hinduveer

I never came here hating on any1, and as u can see from my posts i gave respect to my sikh dharmic brs. i haveen shocked by the Hate many sikhs here hav for hindus, which is wrong and unjustified. hwvr people like jassa, warrior gunman hsdh hav been great. peace

Inqlabi my friend if you read my post carefully you will see muslims hav no reason to celebrate lohri. ps its a hindu punjabi festival mainly

Big Tera said- If people want to go astray let them., We dont need them. who cares if such people exist. I disagree, if people are going astray they need to be helped and I commend the Sikh Unit for having the guts to have at least TRIED

Inqlabi LOHRI is a HINDU festival, u have only wirtten half the story behind it, I will finish it off.. YOU said : . We celebrate Lohri to remember Dulla Bhatti (Muslim) who used to protect girls from muguls - HERE ARE THE FACTS: Dullah Bhatti was from a large RAJPUT tribe, full of Hindus and Muslims (consisting of Bhattis and other rajputs). Dullah Bhatti led an army of Hindus and muslims to rescue Hindu girls that had been kidnaped by Mughals from HISt tribe and were going to be raped and forcefully converted to Islam by Mughals. To save the honour of his tribe, Dullah Bhatti raised an army of Hindus and Muslims to rescue these young HINDU girls, as he valued what was right over wrong, and the izzat of his tribe. When he rescued them, he oversaw thier marriages to HINDU men,of the same tribe, and when these women had their first son, they put a red tilak on them, as a mark of being a HINDU, and a rajput warrior who would help defend the tribe, and had a huge celebration where they distributed rodhia, almonds and made saag with makhi di rotti etc and sang tributes to Dullah Bhatti, SO in essence it has NOTHING whatsoever to do with todays sikhs.

Apology accepted. In truth Humgareeb what the hell are we all doing labelling ourselves? at the end of the day we are all going to do die and to god we are all the same! All this im better than you nonsense is BS, live and let live!

Hazoor penji, good points which are fairly made. I just cant believe what that girl Preeti and others like her have written, its like they have no self respect, they are like or worse than wild goriya. The girl has even posted a picture of herself on the sikh unit site, depsite admitting to such disgusting vile sexual acts to Pakistani men, if these accounts are true then things are a lot worse than I thought, this NEW generation of British Sikhs/Indians are much worse than my generation! ps : I have never seen Sikh / Hindu guys using religion as an excuse to USE/Abuse Muslim girls

Just read the accounts of the girls in the links, this makes me angry and sad, I cant believe the stupid BESHARAM attitude of todays Indian Kuriya, how can that girl Preeti and other sikh girls talk so openly about such sexual acts on Pakistani men?? This is DISGUSTING!!! How can girls have gotten so low? are these accounts 100 per cent true?

If your going to do a thread about it, at least spell the word right its spelt Sanatan or Sanaatan! Sanatan Dharma means the eternal/spiritual truth/path. This has been around from the begining of time. The spirits reunification of with the eternal supreme power - known as Brahma Vsihnu Mahesh translated as the Generator Organsier Destroyer - GOD I have nothing against Sanatan Sikhs or Sikhs like YOU. Whether Sikhs see themsevles as santan sikhs or just sikhs is neither here nor there, just love god and concerntrate on being a spiritual person Just to be clear: A HINDU is someone who follows the teachings of the VEDAS, UPANISHADS, AND BHAGVAD GITA, so NO Sikhs are not HIndus, I dont care whether they follow our festivals of LOHRI, RAKHRI, DIWALI or HOLI, unless they follow the great teachings of our Sacred texts - they are NOT HINDU!

Kluivert, I agree with you when you say : But seems to me, there is not much difference between the Sikh faith and many other main stream religions. There is so much hatred for other faiths being posted on this forum, especially Hindus and the paranoia built up relating to this. --------------------------- I honestly feel that there are trolls on this site dead set on creating tensions between Hindus and Sikhs, MANY Sikhs on here need to ask yourselves 1 question ; DO you want Hindus who have no ill feeling towards to you, AND ACTUALLY ARE SYMPATHETIC TO YOU,and YOUR fight for justice ( like me) to start hating on you? If yes then carry on talking rubbish about the Hindu faith as 99 per cent of you have zero knoweldge about the 1st and greatest spiritual path Hindu Sanatan dharma, and just regurugitate bile that has been written by haters anyway! PS : Not one incident of the recent beadbi you keep harping on about has been proved to be done by HINDUS, So STOP with yoru Conspiracy theories - INNOCENT until proven guilty! When the SGGS was thrown in the well, many on here and in Sikh media, balmed Hindus, but when it came out that it was a SIKH, not a single admisson of your mistake or lesson learned for the future!

Sad and disrespectful to burn a holy book, no matter from what religion, (except Islam in my view, as I dont perceive the koran as Holy). PS who is 'they' singh 559, I hope your not inferring Hindus, as the last time the SGGS was burnt or thrown in the well, there were threads on here blaming Hindus and RSS when infact it turned out to be a Sikh. the disrespect that happens is usually by a drunk, a criminal or someone that is depressed or has HIS/HER own problem with god, not by a gorup targetting Sikhs, ( im talking about todays India)

RIDICILOUS, Punjabi girls told to act like gangsters/ black girls ! then again thats what the so called punjabi singers, especially the ones from the UK / Canada/USA do ( ACT BLACK ) ! Come to think of it the singers/dancers ( MEN & WOMEN) from the west are even worse! the singers and video makers in India, just try to emulate what they think the people on the west will like, when in reality they should promote their OWN culture in videos as its richer and far more DECENT

Ridicilous thread, with mostly one sided views by poeple who who have absolutley ZERO knowledge about HNDU dharma! Lets get one thing straight, The word Hindu, was around 100's of years before Islam ,and the word was first used to describe the SAGES/Saintly people who lived between the Himalayas and Indus river. Yes Persians referred to Hindus as theives, when they entered India, later on, IRONIC when infact it was Persians themselves who were trying to thief HINDU land! Go figure??? Hindus lived in Peace with Buddists, thats why the empire of Asoka flourished. DOGRA ji's posts is great, and highlights how the greatest minds fo our time, complimented the Bhagvad Gita, not Bible or Korna or any other holy book : The Bhagavad-Gita is the most systematic statement of spiritual evolution of endowing value to mankind. It is one of the most clear and comprehensive summaries of perennial philosophy ever revealed; hence its enduring value is subject not only to India but to all of humanity." — Aldous Huxley tags: bhagavad-gita, hinduism, spiritual 3 people liked it add this quote to my profile "In the morning I bathe my intellect in the stupendous and cosmogonal philosophy of the Bhagavad-Gita, in comparison with which our modern world and its literature seems puny and trivial." — Henry David Thoreau tags: bhagavad-gita, hinduism, spiritual 3 people liked it add this quote to my profile "In order to approach a creation as sublime as the Bhagavad-Gita with full understanding it is necessary to attune our soul to it." — Rudolf Steiner tags: bhagavad-gita, hinduism, spiritual 2 people liked it add this quote to my profile When I read the Bhagavad Gita and reflect about how God created this universe everything else seems so superfluous. -- Albert Einstein (One of the most influential scientists of all time) Dr. Albert Schweitzer Sayings on Bhagavad Gita The Bhagavad Gita has a profound influence on the spirit of mankind by its devotion to God which is manifested by actions. -- Dr. Albert Schweitzer [Famous Alsatian German-French theologian, philosopher, physician, and musician.] Carl Jung Quotation on Bhagavad-Gita The idea that man is like unto an inverted tree seems to have been current in by gone ages. The link with Vedic conceptions is provided by Plato in his Timaeus in which it states behold we are not an earthly but a heavenly plant. This correlation can be discerned by what Krishna expresses in chapter 15 of Bhagavad-Gita. -- Carl Gustav Jung ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Hindu religion is naturally pluralistic. A well-known Rig Vedic hymn says that "Truth is One, though the sages know it variously." (Ékam sat vipra bahudā vadanti).[11] Similarly, in the Bhagavad Gītā (4:11), God, manifesting as an incarnation, states that "As people approach me, so I receive them. All paths lead to me" (ye yathā māṃ prapadyante tāṃs tathāiva bhajāmyaham mama vartmānuvartante manuṣyāḥ pārtha sarvaśaḥ).[12] YES SIR!

Excellent post dal singh, would be nice if u post more extracts. What a waste of lives these wars were

In reality the corrupt leadership in India couldnt care less about the persecution and dwindling numbers of hindus and sikhs in Pakistan, or the abduction of 2 to 3 sikh hindu girls a week. They only care about their seats, money and power. Im glad Anna Hazare EMBARASSED them.

Good post genie veer, except I think majority hindu leadership are just as daft as the sikh one. They are corrupt, lazy and cant see the problems in the future, and just care about MONEY.

Inqalabi if you re read my post, I didnt say khatri aroras are warriors, i said they are business people. I said sehdevs, dhunna, kanda, verma, karwal, shin are from sunyar rajput, warrior caste. Anyway lets not discuss caste anymore, as it makes it look like we are promoting it. I was just answering your question and i hope u meet a khatri arora, that u get along with, they ALL cant be bad.

A fellow member of this forum, very nicely asked me a question on another thread about a hindu Punjabi surname and caste, which has led to me question that maybe many of my Sikh brothers and sisters are not aware of what Hindu Punjabis and their caste, backgrounds or even way of life are. So I will attempt to write as much information as possible here now (15 minutes break time, and update it periodically.) Disclaimer If your not interested, fine, just try not be offensive. (Ps I have used wikipedia in some parts) Punjabi Hindus ( the original Punjabis, lol) are a group of people that follow the Hindu religion and have roots in ancient Punjab region. Today they are spread out across most parts of northern India, (mainly Punjab and Haryana) and in some parts of western India like Mumbai, Maharashtra. In India, most Punjabi Hindus are concentrated in the states of Punjab and Haryana and the national capital territory of Delhi. There has also been a continuous migration of Punjabi Hindus to major world countries like the USA, Canada and the UK. The oldest Hindu texts such as the Vedas, Upanishads and the Mahabharata were composed in Punjab or in a nearby region. The Hindus of Punjab have, naturally, been there for much more time than Muslims since Islam was founded only in the 7th century C.E., entering India around the 11th century C.E, while Hinduism has been around since at least the 2nd millennium B.C.E.. Many Hindu Punjabis later converted to Sikhism. In fact, Punjabi Hindus can trace their roots from the time of the Vedas. Many modern day cities in Indian Punjab and Pakistan Punjab are still named from that period like Lahore etc. Former Prime ministers of India I.K. Gujral and Gulzari Lal Nanda are Punjabi Hindus. Former Indian cricketer Kapil Dev and great Indian scientist Hargobind Khorana are also Punjabi Hindus. They are mostly employed in trade and commerce though some also work as farmers in the Indian states of Punjab and Haryana. The most common castes are Khatri (Kshatriya in Sanskrit), Arora, Brahman, Baniya, and Rajput Punjabi Hindus go to Hindu temples for worship,and many visit gurdwaras too. 1. HINDU - Brahmins - (everyones favourite), The Brahmins of the Punjab region are chiefly Saraswat Brahmins. They have a special association with the Punjab since they take their name from the river, Saraswati A subgroup of Punjabi Brahmins whose surnames are Jaitly, Trikha, Kumaria, Jinghan, Rampal and Mohla. In the changed socio-economic circumstances however, the rigidity of having matrimonial alliances within particular groups amongst Barahis, Bawanjais, Athwans and Mohyals has greatly diminished, and they generally intermarry nowadays. Surnames of Punjabi Saraswats- Brahmins - Issar, Markandey (or Markande), Kumaria, trikha, jaitley, mohla, jhingan, shorey,punj, Rampal,Modgil,kapil,kaushal,kanav, lakhanpal, tejpal, sehajpal,Bhardwaj,Attri, Devgan,Bhaskar, Mannan,Biala,Agnihotri, Dwivedi,Davesar,Prabhakar, etc. Like Moyal Brahmins, Modgil Brahmins donot follow karm kanda, they are mainly agriculturist brahmans ,tracing their ancestry from Raj rishi mugalcharya. 　 2. HINDU - Sunyar - Mair Rajputs (Warrior Kings) A majority of the Hindu Punajbis are from the Sunyar (goldsmith) sub caste and are Mair Rajput. They are one of the highest castes in Hinduism as they are RAJPUT, and are respected as Warrior Kings. Dhunna, Shin, Bagga, Verma, Karwal, Kanda are all - Sunyars ( Goldsmith - sub caste) - Mair Rajputs ( Caste) These peiople were described as among the tallest, fairest and well built in the whole of punjab by Ibbetson in his book the tribes and castes of the North western frontier ( 1855), the only difference between them and the Jat Sikhs as Ibbettson put it, was the fact that the Raputs were a little fairer and didnt have the hooked nose that many Jats do. Ps the reason I say sub caste Sunyar is becasue over time when they lost there kingdoms, or when the need to fight was over these warrior kings ( Rajputs) used the gold they had for busienss and became known as Gold traders - Sunyars. The Sunyar - Mair rajputs are spread out all over Punjab mainly in Jallandhar, Ludhiana, Patiala, Hoshiarpur, Jagrama, Nawanshahr, Amristsar The majority of Hindu Punjabis in the UK, are from this caste or Brahmin caste. 3. HINDU Khatris/ Aroras ( Businessman) - whether they be Hindu or Sikh are a VERY tight knit community, and inter marry freely, and do have sense of aloofness about them, they are an extremely successful business orientated caste, adn this can often lead them to be perceived as arrogant. All 10 Sikh gurus hail from their caste.They are mainly based in Delhi. 4. HINDU Jats ( farmers) - first thing you will hear a hindu Jat say is ; We're HARD, just joking, lol. These are a group of Hindu Punjabis, living in mainly Punjab and Haryana regions of India, and are infact the majority caste in the state of Haryana, which formerly was part of the punjab. These people are among the tallest, and most well built in india, as described by Ibbettson, and are very similiar to the Hindu rajput punjabis in appearance, with the exception of a hooked or kink in the nose. There are more hindu Jats than Sikh Jats however the characteristics of both are very similiar. In my experience I find them to big hearted, jolly, good natured, good humoured people much like the rajputs, except we are better looking, more intelligent, just kidding. Hindu Jat surnames include Dhillon, Sidhu, Powar, Dev, Brar To be continued……..

Wikipedia : Pakistan's estimated population was 172,800,000 in July 2008,[1] 96% Muslim, with Christians (1.6%) and Hindus (1.85%) making up the largest minority faiths, according to the last census taken in 1998.[2] Sikhs, Zoroastrians, Buddhists, Ahmadi Muslims and some adherents to animist religions make up the remainder. ----------- Nice to see how the Hindu/sikh population in Pakistan has dwindled in the last 64 years, whereas the Muslim population has increased IN INDIA from 12% to 18 % , est 180,000,000.00, more muslims in India than Pakistan. In Pakistan we finally get a Sikh memeber of the traffic police after 64 years, BUT the Stupid politicians in India, make muslims superstars of Bollywood. The greedy corrupt politicians in India are only good at punishing Hindus and Sikhs ie Punjab, Assam, Gujrat, etc, and pandering to Muslims, whilst pocketing money for themsleves. No wonder the Assamese Hindus want their own Hindu country, The Sikhs and (many Hindu Punjabis TODAY) want their own independant Punjab, Tamil Hindus want an independant Tamil nadu, Gujrati Hindus talking about an independant Gujrat. Congress, BJP should all be scrapped.

SIKH IN PAKISTAN - After the creation of Pakistan <>Panja Sahib Gurdwara in Hasan AbdalNationwide, there are no reliable numerical figures for Sikhs in the country. Estimates vary, the US Department of State estimates 20,000. The largest Sikh population in Pakistan is found in <A title=Peshawar, /Khyber_Pakhtunkhwa">Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa, which was spared the scale of violence during partition that raged in Punjab. There are small pockets of Sikhs in Lahore and Nankana Sahib in Punjab. The (West) Punjab andSindh provinces of Pakistan were mostly emptied of their Sikh and Hindu population in the communal massacres of partition, with nearly all fleeing for India. There has been an influx in the population of Sikhs in Pakistan due to the turbulent civil war and conflicts that have ravaged neighboring Afghanistan, like Pakistan, has had a very small Sikh and Hindu population. There has been a massive exodus of refugees from Afghanistan into Pakistan during the past 30 years of turmoil up to the reign of the <A ="War in Afghanistan (2001–present)"US invasion of Afghanistan in late 2001. Due to Pakistan's porous borders with Afghanistan, large numbers of Afghanistan's minority communities, based mainly around the cities Kabul, Kandahar >Kandahar, andJalalabad have fled, and some Sikhs have joined their kinsmen in Peshawar and Lahore. The Sikh community in Pakistan in modern times .Until today, Sikhs have mainly kept a low profile within the monolithic population of Pakistan. Though, Pakistan maintains the title of Islamic state, the articles twenty, twenty-one and twenty-two in chapter two of its constitution guarantees religious freedom to the non-Muslim residents.<A href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikhism_in_Pakistan#cite_note-6">[7] Since indepdence in 1947, relations between Pakistan's minorities and the Muslim majority have remained fairly and politically stable. Until 2002, Pakistan held a system of separate electorates for all its national legislative assemblies, with only a handful of parliamentary seats reserved for minority members. Minorities were legally only permitted to vote for designated minority candidates in general elections. The regime of former President General Pervez Musharraf had professed an agenda of equality for minorities and promotion and protection of minority rights, however, the implementation of corrective measures has been slow. The historical and holy sites of Sikhs are maintained by a Pakistani governmental body, the Pakistan Sikh Gurdwara Prabandhak Committee, which is responsible for their upkeep and preservation. Nonetheless, many Sikh shrines have fallen into disrepair since 1947,[8] as the remaining Sikh population and its corresponding manpower, economic power and political influence is minuscule compared to that of the pre-1947 community. ------------ However, before Partition : Prior to the Partition of India in 1947, which divided British India into its successor states of Pakistan and India, Sikhs were spread all across the region of Punjab and played an important role in its economy as farmers, businessmen, and traders. Lahore, the capital of (now in Pakistan) Punjab was then and still is today the location of many important religious and historical sites for Sikhs, including the Samadhi of Ranjit Singh. The nearby town of Nankana Sahib has nine gurdwaras, and is the birthplace of Sikhism's founder, Guru Nanak Dev. Each of Nankana Sahib's gurdwaras are associated with different events in Guru Nanak Dev's life. The town remains an important site of pilgrimage for Sikhs worldwide ------------------------------------------

Here is some information from wikipedia. Hinduism and PartitionSee also: Partition of IndiaWhen Pakistan was formed in August 1947, over 7 million Hindus and Sikhs from what was East Pakistan (now Bangladesh) and Pakistan's Punjab, Sindh and Khyber-Pakhtunkhwas were forced to leave this new state for India, and a similar number of Muslims chose the other way. The reasons for this incredible exodus was the heavily charged communal atmosphere in British India, deep distrust of each other, the brutality of violent mobs and the antagonism between the religious communities. The fact that over 1 million people lost their lives in the bloody violence of 1947, should attest to the fear and hate that filled the hearts of millions of Muslims, Hindus and Sikhs who had to leave ancestral homes during hastily arranged partition. Many Hindus who attained great success in the public eye in India, like the filmstars Dev Anand, Raj Kapoor, and Sunil Dutt trace their birthplaces and ancestral homes to the towns of Pakistan. Independent India's first Test cricket captain, Lala Amarnath hailed from Lahore, prime ministers I K Gujral and Manmohan Singh are also from the part of the Punjab which became part of Pakistan, and former deputy prime minister Lal Krishna Advani was born in Karachi. Nearly all of these individuals left their homes due to the violence and turmoil of independence. For more information about Hindus in East Pakistan - Bangladesh, see Hinduism in Bangladesh. Post-1970s Since Pakistan declared itself an Islamic nation and pursued a decidedly Islamic course in its political and social life since the 1980s, Hindus as a minority in Pakistan have had considerably fewer privileges, rights and protections in comparison to minorities in India, which constitutionally avows itself secular and giving of equal rights to its religious minorities including the Muslim, Christian and Sikh communities. Cultural marginalization, discrimination, economic hardships and religious persecution have resulted in many Hindus converting to other religions (Islam, Christianity), and today Hindus constitute barely 1.8% of Pakistan's population. Because Hindus are not "People of the Book" like Christians, they have generally been given fewer rights informally (de facto) by the Muslim majority than the country's Christians (see Dhimmi), even if de jure Hindus have equal rights under the law. Religious, social and political institutions The Indus river is a holy river to many Hindus, and the Pakistan government periodically allows small groups of Hindus from Pakistan and India to make pilgrimage, though most Hindus are forced to do this along the banks of the river that flows through a small part of Indian-controlled Kashmir. The communal violence of the 1940s and the subsequent persecutions have resulted in the destruction of thousands of Hindu temples in Pakistan, although the Hindu community and the Pakistani government have preserved and protected many prominent ones. The Hindu Gymkhana in Karachi has tried to promote social development for Hindus in the city. One of the few temples remaining in Karachi today is the Shri Swaminarayan Mandir, Karachi. Hindus are allotted separate electorates to vote by, but their political importance is virtually nil[citation needed]. The Pakistan Hindu Panchayat and the Pakistani Hindu Welfare Association are the primary civic organizations that represent and organise Hindu communities on social, economic, religious and political issues. There are minority commissions and for a while, a Ministry of Minority Affairs in the Government of Pakistan looked after specific issues concerning Pakistani religious minorities. Community life The intense religious conservatism and politically charged environment in Pakistani Punjab offers limited freedoms for Hindus. Outside such an environment, Karachi's city culture allows for a secular environment that gives much needed opportunities to minorities like Hindus. Though Islamisation, cultural and political has swept the country since the 1980s, the secular institutions established in British times allow Hindus to take advantage of education, sports, cultural activities, government services and participate in mainstream Pakistani life. Prominent Pakistani Hindus include Karachi's Danish Kaneria, who has become Pakistan's premier leg spin bowler in cricket, fashion designer Deepak Perwani, and Justice Rana Bhagwandas, former Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of Pakistan. Persecution Main articles: Persecution of Hindus#Pakistan and Anti-Hindu#PakistanThe increasing Islamisation of Pakistan and antagonism against India, a nation with a Hindu majority, has been an influential factor in the persecution of religious minorities, among those minorities, Hindus. Such Islamisation include the blasphemy laws, which make it dangerous for religious minorities to express themselves freely and engage freely in religious and cultural activities. The promulgation of Sharia, Quranic law has also increased the marginalisation of Hindus and other minorities. Following the Babri Mosque riots in India, riots and attacks on Hindus in retaliation has only increased; Hindus in Pakistan are routinely affected by communal incidents in India and violent developments on the Kashmir conflict between the two nations. It remains the hope of many that a permanent peace between the two nations will go a long way in making life better for the roughly 3 million Hindus living in Pakistan. The 1998 census recorded 2,443,614 Hindus in Pakistan.[7] Hindu minorities, under Taliban rule in Swat, were forced to wear Red headgear such as turbans as a symbol of dhimmi.[8] In July 2010, around 60 members of the minority Hindus in Karachi were attacked and ethnically cleansed following an incident when a Hindu youth drank from a water tap near an Islamic mosque[9][10] [edit] Pakistan Studies curriculum issues Main article: Pakistan Studies curriculumAccording to the Sustainable Development Policy Institute report 'Associated with the insistence on the Ideology of Pakistan has been an essential component of hate against India and the Hindus. For the upholders of the Ideology of Pakistan, the existence of Pakistan is defined only in relation to Hindus, and hence the Hindus have to be painted as negatively as possible'[11] A 2005 report by the National Commission for Justice and Peace a non profit organization in Pakistan, found that Pakistan Studies textbooks in Pakistan have been used to articulate the hatred that Pakistani policy-makers have attempted to inculcate towards the Hindus. 'Vituperative animosities legitimise military and autocratic rule, nurturing a siege mentality. Pakistan Studies textbooks are an active site to represent India as a hostile neighbour' the report stated. 'The story of Pakistan’s past is intentionally written to be distinct from, and often in direct contrast with, interpretations of history found in India. From the government-issued textbooks, students are taught that Hindus are backward and superstitious.' Further the report stated 'Textbooks reflect intentional obfuscation. Today’s students, citizens of Pakistan and its future leaders are the victims of these partial truths'.[12][13][14][15] An editorial in Pakistan's oldest newspaper Dawn commenting on a report in The Guardian on Pakistani Textbooks noted 'By propagating concepts such as jihad, the inferiority of non-Muslims, India’s ingrained enmity with Pakistan, etc., the textbook board publications used by all government schools promote a mindset that is bigoted and obscurantist. Since there are more children studying in these schools than in madrassahs the damage done is greater. '[16][17] According to the historian Professor Mubarak Ali, textbook reform in Pakistan began with the introduction of Pakistan Studies and Islamic studies by Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto in 1971 into the national curriculum as compulsory subject. Former military dictator Gen Zia-ul-Haq under a general drive towards Islamization, started the process of historical revisionism in earnest and exploited this initiative. 'The Pakistani establishment taught their children right from the beginning that this state was built on the basis of religion – that's why they don't have tolerance for other religions and want to wipe-out all of them.'[17][18] According to Pervez Hoodbhoy, a physics professor at Quaid-i-Azam University in Islamabad, the "Islamizing" of Pakistan's schools began in 1976 when an act of parliament required all government and private schools (except those teaching the British O-levels from Grade 9) to follow a curriculum that includes learning outcomes for the federally approved Grade 5 social studies class such as: 'Acknowledge and identify forces that may be working against Pakistan,' 'Make speeches on Jihad,' 'Collect pictures of policemen, soldiers, and national guards,' and 'India's evil designs against Pakistan.'[19]

Inqlabi, I have knowledge in this area and will answer your question thus : 1. Sunyar - Mair Rajputs Sehdev (meaning Sher) are Hindu Punjabis from the Sunyar ( goldsmith) sub caste and are Mair Rajput. They are one of the highest castes in Hinduism as they are RAJPUT, and are respected as Warrior Kings. Dhunna, Shin, Bagga, Verma, Karwal, Kanda are all - Sunyars ( Goldsmith - sub caste) - Mair Rajputs ( Caste) These peiople were described as among the tallest, fairest and well built in the whole of punjab by Ibbetson in his book the tribes and castes of the North western frontier ( 1855), the only difference between them and the Jat Sikhs as Ibbettson put it, was the fact that the Raputs were a little fairer and didnt have the hooked nose that many Jats do. Ps the reason I say sub caste Sunyar is becasue over time when they lost there kingdoms, or when the need to fight was over these warrior kings ( Rajputs) used the gold they had for busienss and became known as Gold traders - Sunyars. The Sunyar - Mair rajputs are spread out all over Punjab mainly in Jallandhar, Ludhiana, Patiala, Hoshiarpur, Jagrama, Nawanshahr, Amristsar The majority of Hindu Punjabis in the UK, are from this caste or Brahmin caste. 2. The Khatris/ Aroras whether they be Hindu or Sikh are a VERY tight knit community, and inter marry freely, and do have sense of aloofness/big headedness about them, because they always brag about the sikh gurus being from their caste and the fact that they are very business minded and have a lot of money. They are mainly in Delhi.

Musicman I ignore foolish comments from peeps like khalasthan86, the majority of people here are good. Im not trying to make relations, my relations with most people of all walks of life are good. I asked a pertinent question, and MY VIEW IS MOST OF THE HINDUS/SIKHS that got left behind in Pakistan ( whether they are 10 million or 20!), have been FORCEFULLY converted,as hindus and sikhs are not allowed to have jobs in the civil service and are HEAVILY discriminated against to this day. It was a big deal when they had a sikh traffic warden, or inspector at the lowest level for the first time a couple of years ago, the ones who havent converted are stuck in low level jobs and live in poverty. 2-3 hindu - sikh girls are converted/abducted / raped a week! ( see another thread!) Every hindu/sikh i have spoken to who lived in pakistan tells horror stories of how bad it was APOLOGIES, I still havent had a chance to give detailed post re this thread, too busy at work!

No disrespect Mods, but thsi quality control thing is adversely affecting the flow of conversation for me on this and many threads.