genie
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Posts posted by genie
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15 minutes ago, puzzled said:
interesting how rajiv gandhis only son rahul gandhi has failed to get married or have kids despite being in his 40s wonder whats going on there
Perhaps it could be karmic justice
19 minutes ago, puzzled said:forcefully cutting someones genitals off is one of the worst crimes you can commit, population is irrelevant in that sense. i rather die than have that done.
would she cut sanjay or rajivs b@lls off ? obviously not
Yeah it's disgusting crime against humanity. Forced sterilization/genital mutilation against human beings is a war crime, its basically genocide in another form. Their forced sterilzation programs targeted mostly the poorer dalit caste communities. I think a film called "the midnights children" has even scene about this.
No wonder gandhi's and congress party were fine with mass murdering the Sikhs because they saw it as a sinister plan to depopulate india's huge population.
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Released Op Blue Star Files Reveal UK May Have Mixed Business and Military Help
From the cache of documents released, it is clear that Britain was pursuing India for several trade and arms deals and made some concessions. What remains unclear is whether these concessions included extending an invisible hand to the military operations in Amritsar.
The Golden Temple in Amritsar. Credit: Reuters
13/Jul/2018Journalist Phil Miller, who unearthed evidence of Britain sending an officer to India to advise Indira Gandhi on Operation Blue Star in 1984, soon enough found the declassified file being recalled by the government. After approaching the information tribunal and the courts under the Freedom of Information Act to make those and other relevant documents public, the court last month ordered certain files to be made public following which 18 documents were released by the UK Cabinet Office – mostly files from the Prime Minister’s Office, while the more detailed Cabinet Office files are still classified.
Only 40 pages have been released, mostly internal memos pertaining to foreign aid, trade and security concerns. There is, however, no mention of the UK’s involvement in what happened in Amritsar.
“The majority of the sensitive papers I wanted to access are still being kept under lock and key. I think many people will be disappointed by the small scale of disclosure in this case after years of legal proceedings,” Miller said.
However, the documents do depict the stark contrast in how the British believed India thought about them and how they themselves viewed India. It also shows the effort put in by the British government during the mid-1980s to secure trade deals.
February 1984
In early 1984, the British were concerned by how slowly India was moving to sign trade deals. The Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) was looking at how they could convince India, with whom they had a “special relationship”.
In an internal memo to William Harding (deputy under-secretary of state for the Americas and Asia), dated February 28, 1984, R.J. O’Neill (assistant under secretary, FCO) tried to explain to his colleagues that Indian politicians did not consider this relationship as important and while British officers felt that India benefitted from colonialisation and so take the credit for India’s post-Independence success, Indians firmly believe “they owe Britain nothing” and were not obliged to sign trade deals that they did not see as beneficial to them.
The memo highlights how India was a proud country and was convinced that it was “a natural leader of the non-aligned movement” with a very good “nose for a bargain”. O’Neill was worried that India looked down on Britain as a “European country in decline” and could easily favour another country and strike similar deals.
O’Neill warns FCO that Britain tends “to expect from India things we are simply not going to get” but must pursue its agenda “with good humour and not much sensitivity” (turn a blind eye to India’s internal issues).
This sets the tone of the Indo-British relationship just prior to Operation Blue Star where FCO feels India has an upper hand in trade negotiations and Britain, at a disadvantage, must offer India more concessions. Miller and the UK Sikh Federation suspect that the concessions came in the form of military advice (and possibly training and resources) during the time the Golden Temple was seized but this cannot be corroborated as no documents around that period have been released.
June 1985
The importance of Westland deal with India is evident during Rajiv Gandhi’s visit to the UK in August 1985. Britain was worried that India would sign a similar deal with French and American competitors as Gandhi had recently visited the two countries and got “an unusually high-level protocol treatment” there.
P.F. Rickett, the private secretary of FCO, wrote to the Prime Minister’s Office with concerns that they would have to perhaps go the extra mile to appease Gandhi. As Gandhi had addressed a joint session of Congress in the US (a very high honour), the British were worried that they would be unable to afford him the same as during that time, the UK parliament was in recess.
More so, since the French President had accorded Gandhi five sessions during his five-day visit, the FCO believed that it was imperative that the British prime minister should at least table two sessions with him during his two days in the UK (October 14-15) and other ministers should be available to meet with him and his delegation at short notice.
While UK was also concerned with Rajiv Gandhi’s security, what was interesting is that they were worried how they could outdo the French who “went out of their way to ensure that their security arrangements were not only effective but highly visible”. It was very important to the British that they “should not appear to do less than the French” and hence it was important to keep Sikh protestors in check so that they did not give the impression that the “British police had been indulgent towards Sikh extremists”.
In another letter, Foreign Secretary Geoffrey Howe wanted police to ban Sikh activists from protesting. His private secretary Leonard Appleyard wrote to the Metropolitan police that this will “also further intensify the Indian government’s resentment against the UK…contracts which would be potentially at risk from a trade boycott amount to some £5 billion”. Post Gandhi’s visit, the deal for 21 Westland 30s was signed for £65 million as against Britain’s aid budget.
From the cache of documents released, it is clear that Britain was pursuing India for several trade and arms deals amounting to billions of pounds and believed that the hesitation of the Indian government to close the deal would be difficult without more concessions. What remains unclear is whether these concessions were simply limited to more visible diplomacy and a subtle “crackdown” on Sikh extremists in the UK or did it also extend as an invisible hand in the military operations in Amritsar? Unless more files are declassified, the answer to this we may never know.
https://thewire.in/diplomacy/released-op-blue-star-files-uk-trade-deals
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Here's an excellent eye opening report released in 2017 by journalist phill miller about the roles and conspiratorial murderous collusion's between margret thatcher and indira gandhi's government in the attack on darbar sahib 1984.
http://www.sikhfeduk.com/assets/files/Sacrificing-Sikhs-Report-2017.pdf
In 2018 they gave newly released classified cabinet files to Journalist Phill Miller after court proceedings and tribunal win, but again they only gave limited access (just 40 pages) of the secret files nothing substantial to what everyone is really waiting for and wanting to know. There is much more yet that needs to be released particularly those that deal with British military advice and assistance.
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41 minutes ago, Jonny101 said:
As for their designs on the Sikhs. Its not Singh Sabha they are trying to reverse or promote Dasam Bani. On the contrary they are encouraging atheism and missionary Soch among the Sikhs. Because they know a Sikh who believes in Dasam Bani is the most dangerous kind of Sikh who is willing to fight and die for Sikhism. But the only Sikh who is not willing to kill or be killed is the missionary types who till date have not given even one Shaheedi for the Panth. It is no coincidence that after the fall of the Kharkoo movement in the mid 1990s we saw the rise of Sikh missionaries, Gurbaksh Kala Afghana and now their ultimate weapon Dhandriwala who is trying to spread atheism and disbelief among Sikhs and discard Dasam Bani. They want that Sikhs should discard the Bani of Guru Gobind Singh ji that turns us into warriors.
Dhadrianwale should be used to convert christians, muslims, hindu's and communist atheist lefties to sikhi. That way if Sikhs get a huge population in india the justified arguments Sikh separatists make in wanting an azad khalistan would be undermined and diminish over time.
Sikh groups should challenge him to use his energies to convert the abrahamics to mainstream Sikhi. That is the big demographic time bomb waiting to destablise punjab and rest of india in near future
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That reminds me the late general jagjit singh aurora is another hero of the kaum.
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11 minutes ago, puzzled said:
She really regretted operation blue star she thought it would shut sikhs down and she would become a hero. I saw this singh interview on TV and he used to work for all india radio I think. He said after the operation she was a completely different woman. She had lost her confidence, was very anxious all the time and lost in thoughts. B4 operation bluestar he said she was a very confident strong headed woman always thought she was right, very confident in what she said or did, but the last time he met her after operation bluestar he said she was a completely different woman.
The emergencey was one of the darkest periods, 100,000s of politicians, activists, protestors and media persons were sent to prison. The media and newspapers were not allowed to write anything negative about her and if they did they were sent to prison. 1000s of sikhs were sent to prison for protesting against the emergencey under sant kartar Singh ji bhindranwale.
On top of that during the emergencey she carried out a sterilisation programme where 100,000s of mostly young men for forcefully sterilised. Young men were picked up from universities, schools, trains, etc and operated on her son sanjay was with her on this.
Yh I heard as well that she got her son sanjay killed. My mum told me that even back then when he died people were saying it was set up.
Her family have millions stashed in foreign banks.
Shocking thing is after all this the indian public voted for her again and she became pm again!
In my opinion indira gandhi didnt think operation blue star would be the huge disaster that it turned out to be. She probably was advised either that sant bhindranwale and dharmi fauj would surrender when the indian army showed up or at the very least the secret commando's she had hidden within the sangat would do the assassination/kidnap job on Sant ji and it would be a limited operation with very minimum casualties. I think those who wanted a greater carnage were the likes of Rajiv and arun gandhi the same ones who were responsible for the brutal anti-sikh genocide all over india after indira's death.
The operation did not go to plan so the Indian army panicked and after it was all over the indian state propaganda machine was in a state of panic trying to justify the motives of the government to the world and to the indian communities aboard. They even hurriedly filmed general brar giving commentary to justify what they did and what weapons they had recovered but we can hear gunshots were still going on while he was giving his hap-hazard interview.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-2nbrjP7Qo
What i think the congress indian establishment initially wanted to do was come out as hero's with the army displaying weapons to the world that they had put there themselves (via R&AW agents) having been recovered from so called "sikh terrorists". Having appeased the hindu votebank for a problem they had created they wanted to capitalise on that for political purposes. What actually happened was a bloodbath not just of Sikh civilians and fighters but their own troops many of them elite commando's. Indian army Sikh soldiers across the country broke ranks rebelled and killed their commanding officers and fought their own side all over indian bases. Huge blunder, very shameful very embarrassing for the indian state and Indian army for generations to come.
Sanjay's death i think could be linked to his brother Rajiv gandhi or Arun gandhi or some other deep state establishment actors we are unaware of so far. Perhaps outside forces like the USSR KGB? who saw sanjay as a threat for not following their communist agenda?..... or perhaps the CIA/M16 whose operatives were known to be working in india against USSR aligned Indian govt. Indira considered sanjay as the apple of her eye his death changed her into a more cold hearted woman so any suggestions she had him killed would be very hard to comprehend. Operation blue star shook her to the core made her paranoid and hoping Sikhs would forgive her by visiting darbar sahib in july 1984 she even delusionaly had dreams of old sikh man protecting her and thus thought that ment her elite Sikh bodyguards would protect her from what was to come.
Anyone with an ounce of intelligence or common sense within a country's establishment would know not attack the centre of a peoples religion. Especially a religion that tends to have very militant followers willing to die for their faith to avenge any attack on it. So those who advised gandhi obviously either had low IQ or wanted the carnage of Sikhs and eventually her dead and out of the way because they if they did any research on Sikh history they would have known Sikhs have proud traditions of revenge/ justice operations that target those leaders who order attacks on Sikhs.
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We know the heros of the 80's and 90s aka the dharmi fauj Sikhs who defended and sacrificed their lives at darbar sahib and all those militant Sikhs in the fields and villages of punjab who fought the oppression of the indian state.
But in terms of non-combatant Sikhs the religious and political figures, who would you name as those who did great service for Sikhi and Sikhs in post- 1947 indian independence times and your reasons why?
My list would include the following:
- The late Sant fateh singh (In taking leadership role in the punjabi suba movement)
- The late Bhai Kapur Singh Sirdar (For his visionary and intellectually guiding light in Sikh affairs)
- The late Ganga singh dhillion (For his efforts in forming friendship with muslim leadership in pakistan allowing Sikhs to send jatha's for kar sewa helping to maintain Sikh shrines and gurdwara's across pakistan, afghanistan,iraq,iran and other parts of the world)
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17 minutes ago, Premi5 said:
Some people say it was from a grudge related to one of her ancestors dating to Gurus' times
That would be strange as it was the sacrifice of Guru Teg Bahadhur Ji in defence of kashmiri pundit brahmins (whom nehru's/indira gandhi's brahmin lineage come from). That prevented total destruction of hinduism in northern india and mass conversions of hindus to islam during auranzebs reign.
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- Popular Post
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I think the sangat forum has overwhelmingly spoken of its disapproval lol
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25 minutes ago, AjeetSingh2019 said:
Right now on national television they're all about we need to get pak occupied Kashmir back.
I have a feeling things will get very worse before they get bad.
Trust me, the kind of things congress did to us would seem like a play if you came to knew the designs the Hindu nationalists have for us. It's well known to them we're a political orphan right now , and that's why the indian govt also thinks thrice before even shooting one bullet at muslim troublemakers. Like in case of jamaatis alleged of spreading coronavirus and the muslims who threw stones at health workers and doctors who came in their localities for test.
But you look at their attitude towards Punjab. They don't bat an eyelid before raining bullets at peaceful protestors of bargari protesting desecration of Guru Granth Sahib. The enemy uses our own faces to kill us. How bad can it get ?
The priority of modi govt is ironically now not corona virus, esp with numbers sky rocketing, but rather gettting back kashmir. Indian news channels 24 7 beat the dead horse that is pakistan and other times <banned word filter activated> abt china. When infact India is in no position to tackle China.
You only have to go through the activities of hindu nationalists on Facebook to see the designs they have for Sikhs. They attack sikhism by saying your gurus worshipped devi devta. Ugardanti bani used to prove guru Gobind Singh was nothing but devi bhakt. They don't say this out of ignorance or love. The agenda is to absorb Sikhs. I have seen the poison in their eyes.
Trust me when I say this and have no doubt whatsoever, the kind of harm they will inflict on sikhi will make Aurangzeb and abdali seem like mild nuisance and indira gandhi as just another angry aunty next door. They want to reverse back the singh sabha movement and once again establish idols in harmandar sahib. The clergy of harmandar sahb will likely be required to wear a tilak janeu and read Gurbani on one side with devi devta idols being worshipped in adjacent. You will be twisted and morphed into something else beyond recognition. You might be laughing at this, others will say "I speak all of this with personal vendetta against Hindus" . No bro, not this time. If you still can't see how perilous the situation is , waheguru meher kare.
I think your right about them wanting to take back all of gilgit and kashmir im sure serious plans are underway to invade or provoke something so they can get it back as a pretext i've already mentioned in another thread i think war is coming soon over kashmir.
And I think you're being very paranoid about the hindu nationalists on social media talking crap about Sikhs..... they can do what they like online but in real world they wouldnt dare go there. You may get a few m0rons try their luck but they know not to try push Sikhs towards militancy against them as they want us as allies against muslims and christians.
The most probably crazy thing they would probably attempt is some kinda cloak and daggar sly tactic of encouraging muslims to attack sikhs and vice versea and then hindus joining in with sikhs to attack muslims. The fascist hindutva types see Sikhs as cannon fodder as the sword arm of hinduism to be used against abrahamic invaders. And if we are not doing that job then they feel we are useless and betraying why we were created in first place in their misguided little minds.
The reason why the indian state rains down bullets on our people is because during most of our protests i've seen on video clips there are armed Sikhs wielding kirpans, swords, spears to attack police lines when they are stopped from progressing further up the roads or protesting any more. Yes the police are heavy handed and corrupt and need to be treated in same manor as they treat the protestors but If our Sikhs really want to protest they should either arm themselves with modern firearms to match the authorities in weaponry or go without any arms at all to show the nation and world its unarmed and non-violent protest.
The indian army and police specifically do not target Sikhs for special treatment although to us it may seem that way, we just need to look what they do to kashmiri muslims and what happened to hindu baba's swami godmen followers over the years. They killed 30+ dhera sacha sauda followers few years back when they protested and rioted. They killed a few ashram swami baba's and followers too in different states. The indian system is targeting everyone who raises their voice or challenges their narrative or authority.
In india its who you know not what you know if you got political power or know powerful politicians you can literally get away with murder. As gurbani says first hope is giving up hope for life then come play the game of love. If Sikhs let fear of death hold them back in life they wont progress in life.
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I'm trying to understand her motivations of what lead her to the path of such death and destruction not just for so many Sikhs but herself. Early on in her life and political career she seemed to have enjoyed a good relationship with the Sikh community but things seemed to have changed around mid 70s to late 80s.
Possible reasons could be below:
- Former BJP MP sumbarimayan alleges the USSR KGB (who was allied with India during the cold war) advised her to targeting and painting Sikhs as terrorists and get the hindu votebank to win elections
- She had an estranged Sikh daughter in law manika gandhi (who was from a Sikh family married to indira's son sanjay gandhi). Rajiv gandhi and arun gandhi hated manika so maybe developed an eminity for Sikhs cos of her and wanted to teach her and her community a lesson.
- Akali Dal used Sikhs in punjab to fill mass jails with peaceful agitations opposing indira gandhi's emergency powers. It is alleged she took this very personally and wanted to teach the akali dal a lesson.
- Being a daughter of Late Prime minister Nehru perhaps she secretly held the same grudges and beliefs her father held about Sikhs that they were a "criminal tribe" when they violently resisted the partition of their homeland Punjab in 1947 and then after the horrors of partition genocide wanted what was promised to them in 1950s.
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It seems to me having read articles and documents that the original operation the British SAS advised was a commando raid operation sundown type of plan but in my analysis when the Dharmi Fauj Singh's defending darbar sahib put up a fierce resistance it lead to most of the Indian special forces commando's getting killed early on in the original alleged British advised SAS plan ......so it went out the window and general brar's and general dyal started to panic clutching at straws what to do next (general brar admits in video interviews he didnt expect such resistance) and therefore ordered more troops and heavy fire power to come in around most probably 3rd June. It is quite clear from correspondence letters the British officials wrote that there was a secret Indian commando team within darbar sahib already around Feb 1984.
An article in the Indian suriya magazine in 1985 alleged a high level R&AW source was dismayed at what his agency was doing by creating another special agency that oversaw and allowed in arm shipments into darbar sahib. It seems quite clear a trap was being set to paint an image the Sikhs there were terrorists and that darbar sahib was some kinda base of terrorism with weapons galore but where did the weapons come from? It was your friendly no morals Indian terrorist R&AW agency the very same terrorist agency that conducted the air india 1985 bombing and blamed it on Sikh separatists in canada.
The question still arises what exactly did the UK know what was happening to the Sikhs of India before 1984 and after? The very fact that Her Majesty's UK Government actually provided a SAS plan to raid our most holiest shrine no matter what the circumstances were is very disturbing and it seems they knew alot of what went on behind the scenes not just merely observing but actively involving themselves mainly it seems due to trade and other bilateral ties. They have a strong case to answer in our 2% minority populations persecution and genocide in 1984 and we should not forget it.
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20 minutes ago, jivan said:
A bit of confusion here...it wasnt Captain Harcharan Singh who passed away in Nov 2019, it was Bhai Veer Singh Ji, the elder brother of Sant Ji. See link for detail
This is confusing..... I think your right. The title to this youtube video got me confused
Here's some links to the relevant information to Sant Ji's brothers and family
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18 hours ago, LookingForMyPath said:
Hi everyone, I’m new to the forum and new to Sikhism. I have questions about sin and forgiveness.
I was reading a bit of the Guru Granth Sahib online and trying to get a feel for it. I saw this:
Page 1152:
ਨਿੰਦਕ ਕਾ ਕਹਿਆ ਕੋਇ ਨ ਮਾਨੈ ॥
निंदक का कहिआ कोइ न मानै ॥
Ninḏak kā kahi▫ā ko▫e na mānai.
No one believes what the slanderer says.
ਨਿੰਦਕ ਝੂਠੁ ਬੋਲਿ ਪਛੁਤਾਨੇ ॥
निंदक झूठु बोलि पछुताने ॥
Ninḏak jẖūṯẖ bol pacẖẖuṯāne.
The slanderer tells lies, and later regrets and repents.
ਹਾਥ ਪਛੋਰਹਿ ਸਿਰੁ ਧਰਨਿ ਲਗਾਹਿ ॥
हाथ पछोरहि सिरु धरनि लगाहि ॥
Hāth pacẖẖorėh sir ḏẖaran lagāhi.
He wrings his hands, and hits his head against the ground.
ਨਿੰਦਕ ਕਉ ਦਈ ਛੋਡੈ ਨਾਹਿ ॥੨॥
निंदक कउ दई छोडै नाहि ॥२॥
Ninḏak ka▫o ḏa▫ī cẖẖodai nāhi. ||2||
The Lord does not forgive the slanderer. ||2||When I saw this I did a search for the word “slander” and there were many other harsh statements towards slanderers, particularly those who slander saints. To me, the above sounds like you’re not forgiven even if you repent? I looked at SikhiWiki and their page on “Ninda” and I still wasn’t sure what to think after reading it.
My first question is, is this sin (slander/slander of a saint) unforgivable, even without repentance?
My 2nd question is, is ANY sin in Sikhism unforgivable, even if you repent?
There's no sin that can not be forgiven by the creator waheguru with sincere repentance and renouncing old bad ways and sinful habits but some people just are beyond help so they will never change their ways and can never be saved in this lifetime. Even a murderer is forgiven and given salvation if we see the example where Guru Nanak Sahib Ji went around saving cannibal murderers and murderous invader king tyrants from wrong paths.
Guru Ka Nindak is one who slanders the Guru. And within our Guru (SGGS Ji) there are many saints. The Guru (who is the messenger of the creator) wont forgive slanderer of saints, because the saint it is the best of society who upholds the goodness of society and if you can slander the saints who teach religious knowledge, get people to do good deeds then there is no hope for you.
Nindak is one who slanders an innocent person, a dodgy person or someone you think is doing bad deeds but not proven then that is also considered a sin but can be forgiven with repentance. Nindya is gossiping and its a human habit to gossip but those who spread false malicious rumours about people are true Nindak's
Slandering is considered one of the worst sin sometimes worse than murder if its against SGGS Ji. If we judge in human society that murder is the worst crime possible and rape the next then in terms of Sikhi slander can be worse than both. As slandering can get innocent people a bad reputation effecting their life for no reason, they can even be killed, innocent communities persecuted and nations destroyed by plunged into war. Just need to look at Sikh history where some miscreants went around whispering things into the rulers ears and our precious Guru's and hero's got martyred and other innocent people got killed for made up rumours and slanders.
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23 minutes ago, puzzled said:
I think they do have the balls but sikhs get in the way and always side with the other people. Rss/shiv sena have been very vilified by sikhs in punjab so whenever there is a clash between rss/shiv sena sikhs will always take the other side even if the other side is in the wrong.
Bhamans these days aren't all weak and skinny like how they used to be with their dhotis! Iv seen some young bhaman lads from the pind that are well built go gym and could put up a fight with any sikh jatt lad. They ain't all skinny and wimpy like they used to be in the past. Bhamans from the shahrs are more nerdy though.
Watch whenever someone decides to drive these Christian's out of pubjab it will most likely be the hindus. Very unlikely sikhs will drive them out.
Sikhs see hindus as the big bad guy and always feel the need to jump in defense of whoever the hindus have beef with. When in reality the abrahamics are a far bigger threat. This auto set mode od jumping to the defense of whoever hindus have beef with could backfire on sikhs.
I was gonna raise the example of shiv sena punjab but stopped short cos they are on the fringes of hindu punjabi society not really mainstream. You'll get a few of this shiv sena clowns who would start beef with Indian punjabi muslims (IPM's) for no reason except to exert their power and influence over muslims in india just as pakistani muslims on the other side of the border do to non-muslims. Sikhs should always stay out of the beef its not our business but our clowns always get involved trying to protect the muslims and it is the muslim that doesnt think twice when it comes to killing non-muslims in any religious conflict when they have enough numbers because other muslims will whip them up into a frenzy using verse from quran and hadiths.
A large proportion of hindu punjabi's tolerate and facilitate Muslim demographic rise in punjab by tolerating and venerating and worshipping fringe drunk drag addict sufi muslim weirdos like laddi shah. Alot of the Hindu punjabi girls often get targeted and groomed by muslims for converion and have muslim kids because being so tolerant. They in alot more worse position than Sikhs cos although some of our clowns protect musilms from the hindu extremists our people still know that we wont tolerate them trying to groom or convert our people. The hindu punjabis dont really have the balls to stop that or challenge that especially aboard. I've known more cases of HP girls and even boys converting to islam to marry their muslim partner than Sikhs.
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47 minutes ago, ChardikalaUK said:
Things are made worse when people like Gurdas Khan, Hans Raj Hans, Satinder Sartaj, Kanwar Grewal, Harshdeep Kaur dress up like muslims and sing Allah Hoo.
Yeah they don't help matters.
Especially low IQ punjabis making hero's out of and even worshiping the likes of this druggie drunk sufi muslim nutter
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23 minutes ago, ChardikalaUK said:
Part of me thinks that Modi is also pro muslim. Without the threat of muslims the Hindus would not be such fervent followers of his. No muslim threat = no votes for BJP.
If it ever came to Nukes the economy of India would be ruined, no one would ever invest in such a country.
The muslim threat is a sure vote winner for Modi's BJP Hindu nationalists, its deeply ingrained into the psyche of the hindu's of never letting themselves being ruled by muslims in india ever again after 800years of being subjudgated under the brutal sword of islam on their necks. Even if congress switched sides and started to go for the hindu vote-bank and pushed forward a narrative of a muslim threat or a muslim take over then congress would most probably always win the elections.
As for the nukes that kinda end game would only happen if pakistan establishment was mad enough to see their nation and population wiped out by using a nuke meaning heavy retaliation from the Indian side. It's must probably these nuke weapons wont ever be used in a war unless it was as a means of last resort and there was a deep existential threat for the country.
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10 minutes ago, ChardikalaUK said:
That's too far fetched, it will never happen. The USA and USSR never used nukes during the cold war. If India takes over Pakistan Kashmir it will just have even more muslims in its country, muslims who would cause more continuous headaches.
Kashmir is a disaster, the muslim majority Kashmir valley should have gone to Pakistan during partition and the Hindu majority Jammu should have gone to India.
Not saying it will end in nuclear conflict but chances are always there however small. Pakistan has always gone by the doctrine of the first strike and nuke blackmail threat to deter india from invading and attacking it. That myth has now been busted no longer india is held back by that threat because it has a leader mad enough to risk an all out nuclear conflict for those elites in the indian establishment if india gets involved in a nuclear exchange and gets depopulated as a result it wont be a bad thing in the eyes. Cos we all know these crazy depopulation war mongering ideologues from history end up doing some crazy things. Pakistan would defiantly not survive in any nuclear war and thats the risk why pakistan can not afford to threat or even use nukes.
As for kashmir being a disaster yes has always been since nehru went to the UN to broker some kind of agreement had he had the balls he should have pushed all the way into kashmir then into pakistani held punjab and before we knew it west pakistan would have been struggled before it had begun. But congress always wanted to play the long game appease and use the muslim vote bank in india to its advantage and to always relie on it to get into power.
The risk for india is taking in more muslim inhabitants which is why they must start planting the pro-india dharmic non-muslim demographic seeds in kashmir now if they want them to bear fruit in the future.
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1 hour ago, ChardikalaUK said:
I doubt there will ever be conventional war between these two nuclear armed states. If there ever was, Pakistan would lose and end up using a nuke and then their would be full out nuclear war.
India has nothing to gain from war, all of the big foreign investors will pull out of India if a war does occur, Pakistan on the other hand has nothing to lose.
India has strategic military aims of why it wants to get into PoK and gilgit:
1) It needs to be there when NATO leaves afghanistan so that he can have land access to afghanistan to sure up the kabul regime in afghanistan
2) It needs to prevent the new chinese silk road and access for the chinese military above in that region.
3) It would boost india's populations morale and credibility as a strong military power willing to take risks and not afraid to take difficult decisions to combat pakistan's covert armed support in kashmir.
4) For Modi even if millions are killed in any conflict wither nuclear or not does not affect his stance because of his deeply held ideological beliefs. He would see that as collateral damage and is crazy enough to risk it all in order to defeat pakistan. Which is why pakistani establishment are worried because they cant threaten to use nukes or blackmail india any more because the moment they use a nuke india would pound pakistan with hydrogen bombs leaving it decimated.
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1 hour ago, imhosingh said:
Obviously you ain't been to the panjab lately. The biggest growing demographic in Panjab is the Muslims. I've been going since the 80s and the number of green flags going up has increased rapidly. All those Punjabi youth who left for other countries have been replaced with migrant workers who are now settling in the panjab
Your right I used to see the sufi muslims the only ones I would really notice here and there with a very low profile. You always had malerkot muslims who been always there way before 1947 but were considered passive and friendly to Sikhs but having read up on the role of black cat police criminals how many of them turned out to be government sponsered indian punjabi muslims who killed sikh youths I have a very different view of them now.
And now the last time I went punjab I witnessed large alot of nomad gujjar muslims wandering around freely with their livestook and alot of small masjids due to muslim migrant low caste laborers from UP and Bihar who created their own little mudbrick masjids to pray in usually with the permission of their Sikh farmer employers or illegally without anyone objecting.
Punjabi Sikhs are definitely too soft being socialist and left wing in punjab, the punjabi hindu's are pretty right wing but got no balls to tackle the christian/muslim demographics properly. They Sikhs of punjab need to get right wing get Sikh nationalist and focus their energies on making the environment hostile for abrahamic adherents or convert them at the very least if they dont want a disaster happening in a decade or so to come.
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15 hours ago, Jonny101 said:
In 1984 the Sikh officers were the traitors not the Sikh soldiers. The Indian government had moved Sikh soldiers far away from Punjab so they would not be able to cause trouble. In 1984 as news came of the attack thousands of common Sikh soldiers and even a few officers had mutineed and tried to find they way back to Punjab but they were ruthlessly stopped. Today those Sikh soldiers are known as Dharmi Faujis. I think a Sikh regiment was even permanently disbanded.
But I agree with the rest of your post. Fact is today's nationalist Hindu does not follow the chivalrous ancient Kshatriya tradition where a warrior lived and died following a code of conduct based on Dharm. Instead today's nationalist Hindu has opted to follow the Maratha example. The Marathas did not follow any Kshatriya tradition. They were no different than the Afghans in their conduct which is why even Hindu rulers preferred the Afghans to the Marathas.
Hindu nationalists like the Sikhs just as long as the Sikhs are obedient and only look after Hindu interests. Once Sikhs look after their own interests then they are regarded as disloyal traitors and separatists who must be killed mercilessly.
You maybe right about the maratha's I haven't read anything of them being ardent hindu's prehaps had they followed their kyshaster roots and hertiage they maybe have defeated abdali and other abrahamic invaders to indian subcontinent.
As for the Sikh soldiers I'm pretty sure the Indian army Sikh soldiers of 13th Sikh regiment along side other non-sikh regiments were used to attack darbar sahib in 1984.
And yes there were many Sikh soldiers who rebelled in their barracks and killed many indian troops when they heard news of the attack on darbar sahib. Some even taking heavy weapons and tanks on route to capture new delhi and attack the indian parliament. But were sadly eventually intercepted after fierce battles between them and their former comrades of the indian army.
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They are hind-ians (aka those who inhabit the ancient land of hind) and are more interested in Hind-ism than Hindu-ism.
What Sikhs failed to realise is after 1947 when the Hindu's found themselves to have a majority rule again after nearly 1000 years they are more interested in defending and preserving what remains of land of hind than actual reviving and practising hinduism and uphold any of its values or teachings. The most militant and ultra nationalistic hindian will do anything including murders, torture and terrorism to ensure India is safeguarded. And the militant of these people are the types who join R&AW operations against their precieved enemies. We can even see some our own Sikhs who been brainwashed to follow this ideology of hindism especially onces who join the indian army they will rather defend india than Sikhi. We see the results of that when some traitor Sikh generals and sikh soldiers took part in the attack on darbar sahib in 1984 and those traitor punjabi Sikh policemen who killed their own Sikh brothers in the fields of punjab in late 80s to early 90s.
Today we see most hindu's do not really believe in their religion, alot of their hindu religious figures the sadhu's, swami's and sants are complaining they are in grave danger of dying out as younger generations dont believe in their paths as the internet is brainwashing the youth into other ideologies. Alot of hindu religious figures are getting caught up in fraud and sexual exploitation scandals and jailed bringing the hindu faith in disrupt. But what is being replaced in young hindu minds is deep sense of nationalism. Anyone who utters a word against india is seen as a heretic, a blasphemer, an anti-national terrorist who wishes no good to their nation. It is their new religion now not hinduism but hind-ism
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Good to see we helping our own for once. It's these kinda charities and organisations that deserve our donations and daswaand contributions to keep the faith and faithful looked after.
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9 hours ago, Ranjeet01 said:
A Christian majority state in Punjab will mean Sikhs and Hindus being driven out.
But it won't always be the overt manner like in the Islamic states.
You will still have the same issues and divisions in society like there currently is.
They will try to breakaway from India but may have backing from the west.
Sikhs will be powerless everywhere, even though we are powerless as a global community but in punjab we still have a little bit of say and power to make a difference but if punjab goes out of our hands then it be very difficult for anyone to look after our best interests.
i think what the punjabi's dont realise is the wider game plan of the church in the west that's funding missionaries to convert people. In my view they want punjab to be a christian safe zone just like the qadiyani ahmediya muslims have a safe zone in indian punjab. The west probably in the end will use Christianity especially the USA bible belt raising funds to launch an covert offensive on pakistan's islamic identity and on hindu india too when they have converted enough numbers. The fake pretext for the western intelligence agencies to help them is that they are being oppressed or persecuted by non-christians.
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What was Indira Gandhi's Personal Beef With Sikhs?
in POLITICS | LIFESTYLE
Posted
Most hindu's who supported her or still support her tend to be ultra nationalist fascists or ignorant low IQ types.
As for the killings of so many male sikh youths in punjab in the 90s it is that kind of gender based violence that leads to families then doing female infanticides because they long for a male heir to safeguard the family, family name and inheritance. in 1947 when so many Sikh males were murdered or killed in fighting with the muslim mobs then naturally alot of the women were left and these vulnerable women either committed suicide, or were captured and raped or kidnapped and converted to islam. There was more women than men in punjab after events of partition so it all had an impact on the social eco system of the community.
The screwed gender ratio demographics then lead to families wanting only sons to look after them fearing another repeat of 1947's or 80/90's type situation so that lead direct collation to female infanticide . So this vicious cycle of gendercides of both sexes experienced in punjab and in the Sikh community is directly linked to hostile environment created by the ruling state power as a brutal means of oppression and state terrorism.