genie

Amazing would like to know more about the history of how it evolved into the khanda one we have now.

We've been complaining about Islamic extremism and its ideology for donkeys years (just need to search the forum) it's only now with the rise of EDL does the British political establishment, the elitist politicians have woken up and feel the need to confront it. I hope they manage to keep in check their security services who have often used a game of deception first covertly recruiting islamic nutcases and then deceptively using them against other governments and civilians (including the uk). And then washing their hands of them after they have used them, all in order to bring in Orwellian legislation that curbs our basic freedoms and human rights in the name of national security.

In regards to Islamic extremism then sure we should tackle them, any form of extremism is not good. However Islamic extremism is the total polar opposite to western liberal hedonism, both are bad in my view. I believe Sikhism has the best path, the middle way. Not liberally insane and not extremely nuts.

Is he right or wrong?I would like to ask him what are British values? And how is some aspects of western British culture better than eastern cultures that promote respect for elders, sense of pride and honour, having self respect, etc which the western way of life / liberalised culture increasingly lacks. Increasingly you can see the more westernised those of asian descent get the more they stray into binge drinking, drug abuse, multiple sexual partners thus increasing sexual diseases among the community, domestic abuse, kids with multiple partners, etc. How are promotional of liberalised values actually helping society? on the contrary since the 80s ive seen a sharp decrease in core values that promote a wholesome good helpful respectful society thanks to hedonistic liberalism. The key, in my view, is balancing western values with core eastern ones that you do not compromise on. A reason why so many white westerners are turning towards eastern faiths like Sikhism is because they see the western society is shallow, individualistic and immoral. I was recently talking to a white women who has converted to Sikhism after years of researching other faiths and she asked me when you see white women dressed to nothing every weekend drunk and legless, what impression do you get? And she is right the impression is not a very good one. Gurbani talks about modesty being fundamental to bettering yourself. When western liberalism promotes the total opposite then we have a conflict of interest.

Cameron: It's time to stop tolerating the Islamic extremists and get immigrants to respect British 'core values' By Jason Groves Last updated at 12:03 PM on 5th February 2011 David Cameron today pledged to make Britain ‘a lot less’ tolerant towards Islamic extremists who whip up hatred against the West. In a major speech on terrorism, the Prime Minister argued that Britain has been too ‘passive’ towards organisations and preachers who poison the minds of young Muslims. Mr Cameron said Britain needs to be less tolerant and more judgemental when faced with ideologies that threaten the country’s basic values. David Cameron and German Chancellor Angela Merkel at the International Conference on Security Policy in Munich today. 'Frankly, we need a lot less of the passive tolerance of recent years and much more active, muscular liberalism,' the Prime Minister said Signalling a major departure from Labour’s softly-softly approach, he suggested that to ‘belong’ in Britain, individuals must sign up to core values such as freedom of speech, the rule of law and democracy. In a barely-concealed attack on the opposition, he will say: ‘It’s time to turn the page on the failed policies of the past.’ The Prime Minister pledged to end all public funding for groups which give succour to extremist views. And he called for action to ban extremists from radicalising young people in universities, prisons and internet chat rooms. At a security conference in Munich today, Mr Cameron said: ‘Frankly, we need a lot less of the passive tolerance of recent years and much more active, muscular liberalism.’ His warning comes just days after Britain’s independent reviewer of anti-terrorism laws, Lord Carlile, said that human rights rulings had made Britain a ‘safe haven’ for suspected foreign terrorists. The Prime Minister also hit out at Labour’s experiment with multiculturalism – calling it a failure. He says society has failed to provide a strong sense of what it means to be British, making it easier for extremists to prey on youngsters seeking something to identify with. He added: ‘We have even tolerated these segregated communities behaving in ways that run counter to our values. FOREIGN SECRETARY WARNS OF CYBER WARS Governments must agree rules for online behaviour to prevent ‘cyber war’ breaking out between states, William Hague warned yesterday. The Foreign Secretary revealed that as recently as last month his department’s IT system had come under attack from a ‘hostile state intelligence agency’. He added that reliance on computer networks to control everything from the supply of electricity to the flow of money had ‘opened up new channels for hostile governments to probe our defences’. Mr Hague told the Munich Security Conference that he was willing to host an international conference in Britain to discuss ‘norms of acceptable behaviour’ in cyberspace. And he called for ‘real political and diplomatic weight’ to be put behind regulations to prevent an online war. ‘So when a white person holds objectionable views – racism, for example – we rightly condemn them. ‘But when equally unacceptable views or practices have come from someone who isn’t white, we’ve been too cautious, frankly even fearful, to stand up to them.’ Mr Cameron pledged to end the state funding of groups that help foster extremist views, even if they are not directly linked to terrorism. He warned that there is a ‘spectrum’ of dangerous groups, ranging from those advocating suicide bomb attacks to those who ‘may reject violence, but who accept various parts of the extremist world view, including real hostility towards western democracy and liberal values’. He said: ‘As evidence emerges about the backgrounds of those convicted of terrorist offences, it is clear that many of them were initially influenced by what some have called “non-violent extremists” and then took those radical beliefs to the next level by embracing violence.’ Shami Chakrabarti, director of civil liberties and human rights campaign group Liberty, said: 'I don't know how the Prime Minister defines multiculturalism, but I agree with every fundamental right and freedom set out in his speech. 'These are the values enshrined in the Human Rights Act which I hope he will now promote rather than denigrate.' Downing Street last night declined to name the groups Mr Cameron is referring to. But controversial organisations which have received state funding in the past include Hizb-ut-Tahrir and the Muslim Council of Britain. Mr Cameron warned fellow European leaders that they cannot tackle terrorism simply by tracking down extremists abroad in countries like Afghanistan and Pakistan and must ‘wake up to what is happening in our own countries’. But the Prime Minister added that events in Egypt – where Muslim protesters are calling for democratic reforms – show that ‘Western values and Islam can be entirely compatible’.

<br /><br /><br />You make valid points, and it is true that we are not as free as we really should be in the west yet we have much more freedom than those in "third world countries". It's human nature when we are living comfortably we do not want to change the status quo or rock the boat but when you feel an impact in your living standards then people start to get frustrated and vent their frustration in protests and demonstrations as has been going on lately in the UK against government cut backs and other parts of europe too. In relation to our own situation back in history of punjab of 80s it was the economy and day to day hardships that forced many into the camp of separatism. When successive Indian governments were discriminating against the Sikhs not giving them jobs not treating crimes against them with an even hand then the masses turned towards the people who would give them justice (ie sant ji). Same thing will happen again if there is economic strife.

We should stand in solidity with the Egyptian people for their human right of self determination and freedom against hypocritically western government backed dictatorship. Our governments in the west should know we cant deal with corrupt regimes any more, they need to be accountable for showing support to governments that use overt and covert state terrorism.

indeed they are cowards but these cowards should not be allowed to get away with their propaganda. We must become pro-active in how we deal with challenges to the panth and those who advocate attacks on the Sikh Khalsa identity.It is about time we started missionary work to open up hinduism and invite hindu's to the Sikh panth. This is what Indian nationalists and brahmin led hindu extremist groups fear most and one thing we should capitalise on and use to our advantage. If we cant or dont want Khalistan, then we should work into making India into a Sikh nation we got a long way to go though Sikhs only number 2% of the Indian population.

http://www.canhindu.com/ Check this website, you find this hindu extremist organisation is pushing forward an agenda of hate against Sikh Canadians and banning of the kirpan. A counter organisation needs to be formed, if these type of hindu's want to go down this road. Exposing examples of hindu terrorism and refuting allegations of air india incident in 1985 was done by Sikh separatists (when most of the evidence points towards the RAW) should be the prime issues to address. Canadian Sikhs really need to up their game ignoring anti-sikh organisations and individuals will not make them go away they need to be exposed and tackled in using all forms of media.

TurbanCampaign, you clearly have your head in the clouds. If you read news stories past and present in regards to radical elements within the muslim community you will see how much they dispise the non-muslims and other ways of life that is not islamic. As we all know the gurdwara committee's are the older generation who are corrupt and out of touch with what the younger sangat feels, ask your average Sikh on the street and they will tell you straight up they neither support EDL or want anything to do with an organisation that has Islamo-fascists within its ranks. What you are doing is trying to create a polarization within our community and forcing them to take sides.

Turbancampaign, can you do the Sikhs a favor and change the name of your campaign or something. You are not representative of the majority of British Sikh community's view. I believe our community neither suppports EDL or your lot, they are neutral. The EDL have a right to protest against islamification of their country and erosion of their heritage and way of life by islamists and their gangs. Do not side with the islamists and give us a bad name as you will turn many of the youth into the hands of the EDL as I know our community would rather side with the english nationalists as patriots of this land than islamo-fascists who hate non-muslims and have infiltrated UAF by the banner of MDL (Muslim Defence League).

The EDL is infiltrated by white nationalist neo-nazi racists who left BNP and combat 18 and now are trying to hijack it for their own agenda against their new target islamo-fascists not only that the EDL has members of MI5 and other covert police state apparatus within it as does the leftest UAF. You got a whole range of nutters, extremists and covert secret police who will and have in many a country (in publicly available documented cases) started violence then melt into the crowd (helped by the state agencies) in turn resulting in police using heavy handed tactics against the protesters. Their objective being try to criminalise people as many people that they can as they are viewed as a threat to the state and status quo. So best advice for our community is not get involved with any of these organisations, only join political organisations that has Sikh interests within their policies.

The Kirpan is fundamental part and parcel of the khalsa uniform, it is the guru given right to bear arms in defence of the faith and fight oppression. So any government which dares to ban it is showing you that they are indulging in oppression against the human right of religious freedom and it is a sign all Sikhs should take seriously. It is high time for Sikhs to become politically active particularly the younger generation.

Intelligence agencies should track social networking sites more closely, the UK's top civil servant has said. Sir Gus O'Donnell told the Iraq inquiry that events in Egypt, where protests against the government are escalating, showed the value of "open source" intelligence as a barometer of opinion. The issue would be examined as part of a review of government intelligence "machinery" due by the summer, he said. But he said any information gathered must, above all, be "reliable". Sir Gus, who has been cabinet secretary and head of the Civil Service since 2005, was questioned about the UK's current intelligence-gathering methods during his evidence to the Chilcot Inquiry into the 2003 Iraq invasion. He was asked whether the Joint Intelligence Committee - which assesses raw material picked up by intelligence officers in the field and presents it to ministers - was able to "pick up" on popular protests organised through Facebook, Twitter and other social media. "When you look at what is happening, as we speak, in Egypt... the use of the internet, the use of Twitter, the way protest movements develop, this is a different world," he said. "We need to be tied in much more to that sort of world." Sir Gus, who attends weekly meetings of the National Security Council established by David Cameron, suggested the UK needed to go a "bit further" in this area to get a fuller picture of fast-moving, volatile situations when they emerge. As well as the current demonstrations in Egypt, he cited the mass protests in Iran following the disputed 2009 presidential election as evidence that the internet has "profoundly changed" how protest movements form. "Individuals can come together in a way that in the past was more difficult," he said. 'Secret stuff' There was a "massive amount" of information that was freely available, Sir Gus stressed, and the government's listening post GCHQ had an important role to play in "bringing this all together". "I have strongly and always been of the view that we probably underestimated open source [intelligence]. By its nature, the secret agencies tend to want to push the secret stuff. One of the questions I will be asking is, are we tapping into all of the best available information that is out there in an open sense?" But the sheer amount of information being passed around placed an even greater burden on ensuring its credibility, he stressed. "The problem is that there is too much information. The issue is being able to find the things you need without being swamped which the things that are irrelevant... and then understanding the reliability of that information." No 10 and the Cabinet Office have launched a review of the government's intelligence machinery to ensure it is working at its "maximum effectiveness". Issues to be looked at include the relationship between the Joint Intelligence Committee and the National Security Council, how intelligence assessment is aligned to strategic security priorities and how to ensure ministers get appropriate intelligence at the right time. The review, to be conducted by the national security adviser and the chairman of the Joint Intelligence Committee, is expected to be completed by the summer with a summary of findings made public. http://www.bbc.co.uk...litics-12311900

Power to the people my sentiments to. The israeli's and western governments are worried though if the muslim brotherhood take over it would change the whole geo political dynamics of the middle east. Just like the iranian revolution which started of as a popular student revolt in 1979 quickly was hijacked by the mullah's and their supporters into something more sinister. Same thing might happen here if they are able to influence the Egyptian military. From 8,000 pro democracy pro human rights and reform demonstrators in earlier days of egyption protests, to 80,000 today after the muslim brotherhood (fundamentalist islamo-fascist party) called on their supporters to come out on the streets.

Waheguru never discriminates who can become a Sikh or not. Only people and their silly politics do. Next time you hear someone say you cant be sikh cos you do not have uncut hair or you do not have right diet cos you eat meat or your dastaar is different shape to mine or your of a weird sect or jatha.... it is they who are not a Sikh they have become entranced in snobbery and egotism that Guru Ji has highlighted many a time.

What do you all make of it? Will islamo-fascists take over? or have the arab people within them to elect a democratic pro-human rights party

Much of what is caused at present times in the name of "militant islam" often has the hand of western backed intelligence agencies at the upper echelons of strategic command. The handlers of the Islamo-fascists terrorists who carry out attacks on innocents often are connected to American NSA - CIA / British MI5 - MI6 / Israeli Mossad/ Saudi Intelligent / Pakistani ISI. These lot have funded the indoctrination of wahaabi and extremist political Islam to fight communist soviets in 80s and even today continue to fund them covertly to serve a purpose as 'useful idiots'. The individual indoctrinised islamic terrorists are but pawns used on a chess board by much sinter and darker political forces. We Sikhs have experienced dark ops used against our community in India by RAW who has created false flag terror ops in the past and attributed them to Khalistan movement. Its all part of the "great game" that has gone on since modern civilisations, the dark black op's in the guise of fighting terror often lead straight back to governments who form and fund proxy war terrorist groups to curb the rights of the citizens and to change the political mood of the country. The important thing for us Sikhs to remember is never to give support to any organisation or government that diverts Sikh interests into someone else's interests as you maybe used as pawns for political or even geo-political things you are totally unaware of. Our Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is our spiritual and temporal master on earth no government or entity. It is the SGGS Ji who we are to draw our political ideology , spiritual guidance / inspiration and ultimate salvation.

We should not par take in either of these organisations EDL or UAF/MDF/Islamo-fascists Sikhs are sovereign people and should only be in organisations that promote Sikhism and stand up for Sikh rights. The British establishment and past government's has harmed Sikh interests since first contact in the 18th century, they conducted illegal wars with the Sikh empire then after annexing the Sikh homeland they recruited Sikhs in the British Indian Army. Using our forefathers manpower to fight for their freedom against nazi tyranny and what was the reward? partition of Sikh homeland and hardly any reference in history books for school kids of the UK to learn of the Sikh contribution to the war effort. There are many things I could list the injustices that Sikhs have had to put up with, but that doesn't mean we are not grateful to be part and parcel of British society or to be born into a land that used to be free and valued civil liberties, which are increasing under threat from the totalitarian authoritarian nature of UK governments since year 2000. Yes we should value and preserve englands history and heritage and traditions of our birth country but we should remember that the enemy of the british people are NOT muslims but the ideology that curbs your fundamental human rights (the right to privacy, right to freedom of speech, right to demonstrate.etc). If these rights are taken away then the people taking away these rights are the enemy of the people, be it islamo-fascists or the "political elite" fascists you can work out who they are yourselves.

Basically this guy is agreeing with dharmic faiths as opposed to abrahamic faiths. Sikhism teaches that God is within us all yes even the evil doers. Time after time the guru ji's have stated the world is a play and we are the puppets of the lord even in the bhagvad geeta (hindu holy book) i believe from what I have read this is also stated. Once we can get our head around this concept we are free from all stresses of life we can begin to see the bigger picture and become observers of the world and appreciate and understand Sikh philosophy more.

There is only One God Truth is His Name He is the Creator He is without fear He is without hate He is timeless and without form He is beyond birth and death, The enlightened one He can be known by The Guru's Grace

I believe the devil is at work here lol a bit of al-taqiya by our shia friends is in play

Sure if you ask the guru (read what is written in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji) you will get the answer. Sikh and you shall find my friend if you want me to give you link to an english translation of SGGS Ji let me know

Your most welcome. Feel free to ask any questions you may have that have not been covered by topics already done in the past in the forum. What you should ask yourself is what you are looking for in life, and do other faiths have an afterlife that sound plausible in your mind. I would put it that Sikhism is more of a way of life and philosophy to train and tune your mind to God consciousness rather than a ritualistic primitive thinking faith.

Brother why dont you accept Sikhism? we have pointed out countless flaws in Islam many a time you just have to search previous threads you will see many a valid point why islam fails as a spiritual faith and a political ideology. Tell us why you wont embrace Sikhism and think Islam is better.