

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, waheguru Ji ki Fateh! I am doing some project work and i'm in a bit of a dilemma. I need to know who is a member of the Sikh Community and who also has a membership with the RSS. Does any one know of the latest list of R-S-S members who are from the Sikh Community in the UK. Website addresses for research are welcome. Also names of the people please. So far i have gathered the following info: Dr Gurdip Singh Jagbir (Punjab Radio -allegedley from the sikh community but also a member of the RSS), Many thanks. KS

Unfortunately, it does appear to be the case. We haven't had any real struggle for a long time, and that makes people go soft. There were many brave Singhs in the '80s but most of them were killed off over the years. Whether they are traders or not is immaterial. Guru Ji taught us to fight and die for our rights, not run away from bullies, which is what the Taliban are. What i would like to say is this, With good comes evil. Singhs are good and the Taliban is bad, good always wins over the bad therefore Singhs will win, in due course. There are brave Singhs around, but do you really think they are going to sit and discuss their tactics/kamai on an internet forum? No, they will/ are preparing and some even ready but they're not going to broadcast everything/their ideas to the world. Shahadath doesnt come without Abaadath. Naam simran/kamai first and everything will work out itself. They will know who they are. People like us just discuss on forums and hold meetings, a few weeks go by and everything goes back to normal again. I can understand what you're saying, but think in high spirits, martial race is in our bloods, we cant just go soft just like that. Have faith and that's half the job done, only the practical part left. My question is, what would happen if it was the other way round, what if Sikhs chopped off heads of muslims and dumped them in a mosque? What would the muslims do then?

Well may be the time is getting closer. One day the Khalsa will succeed in getting rid of the Taliban. The taliban has done enough bad deeds over the past years, but they have taken it a step too far, and that is to mess with Sikhs, it is one which they will regret, that's if they are still alive by then, and have not become extinct. Akkaall hee akaaaalll.

It may be a false site, i was not aware of that until you mentioned it, but the points made in the quote are good/valid. Unless you think otherwise? Then, you tell me what faults you can find in Sikhi? We should take on board any good/positive points and ignore the wrong ones. If an Atheist can think about Sikhi positively then that is a good thing. You seem to disagree with it so does that mean you think Sikhi has faults in it? Bhul chuk muaaf karni. KS

I finded this article from: http://sikhquotes.org/177.html and very inspiring,"Atheist's Views about Sikhism From: "Atheist Society" < atheist_society@hotmail.com > To: afreethinker@hotmail.com Subject: Dear Ali we have a problem, please help! Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 20:40:30 +0000 "Dear Ali, please help us. We were very impressed with your website and agreed that religion in general is no longer needed, we can all be humanistic and live in peace and harmony. We are in the process of making a website which will hopefully help to destroy the religious doctrines which divide humanity. We were doing great with knocking out Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Baha'i, even Buddhism but we have gotten very stuck with Sikhism. This religion is (to put it nicely) "a big pain in the <banned word filter activated>" (Please pardon the language) We have only found one site which tries (very poorly) to argue that even this religion is not needed, but the argument is irrational and very unscientific unlike the very rational arguments you use. When we read the following from your website, we found what you said to be amazingly interesting: "Doubt Everything Find Your Own Light." "Last Words Dear friend, if you look for meaning in life, don't look for it in religions; don't go from one cult to another or from one guru to the next. You can expend all your life or look for eternity and will find nothing but disappointment and disillusionment. Look instead in service to humanity. You will find "meaning" in your love for other human beings. You can experience God when you help someone who needs your help. The only truth that counts is the love that we have for each other. This is absolute and real. The rest is mirage, fancies of human imagination and fallacies of our own making." By Ali Sina Why is this interesting? Because we found this religion of Sikhism to be in agreement with you! This is why we have a problem. We tried to look at their holy text (Adi Granth) but didnt find the usual absurdities we found in the other religious books. In fact its refreshingly inspiring and very good!? Maybe you can have some better luck. We tried to visit a couple of websites and got more of a shock. Did you know that they believed in Democracy, freedom of speech, choice, expression, freedom of religion, pluralism, human rights, equality between men and women, equality of all people regardless of race, religion, caste, creed, status etc. 300 years before the existance of the USA! Theirs is the only religion which says in their religious scriptures that women are equal in every respect to men. They even had women soldiers leading armies in to battle against "you know who" (The usual suspects - Muslims!) Their history is a proud one, they fought in both World Wars. Even Hitler praised them for their bravery and Aryan heritage! Dear Ali, this religion is hard for us to try and criticise but you are an expert and may find some faults overlooked by us. In their holy book, there is a round earth, water is made from chemical elements, there is even mention of the evoution process, big bang and life on other planets! This is pretty crazy and amazing stuff, who would have thought that these New York taxi drivers (There are lots of Sikh taxi drivers in NY) would have such an amzing faith? We read up some information of what Bertrand Russell had to say about Sikhism, this is the man who destroyed Christianity (same applies to Islam and Judaism) and exposed its absurdities, but even this great man got stuck when it came to Sikhism! In fact he gave up and said "that if some lucky men survive the onslaught of the third world war of atomic and hydrogen bombs, then the Sikh religion will be the only means of guiding them. Russell was asked that he was talking about the third world war, but isn't this religion capable of guiding mankind before the third world war? In reply, Russell said, "Yes, it has the capability, but the Sikhs have not brought out in the broad daylight, the splendid doctrines of this religion which has come into existence for the benefit of the entire mankind. This is their greatest sin and the Sikhs cannot be freed of it." Please bear in mind that Bertrand Russell was a great philosopher and free thinker. We have been trying for weeks now to find a way to fairly and rationally criticize and find fault with this religion but have failed. We even found out that there are many people converting to this religion in the USA and Europe as well as Russia (Mostly well educated and affluent white people). We tried to find some of their literature and see what kind of claims they make, but unfortunatley they have no missionary material as they do not have missionsaries! People become Sikh by learning usually by chance or by coming in to contact with them. They are currently the 5th biggest religion in the world and growing quite fast in the west and Russia. Please help us as we are stuck, to give you an example of they are all about we found the following websites: http://www.sikhnet.com (This is a pretty good site and helpful) http://www.hope.at/sikhism (This site is very easy to follow, check it out, they have a Womans section and a Martyrs section, it looks like that you are not the only one trying to expose the falseness of Islam, Sikhs scholars did it hundreds of years ago and got killed for it!) http://www.sikhs.org (This is the site that was on CNN when Sikhs in the USA were mistaken for Arabs and Middle Easterners and were attacked by mindless morons) Please help us out, we cant make our website about religion being the cause of war and disharmony when we have this one and only religion which makes a hell of a lot of sense! lol (I thought Atheism had all the answers but were kind of stuck now.) We look forward to hearing from you, we respect your great views and want to promote them to everyone, thank you for your time, take care. Dr. John Smith " First time i come across this so thought i share with everyone.