JalandharSher

Regarding Jalandersher’s references to Santji being the blame for the Genocide that the Indian Army/ Govt/Punjab Police carried out on civilians is just basede on the prejudices and theories that are pushed around in some pro-Congress/Ramgharia circles. I certainly grew up on those theories until I spent time and interacted with Mahapurshs and Gursikhs who gave me more Gian than the pardaan at the Ramgharia Gurdwara I grew up in did. My opinions are not based on prejudices, as i have no need for any. My opinions are based on facts. Historical facts. Did he use the holiest place for sikhs as a military garrison? Yes. Did that directly result in the slaughter of hundreds who had done nothing wrong but to go the gurswara on a gurpbrub? yes. Where is the prejudice here? It's a sad fact some of Ramgharia Gurdwaras today promote meat and alcohol in halls run and governed by the Gurdwara Committee. They even call them Ramgharia Halls. It's something even you Jalendersher cannot deny. If you want proof ring up the committee offices of Leeds, Coventry, Woolwich, Small Heath and book the hall for a party. How come we are not talking about TOBACCO here too? Like some other imbeciles here tried to imply earlier that this is allowed by gurdwaras too? I am not advocating the serving of meat and alcohol. Lets be clear. Its your collective basis for debate that disgusts me. Your argument being that it happens because they are Ramgharia. And how about you? Are you vegetarian? Tee total? And you talk of heavy drinking meat events after weddings in the gurdwara - who has the most raucous events i.e. booze flowing, majority meat lucnhes, followed by a couple of fights int he car park? Jatts I think you will find. and YOU cannot deny that. Smacks of ignorance and hypocrisy.

"I have seen with my own eyes a picture of Vishkarma in Woolwich Ramgharia." If you would be so kind as to post a photo of this, in your guru ka seva, we might be able to take this seriously..................................... until hen I can only assume that these are delusions based on the lack of oxygen available in YOUR kennel...............

Ok, so this post I will treat with some respect, based on the fact that it is based on a rational argument, rather than caste bias or shocking ignorance based on the use of words such as "kennels". That said, you have no idea what I have read, and a wild assumption to the contrary is pretty ignorant. So what you are saying is that even if it is not in SGGS, it is the interpretation that is "known". But what makes you think that YOUR interpretation is more correct rather than anyone else's? And what makes you more knowledgeable? Maharaja Ranjit singh had a number of wives, some of whom were not even sikh, and he built mandhirs, is this beadbi? Was he a blasphemous sikh? Was he not something for the sikh religion to be proud of? If not, why not? If so, this is contrary to your logic. Akbar took langar on the floor in guru's house - correct. But what was the teaching of guru nanak behind it? It was that no matter who, all people taking langar will be at an equal level. Spin it how you want, that is what Aad Guru teaches. "Guru taught Sikhs to be humble always, and your post is quite full of ignorance and a little stupidity as well. " Again, please evidence which part is ignorant or stupid, not interested in your ego or opinion, but evidence to support that ridiculous argument.

Sure I can drive up to Leeds Ramgahria and have a look, but I could also make wild unsubstantiated claims about singh sabha gurdwara nairobi, and invite you to fly on over and have a look. No pictures? If you were so in shock you couldnt evidence it? And how do you know that the butts had anything to do with the hall? How do you know these werent flicked on by people walking past? And how does the gurdwara control this? Speaking of kennels, you ignorant imbecile, I suggest you make your kennel welcome to all the other fools who share such a low level of intelligence as yourself.

Regarding Sant Jarnail Singh, you are entitled to your opinion but the panth has accepted Sant Jarnail Singh as the Greatest Sikh of the 20th Century and up until now, no panthic jathebandi has challenged that. Are you sure?? I mean really sure? Are you sure that the relatives of those innocents that were in the harminder sahib complex on the day that it was turned into a seige by its own followers with their relatives martyred would agree??? I f you think so, then you are an insult to the sikh religion in my view.

Ok, so a partial evidence based response, and I respect you for that Ksingh, but whilst you say "the panth has accepted Sant Jarnail Singh as the Greatest Sikh of the 20th Century and up until now, no panthic jathebandi has challenged that" - Are you sure????? Moreso than Shaheed udham Singh? Moreso than Shaheed Bhagat singh? How many innocent people's death did they cause?? How many holy gurdwaras di they turn into battlegrounds?? Shall I take it up with the Shiromani prabandhak committee? The one that Jagir Kaur is a member of? The lady that decided that its ok to be religious and kill her own daughter at the same time? Sure, I will give her a call, and get her supreme insight on the path of a righteous sikh.

Please evidence how my comment is a "blanket condemnation" when you are providing no evidence to the contrary??? Where have I made any generalisations about the Gurmat Maryada, Akal Takht or Caste??? I have provided factual discussion for debate, as opposed to your collective idiotic unsubstantiated ramblings.............and anything in my post that you deem idiotic, I can assure you is based as sarcasm based on an equal logic to your twisted ideas of faith for illustration purposes................

Im disgusted by the total hypocrisy shown by the members of this forum, showing without doubt, why the Sikh Community is easily ridiculed and has never had any importance in the world since the Khalsa Raj. First and foremost can even one imbecile on this forum please evidence even 1 example of ANY gurdwara that turns a blind eye to TOBACCO in the gurdwara? Yet many of the posts here refer to tobacco along with all other accusations for pure sensationalism. Further, please provide evidence of which Ramgharia gurdwaras have photos of deities (Vishwakarma) in the gurdwara?? I am not "Ramgharia" just so you know. And in the same breath, I can think of many examples including Slough Singh Sabha and South Birmingham Stratford Road Gurdwara that openly have photos of Bhindrawale with a necklace of bullets and an AK47 referred to as "Sant". So on the one hand you are saying that Ramgharia gurdwaras (not evidenced) have pictured of deities, and on the other, that its ok to have photos of a militant that indirectly resulted in the deaths of hundreds of sangat members, turning a holy place into a battleground, treated like a new "guru" in the gurdwara?? You idiots. Your arguments dont even have any logic. Remember 10 Gurus. Full stop. Not 10 gurus + any militant who walks into harminder sahib. If someone did what he did to Mecca, would the muslim community celebrate that and treat him as the next prophet? Further, in your argument about sitting on floors and not sitting on floors for langar, if you had truly studied and understood the SGGS, you will notice that for langar it is a community kitchen provided by the gurdwara, which requires that everyone be at the same level. Nowhere does it say in the SGGS that it must be eaten whilst sat on the floor. If you know better, please evidence the slok from SGGS. And if you are going by the logic that people sat on the floor in Guru Nanak's time, at that time, langar only consisted of Daal roti, so can we please have some "anti beadbi" marches against ALL gurdwaras that serve chanay, subjee and dhai in the langar? Also, in Guru Gobind Singh Ji's time, people fought with swords. Is Jarnail singh Bhindrawale then not committing beadbi by using an AK47? Also, can we please remove toilet roll from all gurdwara toilets as this did not exist in Guru Nanak's time and this must be beadbi. Please also remove gurdwara central heating systems as these did not exist and we will need anti-beadbi riots like what you imbeciles did in Derby to campaign against this. Also any member of the sangat not wearing khaddar is also committing beadbi as Levi 501s did not exist in Guru Nanak's time.............. And also please quote sections of SGGS which says that a sikh can ONLY marry a sikh?? Again I am not married, but shocked by your collective ignorance. And the majority of you talk about not paying any attention to caste - how many of you describe yourself as "jatt sikh" for the purposes of marriage? How many of you jatts married non jatt sikh partners. And if you ever see a mature sikh - totally clean shaven, I assure you he will be jatt. You hypocritical idiots. And which community are world famous for excessive drinking, predominantly meat diets, lack of educational achievement and a total lack of refinement? Thats right Jatts. So what is this holier than though crap you are spouting here??? And I can tell you with some confidence, that if you go to the universities up and down the country, firstly you will see very few sikhs at all in the best establishments e.g. Oxford and Cambridge, because perfectly illustrated by the level of education and intelligence shown on this forum, our community is not intelligent. Most importantly, you need to understand that sikhism is not a religion run like islam. We do not issue fatwas and blindly follow egomaniacs. And if you want to engage in proper debate, evidence every accusation, and quote where in our religion it says that. Or in absence of that, keep your uneducated mouths shut, as all you serve to do is to show up our community to the world that we are ALL imbeciles.