Jonny101

True, which is why I mentioned them in particular because they are not associated with any select group/sampradah plus they are the authoritative scholars of the Singh Sabha to whom these heretics pretend to follow.

OSingh you have made valid points. When countering these heretics it is important that one not use the words of Sikh scholars associated with a particular group or sampradah. Even though in my view Sant Gurbachan Singh Bhindranwalay and BSB Randhir SIngh Jee's words are authoritative enough, but these heretics do not. They only beleive in the words of Singh Sabha scholars as being authoritative i.e. Prof Sahib Singh, Prof Gurmukh Singh, Giani Ditt Singh and to a lesser extent Bhai Veer Singh Jee. In fact these modern missionaries are even contradicting Sikh missionary collage's own literature. While Sikh missionary collage never really believed in all of Sri Dasam Granth but they didn't discard it all and certainly not Dasam Bani including in the Nitnem. Prof Sahib Singh Jee has written a lot of books on Sikhism. I have read many of them and clearly Prof sahib Singh Jee believes in Dasam Granth, Sikh traditions, Naam Simran(he has even written a book on the subject of Naam Simran). When countering them it is best to use Gurbani translations done by Prof Sahib Singh Jee or in accordance to Gurbani Viakaran. SRM from Akal Takht Sahib is also a good source since these heretics pretend to be upholding the Panthic SRM which is a lie since the SRM promoted Amritvela, Naam Simran, Dasam Banis and other Sikh traditions.

In my view the best way to counter them is using their own words against them. What I mean by that is, on one hand they say that they are followers of Singh Sabha movement and follow the words of it's writers. So concerned Gursikhs should make youtube videos or write articles in which on one hand they show what Dhunda is saying then show what Singh Sabha writers like Prof Sahib Singh, Prof Gurmukh Singh, Giani Ditt Singh say on the same subject because Prof Sahib Singh, Prof Gurmukh Singh, Giani Ditt Singh believed in Dasam Granth, they believed in Naam and many of the Sikh traditions that these heretic-Kala Afghanis are discarding. One may have noticed how these Kala Afghanis like to use the name of Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwalay in their videos and writings. Sant Jee would also be a good point of reference since we know that Sant jee and these Kala Afghanis are worlds apart in regards to Sikhi.

I don't think 3ho is anti Sikh but I do beleive that they are misguided.

I also know of a Sikh girl from a prominent Sikh family in the US. The parents are well respected, her brother(keshadari) is a lawyer working for Sikh rights and the girl goes off and marries a Muslim guy. It's not just untraditional Sikh girls who go clubbing that are the problem, personally I don't give a second thought of such girls, but apneean who come from traditional keshadhari families who have name and fame within the community that are preferring to marry out and that is really screwed up. Even if they don't marry out, they will almost always end up marrying a clean shaven Sikh boy. It's not hard seeing matrimonial adds from Sikh girls belonging to traditional families where they ask for a guy should be traditional, respect family values, religious, spiritual and also clean shaven. So in other words, they want a clean shaven boy who has all the qualities of an Amritdari boy, yet is clean shaven! what the...

Sikhs in UP (in fact all of India) should try their best to get gun licenses. They don't want to be caught unprepared if something happens again. All these beabdis of the sroops of SGGSJ is not a good sign. Hope no one was killed in this recent clash.

Sarabjit Singh Dunda is misleading the sangat. He talks of Sukha Singh Mehtab Singh, but if you read Sikh missionary collage's own book on Dasam Granth, "Dasam Granth Bare" they said that it was Sukha Singh and Mehtab Singh who insisted that all of the Dasam Granth be compiled into a single granth if their mission to punish Massa Rangar is successful, which means they supported Dasam Granth. And now Sarabjit Singh Dunda is contradicting Sikh missionary's own literature by using the name of Sukha Singh in his imaginary talk with Massa Rangar. Secondly, he implies that Kirtanis do kirtan of Charitro Pakyan which is false. I have yet to see someone doing Kirtan of Charitro Pakyan. In fact I have never even seen anyone doing Katha of CP. Before these Kala Afghanis started their anti Dasam Granth parchar, hardly anyone used to read Dasam Granth. Even Dasam Granth believing Sikhs hardly ever read Dasam Granth, But after these heretics started their heretic parchar, they have actually made many Sikhs into hardcore Dasam Granth supporters. While Sikh youth has largely become patits(hair cutters) these Bevakoofs are diverting the attention of the Sikhs from pressing issues that really effect the Panth. They have divided the Panth along pro Dasam Granth and Anti Dasam granth lines when the entire Panth should focus their combined energy on doing Parchar to the youth who are increasingly going away from Sikh Dharm by cutting hairs, doing drugs. There was a time when Sikh missionaries were not that bad. Their parcharaks and Kathakars were actually quite good. Originally they were largely influenced by Prof Sahib Singh and the Singh Sabha movement. But since the rise of the Kala Afghani movement, they have moved away from their original Singh Sabha/Sahib Singh school of thought and have now been very highly influenced by the Kala Afghanis. The influence of the Kala Afghanist mindset has been so great that now you can hardly distinguish between a Kala Afghani and a Sikh missionary.

Yes, if any Singh/Kaur is going to India or any Gursikh in India reading this please take pictures of that Gutka so we can see the Rehras Sahib. and while there please also take pictures of the Manglacharans.

Darshan Lal and his kala afghani followers are just full of horse shyt. They have absolutely no real vidhvaans. They are mostly all 10th grade pass and have never seen the gates of a university yet they call each other as professor. Darshan Lal like others like him have shown their lack of knowledge of Gurmat and Sikh traditions. The only real scholar they really had was Sardar Rattan Singh Jaggi but even he later on accepted Dasam granth as bani. So now these heretics have no one to claim as a vidvaan.

It may have been experimented but it certainly was not the norm even back then. When the Brits took over, they had originally wanted to introduce helmets to the newly formed Sikh regiments which the Sikh soldiers did not approve of so the proposal was dropped. Sikh soldiers were the only soldiers of the British army who were exempt from wearing helmets. As you can see from the existing helmets from the time of Ranjit Singh's army, those helmets have extravagant designs with gold which shows it's original owner must have been an aristocrat Sirdar. The size of those helmets also shows that they were made in such a way so as to fit right on top of the head. The Dastar was tied around not surprisingly because a dastar would have reinforced the helmet with added protection. This picture shows Hari Singh Nalwa wearing a helmet with a turban tied around it http://www.esikhs.co...gh_nalwa_13.jpg I don't know how old this picture is but I am showing it to show you (roughly) what I mean.

The point about the helmet with the joora on top. It should also be noted that even though the helmet was used by wealthy Sikh aristocrats but on top of the helmet a Dastar was still worn. It was never meant to replace a dastar. It was placed directly on top of the head and afterward a Dastar was tied. Regardless, even this helmet was the exception rather then the norm.

That may be partly true, but before Sikhism why weren't those same rural folks fighting the tough central Asian Pathans and Turks with the Pathans were openly kidnapping Punjabi rural women and selling them in the Bazars for Takkas? We very often like to feel that it was us who were behind all the victories when the truth of the matter is it was Guru Jee's blessings. Without his kirpa we cannot get victory or gain an honourable Shaheedi. Anything good in us(Sikhs) is because of him and anything bad or weak in us is because of janam janam di mail in our mind. Although Sikhs have been brave through out Sikh history, even today we can hear of stories of bravery of Sikh soldiers in the Indian army during the indo pak wars or the bravery of the Sikh Khadkoos. But the best and truest of the Sikhs were of the Guru period. After the Guru period every subsequent generation many innovations and deviations crept into the Sikh mindset and even Sikh maryadha. So much so that by the time of Maharaja Ranjit Singh's period Sikhs who although were a brave people, but began to be influenced by innovations and deviations of the people surrounding them. Torturing POWs (if it's true) would be proof of the influence of innovations and deviations because a few generations before that during the time of Qazi Noor Mohammad Sikhs would never have done such a thing. If you see the SIkhs of today, they are even worse then the Sikhs of Maharaja Ranjit Singh's period since now the Sikh mindset is polluted with even more innovations and deviations such as western culture and bollywood etc. besides being influenced by other religions/cultures. Today if a Sikh soldier gets a chance would probably have no moral problem in raping women. Not surprising since there is a 300 year gap between today's degraded Sikh and the pure Sikh of the first Khalsa generation who took Amrit from Guru Gobind Singh Jee. We need to emulate the Sikhs of the 1st Khalsa generation not the average Sikhs of Maharaja Ranjit Singh period since every subsequent generation gets degraded and polluted by external influences.

Question about the Gutka. Which Gurdwara is it located in? Maybe some Gursikhs here or from India can go there and verify this Gutka by taking pictures of that Gutka to see the Rehras Sahib and since OSingh brought up the topic even take pictures of the Mangalcharans.

Baba Deep Singh Jee was a Nihang right? then wouldn't he have read the Nihang rehras sahib? compared to which the Taksali one is very short. In fact, the Nihang one is the longest of all the rehras sahibs. So you see why using term sampooran is so wrong because everyone thinks the one they do is sampooran.

Which rehras sahib is sampooran? currently we have many and all claim to be sampooran. So I think the term "sampooran" for any particular version of rehras sahib is the wrong term to use.

How much do they need? and what is there project? is it some kind of documentary?

Looks good. Wish more Sikh history can be shown this way.

What a shameless chamcha. For a Sardar to do so much chaaploosi is really disgraceful. I've always found Sidhu to be very fake. A real politician is what he is.

Guru Jee will not come back in human form since Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee is already there. But I beleive that whenever Panth is down, to bring Panth back into Chardikala, Guru Jee sends such Gursikhs who rejuvenate the Panth. Sant Jarnail Singh Jee Bhindranwalay was such a Gursikh. Now we should pray to Guru Jee to send another great soul for the sake of his Panth because right now we very badly need it.

Other than Guru Nanak Dev Jee whose body was not found during the last moments, how were the other Guru's body disposed of? What method did the Gurus use when disposing of the bodies of the relations within their own families? cremation. Look at all the Sikh saints since the start, cremation has always been the method of choice. Other than special cases, Sikhs have always followed the cremation method of disposing the body. Special cases being for soldiers of post Punjab annexation where the British(Christians) started to bury Indian soldiers including soldiers who did not traditionally use burial as a means of disposing the body. This is a Christian and Muslim tradition. Sikhs have their own traditions.

6 billion? but we are only talking about Sikhs here. There are only about 20 million Sikhs. If cremation is so wrong, were our Gurus, Shaheeds, and Sikhs for the last 500 years all wrong for cremating their bodies? I don't think so and it is their example a Sikh should try to follow. The Gurus were infallible. Whatever they did we need to accept that instead of following new age mat. I'm not a tree hugger. So driving a car or using a computer is not bothersome to me. But for those who get an itch in the rear end because cremation of their body will some how cause a worldwide environmental disaster then they should be the first to stop using automobiles and computers instead of waiting for death to do their part in helping the environment. Amish lifestyle should seem very attractive do the anti cremation Sikhs.

What the GOI does we all know. But why are we so weak that we cannot just say a simple no to alcohol? During the puraatan times the same circumstances were there too, but back then Sikhs were morally strong and that strength came from Rehet and Naam/Gurbani. Now Sikhs are morally weak and I don't think it is just a coincident that we also happen to be ignoring rehet/Amrit plus Gurbani and Nam Simran. Sikh Panth can only grow stronger as we get stronger in our rehet and read more Bani and do more Simran. Once we are strong on that front no amount of alcohol or women will be able to break our resolve. We will be as strong as puraatan Singhs.

No, are you?

My "Sanatan Mat"?? wow okay Do you even know what tradition is? it is a custom that has been practiced from generation to generation. I don't know of any Sikh for the last 500 years who has frozen themselves or buried themselves. But I know plenty including Gurus, Sikh Shaheeds, Saints who have had their bodies cremated. But hey, if you want to mix your Christian or new age beliefs with Sikhism then by all means go ahead but please do not try to misguide innocent Sikhs here with your modern views.

Singh559 Jee, alcoholism has been a problem with Sikhs even before 1947. I remember reading an account of an Englishman who visited Maharaja Ranjit Singh during an occasion. He mentioned how the Maharaja and other Sikh Sardars were drinking heavily. How long are we going to blame everything on the Hindus? we need to own up to our problems and take responsibility. Pointing the finger at others, we need to first look at the 3 fingers pointing back at us. Sidhi gall hai, if Sikhs don't go back to the basics i.e. Amrit Chanka and keeping rehet we can expect more of this crap happening to the Sikhs. How many Sikhs do you see waking up at Amritvela? very few. You'll be surprised to see that many Amritdharis don't even read their Nitnem everyday! how disgraceful is that! But all we do is point the fingers at others when the problem and fault is clearly with us.