H4RPAL

How did I berate Muhammed? I have repeated a story that a Muslim told me, they have no problem accepting the kind of description of the word Taqija that I would describe as negative. Perhaps you would disagree with such a description, but I have noted that many Muslims do indeed disgaree. The story I presented is indeed in one of the Hadiths I believe, as when I first heard it I was suspicious of its origins. A learned Muslim the told me of its source, but I should add he himself did not agree with it, and thus I was lead to believe he questions the legitimacy of this particular Hadith. As for the remaining portion of the statment you directed towards me, I suggest you need to do some more research.

I think you just gave me an idea for April fools day, anyone know what brand of gel is red???

The term is also spelt taqija I believe, and I believe some Muslims note that Muhammed himself sanctioned the use of this technique on numerous occasions. I believe such ocacsions are detailed in some of the Hadiths. From memory, I believe one of the occasions was during some conflict with Arab Pagan types, where one of Muhammed's followers was caught by the enemy and asked if he was a Muslim, which he denied, and to prove this he was made to speak ill of Muhammed and Islam; which he complied with. After his release, he went to Muhhamed to apologise for the sins he commited, whereby he was forgiven, as he could say that while he said all these things with his tongue, his heart always retained love for Muhhamed and Allah. I believe he was then told to do exactly the same thing if ever caught again, as ultimately it would serve the overall cause of Islam. Like I say, I'm not 100% on this, but this is what I remember from a conversation with a Muslim. many Muslims however say that this seemingly negative exploration of the word is inaccurate, although I understand that there was debate around this word for three days in an Egyptian University wherby it was eventually unanimously decoided that the term indeed mean dissemination, or something to that extent.

The term is also spelt taqija I believe, and I believe some Muslims note that Muhammed himself sanctioned the use of this technique on numerous occasions. I believe such ocacsions are detailed in some of the Hadiths. From memory, I believe one of the occasions was during some conflict with Arab Pagan types, where one of Muhammed's followers was caught by the enemy and asked if he was a Muslim, which he denied, and to prove this he was made to speak ill of Muhammed and Islam; which he complied with. After his release, he went to Muhhamed to apologise for the sins he commited, whereby he was forgiven, as he could say that while he said all these things with his tongue, his heart always retained love for Muhhamed and Allah. I believe he was then told to do exactly the same thing if ever caught again, as ultimately it would serve the overall cause of Islam. Like I say, I'm not 100% on this, but this is what I remember from a conversation with a Muslim. many Muslims however say that this seemingly negative exploration of the word is inaccurate, although I understand that there was debate around this word for three days in an Egyptian University wherby it was eventually unanimously decoided that the term indeed mean dissemination, or something to that extent.

http://www.askshow.com/blog.php?id=70 http://www.think-israel.org/shorrosh.islam.html This is an article that has been reproduced on many websites, as it is quite well-known.

Great link, some amazing stuff on there. Thanks a lot.

It's maybe not the best idea to add numbers to the topic, it might be better to PM them, as you're kind of plastering people's numbers all across the internet this way!

I think people have created bots for Wikipedia, that can be set to automatically make changes etc, so it is possible, but to make changes faster, I think if you have an account,you can look in the history section of the page, and just manually change back to the desired old version from there. If what Lionchild is saying is accurate, perhaps we should start pages and lock them for other Sikh personalities who people would be eager to defame.

Why doesn't someone actually clear it up and make it IMPARTIAL, so its just a factual bibliography, not like the lies it is now, or like a write up to Sant Ji. Just take whats there and neutralise it, as the whole thing is just full of rubbish at the moment, and no-one would argue about that. make sure whats added is factual and then make a note saying you've made it neutral and cleared up the opinions and emotive crap etc.

"Sikhs aren't supposed to even look at a Muslim in any kind of 'that way' manner whatsoever." You kind of lost me on this bit, what did you mean by any kind of 'that way' manner?

Where is the girl who has been "sold" now? Did she just return to tell her parents that and then go back and be "sold"? I think if you're keen to help you need to find out what exactly the situation is first, as there's not much support you can offer anyone if you don't really know the facts, and perhaps if no one is willing to share to that degree, its better to think twice about what you want to do.

I take it that it is only Tarna Dal Nihangs affiliated with Ajit Phoola's Tarna Dal faction that are making any accusations? I believe members of the real Tarna Dal were working alongside Col. Sandhu during the action against Phoola and his cronies.

On the link you have given, the page is simply translating a Rehat-Nama (Desa Singh's), and I believe they translate others too. I don't know if they agree with these points, they are just providing a translation. If there is any questionable material in Gurmukhi/Punjabi sources, it is better a honest translation is given rather than hiding some of the written information, which would then make the translation dishonest and useless. (BTW, I am not aware if the contents of this translation do indeed match what is actually written in the stated Rehatnama, perhaps someone can indicate how accurate an interpretation it is?) I think this is the index for translations http://www.allaboutsikhs.com/rehat/index.htm The translations, I beleive are taken from Sikhs of the Khalsa : History of Khalsa Rahit W.H.Mcleod Oxford Press 2003 In this manner, I don't believe the site have done anything wrong, and maybe some people have failed to look at the source before commenting after the initial post. Some of the questionable points contained within the Rehatnama are actually discussed further if you look at the end of this page http://www.allaboutsikhs.com/rehat/rehat_17.htm Some of his principal points are the following: Desa Singh does indeed uphold caste divisions with the significant exception of eating in the langar. In this regard he is not so far removed from the attitude of the majority of today's Khalsa. Whereas today there is absolute equality on the sacred ground of the gurdwara and the langar, the divisions are generally maintained in matters of marriage. The ban on the hookah is still maintained, and its dangers are extended to cover intoxicants. Intoxicating liquor may, however, be taken before battle. There is no mention of snuff. jhatha meat appears, though its use is granted only reluctantly. It is only permitted with goat meat and then only if the animal is killed well away from a langar. In the langar meat is absolutely banned and one is left with the impression that Desa Singh would gladly proscribe it altogether. Detailed instructions are given for the procedure in a langar. Obviously Desa Singh attached' great importance to eating in a langar. This portion of the rahit-nama (verses 90–118) is attributed to the instructions of Nand Lal. Instructions are also provided for the preparation of karah prasad. This time, however, it is the Guru who gives them. Considerable stress is laid upon the Khalsa Sikh's duty as a warrior. The same applies to the author's comments on the kes (verses 79-85). Little mention is made of tanakhahs. The term kurahit (contrary to the Rahit) appears for the first time in a rahit-nama (verse 121). 20 Desa Singh's comments concerning Muslims are both numerous and extremely vigorous. It is this aspect of the rahit-nama which particularly suggests that it was written at the end of the eighteenth century rather than during the early nineteenth Century. His comments about Hindus are much fewer and less vigorous. Certain varieties of Hindu should be avoided, but the Brahman is not included amongst them. Singhs are counselled to protect both cows and Brahmans. The rahit-nama contains little about rituals. Renunciant Singhs are recognised as legitimate mem­bers of the Khalsa (verse 25). The Khalsa is called upon to celebrate the birthdays of the Gurus (verse 39).

Will defo be there for sure...... Actually, on second thoughts, can't make it, and this was just a lame attempt at a disguised BUMP.

Great post, thanks for sharing

I think you need to go back and check you got this story correct, as there appear to be many mistakes in what you have written. For a start Guru Hargobind Sahib did not give shaheedi, I believe towards the end of his time on Earth, matters became a little more peaceful and he actually devoted more of his time to parrchaar rather than the defensive battles he earlier fought.

I can't see the video, it says its a private video.

Hes either flipping us the bird with both hands or hes grabbing the ladder from his escape helicopter as he laughs like an evil Villain from batman :D Perhaps I can just set the context of this rather unorthodox pose adopted by Narinder Shina, the arms in the air came just after he noticed some Singh's taking photos, and he rejoiced at the fact they were doing so, and even more so when they sugegsted his photos would be put online. At this point, waving both arms in the air above his head in an act of defiance he uttered the words.... "leh, khichlo photoan".... allowing this precise moment in history to be eternalised with the snap of a camera shutter.

http://www.ektaone.com/audio/index.php?q=s...s=pz018&x=0&y=0

Mistakes can become the best things in the world if we learn from them and face up to them. An easy option is often the wrong option for dealing with things. Besides kids get the hell bullied out of the for all sorts of reasons, should we (for example) kill all children through abortion who are likely to be born with slight disbilities for the same reason? You say you've talked about options, what kind of discussion was there, and what are the viable alternatives to abortion in your mind ( if at all any? )

Thats only coz I gave ya a few days head start coz i knew u was slooooooowwwwwwwwwww

WOW!!! My own birthday thread, just a shame I was a few days late in finding it lol. Thanks to all 7 people who posted on time, and to princess, who i'll let off for being late because she is a Canadian and hence a bit slow. Thanks especially to Kandola for the far too flattering description, and moreso for the hukamnama link, as I totally forgot to look it up on the day. Anyway, am old now, and the memory's fading, so can't think of any more to write. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

HAPPY BIRTHDAY BRO!!!!!!!!!! Hope you have/had a great day.

How can i get in contact with nihang major singh ji? thanks 145921[/snapback] Unfortnately the only way I can suggest is in person, as I would be surprised if he's net-savvy lol. A sure bet would be any major festival where Baba Balbir Singh's Budha Dal have presence, with Holla Mohalla the most obvious option.

People are quick to complain and dismiss these large dumallas as the product of ego. Perhaps someone should take the time to ask Nihang Major Singh Ji why he choses to wear the huge dumalla he does. I can assure you he has a reason that I personally find satisfactory, and rather puts to shame some of the comments on this thread.