genie

I believe this one.

I believe that our true nature is good, we come from god so we must be good like him.

In gurbani it says that when we find god we merge with him, like a drop of water merges in the ocean so we become like him.

I think once we get rid of kaljug from within us, and stop being affected by kaljug outside us by becoming closer to god, we come to see and understand this no matter how bad we thought we were before.

I believe that also, however I noticed some so called Sikhs are not very forgiving when they find a perceived flaw in a person they are quick to jump on them and blacken their name its human nature I guess but when you reflect back on the faith you do realise people can change for the better. I was thinking about stories of Guru Nanak Dev Ji who would come across criminals and demonic man-eating minded people and yet he was able to change their ways through his spiritual connect and communication.

Do you believe that people are born good or evil? And their soul is either just inherently evil or good.

or do you believe that everyone has the ability to do good and evil and even the most evillest people you may have come across or has walked the earth, could have changed their life around to become a good person?

Dear Genie,

While i respect your views, could i ask a question?

If god is perfect, and made us perfect, why would we need to remove anything?

why don't we consider this 'body' / physical vessel perfect?

And if you pluck/shave/wax, it still comes back? doesn't it mean it belongs there? it possibly has some role to play? (our hair)

Personally i believe that this 'physical' body is not ours , we are the 'light' inside this body, and we use this body to experience the beauty of this world.

I have tried not to use religion here, just my insights, and i am sorry if i have offended anyone.

Lots of love.............

I dont believe God as made us perfect, God alone is perfect. We are born with some advantages and disadvantages in life, based on karma from our past life experiences and what Waheguru wills for us. We are not made perfect we all have flaws but every soul has the chance for salvation and reach sackhand this is my view and Gurbani's view I believe also. Also gurbani doesn't say go out and try to shape your body to conform to society or what others think, Gurbani is saying all this superficial things we humans do does not impress our lord in the end we came from him and we want to go back to him.

So cleasening and purifying of our soul should be our main goal as a human according to Sikh philosophy. Gurbani doesnt disown anyone who cuts their hair or keeps their hair uncut, nor does gurbani disown meat eaters and non-meaters. Just people with vested interests try to push forward their agenda to make people conform in a particular direction to their sect. Our only spiritual guide as Sikhs should be SGGS Ji itself nothing else, it is the most perfect source of teachings humanity has been blessed with.

'disappointment' glad to have helped. Think of these experiences you go through as a test and a learning curb you have to try different strategies to overcome obstacles and haters in life and find ways to not let them distract you from path of Sikhism, love and worship of your creator.

Rab Rakha

Sorry to divert from the thread to the original poster.

Yes i know which quotes you refer to. There are many things in Gurbani which are misquoted by shararti people to advance their manmat.

One such quote is:

kbIr pRIiq iek isau kIey Awn duibDw jwie ]

kabeer preeth eik sio keeeae aan dhubidhhaa jaae ||

Kabeer, when you are in love with the One Lord, duality and alienation depart.

BwvY lWby kys kru BwvY Grir mufwie ]25]

bhaavai laa(n)bae kaes kar bhaavai gharar muddaae ||25||

You may have long hair, or you may shave your head bald. ||25||

This quote is one of the most misquoted quotes from Gurbani. It has been discussed on these forums many times and any doubts people have have been cleared by forum members.

From http://www.sikhism101.com/node/148

"There is one Salokh of Bhagat Kabeer Ji which is often misquoted by mischievous people trying to justify the un-Godly act of shaving or trimming their hair.

ਕਬੀਰ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ਇਕ ਸਿਉ ਕੀਏ ਆਨ ਦੁਬਿਧਾ ਜਾਇ ॥ ਭਾਵੈ ਲਾਂਬੇ ਕੇਸ ਕਰੁ ਭਾਵੈ ਘਰਰਿ ਮੁਡਾਇ ॥੨੫॥

"O Kabeer! When you are in love with the One Lord, duality and alienation depart. You may have long matted hair, or you may shave your head bald. ||25||"

(Ang 1365)

These lines criticize both those who have long matted hair or shave their head completely in order to achieve union with God. In these lines, the question of keeping or not keeping Kesh is not the case. Similarly Guru Ji says:

ਕਬੀਰ ਮਨੁ ਮੂੰਡਿਆ ਨਹੀ ਕੇਸ ਮੁੰਡਾਏ ਕਾਂਇ ॥ ਜੋ ਕਿਛੁ ਕੀਆ ਸੋ ਮਨ ਕੀਆ ਮੂੰਡਾ ਮੂੰਡੁ ਅਜਾਂਇ ॥੧੦੧॥

"O Kabeer! You have not shaved your mind, so why do you shave your head? Whatever is done, is done by the mind; it is useless to shave your head. ||101||"

(Ang 1369)

This salok (couplet) clarifies the above salok."

For more information please search the forums or msg pjs veer ji, N30, etc. as they have alot of knowledge.

And secondly i find it amusing how you believe "Sikhism" and not "khalsaism" The Khalsa wasnt something Guru Gobind Singh whipped out because he was bored. The Khalsa and Sikhi are not 2 different entities like you make them out to be. They are one and the same. The framework for 1699 was laid by Guru Nanak Dev Sahib Ji. Guru Nanak is the founder of the Khalsa. The Khalsa are Sikhs and the Sikhs are the Khalsa, they are one. One becomes a Sikh by taking Amrit. Amrit is a must for each and every person who wants to call him/herself a Sikh as ordered by Guru Gobind Singh in the puratan rehitnamas. Before Khande Bate Da Amrit there was Charn Amrit which was given by the Gurus (Bhai Gurdas Vaaran make this clear as well). Amrit and the Khalsa wasn't something started by Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Everything was started by Guru Nanak Dev Sahib Ji.

IMO you seem to be one of those "Sikhs" that Giani Thakur Singh talks about in his Katha. He met a Sikh who had a picture of Guru Nanak Dev Sahib Ji in his house. Giani Ji said to him "that's a beautiful picture you have, why not buy one of Guru Gobind Singh Ji as well to put beside Guru Nanaks" And the so called sikh responded "i dont beleive in Guru Gobind Singh i only beleive in Guru Nanak because Guru Nanak was "thanda" and Guru Gobind Singh was "garm". Please lose this mentality, Guru Nanak Dev Sahib Ji and Guru Gobind Singh Ji are one and the same, they are the same Jot

Misl shaheedan, you proved my point. When gurbani talks about one who has shaved his head and one who has kept his matted hair uncut yet forgotten their creator it explicts states in my view that it dosent matetr if you haev a bald head or long uncut as long as you worship the creator it doesnt matter what you appear as on the outside because there are many so called hindu Sadhu's, sants, sikhs, muslims, buddhists, chrsitians etc who may look religious on the outside but are very different in their mind and thinking.

Guru Gobind Singh Ji created the Khalsa as a martial order he didnt say all Sikhs must become Khalsa did he? To me Khalsa's arent same as Sikhs they are different entities. When you become baptised you take on a bana and code of conduct with has almost nothing to do with gurbani. Some pseudo-Sikhs want them to be seen as both the same entity yet there is fundamental differences (ie a mainstream Sikh follows guidance and rehit from only the SGGS ji, whereas Khalsa has to think about dasam granth.. has to follow rehit mayada drawn up by SGPC in 1950s). To be a Sikh (student) of the guru (SGGS Ji) it is NOT mandatory first you gotta keep your hair uncut then sit in the congregation of Sikhs and be a follower, anyone who says different is lost and doesnt know the message gurbani is stating time and time again about appearances meaning nothing its all about keeping your creator in your mind at all times. Do you think Guru Ji would turn away hindu or muslim devotee's (first Sikhs ever) of the era cos they didnt have uncut hair?

you genie sahib need to do some reading and learn something about your religion before posting such preposterous comments online. Instead of looking up to Singhs and Singhnia with high jeevans and trying to be the dust of their feet you people just morph Sikhi to suit your own twisted views.

Bhagat Kabeer Ji Guru Granth Sahib Ang 344:

caudis caudh lok mJwir ]

choudhas choudheh lok majhaar ||

On the fourteenth day of the lunar cycle, in the fourteen worlds

rom rom mih bsih murwir ]

rom rom mehi basehi muraar ||

and on each and every hair, the Lord abides.

sq sMqoK kw Drhu iDAwn ]

sath sa(n)thokh kaa dhharahu dhhiaan ||

Center yourself and meditate on truth and contentment.

kQnI kQIAY bRhm igAwn ]15]

kathhanee kathheeai breham giaan ||15||

Speak the speech of God's spiritual wisdom. ||15||

Guru Raam Das Sahib Ji, Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 443

romy roim roim romy mY gurmuiK rwmu iDAwey rwm ]

romae rom rom romae mai guramukh raam dhhiaaeae raam ||

With each and every hair, with each and every hair, as Gurmukh, I meditate on the Lord.

rwm nwmu iDAwey pivqu hoie Awey iqsu rUpu n ryiKAw kweI ]

raam naam dhhiaaeae pavith hoe aaeae this roop n raekhiaa kaaee ||

I meditate on the Lord's Name, and become pure; He has no form or shape.

Guru Nanak Dev Sahib Ji, Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 941

gurmuiK roim roim hir iDAwvY ]

guramukh rom rom har dhhiaavai ||

The Gurmukh meditates on the Lord with every hair of his body.

nwnk gurmuiK swic smwvY ]27]

naanak guramukh saach samaavai ||27||

O Nanak, the Gurmukh merges in Truth. ||27||

Guru Gobind Ji Says: (Reference Budda Dal Gutka Sahib for gurmukhi version of below Bachan)

"bina shasrtran kesang narang bhed jaano. ghe kaan tako kite lai sidano.

ehai mor agiya sun leh piyare. bina teg kesang n devo didaare."

Without weapons and intact hair, consider that individual a sheep. That sheep can be taken anywhere by the ear. Listen to my words Beloveds. Without weaponse and intact hair, I will not give you my darshan.

Now tell me genie where does it mention the hair on the head, beard, female, or male in any of the above shabads or the rehitnama? Please refrain from spreading falsehood in the future. Guru Sahibs Hukam is for a Gursikh, male or female, to keep hair unshorn from the tip of their head to their toes. If you choose to ignore this then its your own loss.

With respect I do not interrupt what you believe in and propergate. I believe in Sikhism not Khalsaism, Sikhism is much bigger than just one martial order. Sikhism allows for difference in opinions and interruptions of scriptures. The scripture quotes you refer to are taken out of context I can give you quotes from gurbani that say the opposite that refer to hindu sadhu's keeping hairs as pointless when they dont even reflect on their creator.

Out of curiosity, do you wear a kara?

Yes i do it reminds me of my Sikh heritage, my faith and oneness of our creator

Funny commentary on what the fascist sentor said

Im not an amridhari or a Keshdari so I cant speak on behalf of those who are but my view is the way i see it in 1699 when the khalsa was formed Guru Ji's orders were for Sikh males to be called Singhs (lions) and sikh women kaurs (princesses). He didnt create "singhni's" he didint explictly state a woman has to keep uncut hair all over her body did he? neither did he say that to men he told them to keep the beard and head on hair uncut. Sikhs were facing a war do or die situation...

unless I see explicit instructions in authentic scripture that states otherwise I think my views on the hair issue for women is valid.

As for your sister making negative comments I think you should tell her straight up if she cant say anything nice then she shouldn't talk to you and you shouldn't make any effort to talk to someone who speaks to you in a negative manor until they realise talking to you like that wont get any response from you.

Hindus in general are not the enemies of Khalistan stupid people like simranjit mann are trying to create hindu-sikh divide and play into the hands of pakistani govt isi to get support. a viable Khalistan can only happen with the support of Hindu's. And Sikh history is filled with alliances between Sikhs and Hindu's who worked together to fight the non-indigenous Islamic invading hordes.

There are 2 possibilities for a viable Khalistan.

1) India union and Pakistan break up through revolutions and pre-1947 borders punjab along with other area's across northern india becomes part of khalistan with the backing of muslims, hindus and Sikhs.

2) Vatican city style Khalistan state is formed within the Indian Union that is autonomous to run its own affairs but doesn't pose a security threat to the Indian Govt and furfils the promise of Nehru who had promised an area of north India where Sikhs could "experience the glow of freedom". This option is more doable and would be compromise win win situation for majority of Indian and Khalistan nationalists.

It's important thread and issue because

1) american republican party plays on anti-non-white anti-non-christian views to get the votes

And bobby jahol and nikki have "converted" to appeal to the fascist racist right wing christian bible heart lands of America. One senator law maker even called her a "raghead" and thought it was a Sikh conspiracy to take over American politics? how bizarre lol

2) These people (like nikki) are a disgrace who use their faith to seek fame and riches and power to get ahead in the world, yet anyone who converts to Sikhism doesnt do so to get popularity but because they know the Sikh faith is humble and pure we do not lure people to our faith with wordly incentives.

The christian missionaries across the globe use the tactic of offering money and worldly rewards to get non-chrsistians to convert their are many cases in punjab this has been going on. One video in youtube you can see how a sardar converted because the Christian preacher was active in offering the guy financial help so he renounced sikhism cut his hair and beard and become a christian. Anyone is free to become what faith they want to but it shows the devious methods being employed to get people to convert, they only convert not out of conviction for the christian faith but for worldly rewards either financial or to try and get ahead in western society with a Christian name rather than fight the prejudice, bias and hatred that a sizable number of westerners have about non-white non-Christian people.

Nikki Haley Reflects More Christian Tone

Nikki Haley, the front runner to become the Republican nominee for Governor of South Carolina has recently changed the language on her website to reflect a more Christian tone. The Brody File is NOT questioning her Christian beliefs at all but rather how the emphasis of her religious language seems to have evolved throughout her political career.

Haley was raised with the Sikh faith and just like President Obama has gone out of her way to make sure people know she is a Christian. Just like Obama in 2008, Haley has a "truth" section on her website to address the question, "Is Nikki Haley a Christian"? In April 2010, this is what the website said:

April 2010:

"Question: Is Nikki a Christian?

Truth: Nikki is a Christian. In her words: 'I believe in the power and grace of Almighty God. I know, and have truly experienced, that with Him all things are possible. I have looked to Him for leadership throughout my career and will continue to do so as governor.

This is what it says now:

June 2010

Question: Is Nikki a Christian?

Truth: In Nikki's words: "My faith in Christ has a profound impact on my daily life and I look to Him for guidance with every decision I make. God has blessed my family in so many ways and my faith in the Lord gives me great strength on a daily basis. Being a Christian is not about words, but about living for Christ every day."

We contacted the Haley campaign and asked them why the website language was changed. Spokesman Tim Pearson told The Brody File the following:

"We are constantly changing our website."

"Nikki is a proud Christian woman. Like millions of others she found Christ early in her adult life and she has been dedicated to her Christian faith since the age of 24. She, her husband, and their two children worship at one church - Mt. Horeb United Methodist Church in Lexington, South Carolina. "

Nikki Haley's had a whirlwind experience the last month or so. She is locked in a four-way battle for the Republican nomination for Governor of South Carolina. After being endorsed by Sarah Palin last month, her poll numbers skyrocketed but then came recent reports of alleged affairs. She has denied they ever happened and is blaming her opponents for peddling the stories and playing dirty politics. It has put Haley squarely in the national spotlight.

The fact that the Haley campaigned changed the wording on the website led The Brody File to do some digging. The Brody File has uncovered documents and details that show an emphasis on her Sikh faith and traditions in 2004 when she was running for the State Legislature (even though she became a Christian 7 years earlier). Now that she's running for Governor of the state, mentions of her Sikh faith are virtually non-existent. A legitimate question must be asked: After seeing how the faith issue hurt Mitt Romney and damaged Barack Obama to some extent as well, is Haley making a political decision by playing up her Christian faith (just like Obama did) and LOSING the Sikh emphasis?

Haley was born in South Carolina as "Nikki Randhawa, the daughter of Indian Punjabi immigrants and was raised with the Sikh faith. (Read more about Sikhism here) Her conversion story begins in 1997. (You can listen to her discuss that here.

In 2004, (seven years after becoming a Christian) she and her family were still attending Sikh Temples as well as their Methodist Church. In 2004, she was running for the State Legislature and she was quoted back then as saying, "I was born and raised with the Sikh faith, my husband and I were married in the Methodist Church, our children have been baptized in the Methodist Church, and currently we attend both."

Her 2004 campaign played up her Sikh upbringing and faith saying that "Nikki was proudly raised with her Indian traditions" No mention that she's a Christian. See below. (And click on the picture for a larger view)

As a matter of fact, newspapers at the time trumpeted the fact that Haley was "The First Member Of The Sikh Religion To Join A State Legislature In The United States." One India newspaper wrote that, "She Did Not Hide The Fact That She Was Not A Christian And Regularly Attended Sikh Religious Services."
 A project at Harvard University in 2006 refers to her as a, "Sikh woman."

When asked if Haley currently attends Sikh services, Haley's spokesman Tim Pearson tells The Brody File:

"She attends Sikh services once or twice a year in respect for her family."

"Like millions of others, she honors her mother and her father and has great respect for their faith and the way that she was raised. Her faith in Christ guides her throughout her personal, professional, and public life, just as it has for many years."

The bottom line: Haley and the Sikh faith were an important part of her storyline…back in 2004. But today there are no Sikh references are on her website or campaign literature. And that website language has become more overtly Christian.

When asked to specifically address why Sikh references were more overt in 2004 than in 2010, Pearson didn't provide us with an answer to that question.

http://blogs.cbn.com/thebrodyfile/archive/2010/06/03/nikki-haley-reflects-more-christian-tone.aspx

as all of u knw that some people who are beginners to sikhi go crazy when they see activities of high awastha people. Here is an example of those kind of people who iploaded this video on youtube.

also some poor kids think that they know everything and they are providing funny logic against dasam grath sahib. Also they are talking about women in Sikhism.

I think you all should watch these 2 videos and we should discuss about this new rapid growing trend which is really serious because these people are just brainwashing shardhawan beginners and spreading hate.

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=x664rUwVEMg

I've never seen this activity before but I can take an educated guess that to get a spiritual "high" these people partaking in motions rocking their head back and forth or side to side increasing the flow of blood to the brain giving a euphoric experience similar to having taken some sort of mild hallucinating drug. I can the the logic behind such movements but this isnt Sikhism as I know it or what gurbani teachs this is more of an innovation by various sects. I wouldnt say its a bad thing in Sikhism we should be open enough to allow room for various sects to have their methods to get closer to Waheguru. Each to their own i say.

What do you think about atheists ?

If they ask you to prove god's existence , then what would you do ?

The "big bang" theory. Something cant come out of nothing but thats exactly what science expects you to think. Even scientists cant explain was was there before big bang they say charged supergases or something along that line but if thats the case what was before that? and so forth... so there has to be a conscious supreme being whose created the vast universe

Indian govt can easily resolve the issue by giving vatican city style status to amritsar making it a sovereign Sikh nation state within the Indian union or an area of land in punjab/haryana where the new state will be called Khalistan, it may not please everyone but at least it would help to resolve this long standing issue of self determination.

Living out automatically in my eyes puts the girl in the category of the "undesirable loose women"

i think that is a highly judgemental and unfair stereotype.

I do not know one girl who has lived out yet never indulged in filth (ie had guys back at her place or went to guys flats).

you havent met me. or about 100 other bibia i know.

It would be very hard to trust someone whose lived out, though they maybe some women who are totally chaste and are clean the vast majority who lived out unfortunately always get influenced to partake in bad things usually because of sheer boredom.

i agree that a large number of girls who live out do some extremely stupid things, but just be careful not to tar everyone with the same brush. some of us know how to behave with dignity and self respect.

Like I said theres probably very few who actually are decent and have their self-respect intact while having lived out those are very rare though. I know one dastaar wearing singhni who used to come on these forums dont know if she still does, revealed she had slept with a non-sikh black guy. And I would ask which decent Sikh guy would even look at such a filthy woman? Women forget that their body is more scared than a guys as they will be mothers to future generations of Sikhs if its defiled by various guys especially non-sikh guys what sort of mother will she be? what sort of standards does she have?

LOL @ genie you have trust issues my friend.

every saint has a past and every sinner has a future.

Yup trust is very hard especially these days trusting girls when it comes to forming a relationship it takes a long time for me. I don't want short term flings I want to settle down with true Kaur who I will be proud to call my wife and eventually mother to my kids and I'm guessing women want the same but in a guy. A decent Singh who is her soldier/protector, her only lover, provider and good father to her kids.

lol...the scenarios was such that...

they can set as many criteria they want , but they forget their destiny was written even before they were born :lol:

There is a paradoxical duality here where we are masters of our own destiny (free will given by God) yet at the same time we are not (kismet).

I am starting University this year, Mahraj di kirpa nal i haven't commited sumthing with the opposite sex that i regret,, but as i get older it seems to get harder, Naturally we are attracted to the opposite sex, and the other thing is the environment at Uni, girls and guys hang out, go to eachothers places, they are way to open and personal, i just see so much room to fall,

I kno ppl have gone thru Uni and they have kept their high moral character, but i feel like kaam is being thrown in my face, and i am being tempted, Its scary i dont want my Preeti(Love) with Guru Sahib to break off and fall into mayas trap,

I dunno how many times iv been born and i obvously made a mistake thats why i am here again, i feel i have very low confidence,

But it Pisses me off nowadays when i guy trys gettin close to me, i wouldnt be a female dog about it, unless they really do sumthing stupid,

I hate it, Guys will say Fateh and they totally dont look at me like a sister, they say Bhanji but the look in their eyes is grose, I am not saying i can read minds, but i am very intuitive, so when i am in balance i am able to read ppl, Not all guys are bad

The thing is when u start hanging out with ppl at uni that hang out with guys u start to think its okay to flirt this that, im scared, i dont want to loose this life to this stupid crap

It's natural to be attracted to opposite gender, my advice would be find yourself a decent singh or singhs you can form a good solid friendship with. Eventually one you will see as a potential husband and him see you as a wife. No one likes to be single these days but if you keep yourself around good sangat and decent guys who dont have bad intentions and know you would not do any physical stuff before marriage then you would be on the right path. I know quite a few hijabi wearing muslim girls and even they have or want bf's though they tell me they always try to make sure the guy is a muslim, that he is potential husband type (family will agree if marriage is on cards) and they wont have sex before marriage.

9. Never lived out

can i ask why?

what if she lived out, but never had a boyfriend, never went clubbing, never drank alcohol, basically never did any "putteh kam" and still knew how to live within a family environment?

not everyone who lives out at uni wants to go wild. some people do it because they NEED sangat desperately and want to get a great education at the same time.

Living out automatically in my eyes puts the girl in the category of the "undesirable loose women" I do not know one girl who has lived out yet never indulged in filth (ie had guys back at her place or went to guys flats). It would be very hard to trust someone whose lived out, though they maybe some women who are totally chaste and are clean the vast majority who lived out unfortunately always get influenced to partake in bad things usually because of sheer boredom.

1. Good knowledge in Sikhism and Sikh history

2. Decent personality (caring, loving, honest, trusthworthy, patient, etc)

3. Virginity (i would respect and value a woman more who saved herself just for me)

4. Attractive to me (doesnt matter to me if others dont feel the same about her)

5. Educated to college or degree level

6. Can cook good Indian food

7. Has no financial debts

8. Comes from good decent family

9. Never lived out

10. Wont put her friends before me, in terms of priority.

11. Keeps herself in shape, fit and healthy,

etc

Khalsa Raj is not fascism nor is supporting a nation state based on it. Anyone who thinks supporting Khalistan is fascism clearly doesnt know the meaning of the word. But lets leave that aside

South Asian/Desi Muslims and Sikhs share alot of common cultural heritage and theological teachings. It's a shame some people (mostly from the muslim side) are more athiesticly tribalists (muslim by name) than truly humanitarian religiously inclined. Though we too have a fair share of athiest tribalists (Sikh by name) who are see anything connected to Islam as inherently evil and must be opposed and countered.

There are so many reasons to this question that can be right and all of them could be wrong, so this thread will go no where.

Muslims brainwash Sikh woman emotionally and then get them pregenant because now the girl can't take off. Muslims are all about having the most people in their religion and nothing more. They will use anyway to decieve a naive and so called educated girl. She could be christian, hindu, Sikh, or no religion and they will make her into a baby making machine and once their done with her, then throw her to the road. The Koran allows them to lie to a non-muslim and allows Muslim to beat their wives, and allows them to have multiple wives. There are probably only 1% of Muslims that are actually good, rest of them are fanatics looking forward to beat, rape, and kill to populate the world with more Muslims.

I agree with much of that. Things will only change when women themselves say no they wont be used and abused but at moment they are willing to let their fellow sisters in faith be treated with contempt.

I used to think Kauregous was going to make a big changes and raise awareness amoung the females about their futures, teach them their faith. But evidently it has failed, it is lilly liberal organisation that doesnt cater for girls of the facebook generation, who have broadband/net access. There is alot of bad influences on the net and media. 8years ago the problem was small as females werent exposed to the dangers as much, as most ppl didnt have 24 hours always on net connections, now its very easy to contact an impressionable naive girl and expose her to bad influences and work on her to get her to have relationship then over time convert her, muslims call this dawah it is a duty for all muslims to spread and propagate the faith be it overtly or covertly.

There needs to be another organisation specifically created with the task of having a strong agenda to expose the consequences of what these guys do to not only to non-muslim girls but muslim girls also. Ive read countless stories of these non-practising muslim desi guys taking virginity of a desi muslim girl pretending he will marry her then telling her nah my family wants me to get married within the family from a girl back home (ie cusin sister in pakistan). Strong agenda should be set so that females remember their virginity is something reserved only for their Sikh husband. This way no Tom, Derek or Harry can just come along and try it on for a few mins of fun and leaving the girl with life time of regret.

Girls are more likely to listen to other females in these situations so if there are no strong Sikh women who are willing to help mentor and guide their fellow sisters in faith then we might aswell just allow this abuse to carry on.

Hey guys I know what lets blame this problem all on the Punjabi Sikh guys cos it must be them who force these poor girls to run off to non-Sikh guys right? lol

and lets blame all the Sikh girls for all those punjabi sikh guys who date muslim girls undercover and some even marrying them. Surely it must be the nagging Sikh girls, overly manly, over weight, drunk in clubs, sleeping around types that put off those Sikh guys who eventually ran off with muslim girls?

I find it hilarious that we look to blame the opposite gender for the wrongs of those of one gender. Sheer stupidity and ignorant.

No one else is to blame but the girls and guys themselves who run off with non-Sikhs they turn their own back on the faith and their parents and the community because they are looking for short term fun, or attention/affection, or lust/sex.

However having said that lets face it its much easier to get a non-muslim girl into bed than a muslim girl because muslim parents of pakistani/bengali/indian ethnicity do not give as much freedom to their girls as the non-muslim (of same ethnicity) families do. So you see these girls go off to uni, go clubs and sleep around...parents dont know jack what goes on... also the facebook generation is to blame. its very easy to add/message a girl if you have a clean shaven face you look cute you get attention because everyone is shallow particular young impressionable girls first thing they look at is looks first and personality second.

The solution is simple, educate your females, instil in them a sense of pride and honour where they place love for parents, Sikhism and Waheguru above all. The females of Sikhism have totally failed their fellow sisters in faith. This needs to change, you have khalsa's only interested in Khalsa's what about the rest of the Sikhs? 80% of Sikhs are sahejdhari's non-baptised totally without any organisation to bring them into the faith and empower them to live a Sikh lifestyle and in process spread Sikhism.