BritishPakistani

That wasn't the point that was being made genius. Extremists of any type always see through one lens - they have their mind made up and know who is to blame, always. You can guarantee that proactive will ALWAYS blame a Muslim, even when the fault lies with someone else You can guarantee Anjem Choudhary will always blame the government and non-Muslims when the fault lies with someone else. You can guarantee that a conspiracy nut will always blame the illumanati even when the fault lies with someone else Just a few examples of what happens to people when they become brainwashed with an ideology or purpose. In the case of proactive the purpose is to hate Muslims and blame them for everything ;-)

proactive I am not going to address your points one by one as you are simply not worth debating. The hatred is pretty obvious, and you sound just like Anjem Choudhary or Mullah Omar! I will give you a few pointers though and a bit of advice. I may or may not be younger than you, but I know your type. You have a bitter personality. You are an internet warrior, and good on you. I would love to know how you are positively contributing to the society you live in. Bitter people with your personality never make it very far in life. All that hatred probably makes you feel a little better temporarily, but you will soon realise that other people are not causing your hatred, it comes from within you! You must have an inadequate life, because let me tell you something, people with a rich and happy life do not carry that much hate around. Some extremists in my own community get purpose in their life by spreading hate, and you sound just like them. So I would say rather than expecting my community to fix them (which we will regardless of people like you), you should fix yourself. The problem is not other people, it is you. You need someone to attack to feel better about yourself, due to the inadequate life you are living. I'm sure this resonates, and I would urge you to look into it :-) You can only see through one lens which is just like a brainwashed extremist Muslim. All the best.

Thank you for the kind words esingh It has been a good and valuable experience to learn the views of the Sikh community in the UK. I enjoy interacting with people of all backgrounds and faiths, and it is my aim to one day to represent my community through politics or other mainstream means - rather than typing away on internet forums! :-) One thing which you get over the internet, which is not always possible face to face, is honesty. Sometimes that is hatred, but if that is the truth then it needs to be accepted for what it is. Discussion is definitely the way forward, and as I said earlier it would be good to see ties with Sikhs (other asian communities) further improved.

guruvah I partly agree with what you are saying. I'm not going to deny that white girls are generally seen as being "easy" especially because of many of them act and dress. With regards to girls from other asian backgrounds, they are normally only seen like that if they dress a certain way. You might think that this is a perverted way to think, and I would agree, but MOST men in general would think a girl is more promiscuous if she is dressed in a sexy manner. So yes girls like this are also chased, but girls like this from the Pakistani community too. Trust me! I would not agree that Pakistani boys only target girls from other communities as that is not true. A lot of it happens in the community too but you would not know about it. And the same is true with many Sikh boys who I have met, who go for girls both in their own community but also outside. I can't really comment on your cousin sister, as Facebook has a bad reputation for perverts. I know many girls who get dirty messages from men of ALL backgrounds. Maybe she gets them mainly from Pakistanis, but there are other girls who are messaged mainly be white boys that I know. Proactive This is not a blame the victim attitude. I'll give you a little scenario. Imagine a girl is walking in a sexy outfit and the guy rapes her. If I blamed the girl, that would be blame the victim! But imagine another scnerio where this girl in the sexy outfit is walking past and ALSO tells this guy she likes him. This guy is a criminal who goes on a date and he rapes her. Would blame the victim not be relevant here, at least partly? The point I am making, and it is a serious one in my community and I am sure yours too. Many girls find badboys attractive. They like criminals. They like thugs. They are attracted to them. It is the job of the community and parents to educate them to stay away from these criminals and thugs. Because you won't be surprised what these thugs do when these girls fall for them! I hope that clarifies what I meant earlier. Regarding the issues with terrorism and criminality. Please, save it for someone else. There is an issue with extremism, not terrorism. And yes there are issues with criminality which every community faces. Your bias is so evident here - a disproportionate amount of drug dealers and paedophiles, when the statistics would suggest otherwise! But I do not disagree we have issues, but they are specific to this time in this country. Integration problems and lack of education has led to them. Sikhs are better integrated than us generally and also more into their education. However, I dislike the way you phrase your points. There are thousands of Sikh gangsters and drug dealers in Canada, does that mean there is an issue with Sikhs themselves? See what I'm trying to say! The statistics also say that white people are more likely to commit a sexual assault. They also say internet child grooming is almost exclusively white. Do you go tell this to white people in a derogatory manner? We have issues we need to face, and there is a big problem with child grooming specific to our community. But this does not mean we deserve to be attacked left right and center in a derogatory manner by people like you or the media. Now if your concerns were genuine about my community, I would not have even responded like this. A genuine concern that there are issues with a particular community = good. A lot of hatred just because a community has some serious issues = bad. The media are more often in the latter. Regarding the inbred statement, I don't see how that is relevant and it just highlights your hatred. Kaljug Singh Ok so they are identifying them - my issues are not with identifying specific problems, because how else would you solve them right? I have two issues. 1) The derogatory manner in which these issues are highlighted 2) The double standards But have you noticed how the media never refer to internet child grooming as a white thing, or the recent rioters as black and white? Surely there is something within their communities which made them more suseptible to the crimes above? Point is - if the media or you, want to bring race into this, then bring race into each and every area of criminality. Otherwise, let's just leave it as that - an issue of criminality. With your final point, please refer to answer above. There is a serious problem in this country, white girls, asian girls and black girls - being attracted to thugs and criminals, who normally abuse them and then beat them up. That's the point I was making. This is not made up. Go ask teenage girls and many will say they love badboys. Surely more can be done by the parents and society to educate them against these scum and to protect them from them? Surely one way to do this as a parent is to make sure the girls are at home by time? Surely you tell them to stay away from them? Surely you make sure they have enough self-esteem not to fall for this crooks, whether black, white or asian! Gangsters and thugs will always exist! As proactive people what we can do is take measures to best safeguard our women and let the police deal with the criminals.

Thank you for leaving your comments, I must say it has been interesting reading some of them. SinghSabha The examples of the Islam forums. I am not active on any, but I can only put it down to ignorance. Unfortunately most Muslims are against the idea of learning about the faiths of over people (which I am all for). Whereas I would imagine the Sikh community is much more likely to learn about other world religions. Also, let's not forget that the Sikh population is much less than the Muslim population worldwide, so I would imagine this contributes to the ignorance. Therefore coverage is not as much, and it is not discussed as much. Also many Muslims would not regarded as a large or significant religion. I agree the crazy extremists make a lot of noise. They are also very militant. Most Pakistanis just stay quiet, but we do need more people willing to speak up (like the Qulliam Foundation and Maajid Nawaz) Proactive "Muslims only understand the language of violence" - wow, where do you learn to generalise like that? You believe there is a big conspiracy going on which is laughable. There are hundreds of different views and personalities within our community. We do not have some big plan like you would like to believe. Some of us are extremists, most are not. Some are religious, some are not. Some want to integrate fully with whites, some want to separate completely. Some want to integrate whilst preserving culture. Having lived in Bradford, Sheffield, and knowing Manchester well...I can tell you we do not all have one agenda!! I am not a small minority. I am the large majority which you never hear about because we are nowhere to be seen on TV. We are not extremists and we are not criminals. My majority are the ones that are students, business owners, employed ones (working in public and private sector). A good example of my type is Mr Jahan who you must have seen on TV. We just want to live our lives and look after our families. Bet you didn't think we existed? There are close to 1 million British Pakistanis in this country. If most of us were extremists, trust me, this country would have bombs going off every week with a possible civil war scenario!!! If the rest were mainly criminals, we would be the biggest prision population. Black people are half the asian people in the country, but there are twice as many in prison. Pakistanis are not about to take over them any time soon. I am astounded at some of the things you are saying, and would urge you to look at your own views and not just focus on us. And yes, there are issues that need to be addressed within our community, but these issues do not define us as a people or race. They are specific to us in this country at this time. There are countless Sikh gangs in Canada, does that mean Sikhs are criminally minded people? I have no idea where you get your views from. You must have had 1 or 2 bad experiences. But I'm telling you, most of us are causing you and this country no problems. "The Pakistanis have the worst reputation in the UK even worse than the Kalay have. Even though a majority of the rioters were kalay yet you will still hear and read more bad comments from the general society against Pakistanis than kalay." This is one of the issues I have. Yes we have a very bad reputation in the UK and whilst I think we have big issues in our community, we do not deserve to be treated the way we are. As you allude to, we are not the biggest criminals but have a worse reputation that black people. There are a few reasons for this. One, the terrorism and extremist factor. Secondly, the fact we are not "mixing" like people want us to, whilst black people do. Both are issues we need to address, but I would repeat that just because our criminals and extremists speak loud, for a community close to 1 million people, this does not make us all bad as you seem to think by suggesting we are a minority. Hammertime You would rather stand with EDL and organisation that is made up mainly of white supermacists and thugs who attack not just mosques, but temples, than an average British citizen who wants a society where we can all get along with no extremism whether that is Islamic or fascist? Says a lot about you dude. You are obviously not even able to have a civil discussion. Good luck to you. The BNP should be a problem to you because they have openly said targeting Muslims is a tactic, get rid of us first with Hindu and Sikh support, and then go after you. Not that it will ever happen of course. Kaljug Singh I am not here to defend Muslims or the Islamic country around the world. There are very serious issues of course. I am not very religious either so I don't want to get into a religious debate. But to the issue of my community in the UK, there are some serious issues. But there is trash in every community. You phrase it as though we are the only ones who have problems. The BNP and EDL have their own agenda and they are supported by people who have serious issues themselves. One of the answers to the problems currently in our community is education. I can guarantee you that there will be less problems with our next generation. Another issue is that up here in the North and West Midlands, Mirpuri communities have not integrated as well as they should have. This has led to issues of criminality and extremism. They took the wrong approach, but I'm happy to see that their sons and daughters are learning from those mistakes. Being from a Punjabi background myself I have picked up on these factors. But I would repeat, that the vast majority of us are not causing you are anyone else problems. I hope you can see that!

Kaljug Singh Of course there is an extremist element within the Islamic and Pakistani community, and I would never deny that. The Anjem Choudhary lot are a minority, I can assure you. I am anti-extremist just like you are, and dislike those who openly want to convert everyone in an aggressive manner. These people are a minority. The vast majority of us just want to live peacefully and look after our families, just like the vast majority of the Sikh community. SinghSabha I am against the implementation of Sharia law in this country, but at the same time I am fierce in my pursuit to ensure my community and the asian community at large are not discriminated against by the media or others. Also, I believe everyone should be able to live their way of life within the laws. An example of media bias: I hate it how they have not even mentioned that blacks (mainly) and whites were behind riots, but are quick to mention child groomers as Pakistani when they happen to be of that ethnicity. I am 22, still young, and my aim is to join a group like the Qulliam foundation if you have heard of them. I am anti-extremist, whether that is the EDL or Islam4UK (and similar groups) Everyone has to firstly differentiate between Pakistani gangsters (they are unislamic, the ones who sell drugs, drink, chase girls) and Islamic extremists (want to convert Sikh girls, implement Sharia) The EDL and BNP would want you to think they are the one and same thing. Dare I say, some people on this forum are trying to do the same! Gangsters trying to implement sharia do not exist - the two groups actually despise each other deep down. Even though these gangsters may preach to you, they are being hypocrites! But I do agree we can do more, and every other community can do more to root out extremism from their people. Hammertime you may have had one or two bad experiences, but I'm not sure why you paint everyone with the same brush mate.

Thank you for the warm welcome. I agree completely. Unfortunately although the extremists may be small in number they normally shout the loudest. There are also those who want our communities to hate each other as it serves some of their own motives, both other Asian people, but also many white people (members of the EDL and BNP in particular).

This is disturbing. However it has nothing to with race or religion. - Some parts of the media like the EDL are on a mission to equate these crimes solely with Pakistanis/Asians. Don't the double standards make you laugh. Blacks and whites were responsible for the recent riots and this has not been mentioned once. The current saying goes: It's not a problem when blacks or whites do something, it's a problem when asians do it because we have to look at the roots of it. The vast majority of paedophiles population wise are whites. Should we look deeper into their community? The vast majority of sexual crimes are committed by whites. Jack Straw's own brother was found guilty of sexually assaulting his friends daughter. You see my point? - This has nothing to do with religion like the BNP and EDL make you think. These are just desperate men who I can guarantee you are not religious and do not pray. It doesn't have anything to do with race either, as proportion wise blacks are the biggest criminals in this country followed by whites. Why is no one looking into them? - Do you really think that no other community engages in this sort of stuff? From prostitution, to paedophiles, to trafficking - it goes on in the whole world, and trust me, white people do not have a good record. I'm only singling out white people to show how pathetic it is to constantly label like asians are. - Please also be aware of the full story. I would never defend these thugs, but you have to be aware of the context. I like in Keighley, a place where there has been much coverage of this child grooming. Pakistanis are to blame they say, but what about the white girls themselves? I've interacted with these sorts of girls many times and they love pakis. They love the badboy image. They love the thug. Surely this is a failure of the community and their parenting? Yes these ugly men take advantage, but why are some of these girls craving for them and their attention? Why do their parents let the roam around at night time? The facts are when people are vulnerable, the sick will take advantage. This is just as true for bullying as it is for something like this. These girls only go tell the police when something goes wrong or they wake up all of a sudden. They are content with being used up until that point. I know I wouldn't let my sisters roam around at night, so why do these parents? And, these desperate many do target Pakistani girls too, trust me. Those girls never tell their parents, let alone the police. However the numbers are few. Because when you mess with an asian girl you face consequences in some cases death. So these gangs avoid it, though they would if they could. Which leads to my next point - alot of the white people just complain around these areas, when they should be better protecting their girls and they should be fighting with fists when one of their girls is abused. They stay quiet, and they are normally scared of Pakistanis around here. Hence whey these perverts take advantage. You get bad people in all society. My motto is don't let them take advantage. Some of these white people need to look at themselves and change their ways if they want better protection, because sadly, perverts will always exist. Unfortunately, even in my own community.

Hi everyone I thought I would give my thoughts on this and a few other topics, as I was browsing this forum last night and reading some comments. I was browsing this forum precisely because of learning that Sikh brothers in London had protected a Mosque during prayers. One extremely negative individual you have on here is Hammertime No it has not made Sikhs look like mugs or weak, and I am not laughing (well technically I am right now at your comments). He is obviously a little paranoid, and I'm willing to bet he is a big fan of the EDL and thinks that there's some huge conspiracy going on to get more Sikh girls. I'm sure most of you will recognise this is just a confused individual. I would like him to back up what he has said with facts as I found it extremely offensive. In the Muslim/Pakistani we are extremely grateful for what Sikhs did and there is no ridiculous conspiracy. I would invite you all to look at the many Facebook pages that have been created, and have REAL comments from REAL individuals. I myself created a page talking of Muslim/Sikh unity and it has had more than a 1,000 likes. But check this one out: http://www.facebook....177949708940424 9/10 Likes and comments on that page are from Muslims. Please take a moment to read the comments and realise how much the gesture was appreciated in our community. The one good thing that has come out of these riots is that it has strengthened our communities. I sincerely hope this will continue, and whilst you get a few extremists on both sides the vast majority of our people want to live in peace because we realise that our commonalities outnumber our differences, we are stronger together. I'm more than happy to answer any questions anyone may have. Just wanted to post in here as I read some of the comments and found them a little disturbing. Thanks for reading.