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misl shaheedan

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Everything posted by misl shaheedan

  1. http://puratanjatha.blogspot.ca/2012/12/bhai-randhir-singh-jee-on-sri-dasam.html
  2. Ok, holy smokes that didnt turn out the way i wanted it to. Can anyone help? When i click on edit all the Gurmukhi shows up but on my computer screen all i see is random symbols and numbers. I copy pasted it from srigranth.org Fateh. I came across the following transalation from the teeka today and needed some help: ਪਰ ਤ੍ਰਿਅ ਰਾਵਣਿ ਜਾਹਿ ਸੇਈ ਤਾ ਲਾਜੀਅਹਿ ॥ They, who go to enjoy other man's women, they alone shall suffer shame. ਜੋ ਪਰ ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀਓਂ ਕੋ ਰਾਵਣੇ ਜਾਤੇ ਹੈਂ ਸੋਈ ਤੋ ਪ੍ਰਲੋਕ ਮੈਂ ਲਜਾਵਾਨ ਹੋਤੇ ਹੈਂ ਵਾ ਸੋਈ ਨਰਕੋਂ ਮੈਂ ਤਲੀਤੇ ਹੈਂ ਭਾਵ ਨਰਕੋਂ ਕੀ ਸਾਸਨਾ ਪਾਵਤੇ ਹੈਂ॥ ਯਥਾ-ਪੋਤਾਲੋ ਪਤਿ ਊਤਰੈ ਪਰਤ੍ਰਿਅ ਰਤਾ ਮਾਸ॥ ਥੰਮਾ ਨਾਲ ਲਗਾਈਅਹਿ ਕੋਇ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਪਾਸ॥ My question is specifically related to this: ਯਥਾ-ਪੋਤਾਲੋ ਪਤਿ ਊਤਰੈ ਪਰਤ੍ਰਿਅ ਰਤਾ ਮਾਸ॥ ਥੰਮਾ ਨਾਲ ਲਗਾਈਅਹਿ ਕੋਇ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਪਾਸ॥ First, what does ਯਥਾ mean and, secondly, are the words that follow from gurbani (ਪੋਤਾਲੋ ਪਤਿ ਊਤਰੈ ਪਰਤ੍ਰਿਅ...) because I couldnt find them anywhere on any gurbani search engine. If they're not from Gurbani where are they from? Thanks. Thanks for all your help.
  3. Fateh. I came across the following transalation from the teeka today and needed some help: ਪਰ ਤ੍ਰਿਅ ਰਾਵਣਿ ਜਾਹਿ ਸੇਈ ਤਾ ਲਾਜੀਅਹਿ ॥ They, who go to enjoy other man's women, they alone shall suffer shame. ਜੋ ਪਰ ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀਓਂ ਕੋ ਰਾਵਣੇ ਜਾਤੇ ਹੈਂ ਸੋਈ ਤੋ ਪ੍ਰਲੋਕ ਮੈਂ ਲਜਾਵਾਨ ਹੋਤੇ ਹੈਂ ਵਾ ਸੋਈ ਨਰਕੋਂ ਮੈਂ ਤਲੀਤੇ ਹੈਂ ਭਾਵ ਨਰਕੋਂ ਕੀ ਸਾਸਨਾ ਪਾਵਤੇ ਹੈਂ॥ ਯਥਾ-ਪੋਤਾਲੋ ਪਤਿ ਊਤਰੈ ਪਰਤ੍ਰਿਅ ਰਤਾ ਮਾਸ॥ ਥੰਮਾ ਨਾਲ ਲਗਾਈਅਹਿ ਕੋਇ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਪਾਸ॥ My question is specifically related to this: ਯਥਾ-ਪੋਤਾਲੋ ਪਤਿ ਊਤਰੈ ਪਰਤ੍ਰਿਅ ਰਤਾ ਮਾਸ॥ ਥੰਮਾ ਨਾਲ ਲਗਾਈਅਹਿ ਕੋਇ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਪਾਸ॥ First, what does ਯਥਾ mean and, secondly, are the words that follow from gurbani (ਪੋਤਾਲੋ ਪਤਿ ਊਤਰੈ ਪਰਤ੍ਰਿਅ...) because I couldnt find them anywhere on any gurbani search engine. If they're not from Gurbani where are they from? Thanks. Thanks for all your help.
  4. I find this argument to be a little troublesome. A very "western" approach to Sikh history is being taken. By that I mean you have exclusively relied on surviving documents to "prove" that the Budda Dal was not the Panjva Takhat. At the same time, you have shunned every bit of Seena Baseena Tradition within the Dal Panth. This is a very western approach to doing research - Western academics are notorious for relying exclusively on existing documents and then arriving at conclusions while rejecting the oral traditions of the group they are researching. This is troublesome because "writing things down" is largely a Western concept and for centuries non-white people around the world focused on orally transmitting history. When you ignore the seena baseena traditions of non-western groups and individuals and rely exclusively on "things that were written down" you inevitably arrive at half truths and fallacies A paragraph from a essay i recently read comes to mind: "Before an examination of the issue of Sikh identity can take place, it is important to first acknowledge the limitations of the historical, and specifically Western approach to studying the Sikh tradition. Noel Q. King holds the view that using methods of scholarship developed for Christianity and Judaism on other religions, is dangerous. This observation, of course, is very much linked to the debate of Orientalism: a western ethnocentrism that sees the norm as being the West and all other traditions are judged by those standards and considered mutations of the same. In the Sikh tradition, a major method of transmitting history and tradition is oral. This is not acceptable for scholars who would use the Western approach: a codified, written account is needed. A good example of this conflict can be seen in the examinations of the Rehitnama literature. Although rehit is considered to be a comprehensive guide to the Khalsa code of conduct, it was often written as a supplementary guide to the Rehit outlined by the initiating Punj Pyaaray in the Khanday kee Paahul ceremony. Desa Singh writes in the seventh stanza of his rehitnama, “that rehit which the five utter, keep that steadfast in your mind” and later in the ninth stanza writes “that is the first rehit, the one which the five Singhs said in the Paahul ceremony. The other different rehits which are spoken of, that is which I will go on to explain ”. Clearly the written rehit is secondary to the one which was orally elucidated by the Punj Pyaaray. Even to this day, many Sikh groups i.e. Akhand Kirtanee Jatha, keep the rehit and the gurmantra secret and a guard is posted at the doors of Paahul ceremonies to maintain secrecy. The rehit is passed down orally through generations or “seenaa-baseenaa” and the newly initiated are instructed to carefully listen and remember the rehit so that they too may pass it down. The modern day “Sikh Rehit Maryada” which was created in the first half of the twentieth century is in fact a western document which is formally codified in prose with sections and subsections and is not in any way a “traditional” Sikh document...Thus, attempting to analyse and understand the Sikh tradition with a west-centric view is difficult and prone to error...." So, in my opinion, our ancestors could very well have viewed the Budda Dal as the Panja Takhat and there could very well have been 4 other Takhats (Akal Takhat, Patna Sahib, Kesgarh Sahib, Hazur Sahib). Regarding the argument presented about how "according to written codified evidence" these places didnt refer to themselves as takhats...well imo that is irrelevent as even the Akal Takhat was referred to as the Akal Bunga in many cases, the absence of the word "Takhat" in this situation doesnt mean that it wasnt a Takhat. Pardon any mistakes I have made. Just trying to provide a prespective opposed to the one presented above. I am not arriving at conclusons. Personally, i myself am undecided on this issue surrounding the Budda Dal.
  5. www.scribd.com/doc/28563324/Complete-Sri-Sarbloh-Granth-Sahib-Ji-Steek Read the Steek here. What you are looking for is on page 65 of the steek.
  6. Thanks for the help everyone. Appreciate it!
  7. Fateh Can anyone recommend some katha on Japji Sahib? The kathas by Sant Jarnail Singh and Sant Gurbachan Singh (on gurmatveechar) have very poor audio quality and I can't make out what they're saying. This probably would have been the best katha to listen to but now i have to find an alternative
  8. Sacha Sauda Gurmat Parchar Society on Torbram and Steeles Also Gur Fateh Seva Centre at Gliddon Gurdvara (by the langar hall). I dont no if its still located here though
  9. Toronto Singhs Camp is now officially SOLD OUT!! But there's still hope if you want to come!!! Email us ASAP at torontosinghscamp@gmail.com to get on the wait list!! The sooner you get on it the better the chance a spot will open up for you.
  10. Less then 10 spots left. Register now at www.singhscamp.ca to avoid dissapointment
  11. The early bird price has been extended to this friday. Sign up! Spots are going fast!
  12. There is a book written by Ranbir SIngh Sandhu "Struggle for Justice - Speeches and Conversations of Sant Jarnail Singh Khalsa Bhinderanwale" Published By Sikh Educational and Religious Foundation, Ohio, USA, 1999 Its over 500 pages and has many of Sant Jis Speeches, etc translated into english I checked online and you can buy it at these places http://southasiabooks.com/struggle-for-justice-speeches-and-conversations-of-sant-jarnail-singh-khalsa-bhindranwale-p-65470.html http://www.amazon.com/Struggle-Justice-Speeches-Conversations-Bhindranwale/dp/0967287413
  13. Amritsar Taksal (First Mukhi Shaheed Bhai Mani Singh) Javadi Taksal ,,,
  14. Gulati tailers for bana. Especially Taksali cholas. In amrtisar close to the taksal shop.
  15. Anyone having trouble with Rehiras Sahib? When i click on it its just a repeat of the opening Har Jug Jug Bhagat Upaiya shabad over and over and over again.
  16. Support them fully. Tired of the rich exploiting the poor and the poor always getting the short end of the stick Lets break down this entire "degree" business Even if you are a smart kid, if you are poor and cant afford to spend 3+ years for a piece of paper you are considered nothing by society, will most likely work in factories, etc. Its your money that counts in this capitalist society not your brains. Thats y spoiled rich folks (not saying all rich kids are spoiled but u get wat im trying to say) always get to go to university and the middle/working class has to either take on massive debt or not go to university at all. This is much more visible in the US and Canada. Kids much less deserving will get these degrees and live more comfortable jobs because they could afford the piece of paper. To balance this out and give those unfortunate an equal chance at an education we have scholarships and reasonable tuition fees. Lately we see an attack on anything that can uplift the poor by the powers that be, whether that be social services or tuition fees. The reasoning behind this is that the corporations and governments want an exploitable population at their disposal at all times. If all had the opportunity for an education that would be detrimental for the capitalist system and corporations which thrive on exploitation of the poor. Sikhism is all for uplifting the poor and giving an equal chance to all to realize their full potential. One of the many examples of this is, for example, Guru Sahib ordering Banda Singh Bahadur to destroy the zamindaari system and stop the exploitation of the peasants of those days. , Guru Sahib Himself giving or having other Sikhs (Ex Bhai Kanaiya) give free education and medical assitance to anyone needing it, establishing Taksaals to give free education etc etc I will make a bold statement which might draw fire from some: Sikhism at its roots is an Anti-Capitalist and Anti-Consumerism religion. The philosophy preached by our Guru Sahib is proof of this. We are encouraged to not wear jewelery, live simply, be content with what we have, wear Bana, keep bibek, eat home cooked meals and out of Sarbloh, give 1/10th of our earnings to the Gurdwara or to the poor, etc etc. This is completely contradictory to the ideals of Capitalism and Consumerism which, if you have in depth studied this system in University, thrives off destruction and exploitation. Whether that exploitation takes place in your home country or in third world countries from which you cant hear the cries of the exploited is up to the Government in power. History has proven that peacefull protests have rarely accomplished anything. It is only violent expression that shakes the tyrants. According to me Education is a Human Right and raising these fees will deny this right and fair chance at a comfortable life to many less privileged then myself. Governments have never done anything out of benevolence so anything that changes their anti-middle/working class policies is ok in my book. My only critique would be that the students should have tried some more peacefull tactics before resorting to violence as Guru Sahib teaches us. Based on this i support the students and any other social issue that is championed by the working class. Whether fellow Sikh brothers/sisters agree with this is up to them and i am not here to start an internet war. If i was in the country in question i would also join the students with my fists clenched. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh.
  17. This isnt from the Tears and Ashes Event. This is from a meeting in BC organized by various Sikh Groups. The Tears and Ashes footage, if it is decided that it will be made public, should be posted on the main website sometime close in the future
  18. Challenging Political Violence against Sikhs (Sikhactivist.net) In a show of national unity, Sikhs on the west coast gathered to discuss the political violence of Canadian MPs against the Sikh community. The meeting which was attended by many Sikh organizations, highlighted a growing disillusionment with the Liberal Party of Canada. Specifically, the response by the Party with regards to the 1984 Genocide Petition and the comments made by both Ujjal Dosanjh and Michael Ignatieff - accusing Sikhs of extremism and much more has left the community feeling victimized. Through their unfounded accusations leveled against the Sikh community for which they have refused to take accountability or show proof of, Sikhs are beginning to question why their own elected MPs are attacking their rights as Canadians citizens. Further, townhall meetings have been organized nationally to discuss how to reconcile the abuse of power by Liberal MPs who have viciously attacked and attempted to defame the peaceful and democratic processes used by the Sikh community to address the Human Rights violations of 1984 by the Indian Government. Below is some footage from the second of two meetings held nationally. The first meeting was held in Toronto during which the Sikh community met with 2 Liberal MPs and the second, from which the footage below is taken, was recently held in BC. Indira Prahst – Professor of Sociology http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Yi-tqFV7n8&feature=player_embedded Jagmeet Singh – Criminal Attorney http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFcmZd9EIzw&feature=player_embedded Jatinder Singh – Sikhs For Justice http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLM9CcbxH5M&feature=player_embedded http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7A4qGnZfwo&feature=player_embedded
  19. jyhw bIjY so luxY mQY jo iliKAwsu ] jaehaa beejai so lunai mathhai jo likhiaas || As you plant, so shall you harvest; your destiny is recorded on your forehead.
  20. that stuff should be everywhere around the main bazaar in Jalandhar. Or if you go to Harimander Sahib, Amritsar itll be at almost every shop as well. For cds, etc. go to the taksal shop across Guru Arjun Dev Niwas, close to the langar hall. They have almost everything. They're should be a big picture of Sant Ji and Baba Thakur Singh Ji, shouldn't be hard to miss
  21. With Honor of Hosting Bibi Paramjit Kaur Khalra, The Sikh Activist Network in association with The World Sikh Organization will be holding a 2 Day event to uncover and remember the story of Jaswant Singh Khalra and the disappearance/murders of thousands of Sikhs in Punjab. ================================================ SCHEDULE ================================================ DAY 1 September 11th, 1-6pm Sheriden College (Room H131) Limited to 100 spots, register asap, FREE EVENT To Register Email: info@sikhactivist.net The first day will be a youth event, with free admission. On this day, attendees will have the honor to meet with Jaswant Singh Khalra's wife and engage in a series of workshops including: Intimate discussion with Bibi Khalra Joining and working on SAN's first ever Graffiti Mural project Viewing of a Documentary Film on Torture in Punjab Discussing current human rights abuses in Punjab Meeting with those who witnessed torture by the Punjab Police DAY 2 September 12th, 5-9pm Dixie Gurughar, Hall #5 All are welcome On the following day, The Sikh Activist Network, The World Sikh Organization, OntarioSikhs, SikhVibes and various other youth organizations will hold a Memorial Keertan in Memory of Jaswant Singh Khalra. ================================================ What's the Story of Jaswant Singh Khalra? ================================================ In the late 1990′s Amnesty International named Jaswant Singh Khalra one of their Human Rights Defenders to recognize the 50th Anniversary of the United Nations Declaration of Human Rights. The acheivement, however was bitter-sweet. The achievement highlighted Jaswant Singh Khalra's unveiling of evidence regardingthe thousands of illegal cremations/murders conducted by the Punjab Police in their cover-up to systematically target, torture and murder Punjabi Sikh Youth. In only 1 of 17 districts in Punjab, Jaswant Singh Khalra unravelled the Punjab Polices murder of approximately 3000 youth. After the Indian Supreme Court rejected Jaswant Singh Khalra's effort to bring his evidence to court, stating that since the murders did not concern him directly he had no right to present them, he traveled the world to bring international attention to the issue. In June 1995, he spoke on Canadian Parliament and in September 1995, after receiving threats from the Punjab police upon his return to Punjab, Jaswant Singh Khalra was abducted. It witness testimony it was later revealed that Jaswant Singh Khalra had been abducted by 4 Punjab Police officers on September 6th, kept in illegal custody and tortured until October 24th and murdered the same evening by the police, after being cut into pieces and thrown into the river Sutlej. Five police officers were eventually sentenced to life in prison for his abduction and murder, but the chief architects of systematic killings, including former Punjab Police Chief KP Gill, remain free. Even after receiving threats stating that if he did not stop his work, that he too would become an unidentified body from the Punjab Police, Jaswant Singh Khalra remained dedicated. On the 15 year Anniversary of his Disappearance and Murder, we salute his great soul.
  22. Check this link as well: This has been discussed before, you can read through the above link and make up your mind. Anyways im sorry to the original poster for hijacking the thread. I will not respond again unless absolutely necessary.
  23. Yes i know which quotes you refer to. There are many things in Gurbani which are misquoted by shararti people to advance their manmat. One such quote is: kbIr pRIiq iek isau kIey Awn duibDw jwie ] kabeer preeth eik sio keeeae aan dhubidhhaa jaae || Kabeer, when you are in love with the One Lord, duality and alienation depart. BwvY lWby kys kru BwvY Grir mufwie ]25] bhaavai laa(n)bae kaes kar bhaavai gharar muddaae ||25|| You may have long hair, or you may shave your head bald. ||25|| This quote is one of the most misquoted quotes from Gurbani. It has been discussed on these forums many times and any doubts people have have been cleared by forum members. From http://www.sikhism101.com/node/148 "There is one Salokh of Bhagat Kabeer Ji which is often misquoted by mischievous people trying to justify the un-Godly act of shaving or trimming their hair. ਕਬੀਰ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ਇਕ ਸਿਉ ਕੀਏ ਆਨ ਦੁਬਿਧਾ ਜਾਇ ॥ ਭਾਵੈ ਲਾਂਬੇ ਕੇਸ ਕਰੁ ਭਾਵੈ ਘਰਰਿ ਮੁਡਾਇ ॥੨੫॥ "O Kabeer! When you are in love with the One Lord, duality and alienation depart. You may have long matted hair, or you may shave your head bald. ||25||" (Ang 1365) These lines criticize both those who have long matted hair or shave their head completely in order to achieve union with God. In these lines, the question of keeping or not keeping Kesh is not the case. Similarly Guru Ji says: ਕਬੀਰ ਮਨੁ ਮੂੰਡਿਆ ਨਹੀ ਕੇਸ ਮੁੰਡਾਏ ਕਾਂਇ ॥ ਜੋ ਕਿਛੁ ਕੀਆ ਸੋ ਮਨ ਕੀਆ ਮੂੰਡਾ ਮੂੰਡੁ ਅਜਾਂਇ ॥੧੦੧॥ "O Kabeer! You have not shaved your mind, so why do you shave your head? Whatever is done, is done by the mind; it is useless to shave your head. ||101||" (Ang 1369) This salok (couplet) clarifies the above salok." For more information please search the forums or msg pjs veer ji, N30, etc. as they have alot of knowledge. And secondly i find it amusing how you believe "Sikhism" and not "khalsaism" The Khalsa wasnt something Guru Gobind Singh whipped out because he was bored. The Khalsa and Sikhi are not 2 different entities like you make them out to be. They are one and the same. The framework for 1699 was laid by Guru Nanak Dev Sahib Ji. Guru Nanak is the founder of the Khalsa. The Khalsa are Sikhs and the Sikhs are the Khalsa, they are one. One becomes a Sikh by taking Amrit. Amrit is a must for each and every person who wants to call him/herself a Sikh as ordered by Guru Gobind Singh in the puratan rehitnamas. Before Khande Bate Da Amrit there was Charn Amrit which was given by the Gurus (Bhai Gurdas Vaaran make this clear as well). Amrit and the Khalsa wasn't something started by Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Everything was started by Guru Nanak Dev Sahib Ji. IMO you seem to be one of those "Sikhs" that Giani Thakur Singh talks about in his Katha. He met a Sikh who had a picture of Guru Nanak Dev Sahib Ji in his house. Giani Ji said to him "that's a beautiful picture you have, why not buy one of Guru Gobind Singh Ji as well to put beside Guru Nanaks" And the so called sikh responded "i dont beleive in Guru Gobind Singh i only beleive in Guru Nanak because Guru Nanak was "thanda" and Guru Gobind Singh was "garm". Please lose this mentality, Guru Nanak Dev Sahib Ji and Guru Gobind Singh Ji are one and the same, they are the same Jot
  24. you genie sahib need to do some reading and learn something about your religion before posting such preposterous comments online. Instead of looking up to Singhs and Singhnia with high jeevans and trying to be the dust of their feet you people just morph Sikhi to suit your own twisted views. Bhagat Kabeer Ji Guru Granth Sahib Ang 344: caudis caudh lok mJwir ] choudhas choudheh lok majhaar || On the fourteenth day of the lunar cycle, in the fourteen worlds rom rom mih bsih murwir ] rom rom mehi basehi muraar || and on each and every hair, the Lord abides. sq sMqoK kw Drhu iDAwn ] sath sa(n)thokh kaa dhharahu dhhiaan || Center yourself and meditate on truth and contentment. kQnI kQIAY bRhm igAwn ]15] kathhanee kathheeai breham giaan ||15|| Speak the speech of God's spiritual wisdom. ||15|| Guru Raam Das Sahib Ji, Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 443 romy roim roim romy mY gurmuiK rwmu iDAwey rwm ] romae rom rom romae mai guramukh raam dhhiaaeae raam || With each and every hair, with each and every hair, as Gurmukh, I meditate on the Lord. rwm nwmu iDAwey pivqu hoie Awey iqsu rUpu n ryiKAw kweI ] raam naam dhhiaaeae pavith hoe aaeae this roop n raekhiaa kaaee || I meditate on the Lord's Name, and become pure; He has no form or shape. Guru Nanak Dev Sahib Ji, Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 941 gurmuiK roim roim hir iDAwvY ] guramukh rom rom har dhhiaavai || The Gurmukh meditates on the Lord with every hair of his body. nwnk gurmuiK swic smwvY ]27] naanak guramukh saach samaavai ||27|| O Nanak, the Gurmukh merges in Truth. ||27|| Guru Gobind Ji Says: (Reference Budda Dal Gutka Sahib for gurmukhi version of below Bachan) "bina shasrtran kesang narang bhed jaano. ghe kaan tako kite lai sidano. ehai mor agiya sun leh piyare. bina teg kesang n devo didaare." Without weapons and intact hair, consider that individual a sheep. That sheep can be taken anywhere by the ear. Listen to my words Beloveds. Without weaponse and intact hair, I will not give you my darshan. Now tell me genie where does it mention the hair on the head, beard, female, or male in any of the above shabads or the rehitnama? Please refrain from spreading falsehood in the future. Guru Sahibs Hukam is for a Gursikh, male or female, to keep hair unshorn from the tip of their head to their toes. If you choose to ignore this then its your own loss.
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