Jai Singh

On the contrary Jai Singh Ji, I welcome different opinions. What I ( and the members on this forum ) do not want to hear is hypocritical opinions. I would rather that you sat down and read about the history of partition and after before you begin any discussions on this subject again, unless you you wish to portray yourself as a person with limited knowledge of Panjabi and Indian history. To blame Bhindranwale and terrorism is the easy way out. Im sure you are made of better stuff than this. Good luck if you do decide to act on my request. If you need any help pm me. To demand khalistan on just what happened in 1984 due to wrongdoings of some indivduals on both sikh and non-sikh sides; is very short sighted stance, and is also the sign of a weak person in my opinion. good luck to you also, i hope your minds opens for the greater good in the future. by the way I have an MA in history, I am well read in Indian history, maybe thats why my opinions are not as narrow minded as yours.

I've said what I had to say, if you dont like it its not my problem. it is apparent that you dont want to hear different opinions, so i wont bother to continue.

After reading some of the responses hear, it appears you khalistanis/bhindrawala supporters have started to tread the same path muslim fundamentalists are walking. youre views and speech are increasingly becoming like them, i.e. intolerant, aggressive and fanatical good luck to you! By the way khalistan supporters check this link out !!!: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/748866.stm Maybe you can help in getting some justice here!!!! Call for end to Sikh murder mystery <BR clear=all><DIV class=bodytext>by BBC News Online's Chris Summers An MP, Piara Khabra, has urged the police to redouble their efforts to find the killer of a Sikh newspaper editor assassinated in London five years ago, a crime which could be linked to the Air India bombing in 1985. The murder of Tarsem Singh Purewal, editor of Britain's biggest-selling Punjabi weekly Des Pardes, in Southall, west London may also be linked to the assassination of another Punjabi-language newspaper in Canada in 1998. Tara Singh Hayer, editor of the Indo-Canadian Times, was gunned down at his home in Surrey, British Columbia 10 years after being paralysed by another gunman. <BR clear=all><BR clear=all>Tarsem Singh Purewal (left) pictured with Tara Singh Hayer in 1983 © Vancouver Sun Mr Hayer's son, Dave, told BBC News Online: "I'm sure the same organisation was behind both deaths, if not the same individual. "My father and Mr Purewal were good friends and both were investigating the same elements in the Sikh community. He said: "They are small in number but they are involved in criminal activities, terrorism. They were trying to expose them." Mr Hayer, whose father was installed in the Canadian Press Hall of Fame last month, said: "Despite being shot in 1988, he decided to stand up for his community and said 'If they are going to kill me, so be it'." He said he believed the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP) might be close to cracking the case and said: "Hopefully when it is solved, the Purewal case will be looked at again. "There are so many good, honest British Sikhs who will bring this information to the police. They will be helping the Sikh cause, as well as bringing the criminals to justice." <BR clear=all><BR clear=all>The Golden Temple in Amritsar is the Sikh 'holy of holies' Gurbux Singh Virk, editor of Des Pardes, told BBC News Online it appeared the police had closed the file on his predecessor's murder and he said he was "disappointed" with their attitude. The roots to both killings seem to lie in Punjabi politics. Landlocked In 1984, then Indian Prime Minister Indira Gandhi sent the army in to crush pro-independence Sikhs in the Punjab. But she signed her own death warrant by ordering troops to flush militants out of the sacred Golden Temple in Amritsar. Her assassination, by her Sikh bodyguards, sparked a wave of attacks on Sikhs all over India. In the Punjab supporters of an independent Sikh state - known as Khalistan - massacred many political opponents and non-Sikhs. <BR clear=all>The SikhsThe Sikh religion was founded by a Hindu, Guru Nanak, in the 16th century but retains close cultural links with Hinduism.There are 20 million Sikhs worldwide, of whom 9.5 million live in the Punjab, a fertile area of northern India which provides 60% of India's grain.Orthodox adherents are distinguished by long, flowing hair known as kesh - worn in a turban by men; a metal bangle or kkara which they wear; a ceremonial dagger or kirpan carried on the waist; a kangha or comb which they also use; and an under-garment called a kaccha.When Britain quit the sub-continent in 1947 the Punjab was split in half and most Sikhs fled Pakistan to live on the Indian side of the border.But by 1990 India had regained the upper hand in the Punjab and violence fell markedly. Stability was achieved at a price - there were accusations of widespread police brutality and many supporters of Khalistan have only recently been released from detention. Sikhs all over the world have been affected by the trouble back home. There are pro- and anti-Khalistan cliques wherever the Sikh diaspora has taken roots. Britain's most sizeable Sikh community is in the west London suburb of Southall. There are also significant Sikh communities in the United States, South Africa, Malaysia and Canada - 250,000 Sikhs live in British Columbia alone. Pro-Khalistan Mr Purewal, 60, founded Des Pardes (Home and Abroad) in 1965 and the paper tended to take a pro-Khalistan viewpoint during the 1980s and early 1990s but shortly before his death he appeared to have fallen out with certain radical Sikh groups. Kim Bolan, a reporter on the Vancouver Sun newspaper who has covered Sikh politics since 1984, told BBC News Online Mr Purewal had been preparing a series of articles uncovering fraud and other shady practices within the separatist movement. She said Mr Purewal, who had been to several Sikh terror training camps in Pakistan, also knew details of the Air India bombing in 1985, which killed 329 people. Around 8.15pm on Tuesday, 24 January 1995, Mr Purewal was pulling down the shutters outside his office in Southall. <BR clear=all><BR clear=all>The Golden Temple in Amritsar is the Sikh 'holy of holies' A gunman appeared from nowhere and killed him with a single shot through the chest. Although it took place in a busy street in the middle of the evening, no witnesses came forward and the killer left few clues. Police arrested several people in Birmingham, including Ragbir Singh, editor of another Sikh newspaper, Awaze Quam. He was eliminated from their inquiries, as were the other suspects. The incident room closed down and the killing appeared forgotten. Piara Khabra, Labour MP for Ealing Southall and himself a Sikh, told BBC News Online: "The police have not been able to get any new information or any evidence whatsoever." He said he intended to write to the Metropolitan Police to discover the reasons for the failure. <BR clear=all><BR clear=all>Piara Khabra: "There is no reason to give up" Mr Khabra said: "I read about cases from 40 years ago being detected, and yet this case seems to be beyond them. I sometimes feel that not much attention is given to these cases if they are members of the ethnic minority community, certainly not as much as for white murders." 'No reason to give up' Mr Khabra said: "It does not matter what the motive is, the police should be investigating properly and should find the murderer. "With Mr Purewal's case, I don't know whether they have given up. There should be no reason to give up." Jump forward to Wednesday 18 November 1998. Mr Hayer was manouvering himself from his car into his wheelchair when the killer struck. No-one saw the gunman, who chose to strike in the garage, knowing he would be shielded from the close circuit television cameras which police had installed around the house after the 1988 shooting. Corporal Dan Russell, of the RCMP, told BBC News Online: "It is still an active investigation. We have not charged anybody but we still have leads to follow." He said Mr Hayer had received several death threats, some of which emanated from political opponents, shortly before his death but it was not clear if they were from his eventual killers. Air India link Fingers have been pointed in the direction of two radical Sikh groups. Ms Bolan, who has received death threats herself and had to move out of her Vancouver home after shots were fired at it, said pro-Khalistan groups had been on the retreat on both sides of the Atlantic since the early 1990s. Moderate groups have wrested back control of key gurdwaras (temples). She said Mr Hayer had agreed to be a witness against suspects in the Air India case and much of his evidence was based on information he had received from Mr Purewal. Ms Bolan said: "Mr Purewal was on the verge of doing a series of articles which were going to embarrass the ISYF and Babbar Khalsa." <BR clear=all><BR clear=all>Britain's Sikh community is very close knit <FONT size=2 face=sans-serif>A few days after Mr Purewal was killed a caller claiming to represent a group implicated in the assassination of Mrs Gandhi claimed responsibility for the killing. But there was no way to corroborate the claim. After all, Mr Purewal's death could have had a more banal explanation. Detectives investigating his death unearthed evidence he had been routinely breaking UK law by publishing the name of rape victims in court reports. Court officials were unaware, because they could not read Punjabi. But one theory circulating in Southall was that Mr Purewal was murdered by a hitman hired by a family whose name had been disgraced by the naming of their daughter as a rape victim. Mr Khabra said: "I'm not concerned about what was the motive, murder is murder and it's the police's duty to find the culprit and the police have to explain why they appear to have given up." A Scotland Yadrd spokeswoman said: "The case was reviewed last year as a result of new information. "All lines of inquiry were pursued and exhausted. However if any new information comes to light this will be fully and thoroughly investigated." <B>Anyone with information about the murder of Mr Purewal should contact the incident room on

Good point, Infact the owner of sikh channel is Davy Bal, who runs claim T solicitors and Brit Asia tv. I cant believe he doesnt charge for brit asia, and drop asking for money for sikh channel. it really dont look good when they are asking for DD's. Another thing i saw on sikh channel today, is theyre asking for further 5000 Direct debits for there london based studio. I think they are using the religious emotions of sikhs to make money.

Let me know who these important indivduals were who made these important decisions! If you got all sikhs in India to vote for these points you have made, it would turn out to be a big NO to Bhindrawala and Khalistan 1986. I think sikhs in india got fed up with what happened after 1986, with terrorists going around killing, raping, abducting, making ransoms, shooting innocent civilians that they just stopped bothering with khalistan. My humble pleaa to all you guys who want khalistan, punjabis just want peace, please leave them alone. if you go to india now, nearly every sikh i meet doesnt give a damm about bhindrawale or khalistan. I know you find this hard to accept, but i reckon you should stop trying to cause tensions in other countries, like india. its obvious youre hell bent on get india partitioned again, but in the end your evil designs are going to fail. I agree 100% with H bhangal he is right, the only thing sikh channel has achieved is dividing the sikh panth, with bhindrawale supporters and extremists on one side, and liberals, educated sikhs on the other side.

I like the way you start making things up about people, who try to put the truth in your face. One simple question to you, when you going to give up your terrorist propoaganda? When you going to accept Bhindrawala was the root cause of terror in punjab, and the starting point to all atrocities. I am not going to respond to all your other points, as I have made myself clear on other posts and topics before. All intelligent people know what is right. I agree with you 100%. These fanatical people are sikh channel workers undercover trying their best to ensure that no new sikh channel opens, and gives them any competition. Ultimately, theyre going to lose!

I am embarrased to hear that you feel that I am a threat !!! What your replys proove is that you cant tolerate any difference in opinion of sikhs. The only opinions you want see and hear are those which praise bhindrawala. In my opinion people like you are dangerous for the sikh panth and the greater globalised world. Have you ever thought why millions of sikhs in India and outside India are anti-Bhindrawala, and not in favour of Khalistan in the way you fanatics want. Theres no smoke without fire!! Yes there are many criticisms by normal sikhs everywhere of Bhindrawala, such as what he was doing with arms in golden temple, and he was going around punjab terrorising people, and forcing them in to his own personal opinion of sikhism. Go to punjab talk to ordinary people you will find out the truth. Your a threat to unity and tolerance. Its people like you who cause communal riots and demands for partition. People like you will never do anything themselves, but will just sit in canada, u.s. or u.k. and cause the deaths of others in India. Dont worry the Guru will expose people like you in the future, and ensure that our religion doesnt get hijacked by terrorists as it was in early 1980s. I really hope one day your eyes open to the truth. Thats my final response on these issues, I am not going to bother to answer all the propoganda point by point! Lets get back to the point of sikh media, my original point was lets wait and see what happens, and forget about what sikh channel 840 is saying. i think they are just scare mongering as they want their own financial monopoly on sikh media. Lets let the sikh media flourish, and stop putting hurdles in teh way of our community members.

That was on the BBC News also about 2 years back. Try on BBC site. It happened in birmingham. Sullahs will never stop in there attempts to humiliate other religions. The fight with them will have to continue til the end of Kalyug.

I like this Jarnail Singh. He has been effectively demanding justice for 1984 victims, without seeking money, fame for himself, and best of all he is not wasting everyones time by demanding Khalistan!

Whats the problem if another group want to open a Sikh Channel. Why do we always try to create hurdles for people in our own community. Everyone has their own opinion and everyone is entitled to voice their opinion. Not all Sikhs agree with the Sikh Channel 840 opinion of Unity. Sikh channel unity is for Khalisatanis and Bhindrawale supporters only. You will notice, if you watch all sikh channel discussions, theyre always criticising Hindus and Indian Govt, but if a sikh comes on air and says anything against Islamic Governments or sharia law or muslims he will get dismissed for talking nonsense or they will switch him of. Surely that is hypocrisy and bias. If you want proof of what I am saying please ref to discussion on sikh channel last saturday at 9.15pm - sikhs on death row in dubai. They will not here any critizicsm about Islam, but they will jump to criticize hindus, christians, west etc. I think the present sikh channel on 840 is sponsored by either muslims or Pakistan government as thyre always praising muslims. The only reason they are knocking this new channel is because they want a financial monopoly on the sikh tv media. They dont want competition, thats the bottom line. Also please dont reply to me if youre going to. accuse me of being a Hindu or traitor or Congress lover. I am neither, infact I am sikh who is concerned about too many muslim influences coming to sikh media and society. I think its a positive step there are more sikh channels, and we should welcome a variety of opinions. Lets wait and see what happens, and not start criticizing and being negative about these things before anything has happened.

Bhagat Ramanand has one Shabad(poem) in Sri Guru Granth Sahib. There is a drama documenting his life currently on NDTV IMAGINE, the programme is called Bharat Ke Mahan Sant. THIS IS MUST WATCH FOR ALL SIKHS. Ramananda (1400?-1470?), also referred to as Saint Ramanand or Swami Ramanand, was a Vaishnava sant, a Ramayat (devotee of Rama). He is considered to be the founder of the Ramanandi Sampradaya religious system. He lived in the Indian holy city of Varanasi, and was a pioneer of the Bhakti movement, as well as a social reformer in Northern India. He was known for communicating in vernacular Hindi, and accepting disciples of all castes. His most famous disciples were Dhanna Bhagat, Kabirdas, Nabhadas, Pipa, Ravidas, Sain, and Tulsidas. Early lifeRamananda is generally considered to have been born around AD 1400, although there is disagreement on the exact date and place of birth, due to the few texts regarding his early life. Birthplaces have been suggested as triveni sangam Allahabad, Prayaga, ]]. He was born to an upper-caste Brahmin family, and his parents were probably named Sushila and Punyasadan sharma, with roots in Southern India. When Ramananda was a child, he studied scriptures and showed great interest in spiritual thoughts. He probably received his early education in Kasi under a sant who was a member of Sankara’s order. From a young age,Ramananda learned from Swami Raghavananda, an ascetic of the new Sri Vaishnava order, expounded by Ramanuja, a renowned philosopher and the prophet of the new Vaishnava religion, known for his downplaying the role of caste.swami Ramanand went to SRIMATHKashi,to learn Vedic literature. Ramanuja was a Brahman of Southern India whose campaign was teaching monotheism through sri vaishnavism. Ramananda embraced many of Ramanuja's teachings, such as adoration of Vishnu, Krishna and Rama; also their respective wives, Lakshmi, Rukmini, and Sita. Ramananda was particularly known for worshiping Rama and his wife Sita. Ramanuja and Ramananda both believed that the human soul is distinct from the Supreme Spirit and retains its identity and separate consciousness. As an early follower of Ramanuja, Ramananda affirmed that his prophet was an incarnation of the divine serpent Sesha. Ramananda became a famous teacher of the Ramanuja order, spending a large period of time on Mt. Abu where he practiced yoga and succeeded in obtaining siddhis. His footprints are visible at SRIMATH, Panchganga ghat,KASHI. . Ramananda visited many places of pilgrimage, including Jagganath Puri ,still has a memorial in his honour. [edit] Adult life When Ramananda was a young man, he left home and became a sannyasi (ascetic) before he lived at Benares (Varanasi). The success of the spread of Sri Vaishnava doctrines in Southern India led to circulation of the doctrines in the Gangetic valley, where the spread of the doctrines is attributed to the preaching and teaching of Ramananda. Being one of the first members of the Sri Vaishnavas, Ramananda was called to worship Sri or Lakshmi, as the spouse of Vishnu. The sect was most marked by the peculiarity of their regard to food, a fact that, in Ramananda’s mature life, led to his separation from the sect. Sri Vaishnavas were not permitted to eat anything that had not been prepared by the member themselves and in absolute privacy. If a Ramanujite is eating, the householder of his sect must be clad either in woolen or silk, yet no cotton garments.] However, of fundamental importance to present-day Ramanandi identities are the first four decades of the twentieth century\emdash and in particular the years 1918\endash 1921, when \ldblquote radical\rdblquote Ramanandis decided to reject any institutional monastic connection between Ramananda and Ramanuja, the twelfth-century theologian of south India who had long been regarded as the originator of Vaishnava bhakti and, hence, a prominent figure in the Ramanandi tradition. Needless to say, the Ramanandi conception of Ramananda would undergo fundamental, and controversial, change as a result of this decision. Ramananda traveled in South India for a large part of his life, and on his return, his brother sants refused to admit him into their fold, arguing that Ramananda had not upheld the sect’s regard to food, saying that he had not maintained proper eating habits on his travels. He was therefore required to eat his meals away from the rest of his brethren, and because of this exclusion, Ramananda founded a new sect. To show his contempt for caste distinctions, he freely admitted men of all castes, even the lowest. His new order was called the Ramavat Sampradaya, otherwise known as the Ramanandi sect. Ramananda’s views were very liberal, he wrote lessons in vernacular Hindi, and he taught his views in the language of the common people. All his sisyas wrote in Hindi. Ramananda believed that in spiritual pursuit, the caste system of India is redundant. He believed that to truly devote yourself to the Lord Ram, you must forget your caste identity and social status. Ramananda is quoted as saying, “Let no one ask a man’s caste or with whom he eats. If a man is devoted to Hari, he becomes Hari’s own.” Ramananda had disciples of all castes, including Muslims. Ramananda’s most famous disciples were Anantananda, Bhavananda, Dhanna Bhagat, Kabir, Nabha, Naraharyanda, Pipa, Ravidas, Sain, Sukhanada, and Tulsidas. His two most famous disciples were Pipa and Kabir, who each grew to be great prophets that were even more famous than Ramananda himself. We know that Ravidas, a famous Hindu prophet, was one of Ramananda’s disciples from the Parichai of Anantdas and Satik Bhaktamal of Priyadas. Ramananda adopted the ritual of always sharing meals with his disciples, proving that he did not believe in classic caste rules. It is said that in his original tewlve disciples was at least one woman, which was very rare. From the story of Kabir, a famous Hindu philosopher and disciple of Ramananda, it is said that Kabir was initiated into Ramananda’s sect by accident. Ramananda stayed indoors all day and only left his quarters at about two o’clock in the morning to go down to the Ganges River to have a bath and perform his devotions. Because Kabir held this knowledge of Ramananda’s daily habits, Kabir waited one night for Ramananda by lying on the steps of a Panchganga ghat in Ganga. When Ramananda accidentally stepped on Kabir on his way to bathe, he uttered “Ooth! Ram ko Ram bolo!” (Rise up! Say Ram to Ram!). This became, for Kabir, the sacred mantra. Ramananda later embraced Kabir when he understood the depth of Kabir’s sincerity. Because of Ramananda, Kabir grew among the ranks of important religious reformers in India. [edit] Teachings Ramananda is today held by Ramanandis to have been an avatar of Ramchandra, the god-king of epic Ayodhya,who returned to earth to rescue Hinduism from the corrupting effects of human divisiveness. The institutional centrality of Ramananda has long been reflected in the 'guru parampara' that connects every Ramanandi through an unbroken succession of gurus with Ramanand himself and, eventually, Ramchandra. Ramananda taught his followers to pay special attention to Rama and his wife Sita. Because of political dangers looming on the horizon, Rama was a natural focus of worship due to his position as the faultless prince. As outlined in the famous Sanskrit epic, the Ramayana, Rama, while an incarnation of deity, was a successful warrior capable of defeating the terrible ten-headed demon-king of the Rakshasas. Ramananda defined his own studies with his dedication and self-surrender to the Supreme Soul. According to Saint Ramananda, Lord Rama was the Supreme Spirit and the human race was simply one large family. He was a skilled and impressive preacher who drew large crowds wherever he traveled, yet most of Ramananda’s poems and sayings were not preserved. The result is the lack of texts that modern scholars and historians can use to unearth the life of Ramananda. Only one poem is recorded in the Guru Granth Sahib, the holy book of the Sikhs. This poem, called the Raga Basant, describes Ramananda’s profound philosophy: “O my brother, where shall I go, why should I wander? The pleasure I seek is in my very own home. My mind will not stray, for my heart is now steadfast. One day, a yearning arose in my heart, and I went with sandal shavings and essence and so many perfumes, so I could worship Brahma in the temple. But then the guru told me that the Brahma I sought dwelt in my very own heart. Wherever I went I met only water and stone—but You remain all-pervasive and forever unchanging. I read and searched all the Vedas and the Puranas; I go to them if I do not find Him here. O my true guru, I am your handmaid, your living sacrifice, for you have cut away all my hardened doubts, all my great fears. Ramananda’s lord is all-pervasive Brahma—a guru’s word can destroy a million sins.” This poem, originally written in Hindi, professes Ramananda’s great teaching of the giving up of caste for Lord Rama, or the “true guru” who remains “all-pervasive and forever unchanging.” This poem expresses Ramananda’s belief that Lord Rama is a sturdy foundation for which one should place faith, instead of the caste system. By comparing the “Brahma in the temple” with the Brahma that “dwelt in [his] own heart,” Ramananda compares the highest caste to the highest spiritual figure, Lord Rama. In this poem, Ramananda also uses many themes that appeared in his other works. In this poem is the theme of the heart. Ramananda believed that in the state of deep spiritual communion, when the disturbances of the mind are gone and the attention is not searching for outward distractions, all consciousness settles into the core: the heart. Ramananda believed that if one looks deep into themselves, they are able to find that everything has always been held in the heart. Along with his practices of yoga, Ramananda thought that looking into oneself and into one’s heart will bring the feeling of absolute contentment and interconnection. Another theme that is prevailing in the works of Ramananda and many other Hindu texts is that of perfume. The scent is tantalizing and is sometimes called the Celestial Drink. The blissful scent can be thought of as a tool to awaken sacred ardor upon a spiritual journey. The third theme in the Raga Basant is water. In this poem, water is used as a metaphor to describe each human being on earth as a small drop of water within the Ocean of Lord Rama. This metaphor suggests the insignificance of one man, or an entire caste of humans, in comparison to Lord Ram. The reason why all his teachings were in Hindi is because Sanskrit was only the language of the elite. [edit] Death There is much controversy concerning the place and date of Saint Ramananda’s death due to the lack of information available about his life. Many historians believe that Ramananda died around AD 1470-80 yet there is no unanimity regarding the date. Ramananda’s name is read on the list of predecessors during the time of a religious dispute between Sikandar Lodi and his religious teacher, Sheik Taki. From this information Ramananda’s date of death can be fixed as late 15th century. However, there is a story about Ramananda which claims he escaped death altogether by entering a Samadhi stage, a yogic exercise, and remaining is laying as charanpaduka at Srimathin kashi [edit] Contributions It is widely believed that Ramananda was an influential social reformer of Northern India. A disciple of Ramanuja, Ramananda broke from his sect and founded the Ramanandi sect, which played a significant role in the development of both Hindu religion and Hindi literature, because Ramananda spoke and wrote in only Hindi. The study of modern Hindi literature as it is taught in the colleges of India today, generally starts with the telling of devotional stories and poems written by people whom the Vaisnavite bards claim were spiritual descendants of Ramananda. These men include the great saints Tulsi Das, Mira Bai, and Kabir. Also, Ramananda played an important role in opening a religious sect that provided a spiritual pathway to all people of all castes. He took a very radical approach to teaching and preaching through the inclusion of the poor and the people of low caste. After Ramananda’s death, the members of the Ramanandi sect led a minor social revolution in the Ganges basin by recruiting women and members of low castes into their sect. In addition, Saint Ramananda was the driving force of the popularization of the devotion of Lord Ram. In modern day society, the present Ramanandi school of religious teaching is the largest Vaishnava monastic order in North India today. It may also be the largest monastic order of a sectarian affiliation in the entire subcontinent of India. Monasteries of the Ramanandi sect are in many states such as Bengal, Bihar, Madhya Pradesh, Orissa, Gujarat, Maharastra, Bajasthan, Haryana, Punjab, Uttar Pradesh,Andhra Pradesh(Shri Hathiramji Mutt at Tirumala and Tirupati) the Nepal Valley, and the Nepalese Tarai. It is estimated that the Ramanandi sect competes with the Dasnami sect for the title of being the largest Hindu ascetic sect. [edit] Historical interpretations Much about the life of Ramananda and his contributions to India are disputed between scholars. Because of a dearth of information, little is known about the birthplace, life, and death of Ramananda. It is questioned, for instance, whether Ramananda was born in the south or the north. More significantly, while texts written by his disciples indicate that Ramananda was significant in the lives of people in Northern India while he was living, modern scholars argue whether he was in fact as influential as he is described to be. The claim that the Ramanandi sect was founded by Ramananda has been called into question, both by academic scholars and a group of “radical Ramanandis” in the 20th century who disagreed with the Brahman tie with Ramanuja. Given the historical importance of the Ramanandi sect, many scholars find it hard to believe that there is such little information in the sectarian literature on the events which led to its formation. Scholars have tried to reconstruct the early history of the Ramanandi sect, yet there is such a scarcity of information that scholars reach different conclusions. Most scholars assume that Ramananda created the Ramanandi sect because they assume sectarian sources to be accurate or they second-guessed the literature in order to reconstruct the events which led to the founding of the Ramanandi sect. Of the few books written by Ramananda himself, some may have been written by his followers and then accredited to Ramananda in order to give legitimacy to the sect. Some scholars believe that Ramananda truly was a great Hindi saint, yet others feel that from the lack of information provided, that Ramananda was not a historically important enough saint to have caused others to write details of his life. It seems to many scholars, that the life of Ramananda is far inferior to the accounts of the lives of his disciples who have extensive biographies written about them. From much research, many scholars believe that Ramananda did not, in fact, create the Ramanandi sect. They believe that the Ramanandi sect was an act of the imagination initiated by Ramananda’s followers. [edit] Legacy Ramananda attained mahasamadhi in about 1470 and Ramananda’s twelve disciples founded sub-sects known as dvaras. All Ramanandis bear the distinguishing Vishnu sect mark, the Trifala, on their foreheads. The Trifala consists of three upright lines. There is a red line in the center and a white or yellow line on either side of the red line. All Ramanandis also wear necklaces and rosaries that are made of wooden tulasi beads. There are four sub-sects of Ramanandis, and all of the sub-sects are celibate. The sub-sects are named the Achari, the Sanyasi, the Khaki, and the Bairagi. The bairagi are by far the largest group of people. The Acharis wear garments made of silk and wool, the Sanyasis wear salmon colored clothes made out of cotton, while the Khakis usually go about without any clothes. The bairagis do not wear colored clothes and they do not cut their hair or nails. None of the sub-sects of the Ramanandis eat meat or drink alcohol, yet many of them are addicted to bhang. Ramananda’s movement and sect of Ramanandi was created to oppose and rebel from the established and strict caste system which Ramananda had abhorred from a young age.The main acharyapeeth of Ramanandi sampraday is Srimath, panchaganga ghat, kashi. Swami Ramnareshacharya ji maharaj is head of the sect. Ramanadi called him Jagadguru Ramanandacharya swami Ramnareshacharya ji maharaj. Bhagat Ramanand was a follower of Bhagat Raghavacharya of the Ramanuj Movement. In the later part of his life, Ramanand commanded more respect than even his own Guru and came to be known as an exponent of Bhakti (God worship). [edit] Early life Born in 1366 CE, Ramanand was the son of Bhoor Karma and Sushila. He was spiritually inclined from his early childhood. He was a Tamilian by birth. Acharya Raghavnand, showed him the path of Yog sadhna. Ramanand also visited places of pilgrimage such as Kashi, where, as a mark of respect, people built a memorial that stands there to this day. After his pilgrimage, Ramanand realised that God can be worshipped by everyone whereas his Guru Archarya Raghavnand, who came from the Sadhu Varna Ashrama believed that not everyone was entitled to perform Puja Bhagati. [edit] Preaching Hence, he started preaching his gospel in Kashi and imbued many devotees with the spirit of Bhagati. Kabir is the most renowned amongst his disciples. Ravidas, Sain, Dhanna and Pipa are also believed to be his followers even though all of them were not his contemporaries. Consequently, the spiritual life of those so-called low people got elevated. In the society, which was then bound in the shackles of the caste-system, such utterances had revolutionary effects. As it was, Brahmins were the only community which had the birth right to perform various rituals & observances connected with religion. But the liberal attitude adopted on the part of Ramanand led the Vairagi (a renouncer) tradition to accept him as their prominent Acharya (Hindu religious teacher). In this way, a new sect among the Vairagis under the name of Ramadatt came into being. This sect stressed celibacy, physical prowess & intense devotion to God. Ramanand had several disciples who guided mankind on the way to bhagati (worshipping). Bhagat Pipa was one of his prominent disciples. Pipa was a king who gave up his ego & came under the patronage to seek spiritual guidance. As a king, he served his subject to their utmost welfare. Bhagat Ramanand also wandered about in Pipa's kingdom for some time. On the basis of his first-hand knowledge, he testified that was as a good a saint as he was a ruler. In his regime, all subjects enjoyed peace, justice and material comforts irrespective of caste or class. Ramanand was a learned man. Many of the books which are supposed to have been written by him such as Sri Vaishnava, Matanbuj Bhaskar, Sri Ramarachan Padhti are still available. One of his hymns has been included in Guru Granth Sahib under Rag Basant. [edit] Shabad of Ramanand in Guru Granth Sahib Where should I go? My home is filled with bliss. My consciousness does not go out wandering. My mind has become crippled. || 1 || Pause || One day, a desire welled up in my mind. I ground up sandalwood, along with several fragrant oils. I went to God’s place, and worshipped Him there. That God showed me the Guru, within my own mind. || 1 || Wherever I go, I find water and stones. You are totally pervading and permeating in all. I have searched through all the Vedas and the Puraanas. I would go there, only if the Lord were not here. || 2 || I am a sacrifice to You, O my True Guru. You have cut through all my confusion and doubt. Raamanand’s Lord and Master is the All-pervading Lord God. The Word of the Guru’s Shabad eradicates the karma of millions of past actions. || 3 || 1 || (SGGS, 1195) Source: Wikipedia

Read my post above yours. I think you missed that!! If you think that I have two different ID's, then sorry thats your opinion. I cant help you further on that. Your talking as though you were with Bhindrawale in 1984, and you helped him escape!!! ( that theory that Bhindrawale never died in 1984 and he escaped by Khalistanis, makes me laugh. You need your brains checked !!!) You should be monitored for spreading hate, extremist, and terrorist propoganda. I am sorry that I dont belong to your primitive club! Clearly, you are unable to discuss matters in an amicable manner or accept different opinions. Dont worry I wont be spoiling your Khalistani propoganda anymore. I will let you carry on, as I HAVE SAID WHAT I HAD TO SAY. THIS AND MY POSTS ABOVE IS MY FINAL RESPONSES ON THESE MATTERS. Any intelligent person can see whose right or wrong.

Yes thats right, but there are many quotes in the Koran which are against non muslims. This is where the problem starts and never ends!

To comradz_singhs I expected people ( i wont call you funny names like you do when you get with frustrated by liberal minded opinions by sikhs!) like you to say I am not a proper sikh and of spreading hindu propaganda here. Please be advised I am sikh, but one who is prepared for to discuss matters openly. If you dont believe then I can only apologise. You say Guru Gobind Singh defended Anandpur sahib, and you use this as a justification for Bhindrawale's action. In the 17th century Anandpur sahib was not Anandpur sahib as we know it now, Guru Gobind Singh developed Chakk Guru, or Makhowal as it was then known as a fortified town. This had been the base of the Guru's since the 6 th Guru who decided to move here for its more strategic location, and where sikhs could defend themselves more easily than in the plains of the Punjab. The Gurus fortified this place as they knew full well this place would come under attack. The aim of Guru Govind Singh was to bring the Hindus ( Hill Rajas/rajputs) together with the Sikhs and overthrow the cruel Islamic Mughal Governement. I cant find any historical evidence which suggests that Guru Govind Singh tried to carve out his own sikh state, so to separate Hindus and Sikhs. The Gurus were friends with the Raja's of Jaipur, Assam etc.. and they travelled extensivelly around India to spread their message. If they wanted Punjab, they would have stayed in one area, such as Punjab. You need to remember the Gurus were for everyone, and they throught big and in to the future. They wanted to reform all the people of India from a religious and social viewpoint. In Dasam Granth Guru Govind Singh has even confirmed his ancestoral lineage back to the sons of Ram, Luv and Kush. Read all of Bachittar Natak it clearly outines the purpose of his life : to destroy the tyrants, for sake of Dharma, righteousness and to protect the saints. Next, point about Baba Deep Singh. Baba Deep Singh did not base himself in Harmandir Sahib. When he heard that Harmandir Sahib had been attacked in 1757, he travelled from Damadama Sahib to avenge the attack against the Afghans and free the place from the Afghans. I would suggest you go and read some history on sikhs in 18th century, before you put forward your baseless arguments. Why do you think Banda Singh Bahadur did not make his capital Amritsar, and instead chose Lohgarh, in the Shiwalik hills??? !!!! To Dudley Singhs - I read your comments in favour of Khalistan. Fine, they are your opinions I respect you for that. But believe me killings and murders happened both ways, in the late 1980s many innocent Hindus in Punjab got killed by Khalistan fanatics. Who is accounting for them, who is apologising for that? You. I dont think so. Because you dont care. Attacks on Sikhs in Delhi 1984 were organised by the Congress party, not by the general Hindu population of Delhi. It was an anti-sikh riot not a Hindu-Sikh riot, you need to remember that. The authoriser of the riot was Rajiv Gandhi, he is not alive anymore. I agree that the people like Tytler and Sajjan Kumar who worked under his instruction and anybody else involved should be punished for what they did wrong. One thing I note that you Khalistanis, never ever really bother about how you are going to deal through the political or judicial process in India or through International organisations to get justice for the victims of 1984, and to bring the perpretators of these hideous crimes to book. All you want is Khalistan! My recomendation to you is first go and live in India for the long term, mix with the people there and then demand what you want directly from Indian Government. I cant find 5 sikhs in India who want Khalistan!! All you Khalistanis who think you no more than all the non-Khalistani sikhs all live outside India! I know some Khalistanis who are less than 25 years old, and have never been to India in their life !! We need to unite and work together, Hindus and Sikhs together, to improve things for ourselves, and resolve any internal issues. By breaking ourselves from each other and spreading hatred and propaganda, you can never achieve unity in any form. The Gurus preached love, this brings people together (Guru Granth Sahib includes Bhagats like Namdev, Jaidev, Surdas famous Hindu poets from around India), hatred divides mankind. Lets work to unite, not break and cause partitions. You have seen what happened in 1947, dont tell me you want a repeat. I think that says it all !!!

In Sanatan Dharma (Hinduism), the color deep saffron is associated with sacrifice and salvation. Saffron or "Bhagwa" is often worn by "Sanyasis" who have left their home in search of the ultimate truth.<LI>Buddhist monks in the Theravada tradition typically wear saffron robes (although occasionally maroon--the color normally worn by Vajrayana Buddhist monks--is worn). (The shade of saffron typically worn by Theravada Buddhist monks is the lighter shade of saffron shown above.)<LI>Sikhs use saffron as the background color of the Nishan Sahib, the flag of the Sikh religion, upon which is displayed the khanda in blue Image:Khanda.png. I think we have saffron colour as this was the colour of Indian religions. We got this inheritance from our Hindu ancestors. This is why we, Buddhists and Hindus use this colour for our religions.